Marriage to be banned for under 18s

Tim Reilly

Joan Burton has announced that marriage is to be banned for under 18s, Celebrity traveller Kelly McDonagh Mongan has described the move as s disgusting attack on the human rights of the traveling community.

The Randy Riverbeast

Im not sure if marrying minors is a human right.

whatismyname

Got a link for that OP?

Sh1tbag OToole

Joan Burton seems like one of those concerned citizen type people who just wants to get in the way of everyone's fun

eviltwin

I thought the marriage age here has been 18 for a while now hence travellers get married in the UK

whatismyname

eviltwin wrote: »

I thought the marriage age here has been 18 for a while now hence travellers get married in the UK

Apparently there was a loophole.

osarusan

The Government is set to approve the closure of a legal loophole which allows minors aged between 16 and 18 get married.

The loophole, which permitted children in certain special circumstances to get married, is being closed on foot of concerns by welfare groups.

They argue that there is a risk of young women in certain ethnic groups being forced into marriages and at risk of coercion and violence.

Traveller advocacy group Pavee Point said it welcomes the move to close the loophole as they are committed to the minimum age being 18.

Caoimhe McCabe of Pavee Point said that while this move is not specifically aimed at Travellers, they fully support any measures that help children remain in education.

According to CSO figures, 387 minors married at the age of 16 or 17 between 2004 and 2014, which is believed to be a higher number in proportion to other countries.

Tánaiste Joan Burton and Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald will today seek approval to draft legislation to remove the underage exemption for marriages.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/marriage-loophole-for-minors-aged-16-18-set-to-be-closed-371530.html

cantdecide

Great. When will it be banned for the over 18's I wonder?

The Randy Riverbeast

osarusan wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/marriage-loophole-for-minors-aged-16-18-set-to-be-closed-371530.html

Pavee Point agreeing with something. The final seal has been broken, the end is nigh!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

whatismyname

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yes.

Between 2010 and the end of 2014, official figures show 387 teenagers won a court exemption to tie the knot at 16 or 17 after convincing a judge they understood what they were entering in to.

Many of the young newlyweds were from the Traveller community.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/irish-showbiz/reality-star-kelly-mcdonagh-mongan-7020890

L.Jenkins

eviltwin wrote: »

I thought the marriage age here has been 18 for a while now hence travellers get married in the UK

whatismyname wrote: »

Apparently there was a loophole.

You can marry at the age of 17 in Ireland, but it requires the consent of a Parent or Guardian.

whatismyname

Tim Reilly wrote: »

Joan Burton has announced that marriage is to be banned for under 18s, Celebrity traveller Kelly McDonagh Mongan has described the move as s disgusting attack on the human rights of the traveling community.

Where did she say this?

Can only see references to her describing it as 'anti-traveller', nothing about it being an attack on the human rights of the traveller community

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/6806894/Kelly-Laws-to-stop-young-people-getting-married-is-anti-Travellers.html

http://www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/irish-showbiz/reality-star-kelly-mcdonagh-mongan-7020890

whatismyname

Itzy wrote: »

You can marry at the age of 17 in Ireland, but it requires the consent of a Parent or Guardian.

Where'd you hear that?

If you are ordinarily resident in the State, the minimum age at which you may marry is 18 years (unless you have a Court Exemption Order). This is the case even if you marry outside of Ireland. Even if you are not ordinarily resident in the State, you must be over 18 years of age if you wish to marry someone in Ireland.

There is no requirement for parental consent to a marriage, irrespective of the ages of the parties concerned.

In certain special circumstances, you may be able to get a Court Exemption Order allowing the marriage to proceed even if one or both parties are under 18. The court will require you to show:

That there are good reasons for your application

That the granting of such an Exemption Order is in the best interests of the parties to the intended marriage

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

L.Jenkins

whatismyname wrote: »

Where did she say this?

Can only see references to her describing it as 'anti-traveller', nothing about it being an attack on the human rights of the traveller community

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/6806894/Kelly-Laws-to-stop-young-people-getting-married-is-anti-Travellers.html

http://www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/irish-showbiz/reality-star-kelly-mcdonagh-mongan-7020890

I wouldn't read into the opinions printed in the Mirror and Sun all that much. Waste of good toilet paper and what's wrong with waiting a year or two.

whatismyname

Itzy wrote: »

I wouldn't read into the opinions printed in the Mirror and Sun all that much. Waste of good toilet paper and what's wrong with waiting a year or two.

I haven't and wouldn't read anything into the opinions of the Mirror or the Sun, and your point isn't really related to the point being made in the post it's responding to.

I was linking to the only two references I could find online, in asking where the OP found her saying it was a 'disgusting attack on the human rights of the travelling community' as I'm interested to know where she said this. Nothing more.

Hammer89

Itzy wrote: »

You can marry at the age of 17 in Ireland, but it requires the consent of a Parent or Guardian.

In the case of travellers they can kill two birds with one stone.

KomradeBishop

As much as I think the traveller community is badly discriminated against, there are still some instances of arranged/forced marriages in the traveller community, so this is definitely a good thing.

Summer wind

Marriage before the age of 18 is insanity.

Azalea

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Joan Burton seems like one of those concerned citizen type people who just wants to get in the way of everyone's fun

That as a reaction to her banning marriage for under 18s seems strange.

dublinman1990

Good idea to close the loophole.

Anyone marrying someone under the age of 18 should really get their heads examined and wait a year or two to wait out their delay.

Anti Anorak

16 year olds should be in ty or 5th year not getting married.

Oops69

cantdecide wrote: »

Great. When will it be banned for the over 18's I wonder?

Or let them get married but ban weddings , absolutely dread them .

Whyohwhy?

Summer wind wrote: »

Marriage is insanity.

Fyp...

DivingDuck

A very positive move. Sixteen year olds have no business entering into lifelong legal and social contracts.

This is not an attack on the rights of travellers, it is a badly-needed form of protection for all young people in this country.

haveringchick

There was a pregnant 17 year old married here two weeks ago in old fashioned shot gun style
The grandfather of the bride literally dragged the reluctant groom (19) out of the pub and across the street to the church with dire threats of violence
The whole thing was an absolute disgrace
I've not much sympathy for the groom though
At 19 he's already been to prison and is the father of a 5 month old to another teenager

VinLieger

haveringchick wrote: »

There was a pregnant 17 year old married here two weeks ago in old fashioned shot gun style
The grandfather of the bride literally dragged the reluctant groom (19) out of the pub and across the street to the church with dire threats of violence
The whole thing was an absolute disgrace
I've not much sympathy for the groom though
At 19 he's already been to prison and is the father of a 5 month old to another teenager

The priest went along with it? considering how nutty they are about marriage prep courses usually i have a hard time believing this

pgj2015

DivingDuck wrote: »

A very positive move. Sixteen year olds have no business entering into lifelong legal and social contracts.

This is not an attack on the rights of travellers, it is a badly-needed form of protection for all young people in this country.

Neither do 18 year old's to be honest, id say it should be raised to 25.

DivingDuck

pgj2015 wrote: »

Neither do 18 year old's to be honest, id say it should be raised to 25.

Eighteen is considered the age of the majority, and if it's raised for one thing, it would have to be raised for others-- drinking, voting, driving, etc.

I don't think that somebody should be getting married at eighteen either, but once they become an adult, the government has no business preventing them from committing to adult decisions. That should be up to their friends, their family, and their own reason.

haveringchick

VinLieger wrote: »

The priest went along with it? considering how nutty they are about marriage prep courses usually i have a hard time believing this

They had done the obligatory pre marriage course
Once the brides "parent" had given her permission for the charade to go ahead and both parties appeared to be at least no more "cracked" then all of the couples he meets, I don't see what objection the priest could have
They had ticked all the boxes
The groom had been threatened when the pregnancy was announced and was literally frogmarched to this marriage
I have an inside track on this. It's the absolute truth
He has had the bejasus scared out of him
The little bollix has already been done for some of the notorious rural burglaries
He just messed with the wrong family
Edited to add that I think it's a tragedy from beginning to end

Mesrine65

Summer wind wrote: »

Marriage before the age of 18 is insanity.

FYP

star_spotter

Tim Reilly wrote: »

Joan Burton has announced that marriage is to be banned for under 18s, Celebrity traveller Kelly McDonagh Mongan has described the move as s disgusting attack on the human rights of the traveling community.

exceptions will likely be made on ethnic grounds , aidaoin o riordain will insist on it

Annasopra

haveringchick wrote: »

There was a pregnant 17 year old married here two weeks ago in old fashioned shot gun style
The grandfather of the bride literally dragged the reluctant groom (19) out of the pub and across the street to the church with dire threats of violence
The whole thing was an absolute disgrace
I've not much sympathy for the groom though
At 19 he's already been to prison and is the father of a 5 month old to another teenager

Yeah right.

You have to give three months notice

murpho999

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yeah right.

You have to give three months notice

Used to be 3 months but not any more. Think it's 24 hours now but not sure.

The_Valeyard

murpho999 wrote: »

Used to be 3 months but not any more. Think it's 24 hours now but not sure.

Still 3 months

whatismyname

murpho999 wrote: »

Used to be 3 months but not any more. Think it's 24 hours now but not sure.

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/registration_of_marriage.html

Since November 2007, a couple getting married are required to give notification in person of their intention to marry to a Registrar at least 3 months before the intended date of their marriage.

murpho999

whatismyname wrote: »

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/registration_of_marriage.html

Ok fair enough, I thought I'd read somewhere that it had changed and also I remember with the couple last month who were hoping to be the first same sex marriage couple that they that had to give 24 hours notice but hadn't but maybe I misunderstood it.

Either way the story above about the quick Las Vegas style gunshot wedding smells of complete BS anyway.

riffmongous

Just had a quick browse on wikipedia and this will make Ireland one of the strictest countries in europe then, as it looks like the vast majority of other countries allow 16/17 with either parental consent or a court order, same in the US too

haveringchick

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yeah right.

You have to give three months notice

Yes they gave 3 months notice. What made you think they didn't?

haveringchick

murpho999 wrote: »

Ok fair enough, I thought I'd read somewhere that it had changed and also I remember with the couple last month who were hoping to be the first same sex marriage couple that they that had to give 24 hours notice but hadn't but maybe I misunderstood it.

Either way the story above about the quick Las Vegas style gunshot wedding smells of complete BS anyway.

I don't know why you think that things have changed in certain ethnic groups in this country. They haven't at all.
This is a case of a Girl from the Traveller family with serious intellectual issues and social issues in her background, becoming "romantically " involved with a boy from the settled community with similar social issues
That boy shouldn't have "gone" there
But he did
He's paying the price now

Cabaal

DivingDuck wrote: »

A very positive move. Sixteen year olds have no business entering into lifelong legal and social contracts.

This is not an attack on the rights of travellers, it is a badly-needed form of protection for all young people in this country.

You can't legally apply for a loan at 16 years of age so you sure as hell shouldn't be able to sign a contract of marriage,

The vast majority of 16 year olds don't know their head from the arse when it comes to long term life long stuff like marriage,

riffmongous

Cabaal wrote: »

You can't legally apply for a loan at 16 years of age so you sure as hell shouldn't be able to sign a contract of marriage,

The vast majority of 16 year olds don't know their head from the arse when it comes to long term life long stuff like marriage,

Well they can just get a divorce like anyone else

keano_afc

So much for equality. Anyone got Panti's number?

Diamond Doll

murpho999 wrote: »

Ok fair enough, I thought I'd read somewhere that it had changed and also I remember with the couple last month who were hoping to be the first same sex marriage couple that they that had to give 24 hours notice but hadn't but maybe I misunderstood it.

I think that was because they already had a civil partnership.

haveringchick

Diamond Doll wrote: »

I think that was because they already had a civil partnership.

That's right. I couldn't understand how that couple thought they could just turn up and expect the registrar to just fit them in like that.

bigpink

haveringchick wrote: »

I don't know why you think that things have changed in certain ethnic groups in this country. They haven't at all.
This is a case of a Girl from the Traveller family with serious intellectual issues and social issues in her background, becoming "romantically " involved with a boy from the settled community with similar social issues
That boy shouldn't have "gone" there
But he did
He's paying the price now

What happened?

haveringchick

bigpink wrote: »

What happened?

Well he's 19 and he's married to a teenager he met earlier this year who,apart from being borderline special needs, says that the baby she's expecting is his
And her family, some of whom would happily do good time for his murder, are watching him like hawks
So it's not such a happy Crimbo for him.
Then, he's never known any other life other than chaos and strife, so maybe it's my perception from my highly regularised circumstances that's skewed

Annasopra

haveringchick wrote: »

That's right. I couldn't understand how that couple thought they could just turn up and expect the registrar to just fit them in like that.

what?

Annasopra

wp_rathead wrote: »

The travelers won't like this! Oi Oi

They are

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/pavee-point-supports-banning-of-underage-marriage-1.2467777

RobertKK

Could they get married in the church, then register the marriage with the state when 18?

Annasopra

RobertKK wrote: »

Could they get married in the church, then register the marriage with the state when 18?

Why would the Church allow that?