What makes successful Irish cities and towns?

Dughorm

So outside of Dublin, some cities and towns have been rapidly increasing in population the last 40 years while others haven't as much. Here are some figures from some of the largest cities and towns. What makes some cities more attractive to live in than others?

Why have people been packing out Galway with a staggering 157% increase in population in 40 years? Why are people leaving Cork city centre to move out to the suburbs? What does that say about urban life in Cork or in cities in Ireland in general?

City/Town|1971|2011|% Change
Cork|134430|118912|-12%
Limerick|57161|56779|-0.1%
Waterford|33676|46747|+39%
Galway|29375|75529|+157%
Drogheda|20095|38578|+92%
Kilkenny|13306|24423|+84%


I've added a poll to show some factors for what makes an Irish city or town successful - which do you think is the most important? For me it's IDA jobs/multinationals located in the area...

tomwaterford

Is it because cork is constantly flooding??

As for Waterford/Limerick I do know that these cities have as nearly many in its hinterland as in the city themselves and the city boundaries are well due an update

Faith+1

Surprised at Cork Cities decrease?

Dughorm

Here is the same table, showing the suburbs included in 2011 according to CSO

City/Town|1971|2011 with suburbs|% Change
Cork|134430|198582|+48%
Limerick|57161|91454|+60%
Waterford|33676|51519|+53%
Galway|29375|76778|+161%
Drogheda|20095|38578|+92%
Kilkenny|13306|24423|+84%


The percentage increase still shows a marked difference in population growth even when the suburbs are included for 2011 (can't find 1971 figures with suburbs). Galway is still miles in front in population growth with Cork/Waterford at the end.

How did Galway's population boom arise?! Is that why traffic is always dreadful there:D

Atlantic Dawn

Politicians maintaining the parish pump usually has most impact.

lanos

City/Town|1971|2011|% Change
Cork|134430|118912|-12%
Limerick|57161|56779|-0.1%
Waterford|33676|46747|+39%
Galway|29375|75529|+157%
Drogheda|20095|38578|+92%
Kilkenny|13306|24423|+84%


is success defined by population increase ?
the limerick statistic is interesting in that it is the only city that has a stable population
between 1971 and 2011

is stability not a measure of success ?

The Randy Riverbeast

Dughorm wrote: »

Here is the same table, showing the suburbs included in 2011 according to CSO

City/Town|1971|2011 with suburbs|% Change
Cork|134430|198582|+48%
Limerick|57161|91454|+60%
Waterford|33676|51519|+53%
Galway|29375|76778|+161%
Drogheda|20095|38578|+92%
Kilkenny|13306|24423|+84%


The percentage increase still shows a marked difference in population growth even when the suburbs are included for 2011 (can't find 1971 figures with suburbs). Galway is still miles in front in population growth with Cork/Waterford at the end.

How did Galway's population boom arise?! Is that why traffic is always dreadful there:D

It looks like most people are going into the city centre for Galway. Maybe they are trying to avoid driving, I know I am.

Bulbous Salutation

Galway is full of refugees escaping the hellholes of North Clare, Roscommon and Mayo.

Dughorm

lanos wrote: »

is success defined by population increase ?
the limerick statistic is interesting in that it is the only city that has a stable population
between 1971 and 2011

is stability not a measure of success ?

Good question - in my book a city/town with a growing population in a country with a growing population is a better measure of success than stability.

If Dublin increased in population three-fold but Limerick say stayed the same, in terms of jobs and the number of TDs, Limerick would be worse off and probably stuck with an aging population as the young people would head to Dublin (like they're already doing )

lisasimpson

in relation to cork city.. the official cork city area is quite small a lot of its suburbs are technically cork county which is ridiculous. a large part of douglas area is actually cork county so if the city boundaries were extended the figures would be a lot different .... there are also large areas of cork city itself gone into ruins.. barracks st, Shandon st to name two areas have quite a few derlict buildings.. which there is no need for considering there closeness to the city centre and the university. would have no problem renting rooms in them
another reason for the decline would be the likes of glasheen wilton etc would have older populations where kids have know grown up and left home

There are not many places to live in Cork City centre. And most houses/flats are fairly crap. (Except mine! It's lovely!)

Not many families would live in Cork city centre anyway. Not enough space. Also Cork City centre is tiny. Many new houses have been built in commuter towns outside the city in the past few years. Makes total sense to me.

dotsman

My guess is that, when a city is small, people moving to that city move to the center or close top it. However, as the city expands, the city center becomes more retail/office and the bulk of the population reside in suburbs/satellite town (in Ireland, our planners live by the mantra "build out, not up"). From the tables above, it certainly would back up that theory.

I do know that, in Cork's case, the city boundaries are ridiculous small. Basically, only a little dot right bang in the middle is considered the city and the rest is the "county". Not sure if it is just urban legend, but have heard it from several different people, that the county council refuse to redraw the boundaries, and allow the city grow, as they make so much money from the rates collected from shops/offices that are now officially in the county. And this is a big part of the reason why there is so much controversy at the moment in terms of merging both city and county council into one.

AppleBottle

While I can't speak for a lot of those places, I live close to Drogheda. I would imagine for Drogheda it would have something to do with transport links and being on the commuter belt/Belfast line so it's easy enough to get into Dublin for people. It would be cheaper to rent further from Dublin too.

Balmed Out

Galway and Waterford are both far smaller then Cork but have a larger urban area so the statistics are thrown by the fact that so much of what people commonly refer to as Cork city is in the county. Id presume over this time span city centres everywhere have had population decreases with more retail and office spaces and less homes particularly family homes.

The Backwards Man

Dughorm wrote: »

Good question - in my book a city/town with a growing population in a country with a growing population is a better measure of success than stability.

If Dublin increased in population three-fold but Limerick say stayed the same, in terms of jobs and the number of TDs, Limerick would be worse off and probably stuck with an aging population as the young people would head to Dublin (like they're already doing )

In that case, San'a in Yemen, Niamey in Niger and Chittagong in Bangladesh are all success stories?

lisasimpson

yes the cork city boundaries saga is dragging out for ages now that much is true.. whatever about including the like of ballincollig as city parts of togher, douglas, frankfield grange areas should be counted city at this stage even rochestown....
even though cork is small there is a potential to have more residential in it if one used their imagination...it might not suit families fair enough there is a large rental market for young people renting. There was lovely work done over by Cornmarket St, was in one of the apartments there once they are nice. One example is Barrack St and with office developments taking place in the centre, barrack street is within walking distance...also the upper floors of some retail building..ie like waterstone etc are the top floors of these buildings even used? using these as apartments would free up family houses in the suburbs otherwise rented by groups of friends in their 20s/30s
Then you have a development in Blackrock (again walking distance of the centre and on bus route to town and mahon), houses that were built towards the end of the boom are just left sitting there. developer/nama whoever has there site should be made sell these and there is still some of the site un-developed too.
I'm sure there are other parts of the city that I'm not familiar with in the same both

Dughorm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

In that case, San'a in Yemen, Niamey in Niger and Chittagong in Bangladesh are all success stories?

Perhaps the Chittagongians will be queueing up with the refugees from North Clare and Roscommon to move to Galway too? :pac:

Halloween Jack

Dughorm wrote: »

So outside of Dublin, some cities and towns have been rapidly increasing in population the last 40 years while others haven't as much. Here are some figures from some of the largest cities and towns. What makes some cities more attractive to live in than others?

Why have people been packing out Galway with a staggering 157% increase in population in 40 years? Why are people leaving Cork city centre to move out to the suburbs? What does that say about urban life in Cork or in cities in Ireland in general?

City/Town|1971|2011|% Change
Cork|134430|118912|-12%
Limerick|57161|56779|-0.1%
Waterford|33676|46747|+39%
Galway|29375|75529|+157%
Drogheda|20095|38578|+92%
Kilkenny|13306|24423|+84%


I've added a poll to show some factors for what makes an Irish city or town successful - which do you think is the most important? For me it's IDA jobs/multinationals located in the area...

I'm not sure these numbers alone tell you much. The general population of the country has risen from 3m in 1971 to 5m or whatever it is now, so while Limerick looks like it has a stable population, it's probably more accurate to think that it's relative population has declined significantly...

Rightwing

Interesting thread.

Limerick got very few IDA jobs during the FF boom years, in fact it's numbers declined with the dell closure. Now, many jobs are coming back into the region. The difference between Willie O Dea and M Noonan. Politics.

Galway and Cork probably have had strong politicians over the years, whereas Waterford hasn't.

Dughorm

Balmed Out wrote: »

Galway and Waterford are both far smaller then Cork but have a larger urban area so the statistics are thrown by the fact that so much of what people commonly refer to as Cork city is in the county.

I think there's an element of truth in this, here is a table showing the city area population in 2011 and per square mile. It shows how Cork city has a smaller area than the other regional cities. Strangely, Limerick City (excluding suburbs) has the lowest population per square mile, even smaller than Waterford. Why does Limerick stand out in this regard?

City|2011 City Only|Sq Miles|Pop/Sq Mile
Cork|118912|14.4|8258|
Limerick|56779|19.8|2868|
Waterford|46747|16|2922|
Galway|75529|20|3776|

Balmed Out wrote: »

Id presume over this time span city centres everywhere have had population decreases with more retail and office spaces and less homes particularly family homes.

It surprises me that even when the suburbs are included, some areas have much more growth than others (i.e. Galway) which is city centre driven growth apparently?

Rightwing

Dughorm wrote: »

I think there's an element of truth in this, here is a table showing the city area population in 2011 and per square mile. It shows how Cork city has a smaller area than the other regional cities. Strangely, Limerick City (excluding suburbs) has the lowest population per square mile, even smaller than Waterford. Why does Limerick stand out in this regard?

City|2011 City Only|Sq Miles|Pop/Sq Mile
Cork|118912|14.4|8258|
Limerick|56779|19.8|2868|
Waterford|46747|16|2922|
Galway|75529|20|3776|




It surprises me that even when the suburbs are included, some areas have much more growth than others (i.e. Galway) which is city centre driven growth apparently?

A lot of burnt out, thrashed and vacant buildings there.

RobertKK

For Kilkenny it is its history and medieval architecture, modern but hasn't lost it's medieval charm which brings in a lot of tourism, and since it is geared up for tourism, festivals and the odd big concert it is a place known for the craic.
Some really beautiful scenery in the areas around Kilkenny city too, as Lonely planet says about Northern Kilkenny, it is 'idyllic for leisurely drives along the back roads' to take a picnic and 'is best enjoyed by simply taking in the scenery'.
I just love the place.

Dughorm

RobertKK wrote: »

For Kilkenny it is its history and medieval architecture, modern but hasn't lost it's medieval charm which brings in a lot of tourism, and since it is geared up for tourism, festivals and the odd big concert it is a place known for the craic.

I like Kilkenny and in terms of fun places for me it's up there with Carrick-on-Shannon and Galway but it definitely has a 'cosy' feel to it and I wonder does it have the capacity to expand further?

Despite its growth in the last 40 years, Kilkenny still has less than half the population of Waterford, which is small compared to the likes of Galway or Limerick!

RobertKK

Dughorm wrote: »

I like Kilkenny and in terms of fun places for me it's up there with Carrick-on-Shannon and Galway but it definitely has a 'cosy' feel to it and I wonder does it have the capacity to expand further?

Despite its growth in the last 40 years, Kilkenny still has less than half the population of Waterford, which is small compared to the likes of Galway or Limerick!

It has lots of room to expand, but most of the employment is indigenous with the biggest employer being Glanbia. Kilkenny depends on tourism and agriculture, the two biggest areas of employment.

The thing is if Kilkenny keeps expanding at the rate it is, it would be a bigger city than Waterford in the next 100 years.
Waterford have issues with it's expansion, as they want to takeover parts of Kilkenny for their expansion.
Kilkenny has room to expand in all directions.

Dughorm

RobertKK wrote: »

The thing is if Kilkenny keeps expanding at the rate it is, it would be a bigger city than Waterford in the next 100 years.
Waterford have issues with it's expansion, as they want to takeover parts of Kilkenny for their expansion.
Kilkenny has room to expand in all directions.

Does this mean Co. Kilkenny would have two cities?
This all sounds similar to the Limerick City expansion into Co. Clare debate a few years ago! We're a great country when it comes to urban planning!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Galway is an interesting place to be when you;re young - lively scene, big university and so on. I'd imagine most of the people who have moved theer did so from overseas and got fed up with Dublin.

There's no point having great jobs and infrastructure, if the place is boring and offers nothing to do when people have time off.

road_high

The likes of Kilkenny, Galway and others are hugely desirable places to live. Not too big, but excellent facilities in terms of leisure, shopping, lovely ambience and atmosphere. This tends to attract a lot of like minded people to move there. Kilkenny is not too far from Dublin either. I think the opposite when I think of Limerick or Waterford. I would have no desire to ever live or work in either. To me as a young guy they conjure up decline and depression.

road_high

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Galway is an interesting place to be when you;re young - lively scene, big university and so on. I'd imagine most of the people who have moved theer did so from overseas and got fed up with Dublin.

There's no point having great jobs and infrastructure, if the place is boring and offers nothing to do when people have time off.

Galway is class. It offers best of all worlds. Plus you can be out the country in a few minutes to stunning scenery. There's four places I could contemplate living in Ireland - Kilkenny (now), Dublin, cork or Galway.

road_high

Faith+1 wrote: »

Surprised at Cork Cities decrease?

Doesn't include the outer suburbs or satellite towns? Cork city is booming, I think it's a great place. Cork people have a great can do attitude and its reflected in their city and county.

road_high

Rightwing wrote: »

Interesting thread.

Limerick got very few IDA jobs during the FF boom years, in fact it's numbers declined with the dell closure. Now, many jobs are coming back into the region. The difference between Willie O Dea and M Noonan. Politics.

Galway and Cork probably have had strong politicians over the years, whereas Waterford hasn't.

Haven't been down in limerick for a while but I believe it's after picking up a lot after the recession?

lisasimpson

one thing I like about Kilkenny and galway you rarely hear about trouble on nights out in them. they are small and compact good choice of things to do in your down time... I think for any town and city its thing to do in the evening to attract young people to live in them a good choice of restaurants and coffee shops (not just a load of indian and chinesse yes thurles I'm looking at you), cinemas, gyms, sport clubs (not just gaa), arts centre to attract comedy gigs local musicals
Cork is getting there, if the events centre to have gigs year around that will be a good step

road_high

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Politicians maintaining the parish pump usually has most impact.

Maybe in the 70s...nowadays the most successful places are those with people with a can do type attitude that look to develop things for themselves, rather than waiting for the "gubberment" to come and provide everything. Then it's blame everyone else if you don't have a Minister or what not. Galway, Cork and Kilkenny would be successful regardless of a Minister or not. There's a positive image and perception fostered in these cities that acts as a magnet for enterprise and visitors/people to live there.

CHealy

I wouldn't read too much into the official stats to be honest. As has been said, and I can only speak for Cork, but the city boundaries are the same now as they were in 1960, despite the city's urban area over doubling in size. True population of Cork is well over 200k but Ireland being Ireland, the County Council will not give up or come to an agreement about altering the urban area's they hold because they fear a loss of earnings. Even the Minister in the last couple of months has said they will be going ahead with the amalgamation of City and County councils, which in a place the size of Cork is absolutely nuts, and bordering on corrupt. How can someone in Bantry have the same needs as someone in Togher? Two totally different worlds.

Even with that mess though, Cork is in a little boom at the moment and the cranes are starting to appear over the city again. Plenty of new and interesting developments happening in 2016 with the Events Center being the most important one, which would rejuvenate the South Main and Barrack Street side of the city.

ClovenHoof

Quality Public Transport not even on the list. If you can't understand why this is important, you have no idea what proper urban living is to begin with! Motorways FFS!

Tells you some rural TD's nephew Civil Servant created this poll...

Zelda247

The one thing I would say is having lived on the East and West Coast of Ireland you would need to seriously consider the weather as there is a huge difference, it seems to rain all day every day on the West coast and the winds are crazy so from that aspect it can be a really depressing place to live.

Ghost Train

I wonder is the Cork decline due to older style industry around the harbour declining as that industry moved to other parts of the world. Same way industrial parts of England changed in the last 50 years

CHealy

Ghost Train wrote: »

I wonder is the Cork decline due to older style industry around the harbour declining as that industry moved to other parts of the world. Same way industrial parts of England changed in the last 50 years

People are moving to the suburbs like almost every other city, there is no decline. As has been said, Corks urban population is constantly growing, but because of boundary limitations it looks like everyone is leaving.

road_high

Ghost Train wrote: »

I wonder is the Cork decline due to older style industry around the harbour declining as that industry moved to other parts of the world. Same way industrial parts of England changed in the last 50 years

Cork isn't declining though. It's booming, it's just the population growth has been in the suburbs and outer towns like Ballincollig and Midleton.
Older industry has been more than replaced by the likes of Apple and pharma companies.

lisasimpson

cork is doing better now than during the celtic tiger years, the centre is becoming more attractive now. its complete madness thinking one council could do the city and county. just expand the city boundaries... however to continue growing, the traffic network needs serious investments and upgrades.will be interesting to see the results of census coming up

RobertKK

Dughorm wrote: »

Does this mean Co. Kilkenny would have two cities?
This all sounds similar to the Limerick City expansion into Co. Clare debate a few years ago! We're a great country when it comes to urban planning!

No. Waterford in the past got Ferrybank moved from county Kilkenny into county Waterford, currently they are looking to annex more of south Kilkenny, and the people in those areas don't want to be officially Waterford...some blame it on hurling...

Rightwing

road_high wrote: »

Maybe in the 70s...nowadays the most successful places are those with people with a can do type attitude that look to develop things for themselves, rather than waiting for the "gubberment" to come and provide everything. Then it's blame everyone else if you don't have a Minister or what not. Galway, Cork and Kilkenny would be successful regardless of a Minister or not. There's a positive image and perception fostered in these cities that acts as a magnet for enterprise and visitors/people to live there.

It's Government policy that drives a region and indeed the whole economy. Let's look at the IFSC, was it 'can do type attitudes' of the locals or Government policy to designate it a growth area with tax incentives?

Or Galway, qualifying under the BMW with tax incentive schemes, or the locals?

Give me tax breaks over the local attitude anyday of the week.

yabbav

Waterford is hell on earth

Dughorm

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Quality Public Transport not even on the list. If you can't understand why this is important, you have no idea what proper urban living is to begin with! Motorways FFS!

"Transport infrastructure" included in the poll relates to the road, rail, air, sea which makes transport - public or private possible!!!

In case case, dependable public transport is effectively non existant for many locations outside of dublin...

Try getting a train from cork to limerick! why do you think the limerick cork motorway is such a hot topic??

BTW I can't believe you started a thread moaning about the poll in the transport and commuting forum!!!

Dughorm

RobertKK wrote: »

No. Waterford in the past got Ferrybank moved from county Kilkenny into county Waterford, currently they are looking to annex more of south Kilkenny, and the people in those areas don't want to be officially Waterford...some blame it on hurling...

But are they part of the city? Seems a bit daft if they're already part of Waterford City but don't want to be?!

Sounds harsh if they can't play hurling for Kilkenny?!

JeffK88

Newbridge , Kildare in my eyes is a very successful town. The Whitewater SC helped the town continue to grow during the recession , also the transport infrastructure on the M7/M8/M9 Corridor and the main South/Southwest Railway. At present there are plans for a multitude of new shops /Developments etc and the population is growing rapidly. The town is one of the lucky few that does not suffer from major flooding or other weather related events. Location is also a factor only been 50km from Dublin but has its own local economic engine along with Naas rather than over relying on Dublin. A lot of the population commutes but there is significant employment in the local area.The town is also well planned with a series of blocks and defined streets which are wide enough to accommodate cars and pedestrians. Whats missing from the town is the long planned outer relief road and a proper traffic management system. Town suffers with traffic problems similar to a small city.

Dughorm

JeffK88 wrote: »

Newbridge , Kildare in my eyes is a very successful town. The Whitewater SC helped the town continue to grow during the recession , also the transport infrastructure on the M7/M8/M9 Corridor and the main South/Southwest Railway. At present there are plans for a multitude of new shops /Developments etc and the population is growing rapidly. The town is one of the lucky few that does not suffer from major flooding or other weather related events. Location is also a factor only been 50km from Dublin but has its own local economic engine along with Naas rather than over relying on Dublin.Dublin. A lot of the population commutes but there is significant employment in the local area.The town is also well planned with a series of blocks and defined streets which are wide enough to accommodate cars and pedestrians. Whats missing from the town is the long planned outer relief road and a proper traffic management system. Town suffers with traffic problems similar to a small city.

Very interesting post. I have found Newbridge the same and low-and-behold- when we look at the population league table (including suburbs) we see that Newbridge has had the highest population growth in the largest 15 cities and towns from the 2006 to the 2011 census @ 16%. No wonder it has traffic problems!

Census 2016 is going to shake the table up a bit it looks like!

Rank 2011|City/Town|Population|Increase since 2006
1|Dublin|1,110,627|6.2%
2|Cork|198,582|4.3%
3|Limerick|91,454|0.8%
4|Galway|76,778|5.6%
5|Waterford|51,519|4.7%
6|Drogheda|38,578|9.9%
7|Dundalk|37,816|7.8%
8|Swords|36,924|8.6%
9|Bray|31,872|-0.1%
10|Navan|28,559|14.9%
11|Ennis|25,360|4.6%
12|Kilkenny|24,423|10.1%
13|Tralee|23,693|4.2%
14|Carlow|23,030|11.1%
15|Newbridge|21,561|16.4%

RobertKK

Dughorm wrote: »

But are they part of the city? Seems a bit daft if they're already part of Waterford City but don't want to be?!

Sounds harsh if they can't play hurling for Kilkenny?!

I don't know why Waterford can't be happy with what they got. You don't see the same problem with Wexford, where on one side of the Barrow it is New Ross in Wexford and on the other side of the bridge it is Rosbercon.

The thing is none of the Kilkenny people in the contested areas want the boundaries moved so they end up in a different county and province.

Waterford will be looking to takeover Belview port too, which is a great thing for Kilkenny to have.

This from the Kilkenny Journal:

"KILKENNY COUNCIL MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN WATERFORD COUNCIL" - DAVID FITZGERALD.
"Waterford have made a mess of their own city!" - Fitzgerald.
MINISTERS TRY TO RAM THROUGH LAND GRAB WITHOUT A HEARING.
Without a hearing, without a "fair trial", Environment minister Alan Kelly along with his Waterford minister Paudey Coffey try to ram through a Waterford land grab of South Kilkenny, this after all the millions that Kilkenny County Council have poured into the development of the area, especially in recent years.
The elected members of Kilkenny County Council have said they are ‘of one voice’ in their determination to protect the interests of south Kilkenny and the wider county.
The councillors of the Piltown Municipal District convened a special meeting at short notice in the Ferrybank local area office last Wednesday morning to discuss the news that a boundary committee has been established to look at the Waterford/Kilkenny boundary.
“This has been sprung on us in the past week or so,” said chairman of the Piltown MD Pat Dunphy (FG) at that meeting.
“It’s a serious issue for this part of the county, and for the whole of the county really. We need to hear each others’ views and decide on a strategy.”
Then on Friday a special meeting of Kilkenny County Council took place. There was a palpable sense of anger in the council chamber with several councillors making impassioned speeches. At Wednesday's south Kilkenny meeting Cllr Eamon Aylward (FF) had said Ferrybank and south Kilkenny could be developed in a sustainable way without a change to the boundaries.
“We have constantly looked for meetings with Waterford,” he said.
“Just one Waterford councillor showed up when we finally got a meeting. That shows you what interest they have in Ferrybank.
“But this is coming from the Minister, and Paudie Coffey seems to be leading the charge,” he said.
“We all know where he’s from.”
A visibly angry councillor Ger Frisby (FF) said he ‘didn’t feel comfortable in his chair’, and said Coffey and Kelly should resign over this.
“I am shocked,” he said.
“I have lived in Slieverue all my life – it is my home, the culture, the heritage. Alan Kelly and Paudie Coffey don’t live in Slieverue. But with the swing of a pen they are trying to change people’s lives.
“I’m disgusted. I have nothing against Waterford – my father grew up there, I have friends there. But the people of Waterford aren’t looking for this either. It’s an absolute disgrace.”
The councillors are also worried that Kilkenny will end up losing Belview and the all-important port, where significant investment has been made by Kilkenny County Council in recent years.
Cllr Fidelis Doherty described herself as ‘shell-shocked’.
“I can’t believe that this is happening,” she said.
“It is so annoying that it has been put upon us. The implications of a takeover are massive – for the region, our culture and heritage.
“Kilkenny purchased land in Belview to make it happen. Waterford didn’t buy into that. Now that all the work has been done and the heavy lifting has happened...
“It is thousands of acres. If this change happens even the provinces will change. Those areas will go into Munster? It is a shocking development.”
Earlier in the week, she had said the establishment of the boundary committee amounted to an ‘attack’ on south Kilkenny.
“This is going to go on and on,” she said.
“How much of Kilkenny do they want? Is the monster going to raise its head again? Are we going to see another map in ten years time?”
Cllr Pat Dunphy (FG) said a lot of people going to be upset about what was happening.
“We haven’t caused it or looked for it,” he said.
“And we will fight for what is ours. I know that we are all as one here.”
He said that having to deal with the boundary committee over the coming months could seriously curtail the council’s other work.
“This is a worrying development. It is probably far more worrying than the previous time,” he said.
“There are far more important things they should be looking at – we have a housing crisis, and other crises – and they are talking about a boundary extension? The amount of money and resources [that will be needed] for this. I actually can’t believe it. It makes no sense whatsoever.”
Rather, said Cllr Dunphy, Kilkenny County Council should consider seeking a return to the original boundary along the middle of the river.
Cllr Eamon Aylward said he supported this call for a counter-proposal to make the river the boundary. He also said an oral hearing should be insisted upon.
Cllr Tomas Breathnach (LAB) called for a regional approach to the issue. He noted there was a reference to potential financial implications in the boundary committee’s terms of reference, but no reference to the sense of identity and community that people have.
Cllr David Fitzgerald (FG) said that the core objective of Kilkenny County Council was to promote the economic and social needs of Kilkenny. He said that if it had failed in this then Belview and the Ferrybank area would not have seen investment or development.
“But Kilkenny County Council has been hugely successful – more successful than Waterford City and County Council, who have made a mess of their city,” he said.
“We have been successful in south Kilkenny, Waterford City and County Council has not.” He added that, given the seriousness of the situation, it was essential to have an oral hearing. He said that if the boundary committee was to refuse one, Kilkenny County Council should seek a judicial review and have its day in court.

It is a contentious issue in the county, and as you can see you have one councillor in Kilkenny accusing Waterford of having made a mess of their city.

Dughorm

RobertKK wrote: »

It is a contentious issue in the county, and as you can see you have one councillor in Kilkenny accusing Waterford of having made a mess of their city.

Sounds exactly like the articles in the local clare papers a few years back! Clearly people feel very impassioned about this - calling for ministers to resign and everything... but I'm trying to get my head around how their "culture and heritage" will change if the county boundary changes but maybe that's just me.

That's interesting you say that people say that Waterford have made a mess of their city because successful cities/towns is what this thread is all about - is it because of all the job losses or lack of investment? Someone else mentioned a lack of political clout in waterford?

A lot of people were around at the Christmas Winterval there I went to last year so maybe things are turning around?