Bentone BF1 problems. Extraneous light..

yamr6

I have a TURCO brand oil boiler with a Bentone BF1 burner. It is 5 years old and it is always going to Lockout and needs to be restarted. It can go a few months in summer without this happening but when weather gets cold then constant cycling causes frequent shutdowns. Now it has gone in to a different shutdown. The manual online has let me figure out the error code which is "extraneous light on burner startup". I cannot find anything on what to do in this case. 2 different oil boiler service lads have said boiler seems to be working fine and no obvious problem. Anyone with any ideas of anything I can try myself?

Wearb

What are the figures on your last service printout?

yamr6

Do not have that printout in file. assume I got one for last service but was not here at time. To be honest not much faith in the 2 service guys I have had out. last guy never heard of my Boiler-Turco, they are a northern ireland company. But burner is Bentone with siemens electrical components so i thought all straightforward, maybe not. Just took out the burner for a look and one of the electrodes is cracked halfway up length.

Wearb

That electrode could very well be the cause of the lockouts.

jimf

those electrodes are very easy to crack if over tightened so could well be arcing onto to burner body

also coil on this burner are famous for causing intermittent lockouts can go fine for a few weeks and then start acting up

yamr6

Changed electrode but made no difference. Will try to get info from spare supplier as to what part is related to the "extraneous light" error.

Wearb

Possibly photocell, but without hands on, we could be guessing a long time.

yamr6

Changed photocell and it seems to have fixed it. Might have been photocell all the time causing intermittent problems and finally gave up ghost. Will know if it is a longterm fix after next cold snap.
Thanks for input.

fme

Hi,
Bit of a coincidence, but I also have a 5 year old turco boiler with a Siemens bentone burner and am getting the same "Extraneous light on burner startup" error, according to
http://www.totaline.com.tr/pdf/SiemensOEMKatalog/LMOn7130e.pdf

I have guy calling tomorrow to hopefully fix it.
Will see if its the same issue...
Cheers.

DGOBS

Extraneous light: Mean light from an external source.

In other words, as the burner starts its 12 second fan pre-purge of the combustion chamber, throughout it is expecting to 'see dark' but during the cycle it is 'seeing light' and will not allow the control box to move further on it's start up sequence as a result.

The light maybe either a) someone trying to fire the bunker while not mounted to the boiler, or b) the PE-cell has failed in the 'seeing light' position (it does this via resistance based on lux intensity)

A simple test to prove if the PE-cell has failed in this manner, is to remove it completely (wired out) from the burner, (warning on electrically isolating appliance before attempting this) and then try fire up the appliance without the PE-cell. This means the burner is 'seeing-dark) and if the PE-cell was the issue the burner will ignite after 12 seconds and then as the PE-cell is not present, the burner will shut down in 5-7 seconds after ignition as it cannot see the flame that was established.

jimf

A simple test to prove if the PE-cell has failed in this manner, is to remove it completely (wired out) from the burner, (warning on electrically isolating appliance before attempting this) and then try fire up the appliance without the PE-cell. This means the burner is 'seeing-dark) and if the PE-cell was the issue the burner will ignite after 12 seconds and then as the PE-cell is not present, the burner will shut down in 5-7 seconds after ignition as it cannot see the flame that was established.

does this work with all burners tony

I know it works with riello

DGOBS

Yes pretty much

fme

Thanks guys. My guy just replaced whole burner to get through the holidays. Has taken ours away to test. Have passed on the above info aswell.
Cheers.

yamr6

Just an update on original problem. The burner has operated perfectly since changing the photocell so looks like a very long standing problem has finally been fixed. €16 well spent.

yamr6

Spoke too soon! As soon as the weather turned cold this morning the same problem has returned. With a new photocell eye installed it was working fine for 2 weeks and then suddenly back to flashing red and green light. I also disconnected the photocell as described and attempted startup and it did fire before shutting down a few seconds later as was expected. If I had not just changed the photo eye i would be sure it was the cause but obviously something else is at play here as well. I have also just changed the front control box with reset light on it, a siemens part, but did no good. At this point I am probably going back to my plan of replacing the whole burner unit with same and surely that will fix it for good.

agusta

Is the fault only happening when the boiler is hot

yamr6

I assume it is happening while hot, as during the cold weather it is obviously cycling on and off more often but if it is like last time then no matter how long i leave it to cool it will not restart. It used to go to lockout all the time in cold weather but would always restart.

Dtp1979

yamr6 wrote: »

I assume it is happening while hot, as during the cold weather it is obviously cycling on and off more often but if it is like last time then no matter how long i leave it to cool it will not restart. It used to go to lockout all the time in cold weather but would always restart.

Just try a new photocell. New parts can be faulty too

JustTheOne

jimf wrote: »

A simple test to prove if the PE-cell has failed in this manner, is to remove it completely (wired out) from the burner, (warning on electrically isolating appliance before attempting this) and then try fire up the appliance without the PE-cell. This means the burner is 'seeing-dark) and if the PE-cell was the issue the burner will ignite after 12 seconds and then as the PE-cell is not present, the burner will shut down in 5-7 seconds after ignition as it cannot see the flame that was established.

does this work with all burners tony

I know it works with riello

Is this not just simulating a no flame present fault?

Why would it point to a faulty photocell?

DGOBS

As PE cells can fail 'seeing light' this causes different symptoms that 'not seeing light', in the latter case the boiler would fire and lockout, simple to see, in the former, it will not fire and may just constantly pre-purge, this can be caused by 3 items, and the test proves the PE cell being the culprit or not (also can be the solenoid or the control box).

This is standard oil burner fault finding procedure. :cool:

JustTheOne

DGOBS wrote: »

As PE cells can fail 'seeing light' this causes different symptoms that 'not seeing light', in the latter case the boiler would fire and lockout, simple to see, in the former, it will not fire and may just constantly pre-purge, this can be caused by 3 items, and the test proves the PE cell being the culprit or not (also can be the solenoid or the control box).

This is standard oil burner fault finding procedure. :cool:

Sorry maybe I worded it wrong.


"This means the burner is 'seeing-dark) and if the PE-cell was the issue the burner will ignite after 12 seconds and then as the PE-cell is not present, the burner will shut down in 5-7 seconds after ignition as it cannot see the flame that was established."

The explanation above that if you disconnect the cell and it will lock out as it doesn't see light is pretty obvious.

So my question is how can that diagnose a cell seen extraneous light if its going to lockout anyway seems its disconnected?

I'm not been smart or awkward just trying to get my head around it:)

jimf

if im reading his post correctly tony is explaining the 3 most likely causes of a burner running constantly without either igniting or going to lockout


if a p cell goes faulty as it sees a false light it will stop the control box proceeding to the next phase of ignition and will just hum its little heart out for hours as happy as a pig in sh1t

JustTheOne

jimf wrote: »

if im reading his post correctly tony is explaining the 3 most likely causes of a burner running constantly without either igniting or going to lockout


if a p cell goes faulty as it sees a false light it will stop the control box proceeding to the next phase of ignition and will just hum its little heart out for hours as happy as a pig in sh1t

Ah yeah I know that I was just trying to figure out how disconnecting a photocell and letting it fail would diagnose extraneous light as suggested on the first page of posts.

DGOBS

Thanks jim, it was an explanation of 'extraneous light' ....meaning the PE Cell sees an external light source (or fails 'seeing light') and how to test for it.

jimf

DGOBS wrote: »

Thanks jim, it was an explanation of 'extraneous light' ....meaning the PE Cell sees an external light source (or fails 'seeing light') and how to test for it.

your just better with big words than me :o

JustTheOne

DGOBS wrote: »

Thanks jim, it was an explanation of 'extraneous light' ....meaning the PE Cell sees an external light source (or fails 'seeing light') and how to test for it.

So removing the photocell and letting it just go to lockout proves what exactly?

DGOBS

Last time, it proves the PE cell has or hasn't failed in the 'seeing light' status, i.e. extraneous light.
I cannot simplify this any further for you, it is a manufacturer's recommended test method.

As explained already:

As PE cells can fail 'seeing light' this causes different symptoms that 'not seeing light', in the latter case the boiler would fire and lockout, simple to see, in the former, it will not fire and may just constantly pre-purge, this can be caused by 3 items, and the test proves the PE cell being the culprit or not (also can be the solenoid or the control box).

your just better with big words than me

Like beetroot or marmalade

fme

Just a quick update in my situation.
The plumber had taken my burner away, giving me a temp one for a couple weeks.
After testing he found that the control box, rather than the photocell, was faulty and replaced that. He also replaced the capacitor.
However just after reinstalling on my boiler the photocell went too so he had to go get a new one of those.
Now with all that done the boiler has been working ok for a week so far...

Dtp1979

fme wrote: »

Just a quick update in my situation.
The plumber had taken my burner away, giving me a temp one for a couple weeks.
After testing he found that the control box, rather than the photocell, was faulty and replaced that. He also replaced the capacitor.
However just after reinstalling on my boiler the photocell went too so he had to go get a new one of those.
Now with all that done the boiler has been working ok for a week so far...

If it goes again, call a priest

DGOBS

So by reason of deduction....the issue was the PE-cell all along?

If it goes again, call a priest

Preferably once thats Oftec registered.....

DGOBS

So by reason of deduction....the issue was the PE-cell all along?

If it goes again, call a priest

Preferably once thats Oftec registered.....