Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

unkel

KCross wrote: »

All it does now is validate that Nissan did the right thing and these charge speeds are what is required for current battery tech. Its a massive disappointment.

I wouldn't go that far. Current battery tech can do 3C no problem. Tesla Model 3 LR and P can charge at 250kW (well over 3C), even the old model Ioniq (2016) can charge at nearly 3C max.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

What's with the charger end of the cable here (in the "flung the cable in the boot" pic)? Doesn't look like mine at all.
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hyundai-ioniq-ev/22868326

Dropped a grand in price in a week. I'd suspect they're trading in/up and they're trying to beat the trade in price Kearys offered them. Could be a bargain had by someone.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I wouldn't go that far. Current battery tech can do 3C no problem. Tesla Model 3 LR and P can charge at 250kW (well over 3C), even the old model Ioniq (2016) can charge at nearly 3C max.

I know Li-ion can take higher charge rates but like everything in the li-ion world there are tradeoffs between that and longevity.

Sure a Leaf 24 from 2010 can take 2C for part of its cycle! Its hardly a boast!

Clearly high charge rates are not simple to achieve without trading off for something else and thats what Nissan and Hyundai appear to have done.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I know Li-ion can take higher charge rates but like everything in the li-ion world there are tradeoffs between that and longevity.

I'm not buying that. Plenty of Ioniqs are now nearly 3 years old, if 3C charging had any detrimental affect, some cars would be affected by now. And there are none that I know of.

As in a previous point I made about overclocking CPUs. What's the point in trying to get a 40 year life out of a car battery when the car will be scrapped after about 15 years?

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

I'm not buying that. Plenty of Ioniqs are now nearly 3 years old, if 3C charging had any detrimental affect, some cars would be affected by now. And there are none that I know of.

As in a previous point I made about overclocking CPUs. What's the point in trying to get a 40 year life out of a car battery when the car will be scrapped after about 15 years?

They probably getting the 38kWh pack cheaper than the 28kWh from LG

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I'm not buying that. Plenty of Ioniqs are now nearly 3 years old, if 3C charging had any detrimental affect, some cars would be affected by now. And there are none that I know of.

You respect Bjorn, take a look at his recent vid on degradation.

As in a previous point I made about overclocking CPUs. What's the point in trying to get a 40 year life out of a car battery when the car will be scrapped after about 15 years?

It’s the warranty the manufacturers care about. Get the balance wrong and they’ve a costly mistake on their hands.


I’m not saying I have the answer but I haven’t seen a believable explanations why the new Ioniq active liquid cooled battery is charging at 14kW at 70% SoC. I’m all ears! What’s your theory?

unkel

KCross wrote: »

It’s the warranty the manufacturers care about. Get the balance wrong and they’ve a costly mistake on their hands.

You have a point there, but the manufacturer only has a liability if the battery goes below 70% within 8 years. Not very likely to happen

I reckon Mike9832 is closer. The 38kWh pack from LG Chem is probably the only pack they can get and LG has protected their ass. Because they can as there is no competition. So they might as well. They don't care the Ioniq MY2020 with the 38kWh pack gets bad reviews...

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I reckon Mike9832 is closer. The 38kWh pack from LG Chem is probably the only pack they can get and LG has protected their ass. Because they can as there is no competition. So they might as well. They don't care the Ioniq MY2020 with the 38kWh pack gets bad reviews...

Protected it from what?

unkel

Belt & braces? To make sure Hyundai / Kia don't come knocking if there is even one battery replacement under warranty.

Only explanation that makes any sense to me. Shortage of batteries means the few manufacturers can make what they want and almost charge for it what they want.

Tesla makes their own batteries and they have no problem releasing cars which can charge at 250kW and still stand over the warranty

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Belt & braces? To make sure Hyundai / Kia don't come knocking if there is even one battery replacement under warranty.

Only explanation that makes any sense to me. Shortage of batteries means the few manufacturers can make what they want and almost charge for it what they want.

To steal your own words, I'm not buying that. Why would you need belts & braces if these 3C charge rates are "no problem" as you put it? This pack is barely doing 1C!

The idea that they let Hyundai go fast and loose with the 28kWh pack without a care in the world and then somehow decided to screw Hyundai over with the next pack just because they can, doesnt compute for me.

All these packs (or any li-ion cell you buy) are built with a specific spec and charge profile that you have to adhere to to stay within warranty.

Either Hyundai are adhering to that spec or they've a software bug or something but I cant believe that LG have just decided to hobble the pack unnecessarily. There is nothing in it for them if they do that if they hope to be leaders in the field going forward. Its just not a sane thing to do for a commercial business in an industry that is going to go through exponential growth in the years ahead.

unkel wrote: »

Tesla makes their own batteries and they have no problem releasing cars which can charge at 250kW and still stand over the warranty

And hats off to them. They've been the leaders by a large margin since the start for charge rates. They have better cooling and they use a different form factor to most of the other manufactuers (cyclindrical cells). Whatever formula they've put together works. Why the others cant is unclear.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

To steal your own words, I'm not buying that. Why would you need belts & braces if these 3C charge rates are "no problem" as you put it? This pack is barely doing 1C!

The idea that they let Hyundai go fast and loose with the 28kWh pack without a care in the world and then somehow decided to screw Hyundai over with the next pack just because they can, doesnt compute for me.

All these packs (or any li-ion cell you buy) are built with a specific spec and charge profile that you have to adhere to to stay within warranty.

Either Hyundai are adhering to that spec or they've a software bug or something but I cant believe that LG have just decided to hobble the pack unnecessarily. There is nothing in it for them if they do that if they hope to be leaders in the field going forward. Its just not a sane thing to do for a commercial business in an industry that is going to go through exponential growth in the years ahead.

I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but you are implying that the 3C charging Ioniq 28kWh is degrading the battery to a serious extent (that more than a few will need warranty replacement) :eek:

You could be right, but I doubt it. Time will tell.

In the mean time I look forward to charging and discharging my battery at 3C as many times as I can

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but you are implying that the 3C charging Ioniq 28kWh is degrading the battery to a serious extent (that more than a few will need warranty replacement) :eek:

You could be right, but I doubt it. Time will tell.

In the mean time I look forward to charging and discharging my battery at 3C as many times as I can

I'm not implying (intentionally anyway) that.

Im saying Hyundai are staying within the parameters that are required to ensure warranty is not an issue for them.

The 28kWh pack is clearly different... less dense, different chemistry or whatever and it can handle it and will likely outlive the car.

The 38kWh pack cant take anything like the same rates for some inextricable reason. Probably a combination of different chemistry, increased density etc that means it just cant go much higher without risking the warranty and lifespan of the pack.

mouthful

unkel wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but you are implying that the 3C charging Ioniq 28kWh is degrading the battery to a serious extent (that more than a few will need warranty replacement) :eek:

You could be right, but I doubt it. Time will tell.

In the mean time I look forward to charging and discharging my battery at 3C as many times as I can

I have over 80k km on my Ioniq and my usable battery is still showing 100% SOH. Best car I have ever owned!

Black_Knight

mouthful wrote: »

I have over 80k km on my Ioniq and my usable battery is still showing 100% SOH. Best car I have ever owned!

I guess what people are saying is, so did the one Bjorn did his math on and from his calculations the battery had lost ~8% SOH. Bjorn wasn't flawless though. Kinda feel like if he did his test again, having learned from his first test he might get more conclusive results. Displayed SOC vs BMS SOC is different, and IIRC he used displayed SOC in his calculations. Either way, it doesnt look like that cars battery was at 100%. Might try out my own test next time I do a longer spin.

KCross

Black_Knight wrote: »

I guess what people are saying is, so did the one Bjorn did his math on and from his calculations the battery had lost ~8% SOH. Bjorn wasn't flawless though. Kinda feel like if he did his test again, having learned from his first test he might get more conclusive results. Displayed SOC vs BMS SOC is different, and IIRC he used displayed SOC in his calculations. Either way, it doesnt look like that cars battery was at 100%. Might try out my own test next time I do a longer spin.

His test was a bit iffy alright. I think a better test would be to run the car down to turtle, then charge it to 100% and have a decent kWh meter (not a clip on thing) on the charge point and see how much energy it takes and subtract for charging losses.... maybe 8% or so.... thats your usable capacity and you can repeat that test fairly consistently over time to see the losses.

mouthful

Black_Knight wrote: »

I guess what people are saying is, so did the one Bjorn did his math on and from his calculations the battery had lost ~8% SOH. Bjorn wasn't flawless though. Kinda feel like if he did his test again, having learned from his first test he might get more conclusive results. Displayed SOC vs BMS SOC is different, and IIRC he used displayed SOC in his calculations. Either way, it doesnt look like that cars battery was at 100%. Might try out my own test next time I do a longer spin.

He accepted that the first 50% of the battery is much bigger than the last, and then charged the battery to 94% and counted the remaining 6% as 6%. I drove 200km yesterday Donegal to Galway) - it worked out at exactly 12kwh per 100 km- I had 30km remaining on the GOM- that indicates to me that I still have the entirety of my usable battery.

Black_Knight

mouthful wrote: »

He accepted that the first 50% of the battery is much bigger than the last, and then charged the battery to 94% and counted the remaining 6% as 6%. I drove 200km yesterday Donegal to Galway) - it worked out at exactly 12kwh per 100 km- I had 30km remaining on the GOM- that indicates to me that I still have the entirety of my usable battery.

Sweet! I'd hope to do something similar myself some time! At least Bjorns video has us talking/investigating it. I never thought about the first 50% being more efficient than the last. Not sure when my next ~200km trip might be.

unkel

I still see 240km range when the car is fully charged. Same as last summer. And more than the first summer. Have the car almost 2.5 years and 38k km now.

No doubt there has been degradation, there has to be. But it seems it must be very minimal based on my car alone. Pretty ideal circumstances though. Car does a lot of small trips, almost all driving around the greater Dublin area (Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare, Meath, Louth) and very little sustained 120km/h or above and very little fast charging. Nearly always charge it up to 100% once it goes below 40-50%

slicedpanman

Questions for the ioniq owners:

1) the timed preheating; does this only work if you are plugged in? If so how do 2 EV households manage?

2) the recalls; is there a way for Joe Soap to determine, say with the vin, if they have all been carried out? Or is it a trip to the dealer?

irishgrover

slicedpanman wrote: »

Questions for the ioniq owners:

1) the timed preheating; does this only work if you are plugged in? If so how do 2 EV households manage? - plug in only.

2) the recalls; is there a way for Joe Soap to determine, say with the vin, if they have all been carried out? Or is it a trip to the dealer? - don't know. But if you are buying one 2nd hard, it will have been serviced. If it's being serviced, normally the 1st thing the dealer will do is check for recalls?

see inline

shanemkelly

slicedpanman & irishgrover wrote: »

Questions for the ioniq owners:

1) the timed preheating; does this only work if you are plugged in? If so how do 2 EV households manage? - plug in only.

Pain in the neck, this one...

Black_Knight

To be fair, the heater gets nice and warm pretty quickly (I only charge every couple of days at best). That said, i'm not experienced a winter with my Ioniq yet.

mouthful

slicedpanman wrote: »

Questions for the ioniq owners:

1) the timed preheating; does this only work if you are plugged in? If so how do 2 EV households manage?

2) the recalls; is there a way for Joe Soap to determine, say with the vin, if they have all been carried out? Or is it a trip to the dealer?

I use a granny cable and external socket

2 a trip to dealer required, as I understand

zg3409

slicedpanman wrote: »

Questions for the ioniq owners:

2) the recalls; is there a way for Joe Soap to determine, say with the vin, if they have all been carried out? Or is it a trip to the dealer?

Email Hyundai Ireland. That's what I did. I sent vin and reg. I included vin as mine is a UK import. They emailed me back.

In terms of software updates you can see the version on the screen, and compare to latest or post up here.

listermint

mouthful wrote: »

I use a granny cable and external socket

2 a trip to dealer required, as I understand

How long does it take to charge from minimum with that method

unkel

listermint wrote: »

How long does it take to charge from minimum with that method

Granny cable = 2kW
Ioniq = 28kWh

So from completely empty to completely full would take 14 hours

On a wallbox charger, this is down to 4 hours

k123456

New to Ioniq ;

Car parked in driveway, not plugged in, not switched on alarmed

Approx 40% charged
From the house noticed one of the three blue charge LEDS flashing

Unlocked car, switched it on, flashing stops
checked touchscreen, could not see an obvious reason one of the three blue charge LEDS flashing

switched off car, and locked it, LED still not flashing

Any ideas what caused one LED to flash, I have aux 12v battery charging switched on from options. Could it have been the 28kwh battery charging the 12v ?

unkel

k123456 wrote: »

Could it have been the 28kwh battery charging the 12v ?

You got it in one k123456

Handy feature, but it won't help you when the car is switched off and someone is messing with the controls / climate / windows / stereo etc. for a bit. Tiny 12V battery capacity, it drains very quickly. And when it does, the car won't start. Happened to a few owners, almost happened to me (well my wife actually) once.

irishgrover

k123456 wrote:

Approx 40% charged From the house noticed one of the three blue charge LEDS flashing

I believe your 12v batt was being topped up. Normal behaviour

Petetheroadie

Could anyone share a screenshot of the latest software etc? Picking up my Ex demo Ioniq up north tomorrow, so want to ensure everything is up to date.

Thanks!

Pete