Why can't our 17 year olds Just Play!

Saint Sonner

The new rule regarding U-17 not being able to play adult football is a very harsh rule on players and smaller clubs. Does anyone else feel that this is a foolish rule being imposed?

Will clubs be able to field all teams without them? I know in our club every now and then we produce 2/3 17 year olds that get game time to progress their development and it also helps out making sure we have enough for a squad with two teams.

I think it also hinders the players as from what I know we have a few decent minors but the squad as a whole would not be that strong and aren’t expected to qualify for playoffs (hopefully they will) this would then leave it that our decent 17 year olds season would be finished by end of April.

I would be worried that we could lose these lads to other sports or worst still – if they’re idle they could end up trying out the social life and lose their interest in football.

I honestly don’t understand the logic of this ruling – in my mind the players who are in most danger of burnout are from 19-22.

Would there be an appetite for this rule to be changed and if so is it even possible to have it changed?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Saint Sonner wrote: »

The new rule regarding U-17 not being able to play adult football is a very harsh rule on players and smaller clubs. Does anyone else feel that this is a foolish rule being imposed?

Will clubs be able to field all teams without them? I know in our club every now and then we produce 2/3 17 year olds that get game time to progress their development and it also helps out making sure we have enough for a squad with two teams.

I think it also hinders the players as from what I know we have a few decent minors but the squad as a whole would not be that strong and aren’t expected to qualify for playoffs (hopefully they will) this would then leave it that our decent 17 year olds season would be finished by end of April.

I would be worried that we could lose these lads to other sports or worst still – if they’re idle they could end up trying out the social life and lose their interest in football.


I honestly don’t understand the logic of this ruling – in my mind the players who are in most danger of burnout are from 19-22.

Would there be an appetite for this rule to be changed and if so is it even possible to have it changed?

Surely a better idea would be to change th structure of your laocal championshis so there ar emore matches spread throughout the year.

The burnout issue is the biggest non issue going as there are too few matches being played by GAA players not too many.It's a rule brought in for a tiny minority of players.

eigrod

Saint Sonner wrote: »

The new rule regarding U-17 not being able to play adult football is a very harsh rule on players and smaller clubs. Does anyone else feel that this is a foolish rule being imposed?

Will clubs be able to field all teams without them? I know in our club every now and then we produce 2/3 17 year olds that get game time to progress their development and it also helps out making sure we have enough for a squad with two teams.

I think it also hinders the players as from what I know we have a few decent minors but the squad as a whole would not be that strong and aren’t expected to qualify for playoffs (hopefully they will) this would then leave it that our decent 17 year olds season would be finished by end of April.

I would be worried that we could lose these lads to other sports or worst still – if they’re idle they could end up trying out the social life and lose their interest in football.

I honestly don’t understand the logic of this ruling – in my mind the players who are in most danger of burnout are from 19-22.

Would there be an appetite for this rule to be changed and if so is it even possible to have it changed?

I agree and it is/will be a problem for many clubs who were already struggling for numbers.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The burnout issue is the biggest non issue going as there are too few matches being played by GAA players not too many.It's a rule brought in for a tiny minority of players.

Yes, for some players, No, for many others. Some club players have far too few games, but other players can be playing hurling & football, U21 and adult, college and club, county and club and even divisional teams which is the crux of the problem.

Saint Sonner

All competitions have to be scheduled as well as allowing for exams - the competitions will run for a good part of the season but only for the minority elite clubs who make it to SF & F of grades.

I still think its unfair not to let 17 year olds play at adult level.

The duty of care lies with the clubs and their managers to determine if a lad of 17 is capable of playing adult football of some description - most are IMO and they enjoy it!

lalababa

Burnout can happen at any age BUT the most vunerable age is 17, as a good player might be playing on 7 different teams in 20 different compeditions. If a club wants to win a game and they think they might do it by putting on a 17 yr. old then they will. They won't ask them how many games they played in the week or did they get a knock here or there.
I played senior when I was 15 and I did not apprieciate a 20st hairy thirtysomething flattening me, but sure whatharm:rolleyes:

big_drive

I'm in favour of the rule myself despite being from a smaller club. we will suffer this year in particular as we have 2 really good 17 year olds. But I think long term its a good move

Prop Joe

big_drive wrote: »

I'm in favour of the rule myself despite being from a smaller club. we will suffer this year in particular as we have 2 really good 17 year olds. But I think long term its a good move

Likewise i'm from a small club but we knew this rule was coming in and some of the older lads said they would stay on for another year until the young lads come of age.

I fully support this rule 1000%

Saint Sonner

I'd be worried that we could lose some lads to sports which gives them regular games.

Daft rule IMO.

I played my first adult game at 16 against whats commonly knowm around our way as a hatchetman of about 40 years of age.

Didn't harm do me no!!!

Saint Sonner

I'd be worried that we could lose some lads to sports which gives them regular games.

Daft rule IMO.

I played my first adult game at 16 against whats commonly knowm around our way as a hatchetman of about 40 years of age.

Didn't harm do me no!!!

munchkin_utd

....

munchkin_utd

to be honest, if you need games for young lads, then have games for the young lads.

I remember playing heaps of games u14 and u16 but cannot remember playing almost any minor games at all (U21 was a flat knockout and also cannot remember playing shag all there either) which kindof indicates that the problem to have games is not whether someone over 16 can play in senior but that you need more minor and U21 games

But, fair play to the ineptness of Cavan county board, and my club (tail end of automatically picked 30something wonder generation) that the lack of regular games once you were over 16 that meant I had no ties to the club or home meaning emigrating was way easier than for some lad who had the prospects on missing out on heaps of football and wouldnt want to let his team down.

Figsy32

Saint Sonner wrote: »

I'd be worried that we could lose some lads to sports which gives them regular games.

Daft rule IMO.

I played my first adult game at 16 against whats commonly knowm around our way as a hatchetman of about 40 years of age.

Didn't harm do me no!!!

I don't even think it's as much to do with playing against older fellas as it is to do with training/even more matches.

If a fella is 17 and good enough to play club senior football he likely plays minor, 21s, school football and then senior club football. He could very well have intercounty on top of that. Plus if you're in an area like mine he's probably playing minor, 21 and schools hurling.

That's a lot of teams and a hell of a lot training which leads to burn out. Each of those teams is training at least once, probably twice a week as well as matches.

It's easy to say "once they're managed properly they'll be fine" but in the vast vast majority of cases they're not managed well. Every coach wants a piece of them and thinks it's their team thats most important and the other teams that should miss out. People play through injuries, over train and get hurt.

Waiting an extra year to play senior football isn't going to do them any harm.

Saint Sonner

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Saint Sonner

That's the attitude I hate within the GAA - Figsy your talking about the elite minority in the age group.

I'm talking about the majority of lads who will go without football/hurling at this age due to the rule for the elite.

PS Also Whilst dual players exist they are also in the minority

Figsy32

Saint Sonner wrote: »

That's the attitude I hate within the GAA - Figsy your talking about the elite minority in the age group.

I'm talking about the majority of lads who will go without football/hurling at this age due to the rule for the elite.

PS Also Whilst dual players exist they are also in the minority

I'm talking about protecting those kids, absolutely. But there's plenty of other ways to give people games than by 17 year olds playing adult levels. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

The best solution, if the aim is to provide games, is to ensure that there is a substantial amount of games at minor. Establish a county league or introduce a championship format that provides more games if there isn't enough. That provides games for every 17 year old regardless of their level and not just the 1 or 2 who are good enough to step up to senior level.

I would suggest abolishing the rule is also only helping the elite. There isn't a huge amount of 17 year olds that are actually good enough to play adult club football or hurling.

There's no reason why you can't provide plenty of games at the appropriate age level without the need to risk burning out young players.

Saint Sonner

I'm not actually talking about the elite players who are good enough to play for adult senior (1st team) at club.

I'm talking about the rural clubs who have at least a second string adult team - From within my own county I would know alot of clubs would use this to develop the next set of lads after the elite 17 year olds and it also helps the club give older lads who aren't good enough for 1st team a chance to play as the manager can use these lads to make sure they have enough for games.

I just think the ruling is a hindrance maybe I'm on my own on that.

Saint Sonner

I'm not actually talking about the elite players who are good enough to play for adult senior (1st team) at club.

I'm talking about the rural clubs who have at least a second string adult team - From within my own county I would know alot of clubs would use this to develop the next set of lads after the elite 17 year olds and it also helps the club give older lads who aren't good enough for 1st team a chance to play as the manager can use these lads to make sure they have enough for games.

I just think the ruling is a hindrance maybe I'm on my own on that.

nice_guy80

Our 17 years olds might get 6 or 7 games this year

They would always have got another 6 or 7 junior league games, usually from the bench.

We're going to bring a motion to change this again

Prop Joe

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Our 17 years olds might get 6 or 7 games this year

They would always have got another 6 or 7 junior league games, usually from the bench.

We're going to bring a motion to change this again

In Kerry 17 year olds will play in 6/7 minor league games,They will play schools football and then they will play junior football,If they cannot make the senior panel.

A 16 year old will play 6/7 minor games,Schools football plus a new u17 summer league,That will give him plenty football throughout the year.

That is not including any championship games at minor,U17 or u21

nice_guy80

Prop Joe wrote: »

In Kerry 17 year olds will play in 6/7 minor league games,They will play schools football and then they will play junior football,If they cannot make the senior panel.

A 16 year old will play 6/7 minor games,Schools football plus a new u17 summer league,That will give him plenty football throughout the year.

That is not including any championship games at minor,U17 or u21

Well done to Kerry.
Most of our minors wouldn't be good enough to make a school team.
No U17 grade here I'm afraid

Keano

When does this kick in, I know it was talked about but I really thought there would be more about it in the mainstream media.

Saint Sonner

It kicked in from start of the year - It really does put pressure on clubs and disappoints players!

bruschi

Saint Sonner wrote: »

It kicked in from start of the year - It really does put pressure on clubs and disappoints players!

no it doesnt, on either count. I've said it before on here, but if clubs are under pressure to field a team because 17 year olds cant play, then there is something far bigger wrong with the club. Just because it happened years ago doesnt make it right. I played adult level when 15. I wouldnt dare dream now of sending out anyone that young to play adult level. Managers in general dont give a crap how many teams you are on or how many games you play, they are selfish and only looking out for themselves and their particular team.

And I dont see how it disappoints players either. It's for players just out of juvenile. They can play U21 and minor. And I know you think school county or even dual players are a minority, but I know where I am, that is far from the case. I'm over our minors this year(hurling and football), and pretty much all of the 17s on the team are with at least 4 other teams, whether that is school, county or U21. 3 of them are on each of those, at football and hurling. So they are with 8 different teams, just in GAA.

If they arent getting enough games at minor, it is the county boards fault. Our lads at 17 will be playing a minimum of 18 club minor games this year. That does not include challenge games, school, county or U21. Or any other sport they play in.

If a club cant survive for one year of age group players, or if a player isnt able to develop because he missed out on one year of adult games when 16/17, then there are more problems than just an age restriction.

Saint Sonner

Bruschi I can sense your passion but just to give you my opinion again and to address some of your points:

I wouldn't dream of sending out a 15 year old either

If managers don't give a **** about 17 year olds there is a wider problem with society and with the training of managers (coaching courses etc.)

I can tell you that recently a few lads in my club had played and trained hard with their school that week and the manager only used them in a minor match for 20-30 mins in fear of them being too tired etc.

I can only give you the view point on what happens in my county and I don't know how other counties conduct affairs but I would say my county is pretty standard and are doing their best to accommodate all competitions. With saying this over half of our minors will be finished with football by end of April not counting U21 competition which is the one competition which is wedged in somewhere unusual in the year with possibly only one game with lots of teams pulling out of it altogether.

I see you have pointed out about the number of teams your lads will be playing for and that's great as it looks like the majority in your club - but I honestly believe if you look at Ireland as a whole this type of player would be a minority.

Also would I be right in thinking that by the end of Feb possibly Mar the majority of 17 year old lads in Ireland will be out of schools competitions with only the elite teams left?

Saint Sonner

Bruschi I can sense your passion but just to give you my opinion again and to address some of your points:

I wouldn't dream of sending out a 15 year old either

If managers don't give a **** about 17 year olds there is a wider problem with society and with the training of managers (coaching courses etc.)

I can tell you that recently a few lads in my club had played and trained hard with their school that week and the manager only used them in a minor match for 20-30 mins in fear of them being too tired etc.

I can only give you the view point on what happens in my county and I don't know how other counties conduct affairs but I would say my county is pretty standard and are doing their best to accommodate all competitions. With saying this over half of our minors will be finished with football by end of April not counting U21 competition which is the one competition which is wedged in somewhere unusual in the year with possibly only one game with lots of teams pulling out of it altogether.

I see you have pointed out about the number of teams your lads will be playing for and that's great as it looks like the majority in your club - but I honestly believe if you look at Ireland as a whole this type of player would be a minority.

Also would I be right in thinking that by the end of Feb possibly Mar the majority of 17 year old lads in Ireland will be out of schools competitions with only the elite teams left?

bruschi

Saint Sonner wrote: »

Bruschi I can sense your passion but just to give you my opinion again and to address some of your points:

I wouldn't dream of sending out a 15 year old either

If managers don't give a **** about 17 year olds there is a wider problem with society and with the training of managers (coaching courses etc.)

I can tell you that recently a few lads in my club had played and trained hard with their school that week and the manager only used them in a minor match for 20-30 mins in fear of them being too tired etc.

I can only give you the view point on what happens in my county and I don't know how other counties conduct affairs but I would say my county is pretty standard and are doing their best to accommodate all competitions. With saying this over half of our minors will be finished with football by end of April not counting U21 competition which is the one competition which is wedged in somewhere unusual in the year with possibly only one game with lots of teams pulling out of it altogether.

I see you have pointed out about the number of teams your lads will be playing for and that's great as it looks like the majority in your club - but I honestly believe if you look at Ireland as a whole this type of player would be a minority.

Also would I be right in thinking that by the end of Feb possibly Mar the majority of 17 year old lads in Ireland will be out of schools competitions with only the elite teams left?

I think the point about managers not really giving a crap about other teams a player is on is just a general one. It does happen. Often. There was a survey of county minor players conducted as part of this research a while ago, so its not just a case of them introducing this without any backup to it.

Our minor fixtures have just been issued, we have 5/6 games before the county minor fixtures kick in, then a break until after the junior/leaving cert. Then there are 12 games from mid June to the end of August and finals in September as they go back to school.

You are right, school comps will be over for the majority soon, but as our calendar works, there is little room for scope. School games from September to Feb/March and club games from March to August. There are no long defined breaks bar exams, so they would be part of teams at all times of the year in the vast majority of cases.

A dual player where I am is by far the majority. And school players would constitute a large portion too with county players obviously being the minority.

nice_guy80

For a club like ours, who only got the underage section back up and running 6/7 years ago, this was meant to be the first proper crop of players coming through to our adult team.
even though they are only turning 17, they would be among the best hurlers in the club already.

so to be denied the chance to play them for a full year, is a pain. even if only for our second team.

yes it affects other clubs, but considering the lack of players coming through to minor in our club for the past 10 years, the arrival of these young lads was keeping a lot of older lads interested, knowing these lads were on the way and looking forward to playing with them.

nice_guy80

For a club like ours, who only got the underage section back up and running 6/7 years ago, this was meant to be the first proper crop of players coming through to our adult team.
even though they are only turning 17, they would be among the best hurlers in the club already.

so to be denied the chance to play them for a full year, is a pain. even if only for our second team.

yes it affects other clubs, but considering the lack of players coming through to minor in our club for the past 10 years, the arrival of these young lads was keeping a lot of older lads interested, knowing these lads were on the way and looking forward to playing with them.

eigrod

bruschi wrote: »

no it doesnt, on either count. I've said it before on here, but if clubs are under pressure to field a team because 17 year olds cant play, then there is something far bigger wrong with the club. Just because it happened years ago doesnt make it right. I played adult level when 15. I wouldnt dare dream now of sending out anyone that young to play adult level. Managers in general dont give a crap how many teams you are on or how many games you play, they are selfish and only looking out for themselves and their particular team.

And I dont see how it disappoints players either. It's for players just out of juvenile. They can play U21 and minor. And I know you think school county or even dual players are a minority, but I know where I am, that is far from the case. I'm over our minors this year(hurling and football), and pretty much all of the 17s on the team are with at least 4 other teams, whether that is school, county or U21. 3 of them are on each of those, at football and hurling. So they are with 8 different teams, just in GAA.

If they arent getting enough games at minor, it is the county boards fault. Our lads at 17 will be playing a minimum of 18 club minor games this year. That does not include challenge games, school, county or U21. Or any other sport they play in.

If a club cant survive for one year of age group players, or if a player isnt able to develop because he missed out on one year of adult games when 16/17, then there are more problems than just an age restriction.

In Wicklow, there is no U21 club Hurling, a maximum of 4 or 5 games in minor hurling league/championship and no schools competition.

In 2016, a 17 year old hurler in Wicklow will get 3 or 4 games max.

Junior hurling was the 17 year olds only opportunity to get decent amount of game time.

Saint Sonner

eigrod - I think that is the extreme case which is unfortunate but I do think if you took bruschi case on one extreme and yours on the other most players would fall closer to the scenario which you have mentioned which is unfair.

IMO the majority of 17yo lads who will have the opportunity to play adult football/hurling will do so in the less serious comps like junior grades/reserve grades and not as a key members so will therefore not play every minute of every game.

Ask any 17yo what he would like? I remember when I was that age - all I wanted was games nothing else would do!

Nice_guy it sounds like it is an issue in your club and very disheartening considering you've been nurturing these players for a while - I certainly hope none of the lads lose interest when they see they can play a game of soccer every week!

Saint Sonner

eigrod - I think that is the extreme case which is unfortunate but I do think if you took bruschi case on one extreme and yours on the other most players would fall closer to the scenario which you have mentioned which is unfair.

IMO the majority of 17yo lads who will have the opportunity to play adult football/hurling will do so in the less serious comps like junior grades/reserve grades and not as a key members so will therefore not play every minute of every game.

Ask any 17yo what he would like? I remember when I was that age - all I wanted was games nothing else would do!

Nice_guy it sounds like it is an issue in your club and very disheartening considering you've been nurturing these players for a while - I certainly hope none of the lads lose interest when they see they can play a game of soccer every week!