Grant notice.

Dupont

Got my grant notice a while back and completely forgot about it. It's dated the 24/01. Won't get into post office until Saturday at the earliest. What happens now. Tried helpline but there closed

Sparks

Just go to the post office as soon as you can. It doesn't expire for another three years...


...though your local Garda may give you a bell to remind you if you leave it terribly long...

Scalachi

Hi Dupont & Sparks.

Just to point out part of the Grant letter says as follows:

"On Payment of a €80.00 fee within 30 days, your firearm certificate, valid for three years, will be forwarded directly to you by post. See below for manner of payment. Please Note payment cannot be made at a Garda Station"

So you may have an issue with paying after the 30 days, I don't know, but I assume its how Gardaí start phoning people to remind them that they have unlicensed firearms.

The reason I noted this is because I got a call recently about a gun I had traded in, that the Gardaí were convinced I had been granted a renewal, and they were chasing up that I had not paid it.

And I was renewing a different one today, so the above was in front of me.

Dupont

Sparks wrote: »

Just go to the post office as soon as you can. It doesn't expire for another three years...


...though your local Garda may give you a bell to remind you if you leave it terribly long...

Thanks just thought had to be within 30 days from issue date

hexosan

Once grant letter is issued you only have a valid licence after the fee has been paid at the post office. If you don't pay your in possession of an unlicensed firearm

Cass

Contact your FO, explain the mix up and s/he can issue another grant letter for you. I've done this twice or three times over the years.

Sparks

Hm. Thanks to junior "helping" with paper filing, one of my last grant letters was over a month old by the time my firearms officer rang me this year. Found the letter, went to the post office, paid the fee, got the licence. I think it's too much of an edge case for anyone to get very out of joint over in the PTB (and if they did, well, find me a 30 day reference in the Act or an SI...)

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

............ (and if they did, well, find me a 30 day reference in the Act or an SI...)

Really!

So what is the story with the 30 day "limit" on the grant letter? If there is no legal limitation on the time frame in which you can pay then is it legal or even proper to "pressure" people into paying.

Don't get me wrong 30 days is more than enough and the majority of people cannot pay fast enough so they can get their new gun, but like myself there have been genuine cases where this time frame has expired and cause issues, like this thread has shown, that need not be an issue at all.

Sparks

Operational Garda Matter, I'd guess Cass. Normally that kind of thing breaks in our favour though - see the replacement barrel rules and the authorisations for silencers...

hexosan

Cass wrote: »

Really!

So what is the story with the 30 day "limit" on the grant letter? If there is no legal limitation on the time frame in which you can pay then is it legal or even proper to "pressure" people into paying.

Don't get me wrong 30 days is more than enough and the majority of people cannot pay fast enough so they can get their new gun, but like myself there have been genuine cases where this time frame has expired and cause issues, like this thread has shown, that need not be an issue at all.

I can't see the point here, of course the gardai can "pressure" you if the fee is not paid then you don't have a valid licence. I'd assume the gardai are allowing a 30 day grace period to pay the Grant notice. I certainly wouldn't like to be the test case if I hadn't paid the fee and something happened with the firearm.

You receive the FCR 3 months before your licence expires, this is to cover the fact that the gardai have 90 days to make a decision on an application/renewal.

Technically if you only submit the renewal the day before the expiry date of the licence your in possession of an unlicensed firearm while the decision process is been made.

Likewise once you receive the grant letter that's not your licence until the fee has been paid. You see this with RDF's who will release a firearm to you ONLY if you have the receipt from An Post attached showing the fee was paid. (Grey area)

Also the grant letters are accepted months after the 30 day period at the post office you don't need to have them reissued by the gardai

Like all things firearms related there's only a problem when there's a PROBLEM

I await correction if I'm wrong on the above.

Cass

hexosan wrote: »

I can't see the point here, of course the gardai can "pressure" you if the fee is not paid then you don't have a valid licence.

Why? You don't have a valid license, but you also DON'T have possession of the firearm either.

I'd assume the gardai are allowing a 30 day grace period to pay the Grant notice. I certainly wouldn't like to be the test case if I hadn't paid the fee and something happened with the firearm.

How can it. You don't have the firearm. If an RFD handed out the gun on the grant alone (with no receipt) then he is at fault.

The point, or more accurately the question, was why is there a 30 day time limit with which to pay your grant letter fee if, as Sparks said, there is nothing in legislation to say you must pay it within 30 days.

You receive the FCR 3 months before your licence expires, this is to cover the fact that the gardai have 90 days to make a decision on an application/renewal.

The FCR is somewhat moot in this debate.

A grant letter is for a new gun and the FCR is for one already in your possession. So its obviously more important for An Gardaí (as it should be for the licensee) to make sure the FCRs are done before the expiry of your license otherwise you are in possession of an unlicensed firearm. As you said yourself:

Technically if you only submit the renewal the day before the expiry date of the licence your in possession of an unlicensed firearm while the decision process is been made.

Exactly. So the FCR re-application is not the same as a grant.

Likewise once you receive the grant letter that's not your licence until the fee has been paid. You see this with RDF's who will release a firearm to you ONLY if you have the receipt from An Post attached showing the fee was paid. (Grey area)

Its not your license license at all. Its why when you pay your fee you get a new letter with the actual license attached.

Also the grant letters are accepted months after the 30 day period at the post office you don't need to have them reissued by the gardai

This is what i was asking. Like the OP i based my opinion on what the grant letter said regarding "payment within 309 days". This notion was compounded when i let one grant letter "expire" and when i rang my FO seeking guidance on how to proceed she did not say "You can still use it because the 30 day limit is only a Garda thing and not a legislative one" she said "I'll re-issue the grant letter".

This to me meant the grant letters "expire" after the 30 day time period.

Lmklad

"How can it. You don't have the firearm. If an RFD handed out the gun on the grant alone (with no receipt) then he is at fault."

You're assuming the application is a new one and not a renewal for a F/A already in your possession.

"The point, or more accurately the question, was why is there a 30 day time limit with which to pay your grant letter fee if, as Sparks said, there is nothing in legislation to say you must pay it within 30 days."

The limit is there to encourage owners to actually pay within a reasonable time instead of putting it off. Also means the F/O won't be knocking on your door the day after receiving the grant notice demanding to know why you haven't paid.

"The FCR is somewhat moot in this debate.

A grant letter is for a new gun and the FCR is for one already in your possession. So its obviously more important for An Gardaí (as it should be for the licensee) to make sure the FCRs are done before the expiry of your license otherwise you are in possession of an unlicensed firearm. As you said yourself:

Exactly. So the FCR re-application is not the same as a grant."

A grant notice is notifying you that your application for a new or renewed certificated has been granted. It's for ALL applications not just new ones.

hexosan

Sorry the confusion here is I'm talking about the FCR not the FCA1

Sparks

Lmklad wrote: »

You're assuming the application is a new one and not a renewal for a F/A already in your possession.

Actually, that's a fair point, that's exactly what I'd done.
For an FCR, you could (depending on timelines) be in possession of an unlicenced firearm so you have to watch out for that.
But beyond that, the 30 day limit is an operational thing, not a legislative thing. I don't have a problem with that myself -- we get a lot of good things from operational stuff -- but it's always best to know the source of these things.

Cass

Lmklad wrote: »

You're assuming the application is a new one and not a renewal for a F/A already in your possession.

I am.

My bad. With the talk of RFDs, etc. i immediately assumed it was a new application and the gun was in the RFD.

Lmklad

Now that I think about it, I think the "30 days" was inserted at the request of RFD so that they wouldn't be stuck with delayed payments and left holding part paid F/A.

Dupont

Sorry should have said its for a renewal. I already have the firearm

Lmklad

Just bring to the post office as soon as you are able, shouldn't be any problems.