ESVE Installation question

BoatMad

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Hang on a second your argument is that its not inconvenient, to walk back and forth getting your hands dirty and wet every day but getting the plug changed on your evse every couple of years is inconvenient.

connectors are the biggest point of failure, madness to be plugging the same one in and out every day , tethered for domestic , where there is the same car, is best

Besides the fact that you will probably want to change the evse every few years as the technology improves.

not really , theres nothing in them to upgrade

Even if a tethered cable did turn out to be less reliable (highly unlikely) getting it fixed occasionally would still be more convenient than getting dirty wet hands daily.

Any EE will tell you a proper strained relieved connection is always more reliable then a connector , in a connector based cable, you have both the connector to fail and the strain relief to the connector to fail , that two things !!!

I understand this is down to personal preference but even so the arguments presented against tethered are weak at best.

weak doesn't been come close to describing it, its just wrong

heliguyheliguy

BoatMad wrote: »

The increase is less then a cent and the night rate is over half!!!!

given your EV will be the highest electricity consumer, night rates is a no brainer

the uplift in the standing charge is minimal

I used 8500 kwh last year and am guesstimating approx 4000 kwh for the ev at my mileage.
that would equate to about a third of my usage, I used bonkers.ie to compare both scenarios and the saving was less than 100 euro, that for me is not worth the hassle of having to watch the time of usage.
I'm open to correction if I've missed something.

Is there a charge to have a night meter fitted?

Fastpud

Could you not just leave your cable plugged to the EVSE so it acts like a tethered one?
I think the cable is safe once it is not plugged into the car.
You could even get a dummy female J1772 and mount it beside the EVSE to plug in the loose end so it is not lying on the ground. Saw one on ebay for €84

Fastpud

This is even cheaper:

ebay.ie/itm/J1772-Type-1-EV-Cables-Holdster-Keep-your-EV-charging-cable-tidy-and-safe-/281791067137?hash=item419c0e7401:g:c1AAAOSwu4BVrfN2

heliguyheliguy

Fastpud wrote: »

Could you not just leave your cable plugged to the EVSE so it acts like a tethered one?
I think the cable is safe once it is not plugged into the car.
You could even get a dummy female J1772 and mount it beside the EVSE to plug in the loose end so it is not lying on the ground. Saw one on ebay for €84

You could but I would worry about it being nicked, might never happen but I would rather not have to think about it.

€80 for what? if its a cable that's a great price (link please)

if its the dummy receptacle they go for about tenner on ebay normally. link

Fastpud

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

if its the dummy receptacle they go for about tenner on ebay normally.

It was the dummy receptacle I had in the second link. Not sure why the link didn't work but as I'm still new I couldn't edit the post once I saw it was broken.

steelboots

Based on Airtricity's rates, if you use over 27% of you elec over night then it starts to pay. It's free to switch to night saver but if you want to switch back within the year there is a charge €170.

I worked out it would pay to go onto night saver, bear in mind if you have delay timers on washers, dryers and dishwashers then you can use them at night. Also bear in mind the fridge, alarm, electric stuff on stand by are all running overnight.

Night saver runs from 11pm to 8am in the winter and 12pm to 9am which so you might be able to have your shower and boil your kettle on the night rate in the morning.

heliguyheliguy

steelboots wrote: »

Based on Airtricity's rates, if you use over 27% of you elec over night then it starts to pay. It's free to switch to night saver but if you want to switch back within the year there is a charge €170.

I worked out it would pay to go onto night saver, bear in mind if you have delay timers on washers, dryers and dishwashers then you can use them at night. Also bear in mind the fridge, alarm, electric stuff on stand by are all running overnight.

Night saver runs from 11pm to 8am in the winter and 12pm to 9am which so you might be able to have your shower and boil your kettle on the night rate in the morning.

That sounds about what I worked out to, I'm just not sure its worth bothering with trying to only charge at night.

tbh I'm a bit disappointed, you'd think it would be more clear cut.

And while I'm moaning why should the day rate cost more when you get a night meter, surely it would make more sense for day rate to be the same as everybody else pays and you get a discount for what you use off peak, seams to me that, it then would do a much better job of load balancing which is supposed to be the point.

Most of your charging will be done at night but you will find yourself charging more during the day than you think to top up or if you find yourself needing to do more driving than you thought, add in foul weather. If your commute is small then you might get away with 100-120 kms from an over night charge and 3.3 kw is fine if you got very predictable schedules.

This is the reason I'm getting the 32 amp home EVSE next year because sometimes I have to visit the Carlow QC if I find myself having to pop out unexpectedly which is 10 Km away and not so bad if I'm going that direction but sometimes it's not and I could find myself turning back after the charge to go the opposite direction which is adding unnecessary Kms and counter productive.

With the 32 amp and the 6.6 Kw it will most likely just leave the house with plenty of range and not have to go out of my way to a QC but for busy households, all that pottering around, school runs, shops and after school chauffeuring, you will find yourself using the Leaf much more than you thought and topping up at home quickly can be a real benefit.

With the 60 Kwh Leaf, you would do practically all your charging at night and may not even need to charge every night never mind top up during the day and trips to the QC would be very rare.

BoatMad

With the 60 Kwh Leaf, you would do practically all your charging at night and may not even need to charge every night never mind top up during the day and trips to the QC would be very rare

I ask you again to do the maths on 60 kWh on a standard fit Esb EVSE. The time period doesn't add up.

Home charging is a niche , because current batteries are small. It has no long term future as battery capacity grows.

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

Home charging is a niche , because current batteries are small. It has no long term future as battery capacity grows.

I disagree, the important metric for whether home charging is useful is whether it can provide enough power overnight to do your average daily journeys.

That's a function of how efficiently the car is propelled down the road, not the ultimate capacity of the battery.

Home charging is just as valuable to the Model S owners I know who have 85-90 kWh packs. While my vehicle averages 270 Wh/km they get 330 Wh/km, which is largely down to the difference in weight between the vehicles. And as the density per kg of the packs increase we'll eventually reach a point of diminishing returns where reducing the weight of the pack is going to be more advantageous to the average consumer than increasing the capacity. We might even reach that point before metal air batteries come on stream.

For people with the space to park and fit the EVSE, home charging will continue to be their primary source of power.

Well since most people won't be travelling more than 80 Kms daily, the 60 Kwh can be charged over several days if needs be, and be ready for that long trip when you need it, if you're doing 300 kms daily then home charging 60 kwh @ 3-6 kw is still practical over 10 hrs at 30 odd amps. Plenty of time when most people get home from work by the time they need to head out to work again.

Not many driving 300 kms daily.

sgalvin

cros13 wrote: »

I disagree, the important metric for whether home charging is useful is whether it can provide enough power overnight to do your average daily journeys.

That's a function of how efficiently the car is propelled down the road, not the ultimate capacity of the battery.

Home charging is just as valuable to the Model S owners I know who have 85-90 kWh packs. While my vehicle averages 270 Wh/km they get 330 Wh/km, which is largely down to the difference in weight between the vehicles. And as the density per kg of the packs increase we'll eventually reach a point of diminishing returns where reducing the weight of the pack is going to be more advantageous to the average consumer than increasing the capacity. We might even reach that point before metal air batteries come on stream.

For people with the space to park and fit the EVSE, home charging will continue to be their primary source of power.

I think the home charging at night would become more important as ev rises.

Family size cars use about 16-20 kWh/100km and again an 80km commute is on the upper end for the majority of people. We therefore need about 20kwh per day and cars are parked whilst people sleep for 8 hours so 2.5 kW charging is adequate for most people's usage.

Fast charging is required for atypical use but should be a small % of the overall.

For typical use I will use about 4,000kWh/year for one car only.

The domestic average is 5,300 for a home.

So every car is not far off the use of another typical home.

If cars are charged during the day we will simply need more power stations for higher peak loads!
Cars can be charged at night with little inconvenience will use spare capacity that is already there using the more efficient base load generation plant

IE spread your charging throughout the night, not everyone charging at 20kW from 11pm to midnight!

Chargers and electricity meters will probably become smarter and more integrated allowing people to choose a faster more expensive charge or a much cheaper/free charge where there is excess electricity.

at the moment there isn't enough of incentive for me to charge at night. I'd save €300 on electricity, loose €50 on the extra meter rental, probably €100 for some sort of timer option on my charger.

Yeah most people will charge at night, but the point I was making is that even if you only have 3 Kw with the 60 Kwh battery ( which would really be stupid) you could still build that over several days because most people won't even use 20 kwh per day never mind 60 Kwh.