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New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭ BKWDR


    Gostkowski missing that kick. Just wow. I think we all would have put our houses on it.

    Didnt get to see all the game so will watch it tonight


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭ BKWDR


    Gostkowski missing that kick. Just wow. I think we all would have put our houses on it.

    Didnt get to see all the game so will watch it tonight


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bruschi


    Just back to reality after last night. Horrible game. It's all been said already, but my biggest issue is that this was being said all year. The O Line was muck, absolute muck. Canon and Fleming standing there watching the pass rushers just breeze past them. Chop thme, or slow them down or do something, but to not even lay a glove on them? Awful.

    Brady was spooked I think, probably due to the hits, but his play wasnt as good as it has been during the season. Most evident on the play where he did have time and he just never set himself and overthrew an easy pass to Gronk.

    As for Gostowski.:(

    I posted this back in October
    However, this week I wanted to make the point on Gostkowski, and how criminally under rated he is in general. Yes every one raves about him, everyone acknowledges how good he is, but because he is so utterly consistent and reliable, he is generally overlooked as it is a given he performs at the top level week in, week out. And the thing is, there is no other kicker in the league as good. And to be honest, I dont think there has ever been anyone as good. He had a very tough introduction, taking over from what many consider to be a guaranteed hall of famer, and for a kicker, thats not the norm. But I genuinely think he is now better than Vinatieri. Vinatieri will always have those superbowl winners, and probably more impressively, the equalising kick against the Raiders, which was utterly phenomenal. I was slow to take to Gost, its hard when a legend like Vinatieri leaves, and then a few missed clutch kicks (eg Arizona at home) adds to that pressure.

    But since then, and more so in the past couple of years, he has been exceptional. Delighted he got the consecutive record. He deserves the accolades he gets this week. Because to be honest, until he misses again, me and plenty of others and media, will continue to overlook his value and just consider it a given.

    :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭ Davina Many Ignoramus


    I always felt that Denver D gave them a chance, particularly against our OL, but I didn't think they would just open the floodgates and allow Brady to get smashed all night.

    Credit to Denver as they were beasts in the trenches, but a 2pt loss after Brady suffered the worst OL protection seen in the NFL this year, showed that even a decent performance by the OL would have been enough.

    The Gost miss was a factor at the end, but the OL (in terms of protection and the inability to help in the running game) is the glaring weakness that had to be addressed in the off season. When you see the cap hit Canon has, and the way he played, he may be a cut candidate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,211 ✭✭✭ AbusesToilets


    It's pretty damning that Denver felt they could get away with only rushing 3 most of the time, and they were proved right in the end. It took every bit of Brady to get them down the field at the end for the score.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,373 ✭✭✭✭ Utopia Parkway


    Watching Cannon and Fleming trying to defend Miller was a car crash. They literally didn't lay a glove on him at times. They weren't even slowing him down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭ Vanolder


    I had this horrible dream....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭ me89


    Just watched Gronks highlights again from last night, what an absolute beast.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 929 ✭✭✭ JCTO


    First scapegoat is gone. Dave DeGuglielmo got sacked today good to see we are blaming the Oline coach for sub standard offensive linemen and injuries. Scarnecchia wouldn't have even been able to anything with the abilities of the guys we have and the injuries we had.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,211 ✭✭✭ AbusesToilets


    Scapegoat a little perhaps, but at the end of the day injuries or not, the Broncos were getting hits on Brady with a 3 man rush. That's just not acceptable at all and it's not the first time this season by any stretch.

    Hoping that BB can be similarly ruthless in trying to address some of the teams other deficiencies, like having a decent rb or field stretching wr would be nice.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 929 ✭✭✭ JCTO


    Scapegoat a little perhaps, but at the end of the day injuries or not, the Broncos were getting hits on Brady with a 3 man rush. That's just not acceptable at all and it's not the first time this season by any stretch.

    Hoping that BB can be similarly ruthless in trying to address some of the teams other deficiencies, like having a decent rb or field stretching wr would be nice.

    There was nothing wrong with the tactics and adjustments on the oline. The players we have were getting beaten straight up and no coach could fix how bad they are. The firing is harsh and if we keep the same personnel it wont matter what coach we have for that Oline the same issues will arise next season.

    The Broncos and most front 7's in the league that b1tch slapped our Oline were beating each one of them right off the line. Take Cannon for example yesterday he was so slow and unable to pass protect efficiently Broncos defenders were around him right off the snap.

    We didn't have the protection for Brady this season and even in games we looked good that was all on Brady releasing quickly to Edelman. To blame an Oline coach on that performance or the season is stupid when the players we have are terrible. Even the guys we thought were good struggled.

    Lets hope whoever takes over gets upgrades on that line. Whoever it is has a hard task ahead of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭ BizzyC


    JCTO wrote: »
    Scarnecchia wouldn't have even been able to anything with the abilities of the guys we have and the injuries we had.

    I disagree, I think he would have done a better job.
    Sure, we still wouldn't have had a run game, but we wouldn't have a 6th linemen entering the formation only to have miller behind his back before he was out of his stance....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ BaronVon


    It certainly wasn't made easy for him........
    Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe
    During DeGuglielmo's 2 seasons, Pats lost 3 captains (Mankins traded, Connolly retired, Wendell IR), drafted 4 in 4th RD, lost Solder to IR.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭ JaMarcusHustle


    Kind of feel bad for him.

    On one hand, sure there wasn't much improvement in individual performances compared to last year. But not sure how you can blame that on the line coach, especially when he's forced to give Cannon and Kline so many snaps when really they should just be relief guys. You're also putting Vollmer at a weaker position as a result.

    Tough break for him but I guess the silver lining is that Bill knows the offensive line is an area of urgent attention and he's trying to do something about it. Sucks for Dave to be made culpable though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,617 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    The Patriots don't use scapegoats. The man was sacked because they don't think he is a good enough coach, it's that simple. We've had very poor years on defense and none of the coaches got the boot.

    Having said that it's very hard to replace the best and not look like you haven't a clue I'd imagine.

    We've had a lot of problems over the two years with the OL, wasn't just this year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭ JaMarcusHustle


    How much better could get have done though?

    After some initial concerns in preseason and the first few weeks of the season last year, the line settled really well and had a good year. Obviously we ended up winning the Super Bowl with them, so he was doing something right. Goes to show that with a healthy selection of players to choose from, he can get that line performing to a championship standard.

    Then this year, Solder goes on IR to start the year. So you have to move Vollmer out to left tackle, a position you yourself have claimed he struggles in. He's the only one you can put there because of Cannon's left foot injury meaning he can't play out left.

    Then you've got Cannon himself who is a greased up turnstile at right tackle. He filled in admirably but unspectacularly on rotation last year, but now you're asking him to play the majority of snaps, so the only advantage he may have held in games - being able to come in with full strength and stamina on occasion - is taken away from him.

    You've got Bryan Stork who had a very good rookie year going out with an injury and not looking anywhere near as good when he comes back. David Andrews looked impressive in his place, so why isn't Dave getting credit for that? If that was Scarnecchia plugging in an undrafted rookie at center (a position that oddsmakers give more importance to than any other except QB) and getting the performances out of him that he did, he'd be praised left, right and center about what he does with limited and unknown players. But I don't hear any praise for DeGuglielmo on that one.

    Ryan Wendell was also put on IR after looking good last year. So you've got Josh Kline and rookie Shaq Mason trying to guard Brady and rum block.

    It was a disaster of a year on the offensive line injury wise, I don't know DeGuglielmo can be blamed for that considering what he had to work with. The only investment we made in the line this year was 2 fourth rounders, one who struggled with injury, and a free agent in Waddle halfway through the year who wasn't good enough for Detroit.

    I don't know what was expected tbh. Your going up against Miller, Ware, Wolfe, Barrett etc. It's not as if you can pick one to double block.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 604 ✭✭✭ Vandango


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The Patriots don't use scapegoats. The man was sacked because they don't think he is a good enough coach, it's that simple. We've had very poor years on defense and none of the coaches got the boot.

    Having said that it's very hard to replace the best and not look like you haven't a clue I'd imagine.

    We've had a lot of problems over the two years with the OL, wasn't just this year.

    I agree with that. Some players also need to go, but getting rid of the OL coach was the right move. Brady was hit a record number of times for a postseason QB and that should never be acceptable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭ JaMarcusHustle


    <Snip>

    Poster site-banned for 2 weeks for ignoring Admin instruction.

    tHB


  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭ Realalemadrid



    Then you've got Cannon himself who is a greased up turnstile at right tackle. He filled in admirably but unspectacularly on rotation last year, but now you're asking him to play the majority of snaps, so the only advantage he may have held in games - being able to come in with full strength and stamina on occasion - is taken away from him.

    .

    Cannon got a new 2 year 9m contract at the start of the season with a 3.2m bonus for signing of the back off his filling in in 2014. I'm looking for someone to blame as to why somebody so poor gets paid so much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 929 ✭✭✭ JCTO


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The Patriots don't use scapegoats. The man was sacked because they don't think he is a good enough coach, it's that simple. We've had very poor years on defense and none of the coaches got the boot.

    Figure of speech but you cannot blame coaching on the mess and rotation that we have had as Oline personnel. What was he supposed to do? You can't turn sh1t into gold. We have some very poor linemen and no coach would do any better.
    Having said that it's very hard to replace the best and not look like you haven't a clue I'd imagine.

    Exactly and Scar probably wouldn't have gotten much better out of them this year.
    We've had a lot of problems over the two years with the OL, wasn't just this year.

    Have we though? We won a bowl last season. This seasons mess would make any coach look awful at his role. Injuries and having to rotate nothing but average guys in there made his job impossible


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 929 ✭✭✭ JCTO


    Vandango wrote: »
    I agree with that. Some players also need to go, but getting rid of the OL coach was the right move. Brady was hit a record number of times for a postseason QB and that should never be acceptable.

    Ok 21 sacks last year and did anyone complain about him then after we won a bowl? No they didn't. 38 sacks this year and because we get beat up by the best defense in the league he is written off as garbage. I will bet you any amount of money there is more behind this but I love how some are saying oh yeah his fault for all the hits and sacks. Wasn't a huge deal last year was it and why? Lets look at this season:

    3 rookies on the oline starting the season and then you have injuries on top of that.

    LT
    Sebastian Vollmer - Forever struggling with Injury
    Cameron Fleming - Shouldn't be starting on any NFL team

    LG
    Shaq Mason - Rookie but hasn't exceled hopefully he will at some point
    Josh Kline - See Fleming

    C
    Bryan Stork - Started well but then injury hit and he wasn't the same after
    David Andrews - Rookie I would have put him ahead of Stork

    RG
    Josh Kline - See above
    Tre Jackson - Rookie and like Mason didnt impress but too early to write him off

    RT
    Marcus Cannon - Big letdown
    LaAdrian Waddle - Not that great and looked flat

    Add to that we lost Solder and Wendell


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭ BizzyC


    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25463330/why-the-patriots-still-have-to-be-the-favorites-in-the-afc-in-2017----and-beyond

    Something to cheers us up...

    Who do we see moving this off season?

    I think losing Mayo is a must at this stage, too much money for his contributions in comparison to Collins and Hightower.

    We should hopefully have very little roster turnover this year with some cap space to make some moves, OL has to be the no.1 priority for BB.
    If we draft another injury prone DL as a "bargain" instead of paying for a real OL again, I'll be pretty ticked off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,617 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    Don't forget that our first pick in the draft will be at 60(at the earliest) so it's not like we are going to find a top tackle or guard sitting around that late.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭ BizzyC


    Even so, I think at 60 we'll still be able to pick up better than Cannon or Kline.

    I'm actually more hopeful for some moves in FA this season.
    We have space under the cap to make some signings, with one major point of weakness and no other position taking a big hit.

    We need new starters for the OL, and some better backup at LB & WR.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 604 ✭✭✭ Vandango


    JCTO wrote: »
    Ok 21 sacks last year and did anyone complain about him then after we won a bowl? No they didn't. 38 sacks this year and because we get beat up by the best defense in the league he is written off as garbage. I will bet you any amount of money there is more behind this but I love how some are saying oh yeah his fault for all the hits and sacks. Wasn't a huge deal last year was it and why? Lets look at this season:

    3 rookies on the oline starting the season and then you have injuries on top of that.

    LT
    Sebastian Vollmer - Forever struggling with Injury
    Cameron Fleming - Shouldn't be starting on any NFL team

    LG
    Shaq Mason - Rookie but hasn't exceled hopefully he will at some point
    Josh Kline - See Fleming

    C
    Bryan Stork - Started well but then injury hit and he wasn't the same after
    David Andrews - Rookie I would have put him ahead of Stork

    RG
    Josh Kline - See above
    Tre Jackson - Rookie and like Mason didnt impress but too early to write him off

    RT
    Marcus Cannon - Big letdown
    LaAdrian Waddle - Not that great and looked flat

    Add to that we lost Solder and Wendell

    I agree with everything you said there, but I didn't say anything about Googe being garbage. I just feel he had to go after the terrible OL performances and the AFC title game was probably the straw that broke the camels back. He was pretty unlucky with injuries and some of the crap talent he inherited, but I don't think Bill is interested in hard luck stories.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 929 ✭✭✭ JCTO


    Vandango wrote: »
    I agree with everything you said there, but I didn't say anything about Googe being garbage. I just feel he had to go after the terrible OL performances and the AFC title game was probably the straw that broke the camels back. He was pretty unlucky with injuries and some of the crap talent he inherited, but I don't think Bill is interested in hard luck stories.

    I take it you meant Gug and I never said you did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,617 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    Every time I start thinking about the draft I get angry thinking about the first round pick. It's just fkn ludicrous that we had our first rounder taken off us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,211 ✭✭✭ AbusesToilets


    I've a feeling the team will come to rue that lost pick in years to come, especially with Brady coming to the end of his career.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭ Davina Many Ignoramus


    Given the knock down the NFL were given in the courts, had Kraft shown the same determination he did pre-SB, they'd have the picks back.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 929 ✭✭✭ JCTO


    I actually don't think the draft pick loss will have much impact. The odds of getting players 100% ready and up for the challenge to help Brady see out his career is going to be slim in this draft. We will have a better chance building our weaknesses in the FA anyways especially for a Bowl push next season and worry about the future next season.


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