Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

Mope

unkel wrote: »

If the installer uses your cable (costs €15 to buy your own, incl. shipping)) then an electrician will just have to fit a part that will cost you €25 incl. shipping and is a 2 minute job

The unit will also have to be flashed. Which I'm not sure any electrician can / will do, but it can be done DIY and hopefully we'll get a guide up. You'll need a tool for this too which costs €5 incl. shipping, so €45 in total plus an electrician call out rate to turn your free 16A into a 32A charging point

Just saw a white Ioniq EV parked outside one of the schools in Adamstown here. Anyone on here?

Cable which will be used to connect my free 16A point to my house will not require replacement when I will change to 32A?

All sounds good, looks like there is no panic to get 16A and later upgrade if needs be. Correct?

I have to revisit your post re fitting charging point in your house.

Thanks

unkel

Mope wrote: »

Cable which will be used to connect my free 16A point to my house will not require replacement when I will change to 32A?

Yes it will!

The standard install will use cable that is only suitable for 16A, so it is very important you get them to use cable suitable for 32A (6mm2 for a short run and 10mm2 for a very long run, I guess well over 10m)

I got the 6mm2 cable myself (the €15) and the installer used that.

grogi

unkel wrote: »

Yes it will!

The standard install will use cable that is only suitable for 16A, so it is very important you get them to use cable suitable for 32A (6mm2 for a short run and 10mm2 for a very long run, I guess well over 10m)

I got the 6mm2 cable myself (the €15) and the installer used that.

Or simply use two cables...

Mope

What do you mean use two cables?

Have 16A cable connected to CP from House Circuit and 32A laid down beside waiting for upgrade of CP to compatible chip/brain?

grogi

Mope wrote: »

What do you mean use two cables?

Have 16A cable connected to CP from House Circuit and 32A laid down beside waiting for upgrade of CP to compatible chip/brain?

Two pairs of 4sq.

Water John

If you at any stage intend upgrading to 32A, just provide the cable either 6 or 10sq for the installer to use.

unkel

That's what I did. Took me some convincing the installer to do that free of charge though! I provided the 6mm2 cable, he had to use bigger ducts than for the standard 4mm2 cable.

Water John

Yeah, there might be a bit of grumbling, turn a deaf ear. On the other hand, he won't have to supply any cable.
If he gave me a reasonable quote, he would have got my second connection job.

In theory the standard 4mm2 cable should suffice no ?

Mope

It is easy for you, local guys, to discuss such matters with contractors :-) (turning deaf ear and etc) It is different, however, for likes of me :-) I have no to very little clue about Electric stuff so to me even 4mm2, 6mm2 is bird talk. I assume (from looking at Google Images) it's how many wires are inside the cable and 2 stands for something as well. I already gathered that I need 6mm2 and you can get it bought to cut or in set amount of meters. I need to get one of those and have it ready before ESB fitter is at my house.

So it goes in this order:

1) 32A compatible - 6mm2 cable. Any links to the actual, good, well known cable I can buy online or somewhere in North Dublin or Tallaght area? As for ducting? (is this how you call it), the little plastic thing you put cable in when you route it along the wall, respectful electrician should have enough of this to get my cable routed or I need to get what I'd like along with 32A compatible cable?

2) Free of charge ESB CP (Charging Point) is compatible with 32A, but needs Flashing or I need to get a different CP if I want to avail of faster charging? Flashing thing isn't really something legal either, is it?
2a) if I don't get it now and 16A CP is installed I can use it now with no problem with 3.3kW charge
2b) if I buy 32A CP (if I need it depending on answer to point "2" and present it to ESB installer - additional money will most likely be asked as it is not standard install?

3) Anything I miss?

For now all I do is gather info re 32A charging point and I know I already need 32A compatible cable to get fitter from wall to CP to "future proof".

I am sorry to repeat questions as I definitely saw it somewhere in discussion, but entire detailed picture of how things work is still a mystery to me. I just hope there would be a Guide or manual for dummies like me :S

slave1

6mm2 is six millimetres square cable and the cheapest place is your local electrical wholesaler.
Sounds like you will be installing outside so you will need armoured cable, its called SWA, steel wire armoured, it's quite thick so generally you need to tell them how many meters you want and in advance as they will need to cut it from a large reel for you.
If you are running outside you will be better off with a single run of SWA the entire length even if some of the run is inside.
SWA will not require ducting normally (unless you have a "I know everything" neighbour like me!!).
If your run of cable is less than 20m then 6mm2 is fine, longer than 20m then 10mm2 which is much thicker.
I've put in a 11m run of 6mm2 for my charge point and it cost me €30 something so it's not that expensive...

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

In theory the standard 4mm2 cable should suffice no ?

Not for 32A. Probably be fine for a wee while, but I've no doubt it would be heating up and be dangerous during prolonged use (like charging up an EV)

6mm2 for a short run of a few meters
10mm2 for a longer run

Is what you need. I guess your install is only 4mm2?

Edit - busy in this thread this morning

KCross

Mope wrote: »

It is easy for you, local guys, to discuss such matters with contractors :-) (turning deaf ear and etc) It is different, however, for likes of me :-) I have no to very little clue about Electric stuff so to me even 4mm2, 6mm2 is bird talk. I assume (from looking at Google Images) it's how many wires are inside the cable and 2 stands for something as well. I already gathered that I need 6mm2 and you can get it bought to cut or in set amount of meters. I need to get one of those and have it ready before ESB fitter is at my house.

Respectfully, if you really have no clue it might be better just getting a contractor out and let him buy the materials. It would be better to get him to buy them than for you to buy the wrong ones!

Also, I'm unsure if you are buying a new or secondhand EV? If its new you dont need to buy anything for the chargepoint, the chargepoint and cabling and labour is free. Just ask the contractor to put in 32A capable cable so that its future proofed.

Mope

KCross, yes it is a new EV. My run is very short if any length at all and is outside. My Electric panel (where gas meter, Broadband and Electricity is) is just beside my cars, like maybe 2-3 meters away, so Im planning to install CP exactly below the panel.

The approach of - let contractor get everything is very dangerous cost wise, imo. The guy can smell very quick how bad I am with it and can quote me through the roof.

KCross

Mope wrote: »

KCross, yes it is a new EV. My run is very short if any length at all and is outside. My Electric panel (where gas meter, Broadband and Electricity is) is just beside my cars, like maybe 2-3 meters away, so Im planning to install CP exactly below the panel.

The approach of - let contractor get everything is very dangerous cost wise, imo. The guy can smell very quick how bad I am with it and can quote me through the roof.

If its a new EV the whole thing is free.

thelikelylad

unkel wrote: »

Car - dealer will do all this themselves. Ring them every couple of days to make sure there are no delays. It's in their interest to get the grant, as you will be paying net-of-grant. Much better than in the olden days when you had to apply for an SEAI grant yourself and then you got the money back several months later...

So I found out it's worthwhile to contact the SEAI too if there are delays.

As suspected the dealer was telling porkies about applying for the grant. :mad:

Mope

Is this charger compatible with Ioniq?
I see it's 32amps, but why only 22kW?

grogi

Mope wrote: »

I see it's 32amps, but why only 22kW?

P = I*V... How much power would you like to see with only 32 A?

cros13

Mope wrote: »

Is this charger compatible with Ioniq?

Yes, you can charge at the full 7.0kW that the Ioniq supports.

Mope wrote: »

I see it's 32amps, but why only 22kW?

It's 3 x 32 amps @ 400V. Three phase. 22kW is a lot of power. Your household supply is probably only 12 or 16kW and a 13A three pin plug maxes out at 3kW.

To put it another way... that socket can supply 160-170km of range per hour of charging.... but the Ioniq (like most EVs) will only take ~55-60km/hour because it's internal charger will only take power from one of the three phases presented by the socket.

A 3.3kW equipped Leaf would only take ~25km/hour
A 6.6kW equipped Leaf would only take ~50km/hour
A 7.4kW equipped i3 would only take ~60-65km/hour
A 11kW equipped i3 or Model S/X would use all phases but only 16A for ~100km/hour (the Teslas are software limited... you can charge faster by optioning "High-Amperage Charger" or upgrade your existing car online)
A 16.5kW equipped Model S/X would use all phases but only 24A for 125-130km/hour
A 16.5kW equipped Model S (pre-2016) and Renault Zoe would use all phases to get up to 170km/hour

Rough numbers but you get the idea.

grogi

cros13 wrote: »

Yes, you can charge at the full 7.0kW that the Ioniq supports.



It's 3 x 32 amps @ 400V. Three phase. 22kW is a lot of power. Your household supply is probably only ~12kW.

EEee?! Domestic three-phase supply of 230V can be compared to a single phase 400V; but you cannot multiply it again... Three phase 32A supply can provide ~ 13kW of power.

cros13

grogi wrote: »

EEee?! Domestic three-phase supply of 230V can be compared to a single phase 400V; but you cannot multiply it again... Three phase 32A supply can provide ~ 13kW of power.

Not sure what you mean there. The image posted was of a 400V/3-Phase/32A commercial wall mounted Rolec. I assume it's a work/destination charger not that Mope is considering purchasing one for home use.

And I'm just simplifying the other numbers. A 12kVA 230V single-phase domestic connection for EV charging purposes maxes out at 11.59kW because you can at max maintain a power factor of 0.8 for continuous loads.

Mope

I am sorry, didn't want to get anyone upset here. You are correct, this is charging point at my work where currently Tesla is charged. I was just looking to know if I can charge here and how safe would it be, I mean would it be normal charge or fast charge.

cros13

Mope wrote: »

I am sorry, didn't want to get anyone upset here.

We're an opinionated bunch in this forum... you'll get used to us!

Mope wrote: »

You are correct, this is charging point at my work where currently Tesla is charged. I was just looking to know if I can charge here and how safe would it be, I mean would it be normal charge or fast charge.

EV chargepoints and the EVs themselves have layers upon layers of built-in safety features and will cleanly deal with all sorts of faults without causing damage to your vehicle.
In fact the method of charging to be most careful of is the EVSE with the standard three-pin plug on the end.

You'd charge at 7kW, same as you would from a 32A home chargepoint. From an empty battery in an Ioniq that's ~4 hours. You'd get on average about 30% of the Ioniq's battery charged every hour (The 4 hours includes a slow start for an empty battery and a slow period as the battery is topped off and/or balanced).

BoatMad

32A amps in a 3 phase systems gives approx 22kW of power at a PF of 1

the VLN , is VLL/sqroot ( 3) so a VLL of 400V 3 phase gives approx a VLN 230 VAC , 32A is available per Leg , i.e. 230 x 32 amps x 3 = 22KW, which is why the label is so stated on the charger you refer to, Its a 3 phase charger and hence is capable of delivering 22kW in that configuration , assuming the charger in the car can accept such power

this would compare to 7.3kW in a similar single phase system , rated at 32A. ( you can essentially at a simplistic level , treat 3 phase as three single phases providing power in parallel )

BoatMad

And I'm just simplifying the other numbers. A 12kVA 230V single-phase domestic connection for EV charging purposes maxes out at 11.59kW because you can at max maintain a power factor of 0.8 for continuous loads.

Leaf PF ranges basically from 0.98 at low power to 0.99 at full power, this is typical of switched mode power supplies as they are least efficient at low levels of power conversion

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/SteadyStateLoadCharacterization2015Leaf.pdf

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

EEee?! Domestic three-phase supply of 230V can be compared to a single phase 400V; but you cannot multiply it again... Three phase 32A supply can provide ~ 13kW of power.

3phase power rated at 32A using the conventional understanding of such terminology , i.e. 32A per leg, provides 22Kw of total power ignoring reactive power i.e. 22kVA

on the other hand a 3 phase load drawing a total of 32A , assuming balanced phases and a PF of 1, would be consuming 10.6A per leg , or 7360 kW in total

grogi

cros13 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean there. The image posted was of a 400V/3-Phase/32A commercial wall mounted Rolec. I assume it's a work/destination charger not that Mope is considering purchasing one for home use.

BoatMad wrote: »

3phase power rated at 32A using the conventional understanding of such terminology , i.e. 32A per leg, provides 22Kw of total power ignoring reactive power i.e. 22kVA

on the other hand a 3 phase load drawing a total of 32A , assuming balanced phases and a PF of 1, would be consuming 10.6A per leg , or 7360 kW in total

I've educated myself about three-phase supplies. Appologies for stealing the thread - but are those 400V on each phase (with cross-phase voltage of ~700V)?

Donnelly117

grogi wrote: »

I've educated myself about three-phase supplies. Appologies for stealing the thread - but are those 400V on each phase (with cross-phase voltage of ~700V)?

No its 220 per phase. So in total would be 220 + 220*0.866 giving 410v ish with 120 degrees between phases...
3 phase is measured between 2 phases, not between phase and neutral like a single phase supply would be. Giving a phase lag between them, of 120 degrees
I think that's about right, been a while since college electrical days!

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

I've educated myself about three-phase supplies. Appologies for stealing the thread - but are those 400V on each phase (with cross-phase voltage of ~700V)?

VLL (live to live ) for 3phase in Ireland is 400V
VLN (live to neutral ) is VLL/ sqroot(3) or approx 230 VAC

3 phase doesn't need a neutral and for example 3phase motors don't use them , as Nickoli Tesla demonstrated that 120 degree phase shifted supplies can automatically be used to cause mechanical rotation

However in many cases 3phase is used combined with a neutral to in effect provide 3x single phase power.

samih

Great information there BoadMad.