Nissan to make a REX in 2016

Seriously, I don't want need an ICE car. My partner owns the Diesel C'eed. And she won't travel in the Leaf if it requires a charge in between.

Oafley Jones

BoatMad wrote: »

He is a master of the compartmentalised brain in operation

It's kind of stunning isn't it. The mental and logical gymnastics that are performed to suit his arguments. It makes for a terrible advocate for EVs.

BoatMad

bk wrote: »

And that is the problem, if the only way you can really use a BEV is by owning a second diesel car for long trips, then they will completely fail to take off with the general public. Which I'm sure is something all of us EV fans want to see happen.

Everyone here accepts that BEVs must seriously improve to be taken as a serious all round car in direct competition with ICE.

we wait in " faith " , Mad_lad performs the required religious BEV ceremony every day in anticipation

The problem with all EV's at the moment, both BEV's and PHEV's is that any with a sufficient range are just too expensive. Leaf is a little expensive, but ok priced, but it doesn't have the range. Tesla has great range for a BEV, but WAY too expensive at €100,000 for joe public to buy. The Golf GTE looks to be a great car, with great range, but at least €12,000 too expensive for what it is.

that is rather self evident to say the least

What we need is vehicles with 300km range (real world) for about €25,000 (max €30,000) in order for EV's to take off with the general public. Frankly I don't really care if such a vehicle is a BEV or a PHEV with 50km battery range, just as long as we get their as soon as possible.

PHEV is a dead end as is an ICE dressed up as a EV. a 50km PHEV is a just a VRT /Tax/C02 dodger in disguise

yes we need BEVs with 300-500km range in all weathers at all speeds , sure sure....

Boat mad is constantly contradicting everything I say yet he is supposed to be buying a Leaf, Jaysus !

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Boat mad is constantly contradicting everything I say yet he is supposed to be buying a Leaf, Jaysus !

nope, I contradict the nonsense things you say, I agree with the sensible thing you say ( see several posts) of course my first posts tend to drown the second, but I cant help that

to summarise , assuming a few things line up, Ill buy a Leaf, Im in no way a fan-boy of current BEVs

Lol so all you don't agree with which is pretty much 99% of what I say, yet you say you intend buying a Leaf, ? lol why would you if they are only viable in your opinion with 300-500 Km range ? "in all weathers" Lol

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol so all you don't agree with which is pretty much 99% of what I say, yet you say you intend buying a Leaf, ? lol why would you if they are only viable in your opinion with 300-500 Km range ? "in all weathers" Lol

because the Leaf , just squeezes into a financial category that makes sense for a particular commute. i.e. I min/maxed the numbers and it makes sense


it does not make sense elsewhere and does not make sense in general as a substitute for a general family car.

which is where the 300-500km at 130 kmph in all weathers comes from

I do have the " faith " that BEVs will " get" there in the end, timescales are an other issue, there are also major charging technical issue to be resolved

Ultimately however they will not be cheaper to run I firmly believe as home charging is not a long term solution and dedicated charging " filling stations : will have to be built and paid for , thats means dear fuel./electricity

but by then the clear performance advantage of the electric motor will be evident to all the boy racers and GTI buyers

as I said, Im a big fan of electric motors , not a fan of chemical power storage

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

because the Leaf , just squeezes into a financial category that makes sense for a particular commute. i.e. I min/maxed the numbers and it makes sense


it does not make sense elsewhere and does not make sense in general as a substitute for a general family car.

which is where the 300-500km at 130 km in all weathers comes form

I do have the " faith " that BEVs will " get" there in the end, timescales are an other issue

LOL and in another thread you keep going on how a diesel is economically more viable than the Leaf to buy ? holy moly !

@ 130 Km ? so if you can get 300 Km at 110 Kph it's not suitable ?

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

as I said, Im a big fan of electric motors , not a fan of chemical power storage

Then you shouldn't be thinking of buy a battery car now should you ?

Yawlboy

bk wrote: »

The BMW i3 is so expensive for what it is simply because of the BMW badge.

I have to disagree with you on this, the i3 is the only mass produced carbon fibre car. The technology used to build it is ground breaking, even when compared to other EV's.

Have a look at this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8


I couldn't care about the badge to be honest, for what it is the i3 could have a Tata badge and I'd still have bought it.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

@ 130 Km ? so if you can get 300 Km at 110 Kph it's not suitable ?

no not as a substitute for a normal car in everyday use. I want and need to "bomb" up a motorway at full tilt ( or every over full tilt )

I did it yesterday cause I was late for a meeting

110kmph is sooooooo slow ( I worked in germany and had a Audi quattro...)

Yawlboy

Yawlboy wrote: »

I have to disagree with you on this, the i3 is the only mass produced carbon fibre car. The technology in in is ground breaking, even when compared to other EV's.

.

The Leaf is far more ground breaking, without all that over priced fancy carbon Nissan can sell it much cheaper for much the same range, the fact the Leaf isn't as efficient or quiet as light matters far less, so what if it needs another 3 kwh for the same range , that's what , 24 cent ?

The I3 is a good car and a different league than the Leaf, but most people are not willing to pay for it.

Yawlboy

Deleted User wrote: »

The Leaf is far more ground breaking, without all that over priced fancy carbon Nissan can sell it much cheaper for much the same range, the fact the Leaf isn't as efficient or quiet as light matters far less.

The I3 is a good car and a different league than the Leaf, but most people are not willing to pay for it.

The Leaf is a cheap mass produced EV and a very good one at that - there is nothing ground breaking about it when it comes to revolutionizing car manufacturing. The i3 on the other hand is showcasing a new way of building cars with 1/3 the setup costs of a traditional steel car, including EV's.

Yawlboy

Yawlboy wrote: »

The Leaf is a cheap mass produced EV and a very good one at that - there is nothing ground breaking about it when it comes to revolutionizing car manufacturing. The i3 on the other hand is showcasing a new way of building cars with 1/3 the setup costs of a traditional steel car, including EV's.

The Production of the Leaf may not be revolutionary but being able to bring an affordable EV to the Public much cheaper than the I3 is.

cros13

bk wrote: »

And that is the problem, if the only way you can really use a BEV is by owning a second diesel car for long trips, then they will completely fail to take off with the general public.

I'd don't have a petrol or diesel car and I drive more than double the average Irish driver's mileage. I used the REx once in 31,000km (I didn't actually have to, I got caught in traffic for 5 hours on the M6 coming up from London and didn't want to change my ferry booking).

bk wrote: »

Tesla has great range for a BEV, but WAY too expensive at €100,000 for joe public to buy.

It's not €100,000. If you got the SEAI grant (which you'll be able to as soon as the Tesla store opens) the Model S starts at around €82,000. If they brought back the VRT exemption closer to €70,000. and if Tesla reduced the RHD surcharge (as they've started to do) then less than €60,000 including VAT and delivery.

bk wrote: »

What we need is vehicles with 300km range (real world) for about €25,000 (max €30,000) in order for EV's to take off with the general public.

Tesla has stated the Model 3 will be available for £25,000 in the UK. 320-350km range. Now whether they can build enough of them to meet demand is another story. I'll have a deposit down in March on one, even though I'm probably getting a Model X next year I'd like to have the option of the Model 3.

BoatMad wrote: »

which is where the 300-500km at 130 kmph in all weathers comes from

A very small number of people actually drive those distances more than a couple of times a year. People have no idea of their own needs. Personally I had 6 years of data from a data logger that told me exactly where and how far I'd driven so I had numbers in front of me that told me BEV was going to be better.

Deleted User wrote: »

that over priced fancy carbon

BMW's CFRP is 10 times cheaper than traditional carbon fiber frame production. The real value of CFRP for them is not the showcase all-CFRP frame. It's that they now have CFRP production at-scale figured out and they are using CFRP reinforcing members to reduce the weight of their other production vehicles.

BTW Nissan are building a CFRP production facility for the next Leaf....

Yawlboy

Deleted User wrote: »

The Production of the Leaf may not be revolutionary but being able to bring an affordable EV to the Public much cheaper than the I3 is.

They are two different things - the Leaf is a normal car with an EV drive train. The i3 is a new way of building cars. Price is nothing to do with it. BMW are not targeting the Leaf with the i3 - different market sectors and with regards to the approach BMW have taken. However Nissan are going to copy BMW. Next leaf will be a REX and it will have Carbon Fibre components, just like the revolutionary i3 ;-)

The next leaf won't be a Rex, the Rex will be a separate model.

I've no problem with that concept if it gets people over their fear of electrics and it gets people out of diesels, But it won't sell in Ireland. And it's likely the 60 kwh 300-340 Km Leaf II would actually be as cheap or a bit cheaper due to VRT here so I would like to have the option of not carrying around a generator which wouldn't be used with a 300 Km range.

As long as Diesel is available people are not going to change. But we will see when the 300 Km + electrics appear in just about 2 years.

BoatMad

The Push to Ev will only take place when E.U legislation demands Diesels get far cleaner or are eliminated and people have no choice but to drive electric, but it's not going to happen until then in large numbers.

You cannot " force " inadequate and unsuitable technology into a market economy. You think like a soviet command economy. How'd that work for them.

Any new transport paradigm must offer the user significant benefits over the previous. That's what encourages conversion.

When BEVS are capable of outlasting , outperform ice cars then there will be change , if BEVS cannot perform , they will be consigned to the dustbin of history

Sure, they can eliminate diesels, Plenty of petrols around, I'd have no issue with this.

Even when the 300 Km leaf arrives in 2017 I bet sales will probably still be tiny fraction of a VW Golf sales for instance.

The E.U are not going to impose stricter emissions limits on diesels any time soon and as long as this is the case the transition to electric will be extremely slow no matter how good electrics are.