How much is your home electricity bill

gabsdot40

I'm just wondering how much people's electricity bill increased after buying a EV. Our bill seems to be very high and I'm wondering if it's normal.
When we bought the car the bill went up by around 110 per month to 278. Buying the car coincided with getting an electric shower so the increase is probably a combination of both.
We switched to another provider and the bill went down considerably but out of the blue we've been hit with a bill for 459 for one month.
Any thoughts

mylesm

gabsdot40 wrote: »

I'm just wondering how much people's electricity bill increased after buying a EV. Our bill seems to be very high and I'm wondering if it's normal.
When we bought the car the bill went up by around 110 per month to 278. Buying the car coincided with getting an electric shower so the increase is probably a combination of both.
We switched to another provider and the bill went down considerably but out of the blue we've been hit with a bill for 459 for one month.
Any thoughts

That Sounds Very High for one month have you a dual tariff meter

You should read your meter yourself and note the reading then read it again say 3 Days later and calculate how many units you have used and then work out cost should give you an idea of average day

steelboots

I'm getting my leaf next Friday, so can't say for sure but most commentary I've seen is about €250 euro for 20,000kms.

An increase of €110 per month is a massive increase. To give you an indication my bill is about €120 per month for a family of 2 adults + 4 kids, with electric shower, and all clothes dried by an electric tumble dryer. We use each of the electrical appliances about 12 times per week (dishwasher, washing machine, dryer).

Couple of things:

1) You supplier is probably estimating your usage to low, and then when an actual reading is done they are charging you for the deficit. You bill the next month may will drop back, there is no way you should be paying €278 per month unless you have heaters in the attic to grow plants
2) Have you switched to night saver so you can time the leaf to charge at night (at half the rate) and use the delay time on your appliances ?
3) How many miles are you driving the leaf per year ?

samih

Could be just a bad timing, i.e. first time the meter was read for ages (and lots of estimated bills before). Do you have a dual rate meter?

Our two full bimonthly electricity bills since installation of night saver meter and rate negotiations were:

170E
110A

The bill used to normally be around 90-120 depending on the season etc. so looks to have gone up by about 30..40 per bill, i.e. 20ish a month. House power usage has over doubled from the past but we now use night time rate for dishwasher, charging, and washing machine. We use roughly twice as much power at night rate compared to day rate.

Leaf has now 14k on the clock in 5 months so we have used it a lot and most of the charging is done at home these days.

HTH.

cros13

My bill is lower by about €30 a month vs. before getting an EV with a nightsaver meter.
Actual unit usage is up about 75%. Doing ~5000km a month on the EV.

Electric showers are a very bad idea. Pumped showers are the way to go.

Scottie99

I guess it was an estimate, then a reading and finally estimate.
Have you an off peak facility?

Off peak 0.08x24=€1.92
Peak 0.18x24=€4.32
Maximum for charging your car.


I like everyone are paying around €250/70 bimonthly. Weekly km is around 5/600km

Bearing in mind you will rarely need a full charge, I doubt many people will be regularly getting home with less than 20% remaining charge.

Anyway my night rate electricity costs 8.4 C/Kwh Night and 17 C/Kwh day.

Based on my average consumption of 18 Kwh/100 Kms it would cost about 300 Euro's to drive 20,000 Kms if I managed to do all my driving on night electricity.

If you got a monthly bill for petrol or diesel it would cost nearly 4 times more at 55 mpg, but most people pay no attention when they pay for diesel in 30-50+ Euro fill ups and I find it rather interesting they would actually think their electricity bill is expensive with the EV considering the cost of petrol or diesel.

a 55 mpg average mpg diesel , that's 5.13 L/100 Kms would pay 1,200 euro's to cover the same distance.

EV 20,000 Kms 300 Euro's night rate.

Diesel 1,200 @ 55 mpg.

EV 40,000 Kms 600 Euro's night rate.

Diesel 2,400 Euro's.

There are many people getting far less then 55 mpg average. 55 mpg, 5.13 l/100 Kms calculated by not resetting the trip computer to allow it calculate the long term average.

While most people will get away charging mainly at night. Others will have to do some topping up during the day. Even so it's far cheaper than petrol or any diesel.

A night meter is advisable, why pay twice the price ?

With the future 200 mile range electrics 320 kms due in late 2017 early 2018 , you can be pretty sure than 99% of your driving will indeed be met with home charging at night.

sgalvin

My last bill for 2 months was €420.

Before I got the car.
Winter bills have were €300 / 2 months
Summer €200 / 2 months.

The car consumed ~1,000 kWh in 3 months or €160 at dayrate at home.

€55 month for 1,700km/month.

i use a good bit of heat and don't worry too much about maximising range and I don't have nightrate.

The electric companies quote an average usage of 5,300 kWh per year for domestic users.
I heat with oil but last year mine was 8,000 kWh and the car will add 4,000 kwh more this year!!

The flat rate plans offered by the sales teams will be based on this 5,300 if you are a big user. Then you get a "balancing bill" to make up the difference after a while.

You are not "leaking" electricity so don't worry about it. The 1cent/km is rubbish, 1.5-3 cent/ km is where it is depending on whether you charge on night/dayrate.

gabsdot40 wrote: »

I'm just wondering how much people's electricity bill increased after buying a EV. Our bill seems to be very high and I'm wondering if it's normal.
When we bought the car the bill went up by around 110 per month to 278. Buying the car coincided with getting an electric shower so the increase is probably a combination of both.
We switched to another provider and the bill went down considerably but out of the blue we've been hit with a bill for 459 for one month.
Any thoughts

My consumption the last year was 5,100 Kwh for the house and the car to drive the EV 28,000 Kms, however, some of this charging has been done with the free public charging and my work charge point.

If I had the 30 kwh then all my commute would be met with the work Charge point !

My average consumption before getting the Leaf was 6.5 Kwh per day, with the leaf 15.5 Kwh per day after a year.

Whatever anyone thinks their bill is, the same amount of miles on diesel would be much, much more expensive.

Try do most of your charging on night rate.

Better still, if you have an ICE car, drive it the same amount of miles per 2 months , get a fuel card from Topaz and then see what you pay !

Again, to drive the Leaf 20,000 Kms will cost around 300 Euro's on night rate, 40,000 Kms will cost 600 Euro's.

cros13

sgalvin wrote: »

The car consumed ~1,000 kWh in 3 months or €160 at dayrate at home.

You really should get a nightsaver meter. I used 3800kWh for the first 30,000km on my i3 including charging losses (from the OWL meter on the line to the charger). €300 including a little daytime charging. I pay 7.4c/kWh night rate.

My savings by using the built-in timers on the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer to push them to the night rate saved over €600/year.

steelboots

cros13 wrote: »

I pay 7.4c/kWh night rate.

Who is your provider cros13 ? Sounds cheap !

Sam Kade

gabsdot40 wrote: »

I'm just wondering how much people's electricity bill increased after buying a EV. Our bill seems to be very high and I'm wondering if it's normal.
When we bought the car the bill went up by around 110 per month to 278. Buying the car coincided with getting an electric shower so the increase is probably a combination of both.
We switched to another provider and the bill went down considerably but out of the blue we've been hit with a bill for 459 for one month.
Any thoughts

Is that for 1 month or 2 months as bills are for 2 months?

pwurple

WTF, those bills are CRAY CRAY! 459 euro for electricity! Is that estimated or a reading?

I've a household of 5 people, nightsaver, electric car, 2 electric showers, and my last bill was €145 for two months (64 days) with Panda Power. It normally is in the €100 - €120 range, but our au-pair is running her electric blanket and extra electric heater non-stop because she is stone cold frozen here in this climate, which is fair enough.

I've tracked my bills over 5 years, when we got the electric car and switched to night-saver our bills dropped by 10% on previous years.

Now, we are not heavy users, we have the car 9 months so far, doing about 1500km per month.

Sam Kade

pwurple wrote: »

WTF, those bills are CRAY CRAY! 459 euro for electricity! Is that estimated or a reading?

I've a household of 5 people, nightsaver, electric car, 2 electric showers, and my last bill was €145 for two months (64 days) with Panda Power. It normally is in the €100 - €120 range, but our au-pair is running her electric blanket and extra electric heater non-stop because she is stone cold frozen here in this climate, which is fair enough.

I've tracked my bills over 5 years, when we got the electric car and switched to night-saver our bills dropped by 10% on previous years.

Now, we are not heavy users, we have the car 9 months so far, doing about 1500km per month.

Christ, how do you manage all that and have such a low bill?

By the way OP, do you need an electric shower ?

I have central heating and this gives me tonnes of water, I had an electric shower years ago and got rid of it for a pumped only shower when I realised I was wasting all that hot water in the tank !

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

a 55 mpg average mpg diesel , that's 5.13 L/100 Kms would pay 1,200 euro's to cover the same distance.

EV 20,000 Kms 300 Euro's night rate.

Diesel 1,200 @ 55 mpg.

EV 40,000 Kms 600 Euro's night rate.

Diesel 2,400 Euro's.

Looking at those numbers I wonder is that like for like?

Looking at the Nissan website, the Pulsar seems to be the diesel equivalent of the Leaf. A 1.5 SV Pulsar costs €23,595 and gets 78 MPG.

So 20,000 KMs would cost just €792 per year.

Now I think if I was buying a Leaf, the only option would be a SVE + 30 kWh battery + cool pack + 6kw charger, so €28,200 *

* Yes, I know slightly unfair comparison, but I think these are completely necessary options to create a somewhat equivalent car.

That is a €5805 difference, it would take almost 12 years to make up the difference at these Diesel and Electric prices!

Doesn't seem really worth it for the trade off of the trouble of dealing with limited range, long charging times, etc.

Of course that doesn't take into account all cost differences. A Leaf has lower maintenance costs, but then it seems to suffer from greater depreciation. Of course the price of diesel may increase or decrease as might the price of electric. Then you have to factor in the ESB echarges, whatever they are.

Certainly doesn't seem to be a slam dunk from the cost perspective.

KCross

pwurple wrote: »

WTF, those bills are CRAY CRAY! 459 euro for electricity! Is that estimated or a reading?

I've a household of 5 people, nightsaver, electric car, 2 electric showers, and my last bill was €145 for two months (64 days) with Panda Power. It normally is in the €100 - €120 range, but our au-pair is running her electric blanket and extra electric heater non-stop because she is stone cold frozen here in this climate, which is fair enough.

I've tracked my bills over 5 years, when we got the electric car and switched to night-saver our bills dropped by 10% on previous years.

Now, we are not heavy users, we have the car 9 months so far, doing about 1500km per month.

That sounds too good to be true. Standing charge and levy alone would be about 50 regardless of what you use so that means you are using less that €50 per month for electricity.

Are your bills estimated and you just happened to get an easy bounce this month based on an estimated bill?.... something definitely is odd with those figures.

steelboots

bk wrote: »

Looking at those numbers I wonder is that like for like?

Looking at the Nissan website, the Pulsar seems to be the diesel equivalent of the Leaf. A 1.5 SV Pulsar costs €23,595 and gets 78 MPG.

So 20,000 KMs would cost just €792 per year.

Now I think if I was buying a Leaf, the only option would be a SVE + 30 kWh battery + cool pack + 6kw charger, so €28,200 *

* Yes, I know slightly unfair comparison, but I think these are completely necessary options to create a somewhat equivalent car.

That is a €5805 difference, it would take almost 12 years to make up the difference at these Diesel and Electric prices!

Doesn't seem really worth it for the trade off of the trouble of dealing with limited range, long charging times, etc.

Of course that doesn't take into account all cost differences. A Leaf has lower maintenance costs, but then it seems to suffer from greater depreciation. Of course the price of diesel may increase or decrease as might the price of electric. Then you have to factor in the ESB charges, whatever they are.

Certainly doesn't seem to be a slam dunk from the cost perspective.

- Leaf has a higher spec.
- There is no way you will get the quoted 78mpg, closer to 55-60mpg.
- Maintenance difference could be significant, especially as the car gets older.
- Lower road tax.
- Lower insurance.

Range isn't an issue for those buying a leaf or you wouldn't buy it in the first place. If I have to go on longer journeys I look forward to my free fuel
Lets face it, this is the way cars are moving so its just a matter of time and we will all be driving EVs....

Rafal

Deleted User wrote: »

By the way OP, do you need an electric shower ?

I have central heating and this gives me tonnes of water, I had an electric shower years ago and got rid of it for a pumped only shower when I realised I was wasting all that hot water in the tank !

Uh-oh. I think a subforum for shower and plumbing-related discussions with you as its moderator would be great to have.

pwurple

KCross wrote: »

That sounds too good to be true. Standing charge and levy alone would be about 50 regardless of what you use so that means you are using less that €50 per month for electricity.

Are your bills estimated and you just happened to get an easy bounce this month based on an estimated bill?.... something definitely is odd with those figures.

Actual readings.

Standing charge: 64 days@0.4631 = 29.64
PSO levy @ 5.01 per mont = 10.02
plus VAT @13% = €44

My unit prices are €0.1467 day and 0.0712 night (without vat).
Usage over the 2 months was under 500 units for day and under 400 for night.

So yes, around 100 euro of leccie over 2 months, plus standing charge.

How many units are you guys using?

cros13

steelboots wrote: »

Who is your provider cros13 ? Sounds cheap !

Airtricity on a multi-property account.

KCross

pwurple wrote: »

Actual readings.

Standing charge: 64 days@0.4631 = 29.64
PSO levy @ 5.01 per mont = 10.02
plus VAT @13% = €44

My unit prices are €0.1467 day and 0.0712 night (without vat).
Usage over the 2 months was under 500 units for day and under 400 for night.

So yes, around 100 euro of leccie over 2 months, plus standing charge.

How many units are you guys using?

Yea, I suppose thats about right. During the summer I'd use 500 day and 400 night as well. Using more now as I have electric driven heating (Geothermal) so I would have one or two bills around 400 for 2 months during the cold winter months and then it settles back to around €200

I had not heard of Panda before. Must look at them when my contract is up as they are slightly cheaper than Airtricity right now by about 1c.

steelboots

go to Bonkers.ie and it asks you a few basic questions and will tell you who is cheapest. Its telling me I could save €360 per year off my bill. That should cover the Leaf fuel for the year. Happy days !

bk

steelboots wrote: »

- Leaf has a higher spec.

How? I mean obviously I added extra options, but those are necessary for a reasonable range. But I don't see much other differences, I was comparing a SV Leaf with a SV Pulsar.

steelboots wrote: »

- There is no way you will get the quoted 78mpg, closer to 55-60mpg.

Fair enough.

steelboots wrote: »

- Maintenance difference could be significant, especially as the car gets older.

But so could depreciation on the Leaf which seemingly has one of the worst depreciation rates in the uk!

steelboots wrote: »

- Lower road tax.

€120 versus €180 hardly breaking the bank and an ESB eCharge subscription of €17 per month could quickly wipe that saving out and a lot more!

steelboots wrote: »

- Lower insurance.

Really, why would that be? Surely the insurance on a car that costs almost €6000 more, is going to cost more?

steelboots wrote: »

Range isn't an issue for those buying a leaf or you wouldn't buy it in the first place.

Err... that is some twisted logic there!

steelboots wrote: »

If I have to go on longer journeys I look forward to my free fuel

But it isn't really free, you paid €6000 more for almost the same car and you have to pay for the electricity and possibly ESB eCar subs and charges in future.

€6000 at a more realistic 60 MPG will buy you almost 110,000 km of range!

You are looking at 6 years to break even! And that isn't including the extra interest on an extra €6000!

Actually €6000 extra at 7.8% APR over 3 years costs €7,400, which would give you 145,000 km to break even.

I'm not saying it can't be good value for some people (doing 40 to 60k per year maybe?), I'm just looking at it for myself. I'm increasingly thinking perhaps a PCP on a Diesel like this for 3 years and then perhaps re-evalute on perhaps a 200 mile Leaf 2 in 3 years time, assuming available by then.

steelboots wrote: »

Lets face it, this is the way cars are moving so its just a matter of time and we will all be driving EVs....

Oh, I couldn't agree more. They are definitely the future, I'm just not sure they are the present for most people.

bk

bk wrote: »

Looking at those numbers I wonder is that like for like?

Looking at the Nissan website, the Pulsar seems to be the diesel equivalent of the Leaf. A 1.5 SV Pulsar costs €23,595 and gets 78 MPG.

So 20,000 KMs would cost just €792 per year.

Now I think if I was buying a Leaf, the only option would be a SVE + 30 kWh battery + cool pack + 6kw charger, so €28,200 *

* Yes, I know slightly unfair comparison, but I think these are completely necessary options to create a somewhat equivalent car.

That is a €5805 difference, it would take almost 12 years to make up the difference at these Diesel and Electric prices!

Doesn't seem really worth it for the trade off of the trouble of dealing with limited range, long charging times, etc.

Of course that doesn't take into account all cost differences. A Leaf has lower maintenance costs, but then it seems to suffer from greater depreciation. Of course the price of diesel may increase or decrease as might the price of electric. Then you have to factor in the ESB echarges, whatever they are.

Certainly doesn't seem to be a slam dunk from the cost perspective.

78 mpg are the European farcical NEDC simulated tests.

55 mpg is about the average based on user reviews on what car, So I'd trust that a lot more than an NEDC test.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/real-world-mpg-economical-family-cars/1223365

For instance, the Bluemotion Golf TDI 88 mpg helped by the NEDC test, makes VW look good, real life economy 56 MPG.

There's a whole lot of cars in a similar boat. They're not going to get much more out of Diesel engines, not unless the make the whole car out of carbon.

There is no point using U.K depreciation for Ireland, a lot of cars in the U.K suffer very high depreciation due to the massive amount of leased cars in fact it's become such a problem that there were talks of eliminating PCP for certain cars. I read an article on it a while back.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no point using U.K depreciation for Ireland, a lot of cars in the U.K suffer very high depreciation due to the massive amount of leased cars in fact it's become such a problem that there were talks of eliminating PCP for certain cars. I read an article on it a while back.

Yes, but that also highly effects the Irish second hand market, due to imports etc. And I've been hearing the same issues with Leaf depreciation here in Ireland.

BTW I reworked the figures down to 60 mpg and it is still a massive gap to make up. 55mpg wouldn't make much difference.

gabsdot40

Thank you all for your responses. we'll have to take a good look at our usage and see where savings can be made. I've been shouting at the kids to turn off lights since the bill arrived.

The Leaf doesn't loose it's value nearly as much as the U.K.

In fact, it's 2nd hand value is as good and sometimes better than all but the premium brand cars.

You also don't pay 7.6% interest on the full cost of a car on PCP .

I pay 450 PM inc the trade in of the Prius. Almost half that is paid by not paying for fuel.

Anyway we're going OT here,

I got actual monthly consumption data to share later.

sgalvin

I have been using a megane 1.5 dci for the last week in place of my Fluence ZE.
5.0 l/100/km was the actual consumption or 6.5cent/km.

Model for model the leaf is ca €1,000 more than the pulsar for the 1.5dci engine.

Not sure if you can get an Automatic option on it but would be ca €1,500 (optional price on Renault with same engine) which I would probably take as there are a lot of gear changes todo!

Over the life of both (excluding major failures)
€1,000/year dsl vs nightrate €10,000
Clutch €500
Timing belt €500
Servicing (save €150/yr) €1,500

This pushes you into a very basic micra

pwurple

gabsdot40 wrote: »

Thank you all for your responses. we'll have to take a good look at our usage and see where savings can be made. I've been shouting at the kids to turn off lights since the bill arrived.

Lights are not going to be the big drain. Think about things that heat, rather than light, those really suck the juice.

So your immersion, tumble dryer, electric shower, electric heaters, kettle, oven, grills, electric hob, hairdryers or tongs, heated blankets... and maybe some items that are on a lot of the day, and get warm during use. PC's, TV's etc.

I actually found in my old house, we had a jump in a bill, and it turned out to be a problem with our fridge. The thermostat was gone wonky and the fridge/freezer was on far more than it should have been.