Rejoice - Infosys creates 250 jobs in Dublin....but what about AIB ?

Badly Drunk Boy

I deal with people from Infosys (in Mumbai) every day. Some days (like today), I feel like my head is melting...

asherbassad

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

So is this true or bullsh!t? I assume the latter.

In the IT world there is now practically ZERO reason to have IT staff anywhere near the company for whom they work. The only human presence that is needed is in the event of hardware failure at data centres and even this is fobbed off to on-call "Smart Hands" operations.

Remote access via ILO can determine if a machine is hung or hard down. If inaccesible, pick up the phone at 3 am and have some guy from a dispatch point gun over to the server farm and follow your instructions. That's it.

The company could be in Dublin. The data centre could be in Eindhoven. The guy doing the talking could be in Bangalore.

RDM_83 again

So basically they are creating 95 probably decent jobs, 155 likely short term definitely underpaid and stressed out phone jockeys.
The decent secure jobs with the old department are definitely totally we promise completely secure and will in no way get shafted after the feel good factor of a jobs creation story has been forgotten about.
Good to know everything is ok

questionmark?

asherbassad wrote: »

Of course they're not "bringing" 250 Indians over from the Sub-Continent. The DBA, Unix/Linux/Cloud/Admin, Content, Administration, Development and Coding work will be done by Indians IN India.

I've seen WIPRO, Infosys and Tech-Mahindra operate before. They're boiler-rooms for tech slave labour.

That was what the OP suggested. I responded saying it's incorrect.

Mehapoy

keithclancy wrote: »

What's wrong with 250 Indian people coming to Ireland ? Irish people like popping up like Herpes all over the world, the least you could do is welcome people to Ireland.

Great, they're welcome but if they're replacing native staff(of whatever nationality) with imported workers on worse pay and conditions then that isnt right. The people trumpeting this as a net gain in jobs when in actual fact it is just replacing native workers with outsourced staff is wrong. Infosys are well known for this, in common with the other outsourcers working in the IT industry.

Fleawuss

Stheno wrote: »

Did you even read the link that said ain have said there will be no redundancies?

No. I read the OP.
Having read the link I am even more confused. They keep all their current staff and outsource work that will take 250 new positions to service. AIB is expanding?
Absurdity heaped on absurdity.

Stheno

Fleawuss wrote: »

No. I read the OP.
Having read the link I am even more confused. They keep all their current staff and outsource work that will take 250 new positions to service. AIB is expanding?
Absurdity heaped on absurdity.

NO they can also TUPE them over to Infosys/Wipro

Pherekydes

Fleawuss wrote: »

Having read the link I am even more confused. They keep all their current staff and outsource work that will take 250 new positions to service. AIB is expanding?

No. The staff are being transferred to Infosys and Wipro. No new jobs will be created.

Fleawuss

Stheno wrote: »

NO they can also TUPE them over to Infosys/Wipro

Right. They no longer work for AIB. But they're not being made redundant. So they do the work they used to for their previous employer who now has no responsibility for redundancy, sick pay etc. but they are employed by somebody else who is grant aided by the Irish taxpayer who still has a large share of AIB. It's a very neat trick. You're being made redundant but you're not. Got it.

Stheno

Fleawuss wrote: »

Right. They no longer work for AIB. But they're not being made redundant. So they do the work they used to for their previous employer who now has no responsibility for redundancy, sick pay etc. but they are employed by somebody else who is grant aided by the Irish taxpayer who still has a large share of AIB. It's a very neat trick. You're being made redundant but you're not. Got it.

They keep the same terms and conditions for at least two years under TUPE regulations. If as is likely the contract between AIB and Wipro/Infosys is only for two years due to the threat of privatisation of the bank, then they will be in the same position as if they were in the Bank, their years of service transfer for redundancy etc. You might want to educate yourself somewhat.

I know people who used work in Bank of Ireland, moved when HP won the contract to do what they did, and now work in IBM

Fleawuss

Stheno wrote: »

They keep the same terms and conditions for at least two years under TUPE regulations. If as is likely the contract between AIB and Wipro/Infosys is only for two years due to the threat of privatisation of the bank, then they will be in the same position as if they were in the Bank, their years of service transfer for redundancy etc. You might want to educate yourself somewhat.

I know people who used work in Bank of Ireland, moved when HP won the contract to do what they did, and now work in IBM

If I need education in TUPE I'll certainly buy the best advice out there. Don't expect a call. What seems obvious from your description above is that their redundancy will be the responsibility of Infosys not AIB. THey are redundant from AIB.

Stheno

Fleawuss wrote: »

If I need education in TUPE I'll certainly buy the best advice out there. Don't expect a call. What seems obvious from your description above is that their redundancy will be the responsibility of Infosys not AIB. THey are redundant from AIB.

THe deal in AIB was done in July, it was signed off by the Unions with enhanced protections in terms of the workers, their payrises, pensions etc in August and accepted by the workers.

Loads of info and timeline here.

https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=ssl#q=aib+outsources+it+to+wipro

Todays announcement by Infosys doesn't seem to be related tbh given what they are focussing on. All in all, it snorts of hysterics by the OP

If my company/business area was sold and I was told I was transferring on the same terms and conditions, with protections for a fairly decent pension and the same payrise rights as my former colleagues, I'd be pretty happy, especially if I worked in IT at the current time.

DominoDub

Multi- Millions in Irish Tax payers money (Inc that paid by the AIB IT Staff themselves) has been put into to saving the AIB Group by the government.

Only for hundreds of AIB and ex EBS IT support and development staff to be TUPE'd across to 3 Indian companies HCL & WiPro and this the last phase to Infosys.

Some staff have been made compulsory redundant after their TUPE move as their jobs are "meant" to done offshore in India (but somehow many roles are still operating in Ireland), while others are just waiting to see what happens next.

They will have to "Knowledge Transfer" their role to an Indian "Cheaper" staff member offshore, before they move on , forced to do so by a uncertain future in INDIAN companies that are all about the bottom line.- How cheaply can we run this contract. ( Why pay 1 guy in Ireland when we can get 4 for the same cost offshore in India)

Thus leaving a slim and trimmed down AIB for the Government to sell off parts of next year. With one key component missing , the Irish staff who had all the knowledge of how it's Key systems functioned.

Leaving it unable to no longer adapt quickly , as changes will be hindered by having to juggle multiple vendor outsourcing contracts across a 8,000km cultural divide

Stheno

DominoDub wrote: »

Multi- Millions in Irish Tax payers money (Inc that paid by the AIB IT Staff themselves) has been put into to saving the AIB Group by the government.

Only for hundreds of AIB and ex EBS IT support and development staff to be TUPE'd across to 3 Indian companies HCL & WiPro and this the last phase to Infosys.

Some staff have been made compulsory redundant after their TUPE move as their jobs are "meant" to done offshore in India (but somehow many roles are still operating in Ireland), while others are just waiting to see what happens next.

They will have to "Knowledge Transfer" their role to an Indian "Cheaper" staff member offshore, before they move on , forced to do so by a uncertain future in INDIAN companies that are all about the bottom line.- How cheaply can we run this contract. ( Why pay 1 guy in Ireland when we can get 4 for the same cost offshore in India)

Thus leaving a slim and trimmed down AIB for the Government to sell off parts of next year. With one key component missing , the Irish staff who had all the knowledge of how it's Key systems functioned.

Leaving it unable to no longer adapt quickly , as changes will be hindered by having to juggle multiple vendor outsourcing contracts across a 8,000km cultural divide

Have you proof of these compulsory redundancies, given that it was agreed with the unions about the transfer? Have you forgotten about the staff transferred to Eircom and Integrity?

The same approach is used by lots of banks as they don't see it as a core area to invest in tbh. BOI is a good example, most of their IT is now provided by Accenture, BT and IBM. Have BOI been more hindered in slimming down by outsourcing which they have been doing for years or have they lost more customers due to their onerous charges, and restrictive practices on in branch transactions?

DominoDub

Sorry yes others did TUPE to Network (Eircom) and Info Sec ( integrity)

But Yes on the "compulsory redundancies" but don't want to say too much :rolleyes:

Some ex AIB/EBS Service Desk and Tech Support staff where let go after two years by HCL as their "ROLE" was to be filled and managed offshore , by HCL in Chennai India , which at the moment is shutdown as the city is flooded.

http://qz.com/564903/chennai-is-underwater-and-americas-outsourcing-chiefs-should-be-worried/

Stheno

DominoDub wrote: »

Yes on the "compulsory redundancies" but don't want to say too much :rolleyes:

Some ex AIB/EBS Service Desk and Tech Support staff where let go after two years by HCL as their "ROLE" was to be filled and manged offshore , by HCL in Chennai India , which at the moment is shutdown as the city is flooded.

http://qz.com/564903/chennai-is-underwater-and-americas-outsourcing-chiefs-should-be-worried/

So they were let go, not fired.

Did they get redundancy etc?

uck51js9zml2yt

Stheno wrote: »

They keep the same terms and conditions for at least two years under TUPE regulations. If as is likely the contract between AIB and Wipro/Infosys is only for two years due to the threat of privatisation of the bank, then they will be in the same position as if they were in the Bank, their years of service transfer for redundancy etc. You might want to educate yourself somewhat.

I know people who used work in Bank of Ireland, moved when HP won the contract to do what they did, and now work in IBM

A lot of people moved over to IBM but its interesting to note that the work the bank outsourced to India is now being brought back into the bank. The outsourcing to India was a disaster.

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

If my company/business area was sold and I was told I was transferring on the same terms and conditions, with protections for a fairly decent pension and the same payrise rights as my former colleagues, I'd be pretty happy, especially if I worked in IT at the current time.

You're guaranteed to be f@cked out in 2 years time. The slave trader that took over your job gets rid of you after the 2 years are up

Ally Dick

Uriel Plump Drug wrote: »

A lot of people moved over to IBM but its interesting to note that the work the bank outsourced to India is now being brought back into the bank. The outsourcing to India was a disaster.

Really ? Never knew that BOI were taking the work back....only thing I have heard is that people are leaving Accenture in their droves and being hired as BOI staff, many of them back in BOI for the second time ! Dell are running the IT in BOI from India, and Accenture are managing this.

DominoDub

Yes the redundancies where compulsory not voluntary.

But their years service was protected by TUPE , some staff had given over 20 years service to AIB /EBS. Only To find themselves out a job and replaced by someone in India, a hard pill to swallow for some.

PS. they "Bear no Malice" to the front line Indian staff , who are trying to support their own lives ,by doing very long hours with no overtime, weekends and expected 24/7 support with no on call allowance payments.

Stheno

Uriel Plump Drug wrote: »

A lot of people moved over to IBM but its interesting to note that the work the bank outsourced to India is now being brought back into the bank. The outsourcing to India was a disaster.

It's actually a well documented fairly of the BPO industry, key issue they have is that they cannot retain staff, up to 70% of callcentres in India have been moved to the Phillipines and back to Europe since 2012. I've lost count of the amount of companies I know or have read about who have moved operations back to the West from India.

It's slangily being called the "flight west"

Ally Dick wrote: »

You're guaranteed to be f@cked out in 2 years time. The slave trader that took over your job gets rid of you after the 2 years are up

And I can tell you of people who went from BOI to HP to IBM in a similar vein.

You seem to have a particular agenda here, and no answer to questions asked of you earlier, care to answer them now?

mynameis905

DominoDub wrote: »

PS. they "Bear no Malice" to the front line Indian staff , who are trying to support their own lives ,by doing very long hours with no overtime, weekends and expected 24/7 support with no on call allowance payments.

It's a tough life alright, all that copy and pasting canned email replies and what not. I'd say the Ctrl, C & V keys on their keyboards must be worn down to nothing.

Stheno

DominoDub wrote: »

Yes the redundancies where compulsory not voluntary.

But their years service was protected by TUPE , some staff had given over 20 years service to AIB /EBS. Only To find themselves out a job and replaced by someone in India, a hard pill to swallow for some.

PS. they "Bear no Malice" to the front line Indian staff , who are trying to support their own lives ,by doing very long hours with no overtime, weekends and expected 24/7 support with no on call allowance payments.

Did they expect a job for life? What did they do with their redundancy packages? 20 years service they'd have gotten over two years pay tax free if they did it right in redundancy? There's a massive shortage here for the right IT staff, did they network/retrain to find a new role?

I genuinely do not understand anyone who works in IT who thinks that they have a job for life and coasts along thinking so.

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

I genuinely do not understand anyone who works in IT who thinks that they have a job for life and coasts along thinking so.

You seem to think that people who are in the same IT job for a long time are coasting. It's not always the case.

Stheno

Ally Dick wrote: »

You seem to think that people who are in the same IT job for a long time are coasting. It's not always the case.

I actually do. I update my qualifications at least every three years, and gain new ones as well.

People who don't and then find themselves out of touch with new job requirements only have themselves to blame.

And I self study/pay for new qualifications myself.

DominoDub

I agree with everything your saying about no IT "Job for Life" , its just that the redundancy did not suit everyone at their stage in life.

Yes some are doing "springboard courses" to get new training before getting back into to the job market , which is looking a lot better than two years ago when they TUPE'd across.

Most of my points are just for public information so people know what is happening inside the Irish Banks that their wages paid into.

So come the next major IT Outage they understand who will be working restoring access to their money back.

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

I actually do. I update my qualifications at least every three years, and gain new ones as well.

People who don't and then find themselves out of touch with new job requirements only have themselves to blame.

And I self study/pay for new qualifications myself.

I applaud you for that

wes

Nodin wrote: »

So some crowd have been shipping in Indians en masse before? Who, exactly?

Well not exactly, but they have been sued for discrimination in the US:

Former Infosys recruiter says he was told not to hire U.S. workers

Not sure how that whole thing worked out in the end.

Infosys basically have a rather bad reputation amongst people from the sub continent. Basically they will work them to the bone, and is not a terribly nice place to work.

Ok found some information on the lawsuit:

IT workers win key ruling against visa-using firm

So there is merit to the accusation, and it certainly backs up the stuff I have heard personally.

Stheno

DominoDub wrote: »

I agree with everything your saying about no IT "Job for Life" , its just that the redundancy did not suit everyone at their stage in life.

Yes some are doing "springboard courses" to get new training before getting back into to the job market , which is looking a lot better than two years ago when they TUPE'd across.

Most of my points are just for public information so people know what is happening inside the Irish Banks that their wages paid into.

So come the next major IT Outage they understand who will be working restoring access to their money back.

Who caused the massive Ulster bank outagea couple of years ago?

DominoDub

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/25/rbs_natwest_what_went_wrong/