Sunday mass collections

Theboinkmaster

Many churches seem to do 2 collections - 1 for the priests and 1 for parish.

Question is if the Vatican have €5Bn in assets why can't they fund the priests entirely themselves?

On the face of it if I'm in mass I may have a problem giving money to the church, if the Vatican is already very wealthy.

I'd rather use the cash to give to charity.

biko

The Vatican didn't get filthy rich by giving it away to priests.

TommyKnocker

biko wrote: »

The Vatican didn't get filthy rich by giving it away to priests.

/thread

yeppydeppy

I'd say they've a lot more than €5bn

DavyD_83

They should just charge entry; remove the pretense and all that confusion over how much to give etc.

I have a memory of a priest complaining that they received too many coppers in the collections.
Feck off with your complaining about how you receive your whiparound/tips

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I thought that money was being handed out. That explains a thing or two.

osarusan

It gets you into heaven, don't worry.

Theboinkmaster

DavyD_83 wrote: »

I have a memory of a priest complaining that they received too many coppers in the collections.
Feck off with your complaining about how you receive your whiparound/tips

I was actually chastised by some old yoke one sunday for putting in coppers. I was polite but in my head thought the same thing (and thinking fvck off you old cvnt).

One thing that really pisses me off is all the old ones going into mass acting all superior and holier than now but they've literally just abandoned their cars anywhere they like, double park, park in disabled spaces, on double yellow lines etc.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Think of the size of the CC, you're talking about a worldwide religion with over 1 billion followers. I imagine they have to be self sufficient, Vatican wouldn't be able to fund every church and parish on the globe.

DavyD_83

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Think of the size of the CC, you're talking about a worldwide religion with over 1 billion followers. I imagine they have to be self sufficient, Vatican wouldn't be able to fund every church and parish on the globe.

So, at this point it's basically just a freally big franchise operation?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

This is probably a thinly veiled anti church thread but for what it's worth....
A parish is fundamentally self financing and autonomous is how it uses it's finances. A congregation supports the parish by donating and likewise provides the dues to 'pay' the priest. An annual collection (Peter's pence) actually sends money from parishes to the Vatican. Peter's Pence funds are used for relief works and philanthropic purposes.

Give if you wish, don't if you don't. It's no big deal.

howamidifferent

DavyD_83 wrote: »

So, at this point it's basically just a freally big franchise operation?

Yes, and the big mac is a small disc. :pac:

Duggy747

Buy any 2 priests and get a nun free!

beach_walker

On the slim chance this is a serious thread, they do get a certain amount from the Church but really parishes/dioceses are financially independent units and can and do go bust.

As to why don't the Church completely fund them all, well most Catholics seem to prefer the money going towards charity, education, being the largest NGO healthcare provider in the world etc etc.

No-ones forcing you to give money OP. I do hope you're keeping to your almsgiving this Lent though.

Badly Drunk Boy

beach_walker wrote: »

No-ones forcing you to give money OP. I do hope you're keeping to your almsgiving this Lent though.

Didn't he say he was only throwing in coppers anyway?

ScumLord

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

One thing that really pisses me off is all the old ones going into mass acting all superior and holier than now but they've literally just abandoned their cars anywhere they like, double park, park in disabled spaces, on double yellow lines etc.

I hate this crap. Parking four wide on a corner. Literally just abandoning their car wherever there is space.

Although it's a small town problem, people don't seem to understand the concept of parking at all and will quite literally stop their car in the middle of the road and go off to the post office for a chat. I came around a corner in my town the other day to find a car facing me on my side of the road, parked.

I've been tempted to start taking photos and posting them online.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ScumLord wrote: »

I hate this crap. Parking four wide on a corner. Literally just abandoning their car wherever there is space.

Although it's a small town problem, people don't seem to understand the concept of parking at all and will quite literally stop their car in the middle of the road and go off to the post office for a chat. I came around a corner in my town the other day to find a car facing me on my side of the road, parked.

I've been tempted to start taking photos and posting them online.

It annoys me no end too but I don't know what it has to do with collections.

stoplooklisten

Was there lighting and heating on in the church, did you get a bit of the communion bread

Freeloader

AlanG

In Dublin the second "Share" collection is to share around the area - ie. rich parishes helping poor ones. In my parish the church provided many buildings and resources for several youth clubs, scouts, elderly outreach programmes and a contribution towards the school. No adults were forced to go to church or contribute.

kneemos

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I was actually chastised by some old yoke one sunday for putting in coppers. I was polite but in my head thought the same thing (and thinking fvck off you old cvnt).

One thing that really pisses me off is all the old ones going into mass acting all superior and holier than now but they've literally just abandoned their cars anywhere they like, double park, park in disabled spaces, on double yellow lines etc.

Very Christian of you.

ScumLord

Jaxxon Rancid Snowplow wrote: »

It annoys me no end too but I don't know what it has to do with collections.

It's just one of those things I like complaining about at any opportunity.

Sunny Dayz

My husband's church in his home town had two collections until recently. One was for the priest and the other was for the church renovations which were done about 13 or 14 years ago. The church had to borrow to pay for the church to be renovated and so this was repaid from the additional collection at mass. They only stopped the second collection later last year so I'm guessing it's been repaid. They actually did a nice job on the church, it's clean and warm unlike most churches.
It's only right to have the collection for something like that at mass, it means that those who actually go to mass and use the church are the one's paying for it.

gctest50

A church tax is needed kinda like the Kirchensteuer?? thing in Germany

Want to go to the big building ? Pay

On Pension ? deduct at source

Don't want to go to the big building ? Make official declaration that you're leaving the church

This would also give a much more accurate measure of the actual numbers of each religion

.

Sleepy

Keeping the myriad parishes and orders legally distinct from the Vatican helps preserve the wealth of the Catholic Church: it limits the liability of each parish to it's own resources just like business owners use Ltd companies to protect their personal assets from the failure of the business.

People are happy to complain about the low levels of corporation tax that businesses pay for this privelege yet seem quite happy to allow religions to enjoy the same legal protections while enjoying even more preferential tax treatment.

beach_walker

gctest50 wrote: »

A church tax is needed kinda like the Kirchensteuer?? thing in Germany

Want to go to the big building ? Pay

On Pension ? deduct at source

Don't want to go to the big buiding ? Make official declaration that you're leaving the church

Or y'know, just have the people who go to church make a donation. Like we have now..

ablelocks

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Think of the size of the CC, you're talking about a worldwide religion with over 1 billion followers. I imagine they have to be self sufficient, Vatican wouldn't be able to fund every church and parish on the globe.

DavyD_83 wrote: »

So, at this point it's basically just a freally big franchise operation?

more like a giant Ponzi scheme I've always thought...

realdanbreen

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I was actually chastised by some old yoke one sunday for putting in coppers. I was polite but in my head thought the same thing (and thinking fvck off you old cvnt).

.

Sounds like your mother was out of order there!

Maximus Alexander

Is Sunday mass still a thing?

gctest50

beach_walker wrote: »

Or y'know, just have the people who go to church make a donation. Like we have now..

Grand - want to contribute extra ? go ahead

HiGlo

There is zero chance that I would put any money into an basket that gets passed around any church. It's bad enough having to be at mass in the first place (although, I pretty much never go!) there's no way I'm giving them a cent.

I go to mass occasionally if I didn't want to contribute I would not do so we all have free choice my husband gave up going to mass because of the sex abuse scandal and if has to be in a church for what ever reason he wont contribute any money.

I saw the most bizarre thing the last time I was at mass, it was perpetration for communion mass for children, the children sat with their parents and were called up by the priest take part at various points, anyway one little girls spend the whole time on her I pad and only put it down when they had to go up to he alter her parents didn't seem to be the slightish bit bothers.

ScumLord

mariaalice wrote: »

I saw the most bizarre thing the last time I was at mass, it was perpetuation for communion mass for children, the children sat with their parents and were called up by the priest take part at various points, anyway one little girls spend the whole time on her I pad and only put it down when they had to go up to he alter her parents didn't seem to be the slightish bit bothers.

That's because most people that are going to mass are only doing so out of a social obligation. If it wasn't the done thing to get your children indoctrinated into the Catholic church no one would do it. Their ignorance of their own faith allows them to ignore the fact they don't actually believe or follow the majority of the Catholics churchs teachings.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gctest50 wrote: »

A church tax is needed kinda like the Kirchensteuer?? thing in Germany

Want to go to the big building ? Pay

On Pension ? deduct at source

Don't want to go to the big building ? Make official declaration that you're leaving the church

This would also give a much more accurate measure of the actual numbers of each religion

.

Why on earth go to those lengths? Just go if you're going and gave to the collection if you wish. Deduct at source? Oh come on! Someone could give €1 one week and €5 another, as they feel fit. A deduction at source from a pension is ludicrous.

Declaring you are leaving the church flies in the face of the church being open to all when they want it.

Penny Tration

HiGlo wrote: »

It's bad enough having to be at mass in the first place (although, I pretty much never go!) there's no way I'm giving them a cent.

You don't have to be at mass ever, though? It's a choice.

RobertKK

The first collection is for the priest.
The second is for the bishop to run the diocese, maybe give money to parishes that are not self sustaining, look after retired priests and whatever else is needed.

beach_walker

gctest50 wrote: »

Grand - want to contribute extra ? go ahead

Extra? What do you mean? I give every week to the Sunday collection.

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Is Sunday mass still a thing?

Of course it is.

gctest50 wrote: »

A church tax is needed kinda like the Kirchensteuer?? thing in Germany

Want to go to the big building ? Pay

On Pension ? deduct at source

Don't want to go to the big building ? Make official declaration that you're leaving the church

This would also give a much more accurate measure of the actual numbers of each religion

.

Farcical system. People give what they can afford in the basket on a Sunday, government forcing a tax on people who want to practice their religion is total discrimination, don't know how it's even allowed.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gctest50 wrote: »

Grand - want to contribute extra ? go ahead

What do you mean? People who wish to contribute do so and contribute what they want when they want.

gctest50

Jaxxon Rancid Snowplow wrote: »

...... Deduct at source? Oh come on! Someone could give €1 one week and €5 another, as they feel fit..........

That's exactly my point - it makes it harder for the priest to plan say roof repairs etc etc

A regular dependable source of income and then people can "top it up " as much or little as they like

It's like a cat being a stray - they'll get by but it's a bit touch n go - much better with a regular dependable source of food

How do they judge "as they feel fit" ? a particularly nice bit of singing that Sunday or ?????

beach_walker

Amiya Damp Babel wrote: »

Farcical system. People give what they can afford in the basket on a Sunday, government forcing a tax on people who want to practice their religion is total discrimination, don't know how it's even allowed.

Indeed, you gotta laugh at the idea of the German government requiring people to register their religious affiliation with them!

gctest50 wrote:

That's exactly my point - it makes it harder for the priest to plan say roof repairs etc etc

No it doesn't. At all. Repairs get done, if needs be by a loan. Previous local church had such a loan and each week in the newsletter would indicate how much of the collection went to pay it off etc.

But let's be honest here, you don't actually care about any of that do you?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gctest50 wrote: »

That's exactly my point - it makes it harder for the priest to plan say roof repairs etc etc

A regular dependable source of income and then people can "top it up " as much or little as they like

It's like a cat being a stray - they'll get by but it's a bit touch n go - much better with a regular dependable source of food

How do they judge "as they feel fit" ? a particularly nice bit of singing that Sunday or ?????

Are you deliberately being obtuse? They give as they feel fit aka as they can afford in any week.

The whole idea is preposterous. I'm involved with parish activities here and we can plan and budget very well without imposing a fixed tax on parishioners.


Your stray cat analogy is quite insulting really.

diomed

I want to know where the OP got the €5 billion assets figure.
Assets do not mean cash. Perhaps the buildings are part of the assets.
Or is it just that "everyone knows the Catholilc Church is loaded"?

Theboinkmaster

beach_walker wrote: »

On the slim chance this is a serious thread, they do get a certain amount from the Church but really parishes/dioceses are financially independent units and can and do go bust.

As to why don't the Church completely fund them all, well most Catholics seem to prefer the money going towards charity, education, being the largest NGO healthcare provider in the world etc etc.

No-ones forcing you to give money OP. I do hope you're keeping to your almsgiving this Lent though.

My query is genuine, not church bashing - I have a huge amount of time for priests.

Theboinkmaster

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Didn't he say he was only throwing in coppers anyway?

No he did not, read the post again

Fr_Dougal

Cyber-bullies. :mad:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I was actually chastised by some old yoke one sunday for putting in coppers...

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Didn't he say he was only throwing in coppers anyway?

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

No he did not, read the post again

Yes, read it again.

gctest50

Amiya Damp Babel wrote: »

Of course it is.

Farcical system. People give what they can afford in the basket on a Sunday, government forcing a tax on people who want to practice their religion is total discrimination, don't know how it's even allowed.

It's not government, the church collect it via the system already in place

Makes perfect sense


They could set it the same as the average price of a pint

The current average price of a pint of stout countrywide is €4.30.

http://publin.ie/2015/the-price-of-a-pint-from-1928-2015-in-todays-money/

stoplooklisten

diomed wrote: »

I want to know where the OP got the €5 billion assets figure.
Assets do not mean cash. Perhaps the buildings are part of the assets.
Or is it just that "everyone knows the Catholilc Church is loaded"?

He saw someone put it in the basket on sunday, 5b even

Oasis1974

And you see the feckin priest drive away in his BMW not a chance.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Oasis1974 wrote: »

And you see the feckin priest drive away in his BMW not a chance.

Then just don't give. It's not compulsory.

Oasis1974

Is the money they get every Sunday taxed then?