Is it a problem?

Tipperary Fairy

My boyfriends drinking, or more so his habits and attitudes, concerns me. It's been a recurring issue over the past while. I just want to know what other people think as he is convinced there's no problem and i'm uncomfortable with it.

I'm not saying he's an alcoholic. I just think that he should treat it more as a treat, and pay more attention to the fact that it's a drug.

He has accepted that he drinks excessively, as in over the recommended maximum units by drink aware and such, but I think most weeks he's still drinking as much. I've tried to explain my issues with his drinking but he keeps saying  that he can not drink if he wants, he just does want to. He's a fan of craft beers and so I know he genuinely does like them.

He said once that he'd go a month without a drink to prove to me that he could. He had at least four drinks in that month.

He's lied to me about drinking as in I had asked in passing had he had a beer, and he said no, I later happened to see beer bottles back at his.

He doesn't seem to have self control when it comes to many things. As in he won't buy chocolate or nuts for himself as he knows he'll eat the entire thing. Well it's a bit of a contradiction really, he has the self control not to buy them, but not to not eat them all. When i've been around him, I don't think I've ever seen him have just one drink. The majority of the time it wouldn't be just two either. If he gets beers in, like a six pack, he'd open one and continue to drink until he goes to bed. There doesn't seem to be any point where he goes oh that's enough.

He's never had anything other than an alcoholic drink when we've been out for dinner. And often not just one.

On holidays in a country where alcohol is cheap, he'll have a beer with breakfast. Although he might argue that it's because he's on holidays.

He won't get a half pint if there's a choice of a pint. He won't waste his money on low alcohol beer.

He'd never open a bottle of wine and only have one glass.

He was on antibiotics for a gum infection and when it came to drinking he looked up whether you should avoid alcohol or not, it suggests you do but he said he would have some anyway. Instead of just going the few days without.

When we head out for a day, and want to head somewhere for a sit down, it's always a pub and he'll always get an alcoholic drink.

If we are out and head home not too late, he'll have more to drink when we get home.

He does things like ask what I feel like doing for the evening and if I say staying in, he'll go get drinks. Like he's sussing out whether or not he needs to be sure to have gotten something in if we're not going to head out.

His family are similar. If we visit they're constantly asking will we have a wine cider beer etc. Often it'd be like 2pm on a Sunday or that, and we'd just be after having a late breakfast  and I'd always say no. He's only ever said no once. They seem to drink quite a bit. It's volume rather than percentage. And it's not even beer he likes.

His mother drank very heavily when he was young, and he says that if anyone would recognise when something is a problem, he would.

Like i said, he's a fan of craft beers, but if we're in a place he'll drink whatevers there, even if he kinda doesn't like it, and continue to.

Since we've been in Australia, I don't think there's been more than one day in a week that he hasn't had something to drink.

He seems to drink even more when we're around people. We were sitting with some people in the hostel, having some drinks and, while I'm a bit of a slow drinker, in the time I had finished one can, he'd had three.

Like last night, he sat out on the porch with his laptop while I was gone to bed, but had 5 beers in that time.

It's just constant. It's a constant thing in his life.

It's not downing vodka to get him through the day, but I still can't help but see a concerning attitude to alcohol. I don't want to have a problem with this if it's not a problem. I just get the sense that he depends on it, or that it's his go to thing, and even if it's not very excessive it's surely not good to be drinking that much.

It really upsets me to write this, as there's a chance he'll read this and be upset or angry and I don't want it to be a thing again, but I just need to hear from other people if this is normal or ok. I'm hoping to get some views and take them in.

I have done a lot to try accept it, and I have a tendency to worry, but he's hardly in the position to assure me it's not an issue, so I don't know what to think. I've questioned it being about me, and maybe he needs something to be around me. If it's not an issue, I will do my utmost to accept that and move on.

strandroad

That's a huge number of units you're describing, most people wouldn't drink as much water/tea/OJ in the day as he drinks alcohol. He's killing his liver. Most definitely a problem.

pookie82

No, this is not normal. Your concerns are well founded. He's taking in an alarming amount of alcohol and the fact that he drinks even when he doesn't particularly like the drink in question, just to get some alcohol into him, highlights his reliance on it. That part really stood out for me. He needs the drug.

The age old problem in this country in particular, of course, is that drinking to excess remains socially "acceptable" for most of your teens and 20s, and even beyond. So it's much harder to convince someone they have a problem with alcohol over, say, hard drugs.

Why don't you show him the list you've written out above? Maybe seeing it in black and white will spark something in his head.

It's an odd thing but very common that children of people with drink problems will go down the same road and vehemently deny there's a problem, even though they should be the very people who recognise it first. It's like they carry some sort of weird denial about their own habits even though they grew up with all the traits and warning signs.

I don't envy you the task of trying to convince him he has a problem if he won't accept it, though. In some ways, if you've pointed this out time and again and met with resistance or denial from him, I'd be advising you to reconsider if you really want this in a partner. I couldn't live with that amount of alcohol in my life as a daily constant.

It may not be affecting his liver or health noticeably now, but don't kid yourself that that day won't come. Is he showing any physical signs yet of his consumption, like a beer gut? Unfortunately he probably won't realise what he's done to his liver until it's too far advanced to remedy, which is often the case.

intheclouds

Ouch, that is a worrying attitude to alcohol alright.

Regardless of whether or not he is an alcoholic, he is definitely putting his health at risk consuming the quantity of alcohol you describe. His liver will not be thanking him for it!

One thing you dont mention at all is his behaviour when he drinks. Or that he gets drunk. Just that he drinks lots and lots.

Id find it off putting in a person. I have known people who when I went to their homes it turned out all of the family were sitting round drinking cans of cider on random tuesday nights. Its just not a good trait to have. It can foster dependency.

Having a drink at breakfast on holidays struck a chord with me, I once dated someone who did this - and he did turn out to be a problem drinker later on.

My own father was an alcoholic but he was more someone who could not stop drinking until he passed out as opposed to have some amount of alcohol very regularly. As his alcoholism worsened he did drink every day, but always to excess. But you mention plenty of things that strike me as red flags, such as always checking whats happening so he can decide to buy drink, lying about drinking, claiming he can go a month without but then still drinking etc...

The bottom line is this, even if he isnt an alcoholic, his drinking is making you uncomfortable and you are experiencing anxiety about it and you have expressed that to him but he still hasnt changed it. So what does that tell you? The drink is more important to him than you are.

If he spoke to a GP about the volume you are describing he would be told in no uncertain terms how dangerous it is.

Final Approach

You are describing someone that is consuming well beyond the recommended daily alcoholic unit intake. It actually sounds to me that he cannot enjoy much that life has to offer without a drink in his hand, e.g. Breakfast on holidays, a day out with you, a night in with you, time with his family, etc. This would be worrying to me, and in my opinion certainly not normal.

You say that you would like some views as to wether this is normal behaviour or not. I suppose everyone drinks to varying degrees, and likes a drink in certain different situations. I am a guy, and for me, I may have a glass of wine with the OH over dinner once a week, or a few pints on the odd Sat night down the local, but that would be it. Equally, months have gone by without touching a drop, simply because I can just as easily go without it. The last drink I had was about three weeks ago. With this in mind, for me, your partners drinking is def not normal, and it does sound to me like his life has started to revolve around it. Hope this helps!

bonyn

Sounds like he fell in to some bad habits.

Does he have any other hobbies apart from drinking?

What age is he, and have you been together long?

Rubberchikken

you may have to decide if you want to remain with someone who may have an issue with alcohol.
from your post it does sound like he may be a person who finds moderation/discipline difficult. if he was willing to admit this and get some help the future might look better. but until he acknowledges that there maybe a problem, someone pointing out his drinking levels will only irritate.

i realise you are concerned for him but sometimes we have to accept that we can't 'fix' someone, that they have to realise they need help themselves.

good luck

Tipperary Fairy

If you take out the 'never' and 'always', and replace with 'sometimes', does it make it better?

I've told him about the thread, he's very angry and i'm very upset. He has no interest in looking at the comments.

HHe didn't drink 5 last night he says he gave two bottles away.

Thing is it's not the individual things. On their own they wouldn't be anything, but together they feel like they are. I don't know if he'll ever think differently

intheclouds

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

I
I've told him about the thread, he's very angry and i'm very upset. He has no interest in looking at the comments.

No surprise there.

There isnt really anything you can do to make him see that there is a problem.

His denial is very clear given he wont even look at the comments here.

All you can do is look after yourself. You cannot control or change someone elses behaviour.

Alcoholism tends to be progressive, so what are warning signs now are the things that become big problems later.

Being so close to the situation will also have given you a bit of a skewed perspective on it too, it normalises it to see that much drinking all the time.

You could ask him to speak to a medical professional perhaps, hear its a problem from a professional but Im sure he knows its a problem and thats why he wont even read the comments here.

You need to decide what future you want.

beans

My mother was an alcoholic, and I failed to see the the destructive effects of my own drinking for what they were (when I was busy destroying relationships with drink about a decade ago). It was only through painful self-examination that I bucked the trend.

I only mention this since you mention your fella's mother's drinking, and that he feels this gives him a kind of innate early-warning system. Maybe it does, but it didn't with me. You'd be the best judge in your case.

Xterminator

if you can fast forward 10 years, can you see a post from yourself saying

"My husband still drinks too much?
His health is deteriorating.
Your children dont like daddy when he is drinking but he is great when sober."

and thats probably a best case scenario. So as yourself is that what you want?

X

Call me Al

Yes that's a lot of alcohol. He needs to see that for himself though. If he can't register the fact that he has a problem, and by counting up those alcohol units it's a big problem, then there isn't a whole lot you can do.

I'm afraid you need to think about what's best for you in this relationship, when he's not even open to talking about your concerns.

Call me Al

Considering his resistance to even look at people's comments or observations I have a sneaking suspicion that subconsciously he might have a fear himself that he has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Head in sand though.

I think you might suspect this too op.

orthsquel

His alcohol consumption is unhealthy. But if he doesn't want to recognise that then there's nothing you can do.

You though, you can determine what you can do. You need to set a limit to what you will accept and what you consider a deal breaker for you. You might want to ask yourself some questions, such as do you want every social occasion to involve and revolve around alcohol? Do you want every holiday to include alcohol? If you were retired could you imagine being happy sitting day or evening after evening down the local watching him drink away the evening even though you could be flying around the world globe trotting, going on cruises or just driving up and down the country to see grandkids?

tbh life is too short. The drinking is an issue because it impacts you. So ask yourself to what extent does it impact you? Does it prevent you having the sort of holiday you'd want? Does it prevent you from going to social things you'd otherwise like? And does it impact you from having the life, the lifestyle you want?

You can't change him if he doesn't see a problem. But it is up to you whether you want to have that being a part of your life. Live your life for you.... but don't live your life hanging onto something that impacts you negatively just in the hope that one day they may wake up and realise they do have a problem. Because that day may never come.

Tipperary Fairy

I'm just being told that i'm wrong, that I've left stuff out that would give context and presumably not make it look as bad. He's said that it's something I'm imagining, and there's only so much my worrying can justify.

I don't know what to do. I love him, but at times like this I feel alone. He's actually being nasty to me, I hate this ****, i've done nothing wrong.

liquoriceall

It's funny growing up my mother had such a thing about people drinking too much, it was such an issue for her that I also grew up really wary of people who drink too much. There is no way I would date this guy, he is a problem drinker now and he will get worse. I find it interesting that he is giving out to you for not providing context? I can honestly say if my OH was so concerned about my drinking that a thread on boards was created I would be holding the mirror up to myself not berating them for the fact!
Do you really want to be with someone who in the future will be wasting money on drink when there's a mortgage to be saved for? When there's creche fees?

Tipperary Fairy

We're not going to have children or a mortgage so that's not really important.

I think he'd rather break up than accept there's a problem. It seems that way anyway. He just doesn't believe there's an issue.

Ursus Horribilis

The truth hurts. You've shone a light on an area of your boyfriend's life that's making him very uncomfortable. He can lie, insult your intelligence and be as aggressive as he likes but it's not going to change the fundamental issue. This man has a drink problem and he is nowhere near the stage of accepting it and doing something about it.

Not everyone will agree with me but I believe you should walk. Unless your boyfriend is willing to admit he has a problem and wants to fix it, you're going nowhere. There will always be three of you in the relationship. You, him and alcohol.

You've also learned the hard way that his alcohol consumption is not up for discussion. Is that healthy?

Ursus Horribilis

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

We're not going to have children or a mortgage so that's not really important.

What age are you? Are you sure you won't change your mind on either? I can see why he wouldn't because kids and mortgages don't go well with the lifestyle an alcoholic

I think he'd rather break up than accept there's a problem. It seems that way anyway. He just doesn't believe there's an issue.

Yep, that sounds about right. Is that what you want though? It's not so bad now because he's younger but if he continues to drink in this fashion as he ages you're in for a rough ride. This is already bothering you - I don't think your misgivings are going to go away.

Does he work? Does he ever drink drive? Does he miss time off work because he's too drunk or hungover?

Tipperary Fairy

The way he seems to see it is I'm being dramatic and making something out of nothing. Maybe I am. Not on purpose. Why would I want there to be a problem where there is none though. He said I should rewrite the post with his edits, that I've purposefully made things up that aren't true to get everyone to agree with me. I don't want you to agree with me. I don't know why he thinks all these bad things about me.
He didn't drink 5 beers, it was 3. I don't remember if he had more than one pint for breakfast on holiday. He said there's plenty of times he's had just one beer or wine. He said he won't just drink whatever beer is going.
He says I'm misrepresenting things and it's to get people to agree with me. It's really unfair

intheclouds

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

I think he'd rather break up than accept there's a problem. It seems that way anyway. He just doesn't believe there's an issue.

If he accepts there is an issue then he has to change his drinking habits. Much easier to say you are the one with the problem.

He is treading a well worn path of behaviour called denial.

Whatever about his drinking, his current lockdown on looking at it speaks volumes.

I hate to say it but the pattern often involves pushing away anyone who threatens the drinking and only surrounding oneself with like minded alcoholics.

Tipperary Fairy

Odus fell down wrote: »

What age are you? Are you sure you won't change your mind on either? I can see why he wouldn't because kids and mortgages don't go well with the lifestyle an alcoholic

Yep, that sounds about right. Is that what you want though? It's not so bad now because he's younger but if he continues to drink in this fashion as he ages you're in for a rough ride. This is already bothering you - I don't think your misgivings are going to go away.

Does he work? Does he ever drink drive? Does he miss time off work because he's too drunk or hungover?

I won't change my mind on the kids. I think it's unfair to say that they won't fit in with his lifestyle, he has quite a lot of savings, he has probably never missed a day of work. He doesn't drive, but no I don't believe he'd drive under the influence.

We're both 32.

intheclouds

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

The way he seems to see it is I'm being dramatic and making something out of nothing. Maybe I am. Not on purpose. Why would I want there to be a problem where there is none though. He said I should rewrite the post with his edits, that I've purposefully made things up that aren't true to get everyone to agree with me. I don't want you to agree with me. I don't know why he thinks all these bad things about me.
He didn't drink 5 beers, it was 3. I don't remember if he had more than one pint for breakfast on holiday. He said there's plenty of times he's had just one beer or wine. He said he won't just drink whatever beer is going.
He says I'm misrepresenting things and it's to get people to agree with me. It's really unfair

Look, small changes to details won't change the overall picture, but it's a common tactic to focus on small things to be able to self righteously claim you are wrong. The bigger picture is that what you describe is not normal when taken as a whole. One pint at breakfast or more, who cares, it's drinking at breakfast at all that's a bad sign.

You are not being dramatic although he seems to be making a very big drama out of being asked to look at his drinking habits.

If I were asked to look at mine I'd log every drink for a few weeks then examine the outcome. No big drama.

LegacyUser

would he be able to justify saying you were being dramatic or making something out of nothing? has that been the case with anything else in the past?

Tipperary Fairy

intheclouds wrote: »

Look, small changes to details won't change the overall picture, but it's a common tactic to focus on small things to be able to self righteously claim you are wrong. The bigger picture is that what you describe is not normal when taken as a whole. One pint at breakfast or more, who cares, it's drinking at breakfast at all that's a bad sign.

You are not being dramatic although he seems to be making a very big drama out of being asked to look at his drinking habits.

If I were asked to look at mine I'd log every drink for a few weeks then examine the outcome. No big drama.

He also said that it was after 1 so it was lunch not breakfast.

I've brought it up a few times before, so I think he's getting fed up of it. Last time I asked would he talk to a doctor and ask them if it was a concern, he said they'd be likely to say that if he's going to them asking if it's a problem that it must be. He never went.

Ursus Horribilis

Have you tried making contact with an alcohol support group such as AA? They also help the families of alcoholics.

intheclouds

Odus fell down wrote: »

Have you tried making contact with an alcohol support group such as AA? They also help the families of alcoholics.

+1

Alanon are the specific help for people affected by someone else's drinking. You would get a lot of support there.

Im not going to comment further on how much is too much or the tricks of denial. The point is, you are affected by someone else's drinking. It's about you.

So, I advise you to get some support for yourself. That might lead to you deciding a different path is better for you. Or it might just give you the tools to cope with it.

Be open and honest that you are feeling affected and need some help for yourself. Often people who go to Alanon change their own behaviour and this provokes change in the alcoholic.

LegacyUser

Yes it's a problem, and his reaction to you addressing it and looking for advice is textbook! He may not be an alcoholic, yet, but he is definitely a problem drinker. The fact that he plans his day/evening around how and where he is going to drink means it is a problem. Nobody wakes up one morning suddenly an alcoholic. It builds up. Overtime. Habits become dependencies.

My husband is a problem drinker. It causes huge problems. Our children notice. On the rare occasion he will join us on a day out somewhere, they are surprised. And occasionally will ask him which pub we will drop him at. It causes financial problems. But his attitude is, I earn it, I can spend it. I have been ridiculed, bullied, humiliated, belittled all to distract from the real problem.

I was speaking to a GP recently who was an alcoholic himself for years. We were talking about various high-profile alcoholics and their excuses and reasonings. He said the common thing with alcoholics, himself included is, it's always someone else's fault. A parent, a boss, the job, family life etc. He said it's easy to blame everyone and everything around you rather than admit you yourself are the only problem.

Everyone has stresses in their lives. Not everyone uses alcohol the same.

My husband also says he doesn't need it, he likes it. He has gone from drinking heavily to drinking heavily regularly. He doesn't work during the summer and from the end of May to the beginning of September last year there was not 1 day where he didn't go to the pub. Before if we went out for something to eat around 3pm, he'd say he wouldn't have a drink because it was too early. The past year or so he could be in the pub at 1.

I started going out with a heavy drinker. I am now married to an alcoholic. Things have come to a head with us and he is cutting back, but I'm not relaxing. He cuts back every so often, and quickly ends up back to "normal". Maybe this time will be different ??!

Think long and hard about what sort of a relationship you want to be in. This lad isn't the only fella in the world for you. I love my children, and wouldn't be without them, but if I had my time over, I wouldn't have gotten involved with someone whose drinking habits were so different to mine.... Next time I'll know better

Tipperary Fairy

I've lived with him and while I don't remember exactly, I'm pretty sure that he did go days during the week without drinking. As I've been working the last two weeks, I haven't been around so I don't know if he's drinking or not. I get the impression that telling me about his day he might leave out if he went for a drink. But maybe not. The problem is some of this is based on my feeling, and he thinks i get an idea into my head and worry about it, and seems to think I make things up in my head to fit the worry. So I don't know.

Thanks for the posts so far. I think it's not as bad as some seem to think, and maybe that's down to me and the way I've explained it. But until he's willing to talk about it, we're going nowhere.

Raminahobbin

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Thanks for the posts so far. I think it's not as bad as some seem to think, and maybe that's down to me and the way I've explained it. But until he's willing to talk about it, we're going nowhere.

He's already managed to make you doubt your perspective!! Look how different this post is to your last few.

Look, OP, in a normal healthy relationship, if something is stressing one partner THIS MUCH, the other partner is supposed to help make it better. If the drinking really wasn't an issue, he wouldn't be getting angry or defensive or trying to get you to rewrite history in your own memory of events. He would be showing you that he cares that you are worried about this, and that your worry is his worry, by going off the drink 100% for an agreed period.

He is using a classic addict methodology of deflecting blame and twisting reality. The issue here is *not* that you misremember things. It is *not* that you asked for advice online. It's that you are uncomfortable with his drinking. He should be focusing on this, not the other things.

Do not ignore your intuition, OP. It's a valuable tool to guide through the bullshìt.

Tipperary Fairy

I don't have intuition. Really.

To be fair though, a person who doesn't have a problem would be doing the same thing, denying everything. So how do you know.

The other thing is, this actually doesn't affect us for the most part, it's not a problem for me. He's fully functional, doesn't blow all his money, doesn't get aggressive when having drank, doesn't waste a day hungover (except half a day when he's been up drinking with his brother, which is not often), doesn't need it to get going in the morning. It affects me and us very little. The only reason I keep bringing it up is because he seems to drink a little too often and a little too much, and originally I was worried about his habits and that it was something he defaulted to too easilyi was worried about it in terms of his mind. And then I thought, it is very often over the recommended limit, so it could be a problem health wise. None of this was because it's having a negative impact on me or us. But obviously it is now because he's reacted so poorly to my concerns.

intheclouds

No. A person who doesn't have a problem would be listening and trying to figure out if they really are drinking too much.

I can see he is excellent at shifting the problem onto you. Very typical behaviour. He really is a textbook problem drinker.

Ursus Horribilis

Have you ever heard of a functioning alcoholic? Even if you boyfriend isn't quite an alcoholic yet, he's well on the way. It's worth googling .

strandroad

Take score of his drinks, one point for a drink you're positive he had and half a point if you're only suspecting. Tote them up in units at the end of the month and you'll see if he has a problem black on white.

It's an exercise well worth doing if you read the post by problem drinker's wife above.

LegacyUser

I laughed reading your last paragraph there. I could have typed it word for word 6 years ago. In fact, he said most of it too me this summer: He's 'not an alcoholic' because he's not drinking bottle of vodka everyday. He's never missed work. Up to recently it wasn't impacting on us financially (it has now gotten to the point where it is... Remember someone telling you it is progressive?? Nobody suddenly turns into an alcoholic) It doesn't affect anybody because he's not violent, he's not falling around drunk in front of the children. I lost count of the number of times I ended up apologising to him for upsetting him by 'accusing him in the wrong', over exaggerating the extent of it etc etc etc.

It's all manipulation, deflection and lies! You know it is, but you want to believe him. I'm in no position to tell you what you should or shouldn't do.. Look at me, still here putting up with this sht 17 years later :rolleyes: ! Just, please read up an living with an alcoholic and see how many boxes you can tick. You are young, you are only at the start of this road. He may not become any 'worse', but would you be happy for him to stay the same?

LegacyUser

I would agree with the above post. The reality is that your boyfriend has an issue with drinking. He is telling you what he thinks you want to hear. Meanwhile you can see how he is. Your worried about his drinking and you have told him what you see.
He does not want to admit he has a problem and until he does this nothing will change.
The reality is that if he keeps drinking this way it will effect his health long term.

You have told us your both 32. Can I ask you where do you see yourself in 5 years time?
Do want to have a family? Do you want to get married?

You have read one ladies story here about how her husband goes off drinking and how it effects his family life.
At this stage I would be taking the advice here and I would end things with him. He is not willing to do anything about his drinking. Being honest do you want to be with a person who is going to put the bottle before you always?

Tipperary Fairy

Please don't say bad things about him, like he's shifting blame. He's a good person, and it's really upsetting to read someone saying that about him.

LegacyUser

mhge wrote: »

Take score of his drinks, one point for a drink you're positive he had and half a point if you're only suspecting. Tote them up in units at the end of the month and you'll see if he has a problem black on white.

It's an exercise well worth doing if you read the post by problem drinker's wife above.

This seems like solid advice OP. How many drinks did he have this week? How many last week? Or the week before? Drinkaware says adult men shouldn't exceed 17 standard drinks in a week and there should be at least two days a week with no alcohol consumed. A pint is 2, a bottle is 1.5, a small glass of wine is 1, and measure of spirits is 1.
Going by your OP he must be way over this.

Ursus Horribilis

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Please don't say bad things about him, like he's shifting blame. He's a good person, and it's really upsetting to read someone saying that about him.

Nobody is saying that he's not a good person. He's a good person with a bad problem. What he is saying is exactly what most problem drinkers say. He knows he has a problem and is drinking far too much. But instead of admitting it, he has resorted to lying about his drinking habits, questioning your judgement and turning on you. It's working too. The tone of your posts has changed dramatically since the first one. I can see exactly where this is going. All I can do is wish you well on the path you appear to be choosing. You're in for a rough ride.

Raminahobbin

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Please don't say bad things about him, like he's shifting blame. He's a good person, and it's really upsetting to read someone saying that about him.

I'm sure he is a good person and nobody here is saying otherwise.

I used to be in a similar relationship where my ex had something he kept refusing to acknowledge. I see so many similarities here, he was an expert at twisting things.

If your bf is deflecting and shifting the blame, it's probably because he genuinely doesn't think he has a problem consciously, not because he means you harm. The problem is that subconsciously he knows he does, and it's making him act in a certain way when challenged.

A lot of people are, unfortunately, very used to dealing with alcohol addiction in this country and can spot his textbook behaviour a mile off. Just because it's textbook doesn't mean he's a bad guy and nobody is trying to blow this out of proportion or undermine his character- but what you really need to realise is how INSANELY toxic alcohol addiction can be to other people in the addict's life. It's not *him* doing these things, necessarily, it really is the alcohol and how it makes him behave.

This is going to affect you. It's going to make you doubt yourself, rewrite history, pull at your heart strings and your empathy like nothing you've ever experienced. Prey on your future.

I wish I was exaggerating, but I've been there. I was left a shell of myself before I even realised what was happening.

It's OK to love him and to want to protect him, but you need to realise that in this case you cannot do that while there is alcohol involved. You need to love yourself enough to put yourself first. You CANNOT save him from this, only he can. And he won't while he refuses to admit the problem.

Wompa1

My aunt goes to work every day too. She's a hardcore alcoholic. She doesn't drink spirits, just beer. She's a high functioning alcoholic but to see how she has aged over the last 30+ years compared to her sisters is pretty horrifying.

intheclouds

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Please don't say bad things about him, like he's shifting blame. He's a good person, and it's really upsetting to read someone saying that about him.

He isnt shifting blame to be mean to you. Its just a defense mechanism that addicts use. Its not even a conscious decision.

Im sure he is a very nice person. Alcoholics are not just horrible people who also suffer from alcoholism - they are just ordinary people.

beans

intheclouds wrote: »

He isnt shifting blame to be mean to you. Its just a defense mechanism that addicts use. Its not even a conscious decision.

Im sure he is a very nice person. Alcoholics are not just horrible people who also suffer from alcoholism - they are just ordinary people.

Which can be half the problem, if things do get bad. If they're the same person you always loved, the crash is very painful indeed. At least you're both deciding to remain childless.

intheclouds

beans wrote: »

Which can be half the problem, if things do get bad. If they're the same person you always loved, the crash is very painful indeed. At least you're both deciding to remain childless.

Actually personality changes can happen due to brain damage over time, it happened to my own father, his personality literally got wiped out and he became "zombie man who just wanted to get to the next drink".

But thats very late stage stuff and not likely to be happening to the OPs BF at the moment.

beans

intheclouds wrote: »

Actually personality changes can happen due to brain damage over time, it happened to my own father, his personality literally got wiped out and he became "zombie man who just wanted to get to the next drink".

But thats very late stage stuff and not likely to be happening to the OPs BF at the moment.

I feel you, been there. Sure, that's the crash I implied... they remain the same person up until the annihilation. Hopefully never happens to this guy.

My meaning was that we don't think there's a problem because the person in question is still there, until one day they're not. If the drinker became horrible during he process of decline, there may be more warning signs and possibilities to detach is what I was trying to say (I think).

intheclouds

beans wrote: »

I feel you, been there. Sure, that's the crash I implied... they remain the same person up until the annihilation. Hopefully never happens to this guy.

My meaning was that we don't think there's a problem because the person in question is still there, until one day they're not. If the drinker became horrible during he process of decline, there may be more warning signs and possibilities to detach is what I was trying to say (I think).

I understand.

Do you think there is any way back from the crash? I remember once thinking that my own father was so far gone (I hadnt seen him sober morning, noon or night) for about 4 years and his personality had been absent for a number of months, that even if by some miracle he stopped drinking, the person he was was gone, erased, as good as if he'd had a lobotomy.

Now as it happened he never did stop drinking and shortly after the above stage he killed both himself and my mother in a drink related accident.

But when I think back on it, I wonder if he ever could have come out of it by then anyway?

OP - thats where the future can go, literally the person is gone. And I really dont know if that level of damage is reversible.

beans

intheclouds wrote: »

I understand.

Do you think there is any way back from the crash? I remember once thinking that my own father was so far gone (I hadnt seen him sober morning, noon or night) for about 4 years and his personality had been absent for a number of months, that even if by some miracle he stopped drinking, the person he was was gone, erased, as good as if he'd had a lobotomy.

Now as it happened he never did stop drinking and shortly after the above stage he killed both himself and my mother in a drink related accident.

But when I think back on it, I wonder if he ever could have come out of it by then anyway?

OP - thats where the future can go, literally the person is gone. And I really dont know if that level of damage is reversible.

Sorry to hear how your story ended, that's tragic.

I think the person mam was, or had been, was gone for good maybe ten years before she died. Around the point when she started drinking every night, lying about it, when little problems started becoming bigger ones. Those ten years saw her fracture her spine getting into the shower on holidays, losing her job due to drinking, quitting booze (substituting liquor for wine :rolleyes:), and alienating her family.

The 'crash' culminated in imposed detox when hospitalised for a fortnight due to complications due to metastasized breast-cancer, which left my poor ma like a howling lunatic before she faded away into death a few months later. That's the car-hitting-the-wall moment, but the wheels spun-out way back like I said. She was effectively 'gone' for a decade. Was it 15 years even? It was basically as long as I can remember.

Once the brain-damage starts to become evident, according to what I've read, abstinence and intervention can reverse things, but in something like 25% of cases it's irreversible. It's so subjective though.

My father enabled this behaviour, was unsupportive, passive, never engaged, made excuses etc. Classic stuff.

I found Al-anon very useful for getting my head around the scope of our problem some years ago.

edit: OP, hope you don't think I'm muscling in on your thread, I only share this in the context of a cautionary tale. I know every situation is technically different, and hope things go well in your case

gaynorvader

I have a question. How much does he drink in an average week? You mention he drinks every time you go out and finishes a six pack every time he buys one, etc. But in an average week is he drinking every day or nearly every day or only on the weekends?

dont bother

genuine question here, but am i missing something?

the OP says that on occasion he buys a 6 pack and drinks it, he'll have a few beers on holidays and on occasion will have a couple of beers on a sunday with his family.

i'm sorry, but that does not nearly constitute alcoholism. the BF, in my opinion does not have a problem at all, and in fact the OP should give up on hounding him about it. let him have his couple of beers.

the OP never mentioned it being every night of the week, and in fact says it's not every night, or all the time, and by the sounds of it, he doesnt get sh!tfaced or out of his head on drink, so it would seem he isnt exactly drinking to mask emotions....

i think you need to chill out on the idea OP. it's not good that you're pushing the issue so hard, and frankly, the "advice" you've been given here is questionable and maybe is coming from people with too much experience of ACTUAL alcoholism in a very negative way, and it's dangerous to heed their advice in your situation - well, there is no "situation". he sounds like a normal guy who has a few beers ON OCCASION. no big deal.

intheclouds

dont bother wrote: »

genuine question here, but am i missing something?

the OP says that on occasion he buys a 6 pack and drinks it, he'll have a few beers on holidays and on occasion will have a couple of beers on a sunday with his family.

Yes, and what you have surmised is not what the OP has said at all.

She has said that he drinks every day, by his own admittance goes over the weekly recommended units, has had alcohol at breakfast, has had alcohol after breakfast on sunday mornings, that its a constant thing, has lied about drinking, drinks on antibiotics, checks what they are doing so that he can get drinks in if they are staying in, drinks beer he doesnt really like if thats all thats available, etc......

Im not sure what part of the above you think is "on occasion buys a 6 pack and drinks it".

gaynorvader

intheclouds wrote: »

Yes, and what you have surmised is not what the OP has said at all.

She has said that he drinks every day, by his own admittance goes over the weekly recommended units, has had alcohol at breakfast, has had alcohol after breakfast on sunday mornings, that its a constant thing, has lied about drinking, drinks on antibiotics, checks what they are doing so that he can get drinks in if they are staying in, drinks beer he doesnt really like if thats all thats available, etc......

Im not sure what part of the above you think is "on occasion buys a 6 pack and drinks it".

I think you may be misrepresenting what OP wrote a little bit. Nowhere is it stated that he drinks everyday, in fact OP goes out of their way in one of their posts to say he didn't drink during the week.
The weekly recommended units are more of a guideline than anything and I wouldn't let that worry me, nor would drinking with a late breakfast as it seems to be somewhat of a family tradition. If he feels his drinking is going to cause a row I'd understand lying about drinking too.
The real warning bells for me are that he drinks things he doesn't really like for the sake of drinking. That he has a bit of an addictive/compulsive personality (he can't just have a handful of nuts/few squares of chocolate, he has to eat the whole thing). And that every event seems to need alcohol (staying in, going out, on holiday all seem to have him needing alcohol to enjoy them).