Rounding off 1 & 2 Cents Rip off

RCSATELLITES

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

There seems to be a huge confusion by both customers/general public & many retailers on this rounding.

I run a shop and basically it's nothing to do with rounding the prices nor is it to do with rounding the total due. The only thing that is meant to be rounded is the change due back to the customer. If you are due back 3c change for example, then your change is rounded up to 5c. If your change due back is 11c then it's 10c due back. this doesn't apply to any card transactions and if €5.99 is the total due & you are paying by card then €5.99 is what is to be charged to that card. If €5.99 is what the total of your goods are if paying by cash, then €5.99 is what's due, not €6!

I have queried all of this with rounding.ie and it was confirmed to me by them that it is any change due that is rounded up or down. It amazes me how many shops are not doing this & seem to have totally misinterpreted it. Retailers making these mistakes are causing too much confusion and making people think they are being ripped off. There wasn't enough training info sent out either, we received very little, which was why I had to query it so that we understood it in my shop.

If 1c is due back in Change to my customer I am also obliged to ask them if they would like their change! Oh and 1 & 2c coins are not going anywhere in the foreseeable future as also confirmed by the central bank. And the banks still give them to retailers for their coin float!

Hope that helps, but feel free to see www.rounding.ie if you don't believe me!

Hi, thanks for taking the time to write this. I just have one question and want your thought on it. In Lidl yesterday i bought two items, it added up to €1.18. But on their till where it shows the customer the amount, it was shown as €1.20. Do you think this is correct? If its the change that is round off then why are they showing the total at €1.20 instead of the actual €1.18.

rubadub

Tesco are doing it alright, from bargain alerts

phill106 wrote: »

Spotted a little snack size pack of malteasers, twix and milkyways with christmas packaging on it.
Scanned at 1 cent.
To add insult to injury, got it free due to tescos rounding policy

Penny Tration

My local newsagent is rounding to the nearest 5c for them.

That is, I bought something that came to 1.92. Rather than give me 10 cent change, they gave me 5.

I bought something else costing 3.96. Rather than give me 5 cent change from 4 euro, they gave me zero, saying they have to round down all the time :pac:

ohnonotgmail

Penny Tration wrote: »

My local newsagent is rounding to the nearest 5c for them.

That is, I bought something that came to 1.92. Rather than give me 10 cent change, they gave me 5.

I bought something else costing 3.96. Rather than give me 5 cent change from 4 euro, they gave me zero, saying they have to round down all the time :pac:

tell them they are a bunch of robbing liars and that you want the proper change.

endacl

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

tell them they are a bunch of robbing liars and that you want the proper change.

Absolutely. I've lost nearly 50c since this craic started. That's enough to make a whole rapper. Rip off Ireland owes me a rapper!

:mad:

Funniest indignant thread in ages. Keep it coming!

Ave Sodalis

RCSATELLITES wrote:

Yes the cashiers do need to be taught how to do it, unfortunately not everybody is as smart as you, hence why they are cashiers.

Ironically, this is one of the most idiotic things I've ever read.

Penny Tration wrote:

I bought something else costing 3.96. Rather than give me 5 cent change from 4 euro, they gave me zero, saying they have to round down all the time

Well they're wrong. 1c and 2c round down, 3c and 4c round up, 6c and 7c round down, 8c and 9c round up. This is how the rounding works and anyone/anywhere doing it differently are doing it wrong and should be challenged on it.

VincePP

Like many, I'm reading this and laughing out loud at how affected some people get overa couple of cent.

Do they realise that they are getting worked up on something that is so unbelievably inconsequential in the grand scheme of things?

If i dropped a 5c coin, i wouldn't be arsed to exert the energy to pick it up - yet some exert anger and frustration over ONE cent.

Surely your lives are not that empty of slightly more pertinent issues?

But sure in the name of comedy, keep the indignation coming.

Ciarrai76

Just to clarify again that 1 & 2c coins are not going out of circulation, nor have they stopped minting them. I had this clarified again by the central bank! Copy of this below!

'Over the past 13 years the Central Bank of Ireland has issued over 1.3 billion 1 cent and 1.1 billion two cent coins in Ireland. This is three times the Eurosystem per capita average. We work closely with industry partners to ensure an efficient and effective payments system, including a sufficient supply of euro coin in the market. We will continue to mint 1 cent and 2 cent euro coin to meet this supply need but due to the significant volumes of coin already issued to the Irish market, coupled with the introduction of voluntary rounding in October 2015, the volumes produced are likely to be significantly lower than in previous years.'

So there you have it!

Penny Tration

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

tell them they are a bunch of robbing liars and that you want the proper change.

Not the woman on the till's fault, her boss told her they must always round down, so I'm not gonna say she's a robbing liar!

It's a few cent, so I don't care, just found it funny

wardides

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Hi, thanks for taking the time to write this. I just have one question and want your thought on it. In Lidl yesterday i bought two items, it added up to €1.18. But on their till where it shows the customer the amount, it was shown as €1.20. Do you think this is correct? If its the change that is round off then why are they showing the total at €1.20 instead of the actual €1.18.

Pretty sure I'm able to answer this one. When it comes to Discounters (ALdi & Lidl) their systems will already have been developed with the "rounding" method built in. As it's already implemented in several European countries (Netherlands, Germany etc), and this is where the discounters originated from & hold the majority of their business, it was effortless to source this system throughout Ireland straight away. Saves cashiers having to work it out as some might have to in a smaller independent store.

Not sure where this leaves card payments however. I'd assume if chosen to pay card you just pay the normal amount, whether it shows up on screen or not.

It's like the ALDI short change thread all over again. People need to calm down. It shouldn't even need to be discussed.

Ciarrai76

wardides wrote: »

Pretty sure I'm able to answer this one. When it comes to Discounters (ALdi & Lidl) their systems will already have been developed with the "rounding" method built in. As it's already implemented in several European countries (Netherlands, Germany etc), and this is where the discounters originated from & hold the majority of their business, it was effortless to source this system throughout Ireland straight away. Saves cashiers having to work it out as some might have to in a smaller independent store.

Not sure where this leaves card payments however. I'd assume if chosen to pay card you just pay the normal amount, whether it shows up on screen or not.

It's like the ALDI short change thread all over again. People need to calm down. It shouldn't even need to be discussed.

Rounding doesn't apply to card payments. The total price of the goods is what goes on the card. Its only change due that gets rounded.

wardides

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

Rounding doesn't apply to card payments. The total price of the goods is what goes on the card. Its only change due that gets rounded.

I know how it works. I was referring to card payments through discounters where the system automatically rounds up the value.

gobo99

For the people who are worried about loosing a few cent heres a surefire get rich quick plan!


If the amount you're being charged ends in 1,2,6,or 7 you should NOT give the exact amount. Your change will be rounded up and you will gain a cent or two in your change.

If the amount you're being charged ends in 3,4,7or 8, you should try give the exact amount. If you are getting no change then your change can't be rounded down and you will gain a cent or two.

ohnonotgmail

gobo99 wrote: »

For the people who are worried about loosing a few cent heres a surefire get rich quick plan!


If the amount you're being charged ends in 1,2,6,or 7 you should NOT give the exact amount. Your change will be rounded up and you will gain a cent or two in your change.

If the amount you're being charged ends in 3,4,7or 8, you should try give the exact amount. If you are getting no change then your change can't be rounded down and you will gain a cent or two.

your attempt at sarcasm has been a failure. It has been well covered already how this is supposed to work. the problem is how it has been implemented by retailers.

Ciarrai76

wardides wrote: »

I know how it works. I was referring to card payments through discounters where the system automatically rounds up the value.

They are not meant to round the total price. I don't understand why retailers are doing this. All the info sent to is by the central bank clearly stated it was only change to be rounded & not total price. Especially not for card payments.

Ciarrai76

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Hi, thanks for taking the time to write this. I just have one question and want your thought on it. In Lidl yesterday i bought two items, it added up to €1.18. But on their till where it shows the customer the amount, it was shown as €1.20. Do you think this is correct? If its the change that is round off then why are they showing the total at €1.20 instead of the actual €1.18.

I don't understand why any retailer is doing this. They appear to making up their own rules. We were all sent the same training documents & signs for shops on how it works. Their website is also very clear, yet some retailers seem to totally misunderstand how bit works!

sconhome

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

I don't understand why any retailer is doing this. They appear to making up their own rules. We were all sent the same training documents & signs for shops on how it works. Their website is also very clear, yet some retailers seem to totally misunderstand how bit works!

I think this may be down to the POS system.

I know with my own system and just tried it there to be sure. If I take a €1.44 item and go to tender window under <Cash> it rounds the amount to €1.45 or <Card> stays at €1.44.

However, if in this example you handed me €1.43 in cash there is no shortfall in the till, it accepts the €1.43 as payment in full similarly if you handed me €1.47 in change there would be no change due on the system.

wardides

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

They are not meant to round the total price. I don't understand why retailers are doing this. All the info sent to is by the central bank clearly stated it was only change to be rounded & not total price. Especially not for card payments.

Rounding the total price is virtually the exact same as rounding the total change.

Price of shopping is 11.33. Round it up to 11.35, give cashier €12, receive 65c change back.

Price of shopping is 11.33. Total value left as is, give cashier €12, receive 67c back in change, which gets rounded down to 65c in change.

Ciarrai76

VincePP wrote: »

Like many, I'm reading this and laughing out loud at how affected some people get overa couple of cent.

Do they realise that they are getting worked up on something that is so unbelievably inconsequential in the grand scheme of things?

If i dropped a 5c coin, i wouldn't be arsed to exert the energy to pick it up - yet some exert anger and frustration over ONE cent.

Surely your lives are not that empty of slightly more pertinent issues?

But sure in the name of comedy, keep the indignation coming.

Not really getting the point of the thread are you? Its not about losing a cent here or there, its about how so many retailers are making up their own rules compared to how the Central Bank actually set it out. And so what if someone wants their 1 or 2c? Its their money, let them have it. Not everyone can afford to be so carefree either!

ohnonotgmail

wardides wrote: »

Rounding the total price is virtually the exact same as rounding the total change.

Price of shopping is 11.33. Round it up to 11.35, give cashier €12, receive 65c change back.

Price of shopping is 11.33. Total value left as is, give cashier €12, receive 67c back in change, which gets rounded down to 65c in change.

the problem happens when they start doing this for card transactions as well.

wardides

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the problem happens when they start doing this for card transactions as well.

I'm not sure many are.

To be honest though, even if they were it's hardly a big deal.

ohnonotgmail

wardides wrote: »

I'm not sure many are.

To be honest though, even if they were it's hardly a big deal.

in the scheme of things it isnt a big deal. they should still fix their systems though.

Ciarrai76

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

in the scheme of things it isnt a big deal. they should still fix their systems though.

I wonder have the bigger retailers who have self service tills done it as there is no one to give you change , the self service till has to do it so they programmed it into their tills to do that & therefore all their tills do the same.

sconhome

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the problem happens when they start doing this for card transactions as well.

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

I wonder have the bigger retailers who have self service tills done it as there is no one to give you change , the self service till has to do it so they programmed it into their tills to do that & therefore all their tills do the same.

The POS systems adjust depending on the payment method chosen.

Rounding should only be happening when you opt to pay in cash rather than card or vouchers.

Ave Sodalis

RCSATELLITES wrote:

Why bother have something displayed at 99cent when it is displayed on the till at 1.00 euro.

Because 3 of them 99c items will round down instead of up.

OP, you're making a mountain of a mole hill here.

RCSATELLITES

sup_dude wrote: »

Because 3 of them 99c items will round down instead of up.

OP, you're making a mountain of a mole hill here.

I don't want to make money from it, I earn my money from working. I want it be be correctly implemented. Is it that hard to do it right?

sconhome

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

So when I go to Lidl and buy a few items and the total comes on their screen at say €20.20 how do I know that the actual price of the items are not €20.18.

The total should be the exact total and then the change rounded off as people can choose to pay the exact amount so it is wrong what Lidl are doing.

Stand with your card in your hand, the cashier will assume you are paying by card you will see the un-rounded total and then you can decide to offer cash and work on the change system you want.

As I suggested earlier the POS system is likely rounding based on the payment method chosen and it is not an operator decision.

RCSATELLITES

wardides wrote: »

Pretty sure I'm able to answer this one. When it comes to Discounters (ALdi & Lidl) their systems will already have been developed with the "rounding" method built in. As it's already implemented in several European countries (Netherlands, Germany etc), and this is where the discounters originated from & hold the majority of their business, it was effortless to source this system throughout Ireland straight away. Saves cashiers having to work it out as some might have to in a smaller independent store.

Not sure where this leaves card payments however. I'd assume if chosen to pay card you just pay the normal amount, whether it shows up on screen or not.

It's like the ALDI short change thread all over again. People need to calm down. It shouldn't even need to be discussed.

Unfortunately your comment is not valid, As Germany has not implemented the rounding system they are actually against it. So please get your facts right before making up things to suit your comments. Yes Aldi and Lidl are German.

Some facts for you.

Price rounding
The €0.01 and €0.02 coins were initially introduced to ensure that the introduction of the euro was not used as an excuse by retailers to heavily round up prices. However, due to the cost of maintaining a circulation of low value coins, by business and the mints, Belgium, Finland, Ireland and the Netherlands round prices to the nearest five cents (Swedish rounding) if paying with cash, while producing only a handful of those coins for collectors, rather than general circulation.[36][37][38] The coins are still legal tender and produced outside these states.[39] Despite this, many shops in the Netherlands refuse to accept them.[citation needed]

The Swedish rounding law in Finland was issued in January 2002 and thus before the coins were put into circulation. The Netherlands followed suit in September 2004, with Belgium making moves to follow in 2005.[39] The Netherlands did so under pressure from retail businesses, which claimed that dealing with 1- and 2-cent coins was too expensive. After a successful experiment in the town of Woerden in May 2004, retailers in the whole of the Netherlands have been permitted to round cash transactions to the nearest five-cent since September 2004.[40] Belgium passed a rounding law in February 2014[38] and Ireland in 2015 after trialling rounding in Wexford in 2013.[37][41]

This is in part due to factors such as rising metal prices: De Nederlandsche Bank calculated it would save $36 million a year by not using the smaller coins. Other countries such as Germany favoured retaining the coins due to their desire for €1.99 prices, which appear more attractive to the consumer than a €2 price.[/U][/U][42] Luxembourg and Malta have also declared they do not wish to remove the coins.[38][43] This is echoed by the European Central Bank itself which supports the coins, stating it allows businesses to calculate prices more exactly to attract consumers, such as €0.99.[44] According to a Eurobarometer survey of EU citizens in 2005, Germans are most sceptical about the removal of the €0.01 and €0.02 coins from complete circulation in the eurozone, but on average there is a majority for their removal (58% for the one cent coin and 52% for the two cent coin in 2005). The Belgians are most supportive of their removal.[45] A similar survey in 2014 found 60% across the Eurozone wanting their removal with over 70% in Italy, the Netherlands, Slovakia and Belgium. Only Portugal and Latvia had a majority in favour of the coins with Germany equally divided between retention and abolition.

Shelflife

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

Just to clarify again that 1 & 2c coins are not going out of circulation, nor have they stopped minting them. I had this clarified again by the central bank! Copy of this below!

'Over the past 13 years the Central Bank of Ireland has issued over 1.3 billion 1 cent and 1.1 billion two cent coins in Ireland. This is three times the Eurosystem per capita average. We work closely with industry partners to ensure an efficient and effective payments system, including a sufficient supply of euro coin in the market. We will continue to mint 1 cent and 2 cent euro coin to meet this supply need but due to the significant volumes of coin already issued to the Irish market, coupled with the introduction of voluntary rounding in October 2015, the volumes produced are likely to be significantly lower than in previous years.'

So there you have it!

Hi Ciarrai76

thats the official line, they are legally obliged to maintain a stock of the currency but i would be very suprised if there was any more minting of the 1c and 2c coins again, there may well be a symbolic minting on occasion to stay within the rules but thats about it.

We started rounding at the beginning, the shop across the road didnt and we were seen as ripping people off, no amount of explaining would appease them.

now we give the exact change when we can and if we run out of 1c or 2c we apply the rounding and if theres any objection we simply round up their change.

It will take a while longer for the coins to get out of circulation because of this but they will eventually disappear.

RCSATELLITES

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/retailers-reject-claims-that-they-are-rounding-up-prices-for-profit-34505703.html

To all the haters, in your face.