FREE Netatmo with every €79 Gas Boiler Service

Redgirl82

This might be useful to some people, I am looking Energia and found this.

https://www.energia.ie/energy-services/free-netatmo-with-every-gas-boiler-service-%E2%82%AC79

Not sure how good Netatmo is, I have Climote installed myself....

There seems to be some strange requirement to get the unit free

Netatmo is suitable for many homes but you must have the following:

• Your existing heating system, controls and boiler must be compatible with Netatmo. Please see the compatibility checker at www.netatmo.com
• Your system must be a single zone system that is capable of being upgraded to a system that qualifies as Entry Level Heating Controls with Remote Access according to SEAI’s Code of Practice and Standards and Specifications Guidelines.
• Your home must have been built prior to 2007.
• Previous upgrades to your boiler or heating system carried out by you or previous occupiers may render your home ineligible for Netatmo under SEAI’s Better Energy Homes programme guidelines.
• A wireless broadband router and good wi-fi coverage across your home and a smartphone, tablet, PC or laptop with Android, Apple or Windows (BlackBerry phones are not compatible)

jimmycrackcorm

Not for combi boilers I think.

eringobragh

It's €179 on the devices website - the cynic in me says theres some sort of catch

Fees and payment
3.1. In consideration of Energia (or its agent(s) or Subcontractor(s)) supplying and installing the
Netatmo Thermostat, Energia is entitled to any energy credits attributable to the installation
of the Netatmo Thermostat at your Premises under SEAI’s Better Energy Scheme or any
replacement or similar scheme pursuant to Directive 2012/27/EU of the European Parliament
and of the Council of 25 October 2012 on energy efficiency.
3.2. Energia (or its agent(s) or Subcontractor(s)) will send you an invoice (the “Invoice”) within [30]
days of completion of any Additional Works setting out any fee payable and any other amounts
due to Energia pursuant to this Agreement, together with any applicable VAT thereon. You shall
pay such amounts by cleared funds within 14 days of the date of the Invoice.
3.3. We will charge VAT at the appropriate rate. All prices quoted are exclusive of VAT except where
VAT is expressly stated to be included.
3.4. This obligation to pay the Energia any sum due pursuant to the Invoice continues until this
Agreement ends in accordance with clause 7 below, even if you leave the Premises beforehand.
3.5. If you do not pay Energia any sum due pursuant to the Invoice within 14 days of the date of the
Invoice Energia may charge you (i) late payment interest at the rate of 2% above EURIBOR for the
period from the due date to the date payment is received and (ii) reasonable costs of trying to
recover overdue payments.
3.6. You shall pay all amounts due under this Agreement in full without any deduction or withholding
except as required by law and you shall not be entitled to assert any credit, set-off or counterclaw

crabbypaddy

eringobragh wrote: »

It's €179 on the devices website - the cynic in me says theres some sort of catch

Its probably a fiddle to 'reduce carbon emissions' a bit like when suppliers gave out free cfls in the uk.

bk

Reading the terms and conditions it says:

Energia is entitled to any energy credits attributable to the installation of the Netatmo Thermostat at your Premises under SEAI’s Better EnergyScheme

From the SEAI website:

The Better Energy Homes scheme provides grants to homeowners who invest in energy efficiency improvements in one or more of the following areas: Roof Insulation, Wall Insulation, Installation of a High Efficiency (> 90%) Gas or Oil fired Boiler, Heating Control Upgrades and Solar panels.

So I could be wrong, but I'm guessing this government grant is actually paying for the thermostat.

BTW In most cases, these devices are super easy to install. I have a similar one myself. It should only take the person who is doing the boiler service about 10 extra minutes to install this when they are there anyway.

BionicRasher

So essentially they get the grant for heating controls upgrade.
From the SEAI site
Heating Controls Upgrade - €600

So they give you a gizmo worth ~€179 and get the 600 on your behalf.

Much better option IMO is this

http://smartzone.ie

I have it ordered and should be installed in a few weeks so will post with feedback

bk

BionicRasher wrote: »

So they give you a gizmo worth ~€179 and get the 600 on your behalf.

600 is only the max, obviously they won't get more then what the device and install is worth.

bk

BionicRasher wrote: »

Much better option IMO is this

http://smartzone.ie

I have it ordered and should be installed in a few weeks so will post with feedback

Looks interesting, but the site is light on information.

How much does it cost? I'm always suspicous of products who aren't upfront on their costs.

Also no videos or demos of their control apps, not good. And is there a way to control the system if wifi is down, doesn't look like it!

Is their an ongoing subscription to use the service/apps?

Please do update us on how it goes, could be a good system for my parents.

cletus

BionicRasher wrote: »

So essentially they get the grant for heating controls upgrade.
From the SEAI site
Heating Controls Upgrade - €600

So they give you a gizmo worth ~€179 and get the 600 on your behalf.

Much better option IMO is this

http://smartzone.ie

I have it ordered and should be installed in a few weeks so will post with feedback

Are you getting the system free? What are the criteria? Last question, is there a sliding scale if you don't qualify for a free setup

Gumbo

bk wrote: »

Looks interesting, but the site is light on information.

How much does it cost? I'm always suspicous of products who aren't upfront on their costs.

Also no videos or demos of their control apps, not good. And is there a way to control the system if wifi is down, doesn't look like it!

Is their an ongoing subscription to use the service/apps?

Please do update us on how it goes, could be a good system for my parents.

cletus wrote: »

Are you getting the system free? What are the criteria? Last question, is there a sliding scale if you don't qualify for a free setup

I'm currently waiting for Smartzone to survey my house for this system. Completely free for homes constructed and occupied before 2006 IIRC.

There's a few things required, wifi, cylinder jacket and you then get a follow up BER afterwards.

If your pipe work is not capable of splitting zones, then you may have to pay the installer a small fee to fit some connections to allow the zoning.

ted1

eringobragh wrote: »

It's €179 on the devices website - the cynic in me says theres some sort of catch

Energy suppliers can claim the credit on savings they make by reducing customers demand. It's a carbon reduction initiative that aims to reduce CO2, it's not a catch

ted1

BionicRasher wrote: »

So essentially they get the grant for heating controls upgrade.
From the SEAI site
Heating Controls Upgrade - €600

So they give you a gizmo worth ~€179 and get the 600 on your behalf.

Much better option IMO is this

http://smartzone.ie

I have it ordered and should be installed in a few weeks so will post with feedback

Not quite like that, 600 will go to splitting zones etc. In my opinion the smart zone doesn't look that good.

The site is light on information. Doesn't seem to look st occupancy levels, external temp sensors etc

BionicRasher

bk wrote: »

Looks interesting, but the site is light on information.

How much does it cost? I'm always suspicous of products who aren't upfront on their costs.

Also no videos or demos of their control apps, not good. And is there a way to control the system if wifi is down, doesn't look like it!

Is their an ongoing subscription to use the service/apps?

Please do update us on how it goes, could be a good system for my parents.

As per site (there is a decent bit of information contained in the Help pages)


*Free installation only applies to properties that meet the property grant funding suitability criteria. **Properties must have been built and occupied before the end of 2005. Properties cannot already have claimed the same government grant funding in the past. Properties must be capable of being zoned for heating and hot water. Properties must meet some other minor suitability criteria which will be covered during the Home Energy Assessment

So I had the survey. Free for me and they will zone the house. Upstairs and downstairs and hot water.
No subscriptions

No way to control if WiFi is down but it will continue to heat at the last know temperature you set before wifi went so that's covered.

Seems more comprehensive than Netatmo as its expandable. Unless I am missing something on that system.

BionicRasher

Seems this is the system that Smartzone are using
http://istabai.com

Android app

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=draugiemgroup.istabai

Video on vimeo but for some reason I can't post a link from my phone

loyatemu

if the system can only be controlled from an app, what happens if Smartzone and/or Istabai (what terrible company name!) go out of business - you could end up having to rip and replace the whole system... AFAIK Nest will still work even if you can't control it remotely, and anyway Google are unlikely to go bust in the near future.

BionicRasher

loyatemu wrote: »

if the system can only be controlled from an app, what happens if Smartzone and/or Istabai (what terrible company name!) go out of business - you could end up having to rip and replace the whole system... AFAIK Nest will still work even if you can't control it remotely, and anyway Google are unlikely to go bust in the near future.

Same as any other system really. What happens if your internet provider goes out if business.....you are stuck with their hardware. Etc.
Yes as stated control not possible if Internet is down but it continues to operate at the last set temperature

Anyway it's a bit off topic and maybe I will fire up a thread of its own.

postsnthing

BionicRasher wrote: »

Anyway it's a bit off topic and maybe I will fire up a thread of its own.

I wasn't aware that there were other options so thanks for bring this up here, if its a better use of the one time only grant and gives better bang for buck i would prefer that. Don't really know which is best option now, Netatmo or Smartzone !!! Really wish both had more info available

postsnthing

ted1 wrote: »

Not quite like that, 600 will go to splitting zones etc. In my opinion the smart zone doesn't look that good.

The site is light on information. Doesn't seem to look st occupancy levels, external temp sensors etc

Any alternatives you would suggest Ted1 which is paid by the grant and don't have an upfront cost ?

loyatemu

BionicRasher wrote: »

Same as any other system really. What happens if your internet provider goes out if business.....you are stuck with their hardware.

If my ISP goes bust I'll have to sign up with a new one but they'll supply me with a router and installation is usually free (and my existing router will generally still be accessible and reconfigurable).

If these guys go bust, I'll have to to remove all their kit and replace it either with a new system like Nest, or standard thermostats; but either way I won't get another grant and it'll cost me a lot of money.

Gumbo

loyatemu wrote: »

If my ISP goes bust I'll have to sign up with a new one but they'll supply me with a router and installation is usually free (and my existing router will generally still be accessible and reconfigurable).

If these guys go bust, I'll have to to remove all their kit and replace it either with a new system like Nest, or standard thermostats; but either way I won't get another grant and it'll cost me a lot of money.

Do you lose manual controls from within the dwelling?

bk

BionicRasher wrote: »

No way to control if WiFi is down but it will continue to heat at the last know temperature you set before wifi went so that's covered.

To be honest with you, having owned a wifi thermostat for the past two years, that sounds awful!!!!

What if a person doesn't have a smart phone?

This eliminates this system for my parents right off, my dad has a smart phone, but mom doesn't and she is too old to ever really learn to use one.

What if you have kids that are too young to have a smartphone yet?

What if elderly people or kids are visiting with a smartphone? Even visiting friends, what a pain having to give them you username and password in order to use this system!

And then what if your broadband goes down? Or you smart phone dies?

Having your heating stuck on or off at too hot or too cold would be a pain and possibly miserable.

Also in my experience of actually using a wifi thermostat, I'd say we use the physical control about 70% of the time, smartphone app only 30% of the time.

I've been messing with home automation technology a lot. I've an apartment full of Philips Hue lighs, wifi thermostat, Logitch Harmony romotes, etc.

But having such systems I've learned the importance of physical controls. Often it is much easier to just hit the light switch or heating button to turn them on/off in daily use and specially when other, less techie people are visiting.

This is the first time I've heard of a wifi thermostat that doesn't also have physical controls. It wouldn't cost them more then €30 to add a very basic screen and two buttons, so this makes me think this is a very poor system.

I really wouldn't recommend this set up to anyone.

BionicRasher wrote: »

Same as any other system really. What happens if your internet provider goes out if business.....you are stuck with their hardware. Etc.
Yes as stated control not possible if Internet is down but it continues to operate at the last set temperature

Most of the ISP's in Ireland are massive, multiple billion dollar companies and certainly aren't going anywhere.

But in my experience, with the exception of Nest (owned by Google) and one or two others, most home automation companies are extremely small, typically just a few people trying to develop a new cutting edge technology. And yes many do go under and leave people stuck up **** creak.

That is why when I bought my wifi thermostat, I bought one that was cheap (just €130) so I wouldn't be risking much and that it had physical controls, so that I always had a backup if it went bust.

kceire wrote: »

I'm currently waiting for Smartzone to survey my house for this system. Completely free for homes constructed and occupied before 2006 IIRC.

It is a little confusing, according to this information leaflet on the SEAI website, these grants don't appear to be open to everyone:

http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Better_energy_homes/Better-Energy-Homes-Leaflet-2015.pdf

The upgrades are free to eligible homeowners in receipt of certain benefits including:
- Fuel Allowance
- Job Seekers Allowance for over six months and with children under 7 years of age
- Family Income Support

ted1

postsnthing wrote: »

Any alternatives you would suggest Ted1 which is paid by the grant and don't have an upfront cost ?

Any system will be covered by grants Nest, Hive, Climote, tado. The expense is the plumbing the unit pricing is all more or less on par

upandcumming

bk wrote:

That is why when I bought my wifi thermostat, I bought one that was cheap (just €130) so I wouldn't be risking much and that it had physical controls, so that I always had a backup if it went bust.

What did you get? Any links?

BionicRasher

bk wrote: »

To be honest with you, having owned a wifi thermostat for the past two years, that sounds awful!!!!

What if a person doesn't have a smart phone?

This eliminates this system for my parents right off, my dad has a smart phone, but mom doesn't and she is too old to ever really learn to use one.

What if you have kids that are too young to have a smartphone yet?

What if elderly people or kids are visiting with a smartphone? Even visiting friends, what a pain having to give them you username and password in order to use this system!

Seriously - for a start I don't let my young kids (or my visiting friends for that matter) control the heating in the house.
To get the most out of any 'smart heating system' you need to have a smartphone/tablet/pc

bk wrote: »

And then what if your broadband goes down? Or you smart phone dies?

Having your heating stuck on or off at too hot or too cold would be a pain and possibly miserable.

In this house for 5 1/2 years now and I dont every remember the broadband being down. Not to say it wont happen but its rare for me and any others I know anyway. But yes I agree - physical controls would be a nice addition.
Seems other systems are in a similar situation - If the relay box loses its connection to your router, or your internet goes down, the systems will carry on following the schedule you set until the connection is restored.

bk wrote: »

I really wouldn't recommend this set up to anyone.

3 houses in our area have this installed - next door included. I have spoken to 2 of these people and they both love the system and find it extremely easy to use. Lets wait and see if it saves them some money too.

bk wrote: »

Most of the ISP's in Ireland are massive, multiple billion dollar companies and certainly aren't going anywhere.

But in my experience, with the exception of Nest (owned by Google) and one or two others, most home automation companies are extremely small, typically just a few people trying to develop a new cutting edge technology. And yes many do go under and leave people stuck up **** creak.

That is why when I bought my wifi thermostat, I bought one that was cheap (just €130) so I wouldn't be risking much and that it had physical controls, so that I always had a backup if it went bust.

So I just buy a cheap physical controller when Smartzone go bust

bk wrote: »

It is a little confusing, according to this information leaflet on the SEAI website, these grants don't appear to be open to everyone:

http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Better_energy_homes/Better-Energy-Homes-Leaflet-2015.pdf

The upgrades are free to eligible homeowners in receipt of certain benefits including:
- Fuel Allowance
- Job Seekers Allowance for over six months and with children under 7 years of age
- Family Income Support

Thats the warmer homes scheme you are looking at

The Heating controls upgrade is part of the Better Energy Homes scheme - This scheme provides grants to homeowners to upgrade their homes with energy efficiency measures, thus reducing energy use, costs and greenhouse gas emissions.

ted1 wrote: »

Any system will be covered by grants Nest, Hive, Climote, tado. The expense is the plumbing the unit pricing is all more or less on par

True they are all covered but to get a zoned system with water heating controls though Nest would cost well in excess of the grant

From what I have seen in my investigations here are essentially two types of smart thermostat. One controls the heating in the entire house and the other lets you adjust temperature in different zones. Netatmo, Climote, Nest, Hive and Tado fall into the former category and systems such as Heat Genius and Honeywell, Smartzone fall into the latter.


Think its time to fire up a thread of its own instead of hogging this BA

bk

upandcumming wrote: »

What did you get? Any links?

This is the system I have:

https://www.inspirehomeautomation.co.uk/

Not the prettiest, but works very well. I'm not sure if it is covered under this grant though.

And yes, they do have a version that covers multiple zones and hot water, while having a screen and manual controls.

BionicRasher wrote:

To get the most out of any 'smart heating system' you need to have a smartphone/tablet/pc

Yes, to get the most out of a smart home heating system you need a smartphone *, but owning one of these myself, I can assure you that the smartphone being the only way to control it is extremely limiting and I simply couldn't recommend such a system to anyone.

* Actually Nest doesn't need the smartphone to get the most out of it, it uses built in sensors to detect when people are home or not and adjust accordingly.

BTW I have the say the whole concept of having to "plumb in" two or more zones is pretty archaic with the technology we have now. Instead you should be able to get wireless radiator thermostats, which would allow you to basically have a "Virtual" zone per room. Something like these:

http://radiatorthermostats.danfoss.com/products/living-by-danfoss/living-connect/

Though unfortunately these sort of systems haven't seemingly hit the Irish market yet.

BionicRasher

bk wrote: »

BTW I have the say the whole concept of having to "plumb in" two or more zones is pretty archaic with the technology we have now. Instead you should be able to get wireless radiator thermostats, which would allow you to basically have a "Virtual" zone per room. Something like these:

http://radiatorthermostats.danfoss.com/products/living-by-danfoss/living-connect/

Though unfortunately these sort of systems haven't seemingly hit the Irish market yet.

Or something like this (which is available as part of the Smartzone system according to the assessor guy that came to my house.) I may get a few as I can then control the spare bedrooms independently.

http://istabai.com/product#device-wireless-regulator

Mark..

Does this replace just the thermostat in the hall and work alongside the controls for hot water/just heat? Or does it replace the lot thermostat and controls for hot water and heat?

bk

BionicRasher wrote: »

Or something like this (which is available as part of the Smartzone system according to the assessor guy that came to my house.) I may get a few as I can then control the spare bedrooms independently.

http://istabai.com/product#device-wireless-regulator

It is so weird, this system has all the elements of a really good, complete system. But then it leaves out the most important part, a simple, €30 LCD screen and a few buttons for physical control, without which, this system is unsuitable for so many people.

Hopefully they correct this and add a physical control accessory in a future release.

upandcumming

bk wrote: »

This is the system I have:

https://www.inspirehomeautomation.co.uk/

Not the prettiest, but works very well. I'm not sure if it is covered under this grant though.

And yes, they do have a version that covers multiple zones and hot water, while having a screen and manual controls.

Thanks for that!
I am looking for something far more basic: something that will replace this:

Basically a switch that will connect to my router that I can control from outside the home. No need for zones or temperature settings or anything!
Would anyone be able to recommend anything please?

Redgirl82

upandcumming wrote: »

Thanks for that!
I am looking for something far more basic: something that will replace this:

Basically a switch that will connect to my router that I can control from outside the home. No need for zones or temperature settings or anything!
Would anyone be able to recommend anything please?

I have climote which I replaced a similar controls. I asked them as part of deal to put in wireless thermostat so I can move that around the house

Works perfect

The only issue with Climote is that it uses a SIM so you get a yearly charge

bk

upandcumming wrote: »

Basically a switch that will connect to my router that I can control from outside the home. No need for zones or temperature settings or anything!
Would anyone be able to recommend anything please?

Either the wired version of The Inspired Home Automation one I linked to above or the Netatmo are exactly what you need.

They will simply directly replace your existing switch. I did it myself in 15 minutes.

While they do have extra features, such as programming ability, you can simply ignore all that and simply turn them on or off remotely via browser or smart phone.

It is what I do 99% of the time, almost never use the programming and I don't have zones as I live in an apartment which really doesn't need it.

BTW you can also get a wireless version of mine, if you want to put the thermostat in a different room. I would get this one now if I had the option (I'd rather it measured the temperature of my living room, then my hall), but it wasn't available at the time.