Rounding off 1 & 2 Cents Rip off

RCSATELLITES

Ireland's new rounding off system of 1 & 2 cents, was introduced in October. It was introduced similar to taxes in Ireland. Just given a date when it starts, no one has a clue what it is or how to actually round off properly. Lots of shops don't have any signs that they are participating. So one does not know if the shop has given the wrong change or is rounding off.

I have been keeping an eye on my change recently and it seems that the shops are only rounding off when its them that will gain. So let me explain.

Recently in a supermarket I bought a few items, the total came to lets say 39.98 and I gave 40.00, it was rounded off to 40.00 as that's how it works. But the supermarket just got an extra 2 cent.

But the next day I went to the same shop, but the total was 39.97, now that means it should be rounded off to 39.95 and I should get 5 cent. So I will gain or get back my 2 cent. But the cashier gives me 3 cents and not the 5.

Don't know if its only me, but seems that the shops are only rounding off when they are to benefit.

Whats that old saying

Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.

delta_bravo

Pay by card and you'll pay the exact amount

Kenny Logins

My local shop rounds off even when using a card to pay.

RCSATELLITES

Kenny Logins wrote: »

My local shop rounds off even when using a card to pay.

Don't think that's allowed. You should tell them to charge the correct amount.

I know its only 1 or 2 cents that we are talking about, but they add up. Why should the shops be getting more money.

RCSATELLITES

delta_bravo wrote: »

Pay by card and you'll pay the exact amount

Yes I could pay with my debit card, but for small amounts I try not to. And then you get charged 20 cent from the bank just for using card. I lived in the UK recently so I am used to free banking and interest of 3% on my current account without any dirt tax.

L1011

The shop is going to run out of 1 and 2c coins eventually - they are being melted when returned to the Central Bank.

If your debit card is charging you 20c a go - change banks. The UK has got a DIRT equivalent and also requires higher rate tax payers to declare what interest they received for further taxing.

The "look after the pennies" statement is inaccurate in the extreme these days - people often get so worked up and waste so much time over tiny amounts with zero understanding of the opportunity cost of that lost time. Add to that the costs people put themselves under to 'save money', like huge diversions for a few cent off fuel or an offer in a shop that might not even be in stock.

HeidiHeidi

L1011 wrote: »

The shop is going to run out of 1 and 2c coins eventually - they are being melted when returned to the Central Bank.

If your debit card is charging you 20c a go - change banks.

This!

Hollister11

Honestly who has time to worry over a few cent.

ohnonotgmail

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Ireland's new rounding off system of 1 & 2 cents, was introduced in October. It was introduced similar to taxes in Ireland. Just given a date when it starts, no one has a clue what it is or how to actually round off properly. Lots of shops don't have any signs that they are participating. So one does not know if the shop has given the wrong change or is rounding off.

I have been keeping an eye on my change recently and it seems that the shops are only rounding off when its them that will gain. So let me explain.

Recently in a supermarket I bought a few items, the total came to lets say 39.98 and I gave 40.00, it was rounded off to 40.00 as that's how it works. But the supermarket just got an extra 2 cent.

But the next day I went to the same shop, but the total was 39.97, now that means it should be rounded off to 39.95 and I should get 5 cent. So I will gain or get back my 2 cent. But the cashier gives me 3 cents and not the 5.

Don't know if its only me, but seems that the shops are only rounding off when they are to benefit.

Whats that old saying

Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.

did you mention this to the cashier at the time?

jack presley

I was surprised when this was introduced that they didn't get the big supermarkets to buy into this but up until a week ago a way, Dunnes Stores weren't rounding up/ down and Tesco weren't when I was there around Christmas either.

mattaiuseire

If you pay by card they have to charge the exact amount. Make a complaint with the retailer.

If you pay by cash and request your proper change, they have to give you the proper change. This relies on the silent acquiescence of customers who don't know their rights.

Personally I'm not too bothered about it but I can imagine people wanting to save their spare change as it does build up.

Wanderer78

It's your money so fight for it! Charities like coppers!

Del.Monte

Yes OP it's another rip-off. I've noticed quite a few prices recently are pitched to seem inviting e.g. €1.49 but buy two and the price becomes €2.98 and the shop keeps the difference. I'll be asking for exact change on principle from now on.

RCSATELLITES

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yes OP it's another rip-off. I've noticed quite a few prices recently are pitched to seem inviting e.g. €1.49 but buy two and the price becomes €2.98 and the shop keeps the difference. I'll be asking for exact change on principle from now on.

You are right! I just feel that I should not have to ask, they should no the rules. I feel a bit embarrassed to ask for 1 or 2 cents. But then again the shops will probably make thousands from all the 1 and 2 cents they collect.

I had enough yesterday, I went to a shop and the total was 4.47 so That should be rounded off to 4.45 and I will get change of 55 cents. It was the manager serving me by the way. He gave me back 52 cent. So that was just wrong change all together if he was not rounding it should of been 53 cent and if he was rounding it should of been 55 cent. So I told him, every time I bought something in this shop for 1.49 I never received change so today I want to gain 2 cent.

RCSATELLITES

L1011 wrote: »

The shop is going to run out of 1 and 2c coins eventually - they are being melted when returned to the Central Bank.

If your debit card is charging you 20c a go - change banks. The UK has got a DIRT equivalent and also requires higher rate tax payers to declare what interest they received for further taxing.

The "look after the pennies" statement is inaccurate in the extreme these days - people often get so worked up and waste so much time over tiny amounts with zero understanding of the opportunity cost of that lost time. Add to that the costs people put themselves under to 'save money', like huge diversions for a few cent off fuel or an offer in a shop that might not even be in stock.

The shops need to have the right change and If they don't have it then they need to give you 5 cents and they loose out. Please read up on the rules of the new rounding off system.

Please advice what Bank in Ireland is not charging fees for using there service. Don't tell me "well if you have €3,000 in your current account then you dont get charged"

In the UK from April this year they will allow every citizen to earn £1000.00 in interest before charging any tax. That is £1,000 interest.

Also at the moment if you earn less that £10,000 you pay no interest tax, when you earn upto £42,000 then you pay 20% and then 40%. In Ireland it is 41% even when you are on social welfare. As I said I lived in the Uk only recently so I know what it is.

Unfortunately all your comments are wrong :P:P:P:P

Case closed

RCSATELLITES

Hollister11 wrote: »

Honestly who has time to worry over a few cent.

A few cents add up. Especially in a shop where you take in thousands a day.

Maybe the few cents I save can go towards my Irish water bills.

I think the shops make enough money as it is.

RCSATELLITES

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

This!

What bank do you suggest then?

RCSATELLITES

jack presley wrote: »

I was surprised when this was introduced that they didn't get the big supermarkets to buy into this but up until a week ago a way, Dunnes Stores weren't rounding up/ down and Tesco weren't when I was there around Christmas either.

The thing is, nobody is sure who is doing it and who is not doing it. Aldi and Lidl have signs at the cash to say they are doing it. Lidl's cash register works it out so should always be right.

In Aldi the cashier works it out, so not always right actually most of the time its wrong.

Captain Chaos

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

What bank do you suggest then?

I'm with PTSB.

No bank charges for anything and no conditions attached either. I don't need a minimum amount in my account or need to earn a set amount per month either. I'm with them for 16 years now.

It's just free. A bit of research goes along way.

Actually just the annual government stamp duty on my debit and credit card but that's only €5 per year per card.

Shermanator

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

What bank do you suggest then?

AFAIK the banks are now capping the annual charge on the debit card at 5.00 irrespective of amount of usage. so use it any time that rounding up is going to cost you. this way you will at least get a contribution back to help cover the 5 Euor

hardCopy

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

What bank do you suggest then?

KBC or PTSB

PTSB don't care about your balance, fees are waived once you deposit €1500 per month, you can spend it as soon as it lands.

KBC charge a flat €6 per quarter including Debit Card purchases. They do charge for ATM withdrawals though.

L1011

Shermanator wrote: »

AFAIK the banks are now capping the annual charge on the debit card at 5.00 irrespective of amount of usage. so use it any time that rounding up is going to cost you. this way you will at least get a contribution back to help cover the 5 Euor

That's the former lump stamp duty - not their own charges.

L1011

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

The shops need to have the right change and If they don't have it then they need to give you 5 cents and they loose out. Please read up on the rules of the new rounding off system.

I understand it perfectly well, thanks. They're going to have to lose out for the few people who will spend far more than 5c worth of their time arguing and I think everyone is aware of that - no more 1c and 2c coins are being made and those that return to the bank are melted. That is not going to change.

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Unfortunately all your comments are wrong :P:P:P:P

Case closed

Nothing wrong about the coin rounding

Bank of Ireland (the €3000 balance rule) is not the only bank. I never said not charging fees - I said not charging 20c per transaction.

"from April this year" is not now

You've got yourself worked up in to a frenzy here about a few cent.

It won't "add up" to more than a few cent in a year, as all you've got is one shop currently working down its stock of small coins. Most retailers apply the rule consistently and some actually go beyond that - Tesco round down when its in the customers favour but will pay full change if they have it; for instance.

You need to reassess your priorities as well as change bank.

snubbleste

I observed in a Tesco self service,
Item cost 69c
Inserted coins total 87c
Received change 20c

Not sure how that worked. I assume the machine is rounding the change amount, rather than bill amount

RCSATELLITES

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I'm with PTSB.

No bank charges for anything and no conditions attached either. I don't need a minimum amount in my account or need to earn a set amount per month either. I'm with them for 16 years now.

It's just free. A bit of research goes along way.

Actually just the annual government stamp duty on my debit and credit card but that's only €5 per year per card.

That's funny cause I just did research now and this what it says.

"If you don’t lodge €1,500 a month, a €12 quarterly charge will apply"

Shermanator

In Australia the till automatically does the rounding up so it doesn't matter if you pay by card or cash. However, they also round down so I am sure it balances out over time.

RCSATELLITES

Shermanator wrote: »

AFAIK the banks are now capping the annual charge on the debit card at 5.00 irrespective of amount of usage. so use it any time that rounding up is going to cost you. this way you will at least get a contribution back to help cover the 5 Euor

That's the government stamp duty you are talking about not the actual bank charges.

AIB Charges

Automated Transactions €0.20 each
This fee applies to the following transactions:
• Debit Card purchases
• Contactless transactions(1)
• Me2U transactions(1)
• Standing Orders
• Direct Debits

Bank Of Ireland

Automated / Self Service
Transactions - 10c
Standing orders
Direct Debits
365 Phone & Online transactions
Debit card transactions (Point of Sale
& Online)

Ulster Bank

4.00 euro per month

PTSB

12.00 euro quarterly

RCSATELLITES

L1011 wrote: »

I understand it perfectly well, thanks. They're going to have to lose out for the few people who will spend far more than 5c worth of their time arguing and I think everyone is aware of that - no more 1c and 2c coins are being made and those that return to the bank are melted. That is not going to change.




Nothing wrong about the coin rounding

Bank of Ireland (the €3000 balance rule) is not the only bank. I never said not charging fees - I said not charging 20c per transaction.

"from April this year" is not now

You've got yourself worked up in to a frenzy here about a few cent.

It won't "add up" to more than a few cent in a year, as all you've got is one shop currently working down its stock of small coins. Most retailers apply the rule consistently and some actually go beyond that - Tesco round down when its in the customers favour but will pay full change if they have it; for instance.

You need to reassess your priorities as well as change bank.

I like the way you only picked up on a few things, what do you think the fees for the bank are for? To use their services so if they don't charge the 20 cent they still charge the fee so the same thing.

You can't say that the UK has a dirt tax as it does not. It has tax on money earned which is also interest. April is only 2 months away.

I dont mind Rounding off if it is done properly both ways. But unfortunately that is not the case for most of my shopping experiences recently.

Have a look next time you are out and if you can do the maths.

RCSATELLITES

Shermanator wrote: »

In Australia the till automatically does the rounding up so it doesn't matter if you pay by card or cash. However, they also round down so I am sure it balances out over time.

That's the proper way to do it. But unfortunately in Ireland that does not happen, most shops the cashier has to work it out in their head.

Also in Ireland it is

"Participation in rounding is entirely voluntary for both retailers and consumers"

So I have noticed shops only participating when they will gain.

I was told yesterday that it is voluntary when I asked why my change was 2 cent instead of 5 cent. But the same shop rounded the other day when they took 2 cent from me.

L1011

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

I like the way you only picked up on a few things, what do you think the fees for the bank are for? To use their services so if they don't charge the 20 cent they still charge the fee so the same thing.

You can't say that the UK has a dirt tax as it does not. It has tax on money earned which is also interest. April is only 2 months away.

I dont mind Rounding off if it is done properly both ways. But unfortunately that is not the case for most of my shopping experiences recently.

Have a look next time you are out and if you can do the maths.

I picked up on everything relevant.

Cribbing about DIRT when the UK had a direct equivalent when you were there is ridiculous.

I can do the maths, but it appears you can't perform basic logical reasoning.

I'm also pretty sure you're only noticing when you can have a nice little whinge - I've not encountered one retailer acting like you claim let alone the almost all you're claiming

Savman

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

What bank do you suggest then?

https://number26.eu/ie/

NIMAN

Best thing done in a long time. Fair play to Ireland for being progressive in this.

I watched for a week or so when it started, and I would say I was rounded down as often as up.

It will all balance out, moaning about it is a bit OTT imho.

RCSATELLITES

NIMAN wrote: »

Best thing done in a long time. Fair play to Ireland for being progressive in this.

I watched for a week or so when it started, and I would say I was rounded down as often as up.

It will all balance out, moaning about it is a bit OTT imho.

Maybe you need to watch it for longer than a week.

Anyway how much do you want to bet that it will be in the newspapers next year that some shop made x amount of money cause it only rounded up.

Anyway I know the Irish are allergic to moaning hence why the government does what they choose.

I suppose you pay your water bill instead of moaning.

L1011

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Anyway I know the Irish are allergic to moaning hence why the government does what they choose.

You don't know the Irish very well. Nation of moaners and gripers.

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

I suppose you pay your water bill instead of moaning.

I pay it because its a legally imposed charge that I'm legally required to - and you're veeringly wildly off topic.

NIMAN

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

Maybe you need to watch it for longer than a week.

Anyway how much do you want to bet that it will be in the newspapers next year that some shop made x amount of money cause it only rounded up.

Anyway I know the Irish are allergic to moaning hence why the government does what they choose.

I suppose you pay your water bill instead of moaning.

Its not a conspiracy, its down to luck.

If all the items in my shopping basket come to 11 or 12, they are rounded to 10, if they come to 13 or 14, they are rounded to 15. Its totally random, hit and miss. The shop won't round 11 or 12 to 15, so I think you need to forget about the fact that everyone is out to screw you.

And yes I do pay my water charge. I think €130 per year for a family of 5 is very good value. I guess you blindly refuse to pay any tax cos you're anti-everything? Do you agree with any tax at all?

Trev De rev

One of the local petrol station's in Mallow take the hit on the rounding down. And if it's rounded up they give the total to a local charity. Last time I say total it was €13 odd.

VandC

jack presley wrote:

I was surprised when this was introduced that they didn't get the big supermarkets to buy into this but up until a week ago a way, Dunnes Stores weren't rounding up/ down and Tesco weren't when I was there around Christmas either.

They wouldn't know what to fill their self service tills with for change if they participated

L1011

VandC wrote: »

They wouldn't know what to fill their self service tills with for change if they participated

The till software handles it; there's no issues there at all.

Tesco very much participate, always round down when suggested but also attempt to give the correct change if they have it. Twice recently I've been given the 1 or 2c applicable when the receipt had it rounded off.

EletricMan

Supervalu self checkout machines are the worst for this. They never give the correct change instead they tell you collect your change from the service station attendant. Most people don't collect it, as it seems cheap to be looking for your 2 or 3 cent. Over a day if most people don't collect it they must be making a tidy sum of money.

VandC

L1011 wrote:

Tesco very much participate, always round down when suggested but also attempt to give the correct change if they have it. Twice recently I've been given the 1 or 2c applicable when the receipt had it rounded off.

L1011 wrote:

The till software handles it; there's no issues there at all.

I was being sarcastic and commenting on the fact that their tills give out so much small change, ie five one cent coins instead of one five cent coin or four ten cent coins instead of two twenty cent coins, nearly all of the time. I wasn't commenting on their ability to be able to round or not.

animaal

If rounding works as prescribed, than it'll balance out more-or-less over the longer term. Maybe a slight advantage for the retailers, as they price so many things as 99.99.99, and the number of people purchasing a single item is probably higher than the number purchasing two items. The discrepancy would be very small though.

But it seems like an inelegant solution. If retailers didn't price everything as XX.99, there'd be far less use of coppers. What about if retailer priced individual items to the nearest 5c instead? On the one hand, it could be seen as a 1c price rise on almost every item. On the other hand, how likely is it that the retailer currently buys all items in bulk from a wholesaler, calculates the cost to him per item, adds on a percentage for costs & profit, and the total magically comes to XX.99? I'm guessing there's already a rounding to ensure many things come to XX.99. Pricing at an even amount (e.g. €1.00) seems to be avoided, so wouldn't the retailer be as likely to price at 0.95, particularly where the €1.00 was a rounding up in the first place?

I'm not a retailer, but I like the idea that the customer is charged the sum of what's on the price stickers. It's why I don't like the way sales tax gets added on in the USA. Or am I just OCD?

animaal

If rounding works as prescribed, than it'll balance out more-or-less over the longer term. Maybe a slight advantage for the retailers, as they price so many things as 99.99.99, and the number of people purchasing a single item is probably higher than the number purchasing two items. The discrepancy would be very small though.

But it seems like an inelegant solution. If retailers didn't price everything as XX.99, there'd be far less use of coppers. What about if retailer priced individual items to the nearest 5c instead? On the one hand, it could be seen as a 1c price rise on almost every item. On the other hand, how likely is it that the retailer currently buys all items in bulk from a wholesaler, calculates the cost to him per item, adds on a percentage for costs & profit, and the total magically comes to XX.99? I'm guessing there's already a rounding to ensure many things come to XX.99. Pricing at an even amount (e.g. €1.00) seems to be avoided, so wouldn't the retailer be as likely to price at 0.95, particularly where the €1.00 was a rounding up in the first place?

I'm not a retailer, but I like the idea that the customer is charged the sum of what's on the price stickers. It's why I don't like the way sales tax gets added on in the USA. Or am I just OCD?

RCSATELLITES

NIMAN wrote: »

Its not a conspiracy, its down to luck.

If all the items in my shopping basket come to 11 or 12, they are rounded to 10, if they come to 13 or 14, they are rounded to 15. Its totally random, hit and miss. The shop won't round 11 or 12 to 15, so I think you need to forget about the fact that everyone is out to screw you.

And yes I do pay my water charge. I think €130 per year for a family of 5 is very good value. I guess you blindly refuse to pay any tax cos you're anti-everything? Do you agree with any tax at all?

Your last comment sums it up.

"blindly refuse to pay any tax cos you're anti-everything? Do you agree with any tax at all?"

Who said anything about tax? The rounding off system is not a tax is it?
The water charges are not a tax are they? I thought the charge was for water no?

Get your facts right before you start talking.

RCSATELLITES

EletricMan wrote: »

Supervalu self checkout machines are the worst for this. They never give the correct change instead they tell you collect your change from the service station attendant. Most people don't collect it, as it seems cheap to be looking for your 2 or 3 cent. Over a day if most people don't collect it they must be making a tidy sum of money.

At last someone talking a bit of sense.

ectoraige

Out of curiosity I've kept track of the nett rounding on my purchases since it was introduced. To date I'm up five cents, I probably got the ones you lost OP!

LFCFan

MOD: Lads, keep it on topic and less abuse or I'll be closing the thread

And just to add my 2 cents (or would that now be 0 cents with the rounding), this is just like the plastic bag charge and the smoking ban and anything else that is introduced in Ireland. Some people moan about it at the start but eventually it's just the norm and nobody gives a toss any more. I for one have better and more important things to be thinking/worrying about than whether or not I'm up or down a grand total of approx. 50 cent over the space of a month. I've dropped more money on the ground or down the back of a sofa to really care about something so trivial.

LFCFan

MOD: Lads, keep it on topic and less abuse or I'll be closing the thread

And just to add my 2 cents (or would that now be 0 cents with the rounding), this is just like the plastic bag charge and the smoking ban and anything else that is introduced in Ireland. Some people moan about it at the start but eventually it's just the norm and nobody gives a toss any more. I for one have better and more important things to be thinking/worrying about than whether or not I'm up or down a grand total of approx. 50 cent over the space of a month. I've dropped more money on the ground or down the back of a sofa to really care about something so trivial.

RCSATELLITES

ectoraige wrote: »

Out of curiosity I've kept track of the nett rounding on my purchases since it was introduced. To date I'm up five cents, I probably got the ones you lost OP!

Hahahaa Probably.

All I want is the system to work properly. I just feel everything in Ireland is thrown in with out thought.

Its probably my fault for living in other countries and seeing how they are ran efficiently compared to this place.

RCSATELLITES

LFCFan wrote: »

MOD: Lads, keep it on topic and less abuse or I'll be closing the thread

And just to add my 2 cents (or would that now be 0 cents with the rounding), this is just like the plastic bag charge and the smoking ban and anything else that is introduced in Ireland. Some people moan about it at the start but eventually it's just the norm and nobody gives a toss any more. I for one have better and more important things to be thinking/worrying about than whether or not I'm up or down a grand total of approx. 50 cent over the space of a month. I've dropped more money on the ground or down the back of a sofa to really care about something so trivial.

After that comment, you might aswell close the thread. Sure we all have more important better things to be doing than writing on boards.

LFCFan

RCSATELLITES wrote: »

After that comment, you might aswell close the thread. Sure we all have more important better things to be doing than writing on boards.

You are obviously struggling with the concept of a 'discussion' forum. If you have nothing constructive to add then add nothing, otherwise you are just trolling

ohnonotgmail

I think we need to distinguish between problems with the idea of rounding as a concept and problems with how it is implemented by stores. As a concept i think its a great idea. gets rid of nuisance coins that are worth nothing and it is basically a zero-sum game for all involved. The implementation of it on the other hand leaves a lot to be desired. if a shop is not implementing it correctly they need to be told at the point of purchase. They might not even realise they are doing it incorrectly or staff might not have been trained correctly (or at all). Once it has had time to bed in i'm sure we will look back and wonder why we bothered with shrapnel in the first place.