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Leap card questions

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  • 26-01-2016 12:33pm
    #1
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭


    Two quick ones.

    My daughter has run out of credit and is in the city centre looking to get home. If I top up online how long is it before she can pick it up? The website says purchases before 10pm will be ready by 8am the next day? :eek:

    The other is does the DB validator on the RHS show the remaining balance on the card when you use it? I know the driver's does, but I can't remember if the other ones does?


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    #2
    Slippin Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭Slippin Jimmy


    If you top up online she cannot collect it until the following day. If possible, get her to go to a pay zone agent and top up there.

    I'm not sure if it shows your balance on the second validator. I would imagine it would.


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    #3
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Do you have an Android phone with NFC? Try downloading the Leap Top-Up app. You can top up instantly.


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    #4
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Do you have an Android phone with NFC? Try downloading the Leap Top-Up app. You can top up instantly.

    No, iPhone.


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    #5
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    n97 mini wrote: »
    No, iPhone.
    A friend?


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    #6
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    TheChizler wrote: »
    A friend?

    She's in on her own, fortunately she had a fiver on her and could top up using cash.

    It's a bit crap that even though the top up has been billed to my card, it's in absentia. Presumably it gets invested on the stock markets in the 24 hours it's missing.


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    #7
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    n97 mini wrote: »
    She's in on her own, fortunately she had a fiver on her and could top up using cash.

    It's a bit crap that even though the top up has been billed to my card, it's in absentia. Presumably it gets invested on the stock markets in the 24 hours it's missing.

    Yeah. Leap card is just an investments scam so the nta acting on behalf of the government can recoup budgetary deficits.


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    #8
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    It's the same on oyster in London. Not just a leap issue


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    #9
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Not surprising when you consider the major party behind the infrastructure is also one of the main parties in launching and running Oyster.


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    #10
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Yeah. Leap card is just an investments scam so the nta acting on behalf of the government can recoup budgetary deficits.

    Now you're just talking rubbish.


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    #11
    scrumqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭scrumqueen


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Now you're just talking rubbish.
    Jaysus, you failed Sarcasm in school, I'm betting..


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    #12
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Thanks for your useful contribution, it's worthy of thanks. But au contraire. For those of us old enough to know, inter bank transfers took an inordinate amount of working days to complete, the reason given was that the funds were temporarily used to earn the bank money. At least that's what we were told when I worked in the bank.

    While I was being sarcastic, the other post has no basis in reality.


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    #13
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭howiya


    n97 mini wrote: »
    She's in on her own, fortunately she had a fiver on her and could top up using cash.

    I don't get why the minimum top up is five euro when journeys are cheaper.

    I asked leap about it once and they responded comparing it to mobile phone top ups. They didn't have an answer when I pointed out that I use my phone today and pay for it at the end of the month..


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    #14
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Thanks for your useful contribution, it's worthy of thanks. But au contraire. For those of us old enough to know, inter bank transfers took an inordinate amount of working days to complete, the reason given was that the funds were temporarily used to earn the bank money. At least that's what we were told when I worked in the bank.

    While I was being sarcastic, the other post has no basis in reality.

    It doesn't matter when you purchase the topup be it online, with the new app on your phone, in a shop or on a ticket vending machine. Travel credit is held by the nta until reconciling any moneys due to an operator. There is no benefit to them holding onto an online topup for a day. The frequency issues with online topups are due to the operators.


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    #15
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    Was she actually in minus figures or did she think she didn't have enough to pay for the journey? If it was the latter once she's in credit she can dip into the minus figure ie has credit of 50c she can use the bus then, but if she's below 0 then she can't.


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    #16
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    She tagged on the bus going into town with €1.80 credit before she tagged on. So she went slightly into minus.


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    #17
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Thanks for your useful contribution, it's worthy of thanks. But au contraire. For those of us old enough to know, inter bank transfers took an inordinate amount of working days to complete, the reason given was that the funds were temporarily used to earn the bank money. At least that's what we were told when I worked in the bank.

    While I was being sarcastic, the other post has no basis in reality.

    Overnight interest rates are basically zero to negative right now so it's not that


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    #18
    Jem72
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Jem72


    A 5 euro minimum top-up on Leap is more than reasonable as this barely covers a return journey in and out of town. If that's an issue, you could just pay cash on the bus. To be honest, I'm quite surprised they haven't got a 10 or even 20 euro minimum on top-ups. A realistic minimum is about a week's worth of travel since relatively few people get paid more often than once a week.

    The reality is that Payzone top-ups cost a relatively large amount of money to process as do on-line credit card transactions. Is it really worth a shop's while to process a 5 euro top-up for maybe 15c profit while there's a huge queue of fuming customers waiting with sandwiches and coffees each of whom is worth a couple of euro to the shop.

    The Android NFC app for Leap is a brilliant innovation. Now that they can do this, it also means that the reverse should be possible. It would be really handy if they allowed you keep a copy of your ticket on your phone - particularly for those of us with passes - there would be no more chance of leaving your pass in the wrong jacket.


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    #19
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    It's possible and will undoubtedly appear in the future but it's technically very challenging. Contactless smart cards like Leap are built from the ground up to be very secure. You could tear the chip apart and not be able to read the data stored on it. Likewise it would be very difficult for you to create a fake ticket on a Leap card.

    On the other hand, if you have the phone in your hand, it's almost impossible for anyone to stop you reading a file (like a ticket) that is stored on it. It's equally difficult for someone to stop you creating a new ticket on your phone.

    There are technologies around to work around this but one requires the cooperation of your mobile phone company, the other requires your phone to have a fast, reliable internet connection when you want to board a bus or train and the third requires you to be Apple.


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    #20
    Seaswimmer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭Seaswimmer


    n97 mini wrote: »
    She tagged on the bus going into town with €1.80 credit before she tagged on. So she went slightly into minus.

    Always worth having the auto top up feature enabled for the kids I find.


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    #21
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    I topped up with the app, which is essentially online. Don't understand how that is available instantly.


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    #22
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I topped up with the app, which is essentially online. Don't understand how that is available instantly.

    The app is using NFC on your phone which is the same as topping up with a Luas or Rail ticket machine.


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    #23
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    The app is using NFC on your phone which is the same as topping up with a Luas or Rail ticket machine.

    That's the delivery, but the payment is still online, using 3D secure etc. TVMs aren't using the internet.


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    #24
    Slippin Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭Slippin Jimmy


    n97 mini wrote: »
    That's the delivery, but the payment is still online, using 3D secure etc. TVMs aren't using the internet.

    It's a step in the right direction. For me, I don't live near a payzone agent and there are no ticket machines close by. I find the nfc app to be really good.


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    #25
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    n97 mini wrote: »
    That's the delivery, but the payment is still online, using 3D secure etc. TVMs aren't using the internet.

    Nor are they actively connected to the back end for leap. All those transactions are processed periodically.

    What's different fom online topup purchasdd on the website is that the tvm connects to your card.

    The NFC chip connects to your card.

    The website does not.


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    #26
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    The NFC chip connects to your card.

    The website does not.

    You're confusing delivery and payment.


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    #27
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭cython


    n97 mini wrote: »
    You're confusing delivery and payment.

    Nope, I think you are. Payment is instant regardless of which means you use. However delivery is delayed when paying online and collecting via validator, payzone, TVM, etc. Just look at paypal, etc. when processing credit and debit cards, there is no appreciable delay in payment because they are online, and similar applies here. The delay is simply in delivery with the other means.


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    #28
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    cython wrote: »
    Nope, I think you are. Payment is instant regardless of which means you use.
    Eh, I'm not.

    I'll explain again. I can top online via either the app or the website, it's the same thing. The app is able to update my card on the spot.

    I can also top up on the spot using a TVM.

    However if I top up online, for delivery via a TVM, and it takes overnight to for the TVM to be able to deliver the top up.

    Must be An Post doing deliveries.


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    #29
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Eh, I'm not.

    I'll explain again. I can top online via either the app or the website, it's the same thing. The app is able to update my card on the spot.

    I can also top up on the spot using a TVM.

    However if I top up online, for delivery via a TVM, and it takes overnight to for the TVM to be able to deliver the top up.

    Must be An Post doing deliveries.

    Perhaps,however I have in the past Topped Up my Leapcard online and collected the amount 2 hours later at Luas TVM....more than once too,I suspect the 24 hour rule is simply insurance against events taking a turn ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #30
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭cython


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Eh, I'm not.

    I'll explain again. I can top online via either the app or the website, it's the same thing. The app is able to update my card on the spot.

    I can also top up on the spot using a TVM.

    However if I top up online, for delivery via a TVM, and it takes overnight to for the TVM to be able to deliver the top up.

    Must be An Post doing deliveries.

    It is still the case that the delivery incurs the delay, not the payment. Both the app and online process payment with no delay, so TVMs using the internet or not is irrelevant (actually not sure why you even raised that to be honest).

    The website has no means to update your leap card, and there is obviously a delay in updates being pushed from the website to TVMs, but again this is a delivery issue, not payment. A nice to have would be to be able to "collect" via the app, I guess, if it's somehow too awkward to pay via it, but realistically when payment through the app is possible that's probably way down any feature list, if it were even on any.


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    #31
    noelfirl
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    cython wrote: »
    The website has no means to update your leap card, and there is obviously a delay in updates being pushed from the website to TVMs, but again this is a delivery issue, not payment. A nice to have would be to be able to "collect" via the app, I guess, if it's somehow too awkward to pay via it, but realistically when payment through the app is possible that's probably way down any feature list, if it were even on any.

    I can't help but wonder, seeing as the app description says this:
    - Collect a pre-paid ticket e.g. a TaxSaver ticket or a ticket bought online at www.leapcard.ie

    ...whether it might not already be possible (unofficially) to collect top ups paid through the website (i.e. not through the app). If anyone wanted to try...


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