Rejoice - Infosys creates 250 jobs in Dublin....but what about AIB ?

Ally Dick

AIB are currently getting rid of their permanent IT staff and sending all the work to Infosys, an Indian outsource company. Meanwhile Infosys "create" 250 jobs in Dublin, and big thick Enda is all smiles......what's really happening is that Infosys are getting the AIB work, sending 250 Indians over to Dublin and 250 permanent AIB staff lose their jobs. Well done Enda. Result !

AnonoBoy

And stamps to Santy cost 70c too.

Curse you Enda!

kneemos

There's a reason we don't see Enda very often.

KERSPLAT!

Any link OP?

Dravokivich

Ally Dick wrote: »

AIB are currently getting rid of their permanent IT staff and sending all the work to Infosys, an Indian outsource company. Meanwhile Infosys "create" 250 jobs in Dublin, and big thick Enda is all smiles......what's really happening is that Infosys are getting the AIB work, sending 250 Indians over to Dublin and 250 permanent AIB staff lose their jobs. Well done Enda. Result !

Eh... What makes you think its 250 people coming in from India? There's a lot of foreign businesses in the it sector here, but I'd be surprised if they imported their workforce.

Nodin

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Any link OP?

"The Indian-owned consulting and technology firm Infosys intends to create 250 new jobs over the next three years in Ireland to develop new technologies and support innovation in global financial institutions.
The expansion will see Infosys create up to 95 roles at its first dedicated product-centric research and development centre outside India, and open a second Irish facility to house up to 155 people who will provide IT services to Infosys clients."

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1207/751811-infosys-jobs/

"
AIB has said no redundancies will result from its plans to outsource a number of services within its application development and maintenance division.
The bank this morning briefed staff in the division about plans to outsource a number of services to WIPRO and Infosys.
“We will now enter into a formal consultation process with employee representatives. There will be no redundancies,” a spokeswoman for the bank said.
Finance union IBOA said it was disappointed with the bank’s decision to proceed with the outsourcing of work."
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/aib-says-no-redundancies-will-result-from-outsourcing-plan-1.2271046

If they do plan to shaft their IT dept, they haven't done it as of yet. Having witnessed outsourcing in action I can safely say its not nessecarily efficient or cost effective. It has occurred to me that it might often occur as much to make somebody like an "ideas guy" or "innovator" as be an actually constructive exercise, but I am rather a cynical fecker.

Nodin

Dravokivich wrote: »

Eh... What makes you think its 250 people coming in from India? There's a lot of foreign businesses in the it sector here, but I'd be surprised if they imported their workforce.

....certainly not all of them.

questionmark?

Ya it's called outsourcing but do you really think they are bringing over 250 Indians to Dublin to do the work? Do you think every foreign company in Ireland only hires people from their home company or something? It's a good thing that the jobs weren't lost to India but are staying in Ireland.

Ally Dick

RTE will report on the good news but nobody in the media will ever try and establish WHO got the jobs. I think it's a sneaky exercise to get Indians in on the sly to leech even more Irish jobs

KERSPLAT!

Ally Dick wrote: »

AIB are currently getting rid of their permanent IT staff and sending all the work to Infosys, an Indian outsource company. Meanwhile Infosys "create" 250 jobs in Dublin, and big thick Enda is all smiles......what's really happening is that Infosys are getting the AIB work, sending 250 Indians over to Dublin and 250 permanent AIB staff lose their jobs. Well done Enda. Result !

So is this true or bullsh!t? I assume the latter.

Ally Dick

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

So is this true or bullsh!t? I assume the latter.

We'll see. There's definitely something sneaky going on

Stheno

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

So is this true or bullsh!t? I assume the latter.

Bull**** id say, contravenes TUPE regulations for a start

kneemos

Are the AIB crew on contracts?
Hard to just get rid of them if not.

KERSPLAT!

Ally Dick wrote: »

We'll see. There's definitely something sneaky going on

Why are you stating something that has not happened, nor has been reported will happen, as fact?

SEPT 23 1989

Cowboys

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

Bull**** id say, contravenes TUPE regulations for a start

True. AIB will offer voluntary redundancy or transitioning to Wipro under TUPE which only offers 2 years protection, but whatever way you cut it, the jobs are screwed

Stheno

Ally Dick wrote: »

True. AIB will offer voluntary redundancy or transitioning to Wipro under TUPE which only offers 2 years protection, but whatever way you cut it, the jobs are screwed

So is it Infosys or Wipro who aib are outsourcing to?

Amirani

Sort of strange that this happened pre-privatisation. Sort of rules hampers any acquisition of AIB by another banking group if they're tied into an IT contract.

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

So is it Infosys or Wipro who aib are outsourcing to?

Both

Nodin

Ally Dick wrote: »

RTE will report on the good news but nobody in the media will ever try and establish WHO got the jobs. I think it's a sneaky exercise to get Indians in on the sly to leech even more Irish jobs

So some crowd have been shipping in Indians en masse before? Who, exactly?

KERSPLAT!

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Why are you stating something that has not happened, nor has been reported will happen, as fact?

You might have missed this Ally, any response? Or is this more I'll informed nonsense?

AnonoBoy

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Cowboys

Jaysus - they're importing cowboys to take our ranching jobs too now are they?

The sneaky feckers.

darkpagandeath

Nodin wrote: »

So some crowd have been shipping in Indians en masse before? Who, exactly?

I think or hope they mean outsourcing..

The Backwards Man

Cowboys and Indians, no less

Valetta

Ally Dick wrote: »

RTE will report on the good news but nobody in the media will ever try and establish WHO got the jobs. I think it's a sneaky exercise to get Indians in on the sly to leech even more Irish jobs

Nice bit of racism there.

Corpus Twisty

Valetta wrote: »

Nice bit of racism there.

What if they're white Indians? Or Red? Is that still racism? Or pragmatism?

Fleawuss

So it's cheaper to pay statutory redundancy or voluntary redundancy and pay a different company to provide the same service ( who have to equip train and support all the legal requirements and pay IT staff ) than keep on the in house staff. Exactly how much over the odds were AIB paying for all of this to make economic sense?

Stheno

Fleawuss wrote: »

So it's cheaper to pay statutory redundancy or voluntary redundancy and pay a different company to provide the same service ( who have to equip train and support all the legal requirements and pay IT staff ) than keep on the in house staff. Exactly how much over the odds were AIB paying for all of this to make economic sense?

Did you even read the link that said ain have said there will be no redundancies?

mynameis905

Great. What the world really needs is another Indian call centre.

keithclancy

Ally Dick wrote: »

AIB are currently getting rid of their permanent IT staff and sending all the work to Infosys, an Indian outsource company. Meanwhile Infosys "create" 250 jobs in Dublin, and big thick Enda is all smiles......what's really happening is that Infosys are getting the AIB work, sending 250 Indians over to Dublin and 250 permanent AIB staff lose their jobs. Well done Enda. Result !

What's wrong with 250 Indian people coming to Ireland ? Irish people like popping up like Herpes all over the world, the least you could do is welcome people to Ireland.

asherbassad

questionmark? wrote: »

Ya it's called outsourcing but do you really think they are bringing over 250 Indians to Dublin to do the work? Do you think every foreign company in Ireland only hires people from their home company or something? It's a good thing that the jobs weren't lost to India but are staying in Ireland.

Of course they're not "bringing" 250 Indians over from the Sub-Continent. The DBA, Unix/Linux/Cloud/Admin, Content, Administration, Development and Coding work will be done by Indians IN India.

I've seen WIPRO, Infosys and Tech-Mahindra operate before. They're boiler-rooms for tech slave labour.

Badly Drunk Boy

I deal with people from Infosys (in Mumbai) every day. Some days (like today), I feel like my head is melting...

asherbassad

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

So is this true or bullsh!t? I assume the latter.

In the IT world there is now practically ZERO reason to have IT staff anywhere near the company for whom they work. The only human presence that is needed is in the event of hardware failure at data centres and even this is fobbed off to on-call "Smart Hands" operations.

Remote access via ILO can determine if a machine is hung or hard down. If inaccesible, pick up the phone at 3 am and have some guy from a dispatch point gun over to the server farm and follow your instructions. That's it.

The company could be in Dublin. The data centre could be in Eindhoven. The guy doing the talking could be in Bangalore.

RDM_83 again

So basically they are creating 95 probably decent jobs, 155 likely short term definitely underpaid and stressed out phone jockeys.
The decent secure jobs with the old department are definitely totally we promise completely secure and will in no way get shafted after the feel good factor of a jobs creation story has been forgotten about.
Good to know everything is ok

questionmark?

asherbassad wrote: »

Of course they're not "bringing" 250 Indians over from the Sub-Continent. The DBA, Unix/Linux/Cloud/Admin, Content, Administration, Development and Coding work will be done by Indians IN India.

I've seen WIPRO, Infosys and Tech-Mahindra operate before. They're boiler-rooms for tech slave labour.

That was what the OP suggested. I responded saying it's incorrect.

Mehapoy

keithclancy wrote: »

What's wrong with 250 Indian people coming to Ireland ? Irish people like popping up like Herpes all over the world, the least you could do is welcome people to Ireland.

Great, they're welcome but if they're replacing native staff(of whatever nationality) with imported workers on worse pay and conditions then that isnt right. The people trumpeting this as a net gain in jobs when in actual fact it is just replacing native workers with outsourced staff is wrong. Infosys are well known for this, in common with the other outsourcers working in the IT industry.

Fleawuss

Stheno wrote: »

Did you even read the link that said ain have said there will be no redundancies?

No. I read the OP.
Having read the link I am even more confused. They keep all their current staff and outsource work that will take 250 new positions to service. AIB is expanding?
Absurdity heaped on absurdity.

Stheno

Fleawuss wrote: »

No. I read the OP.
Having read the link I am even more confused. They keep all their current staff and outsource work that will take 250 new positions to service. AIB is expanding?
Absurdity heaped on absurdity.

NO they can also TUPE them over to Infosys/Wipro

Pherekydes

Fleawuss wrote: »

Having read the link I am even more confused. They keep all their current staff and outsource work that will take 250 new positions to service. AIB is expanding?

No. The staff are being transferred to Infosys and Wipro. No new jobs will be created.

Fleawuss

Stheno wrote: »

NO they can also TUPE them over to Infosys/Wipro

Right. They no longer work for AIB. But they're not being made redundant. So they do the work they used to for their previous employer who now has no responsibility for redundancy, sick pay etc. but they are employed by somebody else who is grant aided by the Irish taxpayer who still has a large share of AIB. It's a very neat trick. You're being made redundant but you're not. Got it.

Stheno

Fleawuss wrote: »

Right. They no longer work for AIB. But they're not being made redundant. So they do the work they used to for their previous employer who now has no responsibility for redundancy, sick pay etc. but they are employed by somebody else who is grant aided by the Irish taxpayer who still has a large share of AIB. It's a very neat trick. You're being made redundant but you're not. Got it.

They keep the same terms and conditions for at least two years under TUPE regulations. If as is likely the contract between AIB and Wipro/Infosys is only for two years due to the threat of privatisation of the bank, then they will be in the same position as if they were in the Bank, their years of service transfer for redundancy etc. You might want to educate yourself somewhat.

I know people who used work in Bank of Ireland, moved when HP won the contract to do what they did, and now work in IBM

Fleawuss

Stheno wrote: »

They keep the same terms and conditions for at least two years under TUPE regulations. If as is likely the contract between AIB and Wipro/Infosys is only for two years due to the threat of privatisation of the bank, then they will be in the same position as if they were in the Bank, their years of service transfer for redundancy etc. You might want to educate yourself somewhat.

I know people who used work in Bank of Ireland, moved when HP won the contract to do what they did, and now work in IBM

If I need education in TUPE I'll certainly buy the best advice out there. Don't expect a call. What seems obvious from your description above is that their redundancy will be the responsibility of Infosys not AIB. THey are redundant from AIB.

Stheno

Fleawuss wrote: »

If I need education in TUPE I'll certainly buy the best advice out there. Don't expect a call. What seems obvious from your description above is that their redundancy will be the responsibility of Infosys not AIB. THey are redundant from AIB.

THe deal in AIB was done in July, it was signed off by the Unions with enhanced protections in terms of the workers, their payrises, pensions etc in August and accepted by the workers.

Loads of info and timeline here.

https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=ssl#q=aib+outsources+it+to+wipro

Todays announcement by Infosys doesn't seem to be related tbh given what they are focussing on. All in all, it snorts of hysterics by the OP

If my company/business area was sold and I was told I was transferring on the same terms and conditions, with protections for a fairly decent pension and the same payrise rights as my former colleagues, I'd be pretty happy, especially if I worked in IT at the current time.

DominoDub

Multi- Millions in Irish Tax payers money (Inc that paid by the AIB IT Staff themselves) has been put into to saving the AIB Group by the government.

Only for hundreds of AIB and ex EBS IT support and development staff to be TUPE'd across to 3 Indian companies HCL & WiPro and this the last phase to Infosys.

Some staff have been made compulsory redundant after their TUPE move as their jobs are "meant" to done offshore in India (but somehow many roles are still operating in Ireland), while others are just waiting to see what happens next.

They will have to "Knowledge Transfer" their role to an Indian "Cheaper" staff member offshore, before they move on , forced to do so by a uncertain future in INDIAN companies that are all about the bottom line.- How cheaply can we run this contract. ( Why pay 1 guy in Ireland when we can get 4 for the same cost offshore in India)

Thus leaving a slim and trimmed down AIB for the Government to sell off parts of next year. With one key component missing , the Irish staff who had all the knowledge of how it's Key systems functioned.

Leaving it unable to no longer adapt quickly , as changes will be hindered by having to juggle multiple vendor outsourcing contracts across a 8,000km cultural divide

Stheno

DominoDub wrote: »

Multi- Millions in Irish Tax payers money (Inc that paid by the AIB IT Staff themselves) has been put into to saving the AIB Group by the government.

Only for hundreds of AIB and ex EBS IT support and development staff to be TUPE'd across to 3 Indian companies HCL & WiPro and this the last phase to Infosys.

Some staff have been made compulsory redundant after their TUPE move as their jobs are "meant" to done offshore in India (but somehow many roles are still operating in Ireland), while others are just waiting to see what happens next.

They will have to "Knowledge Transfer" their role to an Indian "Cheaper" staff member offshore, before they move on , forced to do so by a uncertain future in INDIAN companies that are all about the bottom line.- How cheaply can we run this contract. ( Why pay 1 guy in Ireland when we can get 4 for the same cost offshore in India)

Thus leaving a slim and trimmed down AIB for the Government to sell off parts of next year. With one key component missing , the Irish staff who had all the knowledge of how it's Key systems functioned.

Leaving it unable to no longer adapt quickly , as changes will be hindered by having to juggle multiple vendor outsourcing contracts across a 8,000km cultural divide

Have you proof of these compulsory redundancies, given that it was agreed with the unions about the transfer? Have you forgotten about the staff transferred to Eircom and Integrity?

The same approach is used by lots of banks as they don't see it as a core area to invest in tbh. BOI is a good example, most of their IT is now provided by Accenture, BT and IBM. Have BOI been more hindered in slimming down by outsourcing which they have been doing for years or have they lost more customers due to their onerous charges, and restrictive practices on in branch transactions?

DominoDub

Sorry yes others did TUPE to Network (Eircom) and Info Sec ( integrity)

But Yes on the "compulsory redundancies" but don't want to say too much :rolleyes:

Some ex AIB/EBS Service Desk and Tech Support staff where let go after two years by HCL as their "ROLE" was to be filled and managed offshore , by HCL in Chennai India , which at the moment is shutdown as the city is flooded.

http://qz.com/564903/chennai-is-underwater-and-americas-outsourcing-chiefs-should-be-worried/

Stheno

DominoDub wrote: »

Yes on the "compulsory redundancies" but don't want to say too much :rolleyes:

Some ex AIB/EBS Service Desk and Tech Support staff where let go after two years by HCL as their "ROLE" was to be filled and manged offshore , by HCL in Chennai India , which at the moment is shutdown as the city is flooded.

http://qz.com/564903/chennai-is-underwater-and-americas-outsourcing-chiefs-should-be-worried/

So they were let go, not fired.

Did they get redundancy etc?

uck51js9zml2yt

Stheno wrote: »

They keep the same terms and conditions for at least two years under TUPE regulations. If as is likely the contract between AIB and Wipro/Infosys is only for two years due to the threat of privatisation of the bank, then they will be in the same position as if they were in the Bank, their years of service transfer for redundancy etc. You might want to educate yourself somewhat.

I know people who used work in Bank of Ireland, moved when HP won the contract to do what they did, and now work in IBM

A lot of people moved over to IBM but its interesting to note that the work the bank outsourced to India is now being brought back into the bank. The outsourcing to India was a disaster.

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

If my company/business area was sold and I was told I was transferring on the same terms and conditions, with protections for a fairly decent pension and the same payrise rights as my former colleagues, I'd be pretty happy, especially if I worked in IT at the current time.

You're guaranteed to be f@cked out in 2 years time. The slave trader that took over your job gets rid of you after the 2 years are up

Ally Dick

Uriel Plump Drug wrote: »

A lot of people moved over to IBM but its interesting to note that the work the bank outsourced to India is now being brought back into the bank. The outsourcing to India was a disaster.

Really ? Never knew that BOI were taking the work back....only thing I have heard is that people are leaving Accenture in their droves and being hired as BOI staff, many of them back in BOI for the second time ! Dell are running the IT in BOI from India, and Accenture are managing this.

DominoDub

Yes the redundancies where compulsory not voluntary.

But their years service was protected by TUPE , some staff had given over 20 years service to AIB /EBS. Only To find themselves out a job and replaced by someone in India, a hard pill to swallow for some.

PS. they "Bear no Malice" to the front line Indian staff , who are trying to support their own lives ,by doing very long hours with no overtime, weekends and expected 24/7 support with no on call allowance payments.