What shotgun to get? and is there a certain amount of guns you can licence before the

The Red Lad

Hi guys looking for advice into what shotgun to buy between under and over or a repeater or a pump action I'd love a pump action but do wonder would it be awkward as I hope to get into a bit of clay shooting nothing major just me and a few of my shooting buddy's for a bit of fun would a repeater or double barrel be more suitable ? It would just be for game birds and crows ect with a small bit of clay shooting.

Also I'm a big rifle shooter and am licenced on a .22 and a .223 along with my father's single barrel shotgun would I have trouble getting licemced on a 4th gun owning 3 guns.

I have a safe over 400 acres of written farmers permission and have never got in hassle over any of my other firearms I'm also hoping on joining a gun club at some stage if I get licenced on my own shotgun

Any help or opinions with this ?

Cass

The Red Lad wrote: »

......... I'd love a pump action but do wonder would it be awkward as I hope to get into a bit of clay shooting nothing major just me and a few of my shooting buddy's for a bit of fun would a repeater or double barrel be more suitable ?

Never understood the appeal of a pump action. Holds no more than a semi auto, but has more work. Holds more than an over under but not as good (or easy should i say) to start and continue shooting with at clays, etc.

If it were me i'd look towards a semi auto. Three shots, no manual cycling, quick follow up shots, lower recoil, etc. Can be used as well as an O/U for clays (don't mind the hype about them not being allowed on clay ranges).

Also I'm a big rifle shooter and am licenced on a .22 and a .223 along with my father's single barrel shotgun would I have trouble getting licemced on a 4th gun owning 3 guns.

Have you considered doing a substitution from the license you have on your Father's gun to the new one? Save yourself a few bob and some time not to mention possibly going up a security level.

FISMA.

The Red Lad wrote: »

I'd love a pump action

Life's too short! Buy one for St. Valentine's Day. Nothing bad to say about the Rem 870 or Mossberg 500.

Would be nice to pick up a Winchester 897 - aka "the trench sweeper." Lacking a trigger disconnector, it allowed the user to "slam-fire." Lot's of fun to shoot, however, not likely to find in Eire

The Red Lad wrote: »

I hope to get into a bit of clay shooting

O/U would be nice for clays. A dedicated clay gun, like the Citori, would be ideal. However, a field o/u like the Baikal IZH-27 would do just well.

The Red Lad wrote: »

It would just be for game birds and crows ect with a small bit of clay shooting.

For birds, the sxs is often the gun of choice.

Do you shoot any waterfowl? If so, a semi might be the way to go. Some say that third shot is handy to have. Not sure why...:rolleyes:

You may wish to shop by price if there's no clear winner. Or, get out and shoulder a few, you just may find one that fits you.

Outside of Eire, pumps are preferred because: (1) reloading light loads will not cause cycling problems, (2) cheaper price, (3) reliability, and (4) psychological deterrent.

SureHowBad

I have had and have over the years: over and unders, side by sides, pumps and semi autos, and, in my opinion, for what you want, a semi auto would be ideal. They are an excellent all round shotgun. I have been using a Beretta A300 Outlander for the past few years, which is the entry level beretta semi, and I can't fault it. I have about 30,000 rounds through mine, everything from 24g skeet to 50g magnums, and it has NEVER missed a beat! I've shot everything from pigeons, crows, ducks, pheasants, woodcock, foxes and clays. I paid about 900 euro as new but it was well worth it. As far as negatives for the semi auto, it does require more cleaning and, you have to be more safety concious as you can't break it open to show it is safe. That's my 2 cents....

dazed+confused

SureHowBad wrote: »

I have had and have over the years: over and unders, side by sides, pumps and semi autos, and, in my opinion, for what you want, a semi auto would be ideal. They are an excellent all round shotgun. I have been using a Beretta A300 Outlander for the past few years, which is the entry level beretta semi, and I can't fault it. I have about 30,000 rounds through mine, everything from 24g skeet to 50g magnums, and it has NEVER missed a beat! I've shot everything from pigeons, crows, ducks, pheasants, woodcock, foxes and clays. I paid about 900 euro as new but it was well worth it. As far as negatives for the semi auto, it does require more cleaning and, you have to be more safety concious as you can't break it open to show it is safe. That's my 2 cents....

I have had a similar collection and now shoot with a semi, a Beretta AL 391. I couldn't recommend them enough and I do everything with mine. The only time it stays at home is when I'm going to a driven shoot. I've never been told that they're banned but semi-autos and pumps are extremely unwelcome at any shoot I've ever been to. Something to keep in mind if you were planning to do a driven shoot in the future.

goz83

dazed+confused wrote: »

I have had a similar collection and now shoot with a semi, a Beretta AL 391. I couldn't recommend them enough and I do everything with mine. The only time it stays at home is when I'm going to a driven shoot. I've never been told that they're banned but semi-autos and pumps are extremely unwelcome at any shoot I've ever been to. Something to keep in mind if you were planning to do a driven shoot in the future.

Why would this be? Visual safety, or snobbery, of something else. I ask because I am getting a semi auto and will be using it for some clay range shooting. I don't even know what a "driven shoot" is tbh.

cookimonster

In America semis and pumps are standard with game shooting, here there is something of a throwback to old English style hunting attitudes towards them. It wasn't long ago that even O/U where frowned upon as being uncouth on a shoot. Driven shoots are a form of game bird shooting where lines of individual s known as beaters push birds (pheasant, grouse and duck) towards a line of guns, standing at pegs, each shooter has arcs of fire to ensure safety and sportsmanship.
In relation to shooting terms etc take my advice pick a very rainy day and sit down and watch - Fieldsports Britain & The Shooting Show:D:D::D

Most lads who tout the 'safety issue' with semis and pumps are not familiar with their operation and use. My argument to them is that the same could be said about all bolt action rifles in hunting situations.
I have owned both and it's a pain clearing the 'chamber' at obstacles etc but it becomes secound nature with practice, but unfortunately it will never IMO be as easy and quick as break action guns.
Semis on clay grounds are ok, I too have yet to be stopped, but the draw back is on collecting the empty cartridges and can cause hiccups in the procedures.

clivej

The main problem with pumps and semi's is that the chamber can't be seen to be empty when the bolt is forward.
And that the mag is also empty. So it's easy to have one in the chamber and think it's empty. Happened to me a couple of times, not nice at all. :eek::eek: That's why they are not liked on a clay range.

Had a folding 410 (double barrel with hammers) & single barrel 12g as a young lad and enjoyed them both.

I've had a Mossberg 88 pump and Beretta AL 391 in the past couple of years and liked them both, but sold them on 'cos my type of shooting wasn't so much shotgun hunting (need a dog) or clays.

I now have another Mossberg 88 pump 7+1, 24" barrel with a reflex sight on a restricted license for Gallery type target shooting and going to try the 100y-200y as well this year (all in the UK). It's the gallery shooting that I do most now, stalking in the winter Gallery rest of the year.

Only you can decide what type of shotgun you want, and for the type of shooting you will be doing. U/O or SxS for clays, pump or semi for field hunting. Go try the clay's before you buy the best option.

Grizzly 45

Having grown up with both pump and semi auto and dbbls SXS and O/U.Its up to you what you like to shoot the most and hit things with the best in the long run.

For me it is the pump action and there are many reasons for it.One bing simply reliability and multi function and in the case of Mossberg cheapness. There has got to be a reason most armies around the world still use in their shotguns a pump mechanism,and the simple reason it will work under any condition from sand to ice to jungle to mud to salt water. and up to now with very few exceptions,mostly the Russian Saiga 12 or Molot 12 most semi autos including the famed Benelli M4 will choke and die. As well as that they will eat any old ratty ammo you might have.Some semis even the milspec designs can be fussy on their diet as some need minimum specific loads to work.

A pump can be easier to fix with hand tools.Years ago I broke the slide rods off a Winchester 1300XTR[POS gun anyway],it was impossible to get a replacement at the time in 1980s Ireland,do my dealer got a machine shop to braxe the parts together.Worked fine until the gun was nicked,and the repair was fundamental in IDing it once it was discoverd by the Gaurds 15 years later..Would have been intresting to see could a semi been repaired like that?

They can be easier to customise by buying a longer or shorter barrel,mag extensions or whatever.Some semis dont have that capability due to their designs.

Lots of people will give you this blah about saftey and being a pain having to unload the gun in its entireity crossing ditches etc,or poor accruacy.Alot of it is simply because they dont understand how either the semi or pump works.

The obstacle crossing without unloading the gun totally.
1]SAFTEY ON
2] RACK back the pump [or bolt if it is a semi],CLEAR the chamber of the shell on the lifter. Thats it!
It will take four steps to fire the gun unintentionally or intentionally from there. This applies for semis too.Once they are out of battery with the bolt back, the chamber clear,and saftey on they are as safe as any double. Only time you really need to unload totally as it is good manners is at the end of the drive or before you go on the clay line

Bad accuruacy
Most who complain of this are actually shooting the pump utterly wrong.They are dismounting from the gun to cycle the action!! DONT DO THIS! Work the slide with the gun mounted on your shoulder.Ever see a cowboy dismounting his Winchester to work the action?? So why do it with a pump.Once you get used to this trombone action they can be as fast as any semi.

Unliked at clay ranges or shoots.
Snobbishness and ideals of a long gone era but still espoused by chacters who would make fine extras in a Dowtown Abbey episode.:p Or as above not knowing how to tell if a pump or semi is safe or not.

Remember Saftey ON, Slide or bolt BACK,Shell lifter CLEAR,and if you want to be belt and braces ,stick a chamber flag in there.

Only disadavantage to the pump is and hopefully not a regular occurance in your shooting life. Very hard to operate one handed!!.As an FBI agent found out after being shot in the shoulder in a shootout in Miami in the 1980s.[He still managed it rather awkwardly by putting the gun between his knees and jacking the slide with his good arm then firing single handed from cover.]

And yes there are still a few" Trench Brooms" knocking about our little country.They are restricted firearms because of the barrel length and you will be offering lottery win money to the dealers and owners as they are historical guns and wont be shot that often.However if you did want one really badly.Norinco in China makes a good copy of them,without the "slam fire " feature unfortuneatly.:P
Bottom line is.Go away and try all and sundry in shotguns and find one that suits you the best be it double barel,pump semi,lever action,bolt action. Enjoy!:)

J.R.

I've also had SxS, O/U, pump action & semi-auto shotguns over the years. At present I've a semi & o/u......my favourite being the semi.

I've been on many clay shoots ...semi or pump never not allowed....but have been at a few where the pump was accepted but frowned upon...never bothered returning to those places.

I was also on a driven shoot & definitely only SxS and O/U allowed... ..no semi or pump under any circumstances. and they also had to be sleeved in a gun cover until at the pegs and also when walking between pegs.

A huge advantage of the semi and pump is when hide shooting at pigeon, crows or duck.

It is very easy to reload these while scanning the skies...just keep sliding shells up the bottom. No breaking barrels in confined spaces,,,barrel getting caught up in the net etc.

Nekarsulm

In walked up shooting, a P/A is, I believe, safer than U/O or S/S. You can ramble away to your heart's delight wih two or three shells in the magazine and the chamber empty. If prey or vermin is encountered you will have the gun loaded and ready to fire by the time it reaches your shoulder. Bit heavier than a double barrel to carry for hours but that's the only downside. (possibly another downside is only one choke )

clivej

Nekarsulm wrote: »

In walked up shooting, a P/A is, I believe, safer than U/O or S/S. You can ramble away to your heart's delight with two or three shells in the magazine and the chamber empty. If prey or vermin is encountered you will have the gun loaded and ready to fire by the time it reaches your shoulder. Hit heavier than a double barrel to carry for hours but that's the only downside.

Unrestricted license allows for total of 3 shells, that's equates to two in the mag and one in the chamber.

Whereas my restricted SG license allows for 7 in the mag and 1 in the chamber . Very heavy when all loaded up. But then I only use it for target shooting out too 200y in the UK.

If hunting game you are ONLY allowed 2 + 1 whilst in the field.

Nekarsulm

clivej wrote: »

Unrestricted license allows for total of 3 shells, that's equates to two in the mag and one in the chamber.

Whereas my restricted SG license allows for 7 in the mag and 1 in the chamber . Very heavy when all loaded up. But then I only use it for target shooting out too 200y in the UK.

If hunting game you are ONLY allowed 2 + 1 whilst in the field.

Really?
I was under the impression that the lawful magazine capacity was 3.
Obviously when you chamber the first one, then your mag holds 2....

barnaman

Unrestricted shotgun is "..shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges.."
So as Clive says it 2 in mag and 1 in chamber. If mag can hold more its restricted.

Grizzly 45

Nekarsulm wrote: »

. Bit heavier than a double barrel to carry for hours but that's the only downside. (possibly another downside is only one choke )

Hand adjustable Poly chokes are a marvelleous invention.:D

rhino1

Slightly Off topic ,Are poly chokes available in Ireland?

Nekarsulm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Hand adjustable Poly chokes are a marvelleous invention.:D

My first pump had a "C-lecT " collet choke on it. Woefull thing. Between full and open, centre of pattern moved nearly 3 feet from point of aim.
It was silver soldered on, so I finally got fed up and heated it till the solder melted and removed it.

Grizzly 45

rhino1 wrote: »

Slightly Off topic ,Are poly chokes available in Ireland?

Nope,but ASFIK they do ship from CONUS and have some Eu dealers.

Grizzly 45

Nekarsulm wrote: »

My first pump had a "C-lecT " collet choke on it. Woefull thing. Between full and open, centre of pattern moved nearly 3 feet from point of aim.
It was silver soldered on, so I finally got fed up and heated it till the solder melted and removed it.

Mossberg 500??:)

Nekarsulm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Mossberg 500??:)

Yep! Not quite a 500, it was a "New Haven" which was probably made for Sears Roebuck or some such store. Certainly the barrel from a more modern 500 didn't fit, but the trigger group was the same. Can't remember if it had only one action bar of not.

Grizzly 45

Thats an old yoke all right.They quit making them around the mid 1960's from around the early 60's
They were relatively cheap back then too about 25 $ 2nd hand and 50 $new
They were made by Mossberg alright,but it seems to have been a short lived project
Rumour was they were assembled out of the rejects parts bins of Mossberg in the early 60s:)

Nekarsulm

Could be!
It was super smooth to cycle, but I got dazzled by a new "Crown Grade" 500 with the screw in chokes and magna porting etc. Kept both for a few years but then changed the New Haven for an AyA o/u.

ace86

Had a pump for a few yrs a Mossberg camo 500 ah good gun a bit heavy to carry all day after birds ideal for duck shooting and fox drives and the likes, was never a big fan of Repeaters to be honest I thought them to be more dangerous then a pump in my eyes but it depends wat a guy is used to,I have a double barrel 30" sporter now for birds and clays and i'm very happy with it and probably advise You head down that route if its clays and birds are mostly ur interest or wat ur going to be at.

Grizzly 45

Never carried a Remington 870 magnum then?Or a Browning Auto 5? Know the meaning of heavy after a day with one of those.:D

Cass

What, if anything, did ya go for/do?

blackpearl

had the autos for game shooting perfare over and under always easy to check for barrel blockage