Another Dublin Bus phenomenon: dropping passengers at peak time outside stops...

SteM

lxflyer wrote: »

Plenty of drivers do precisely that but people will still ignore them.

Yup, I've heard announcements like this before. It's usually followed by the passangers staring at each other like frightened rabbits. Like it was a revelation to them that there was an upstairs on a bus.

MuffinsDa

lxflyer wrote: »

Plenty of drivers do precisely that but people will still ignore them.

Yep, some do, but I think in general they don't communicate as much (and as clearly) as they should.

But my comments were in response to the previous post (quoted in my post) about ignoring waiting passengers and driving on. I suggested that this would be a better alternative. Which some drivers do. And some don't!

SteM

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Yep, some do, but I think in general they don't communicate as much (and as clearly) as they should.

But my comments were in response to the previous post (quoted in my post) about ignoring waiting passengers and driving on. I suggested that this would be a better alternative. Which some drivers do. And some don't!

It really doesn’t matter whether they do or not to be honest. They're just ignored anyway. We need a change passenger habit in this instance imo. But it seems like you're unhappy with almost every aspect of Dublin bus anyway so you'll just argue the point.

lil5

SteM wrote: »

It really doesn’t matter whether they do or not to be honest. They're just ignored anyway. We need a change passenger habit in this instance imo. But it seems like you're unhappy with almost every aspect of Dublin bus anyway so you'll just argue the point.

Is it too much to ask to have consistent well trained driver behaviour?

Don't leave terminus too early.
Drive at a safe speed and obey traffic lights.
Open the middle doors where required.
Make clear and audible announcments as appropriate.

There already have been a number of great improvements in the driver behaviour in recent years (for example the behaviour towards cyclists).


The ticketing / leapcard nonsense should be totally removed from the drivers tasks.

MuffinsDa

SteM wrote: »

It really doesn’t matter whether they do or not to be honest. They're just ignored anyway.

I don't think so. I'd say if they make those sort of announcement properly it would have a considerable effect. In this specific case people might have assumed there's no room upstairs. You are suggesting all customers should be treated as imbeciles just because some may prefer to stand downstairs.

I do not have problem with everything DB. The fact that I'm making these points here is an attempt to improve it. However I do have problem with people defending the indefensible instead of taking a relevant point and trying to make improvements.

cdebru

MuffinsDa wrote: »

What?!
What an Irish solution to a simple problem!

So you think it's ok for them to illegally (is it illegal actually?!) open the doors completely outside the bus stop (all this while the bus stop is empty), in order to avoid having to tell 2-3 passengers that "the bus is full, sorry?". Also, you think it's ok to leave 5 people in the cold so that the driver doesn't have to go through the inconvenience of slightly confronting people? Do they not get basic training in this sort of stuff, i.e. how to be firm/assertive but polite/courteous?

They get training that the best way out of confrontation is to avoid it in the first place, see you seem like a perfectly reasonable person that would appreciate the courtesy of an simple explanation, however other people are not so perfectly reasonable and after the driver has endured a couple of Mexican stand offs and had to waste the time of the Gardai to get the bus moving again he or she will quickly learn that discretion is the better part of valor, and life is much simpler to avoid confrontation where possible.

cdebru

lil5 wrote: »

Is it too much to ask to have consistent well trained driver behaviour?

Don't leave terminus too early.
Drive at a safe speed and obey traffic lights.
Open the middle doors where required.
Make clear and audible announcments as appropriate.

There already have been a number of great improvements in the driver behaviour in recent years (for example the behaviour towards cyclists).


The ticketing / leapcard nonsense should be totally removed from the drivers tasks.

All Dublin Bus vehicles have GPS, the company knows to the second what time any bus leaves the terminus, IF they leave early it is because they are instructed to do so in my experience, or sometimes what customers assume is a bus leaving early is actually an earlier departure arriving and leaving late.

Dublin Bus drivers have an excellent safety record in general, I'd agree there are always a few bad apples but they are most definitely a tiny minority.

Traffic lights are usually set up for private vehicles who would have passengers seat belted in and shorter breaking distance unlike a bus, which have no seat belts and often have passengers standing or tackling a staircase, it is not always safe to stop and drivers have to make a judgement to continue as the lesser of 2 evils even though a car would be easily able to stop at a similar distance and speed.

Open the middle doors when required and safe to do so.

I agree on the last one, I think DB as a company have been piss poor at emphasising to their staff the importance of communicating to their passengers, an awful lot of time wasted on fad motivational speakers that would have been better spent, showing drivers and practising how to make clear audible announcements.

MuffinsDa

cdebru wrote: »

I'd agree there are always a few bad apples but they are most definitely a tiny minority.

Totally agree, the whole point in these posts and compalints/feedback is to get those bad apples to correct their behaviour.

cdebru wrote: »

I agree on the last one, I think DB as a company have been piss poor at emphasising to their staff the importance of communicating to their passengers, an awful lot of time wasted on fad motivational speakers that would have been better spent, showing drivers and practising how to make clear audible announcements.

Exactly! Couldn't phrase it better.

lil5

cdebru wrote: »

...
Traffic lights are usually set up for private vehicles who would have passengers seat belted in and shorter breaking distance unlike a bus, which have no seat belts and often have passengers standing or tackling a staircase, it is not always safe to stop and drivers have to make a judgement to continue as the lesser of 2 evils even though a car would be easily able to stop at a similar distance and speed.
...

You might find that red lights apply the same way to everyone.
There's no exceptions for DB driver judgement calls.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

lil5 wrote: »

You might find that red lights apply the same way to everyone.
There's no exceptions for DB driver judgement calls.

There is a part of legislation somewhere that goes along the lines of

"Red light means stop, all vehicles must stop unless it is unsafe to do so."

Im on the phone so maybe someone can find that piece

cdebru

lil5 wrote: »

You might find that red lights apply the same way to everyone.
There's no exceptions for DB driver judgement calls.

Didn't say there was, merely an explanation that stopping a bus with unbelted and standing passengers is not as easy as stopping a car, but lights are set up with private cars in mind, amber lights usually allow for a cars stopping distance, a bus also can't take of and turn as quick either, which often results in other traffic being given a green light before a bus could clear the junction, even though it entered the junction on a green light, the same is also true for cyclists where insufficient time to clear junctions is given before a green light is given to other traffic.

cdebru

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

There is a part of legislation somewhere that goes along the lines of

"Red light means stop, all vehicles must stop unless it is unsafe to do so."

Im on the phone so maybe someone can find that piece

That's amber light, red light means stop, I don't think there is anything about unsafe to stop on a red that's what an amber is supposed to be for, I was merely pointing out that the timing on amber lights are set up for private cars and vehicles were drivers and passengers are belted in not set up for a vehicle with people unbelted, standing, walking up or down a narrow staircase, carrying shopping, holding a child etc etc.

lil5

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

There is a part of legislation somewhere that goes along the lines of

"Red light means stop, all vehicles must stop unless it is unsafe to do so."

Im on the phone so maybe someone can find that piece

From the ROTR on the RSA website

A red light means ‘stop’. If the light is red as you approach it, you must not go beyond the stop line at that light or, if there is no stop line, beyond the light.

...

An amber light means that you must not go beyond the stop line or, if there is no stop line, beyond the light. However, you may go on if you are so close to the line or the light when the amber light first appears that stopping would be dangerous.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

cdebru wrote: »

That's amber light, red light means stop, I don't think there is anything about unsafe to stop on a red that's what an amber is supposed to be for, I was merely pointing out that the timing on amber lights are set up for private cars and vehicles were drivers and passengers are belted in not set up for a vehicle with people unbelted, standing, walking up or down a narrow staircase, carrying shopping, holding a child etc etc.

Thats my bad. Sorry about that.

I do agree with you though that it is very difficult to stop a bus over a car and there are countless lights throughout Dublin with terrible timing on them like that

MuffinsDa

Regarding original question, here's a plausible explanation that I heard from a driver today:
while loading passengers people move upstairs to sit but the upper deck is full. Those people start to come back downstairs and suddenly the bus is overcrowded. At the next stop if 3 people get off the driver wouldn't allow someone on just to create space.
That does make sense!

cdebru

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Regarding original question, here's a plausible explanation that I heard from a driver today:
while loading passengers people move upstairs to sit but the upper deck is full. Those people start to come back downstairs and suddenly the bus is overcrowded. At the next stop if 3 people get off the driver wouldn't allow someone on just to create space.
That does make sense!

That happens all the time, loading a bus is a very inexact science while there are passenger numbers given on each bus, they are not an exact figure some are complete fiction, people with back packs, heavier clothes, heavier people, people who appear to be allergic to soap and water, etc, it is also easy for a driver to allow more people on than ideal particularly at a busier stop, from people going upstairs and coming back down or while the driver is distracted while dealing with another passenger for example.