Nissan to make a REX in 2016

Yawlboy

Nissan will reveal its first pre-production range-extended electric vehicle next year.


Nissan REX

Shocking !

The VRT will make the car cost a lot more here too !

We need a lot more EV models to convince people to change, currently the only real sensible option in a decent sized car is the Leaf. This isn't enough.

Nissan really need to expand their range, I bet if they had a real 300 Km range Xtrail or Quashqai they would get more people into EV.

We can forget VW, they won't have money for years to come and they will loose out big time over the next few years while they pay for the Diesel gate cock up which would have gone a hell of a long way towards making decent electrics, unbelievable muppets and just goes to show their content for Electrics.

I would like more range in the Leaf, sure but it's good for 98% of my driving which the limit is really the PCP. But there are times I would like more range and in 2 years when my lease is up and if the 60 kwh leaf isn't much more expensive then I'll be changing to that depending on if something else comes out at a decent price.

200-240 miles is plenty for me and if it really is capable of charging at around 100 kw then you'll get over twice the range for the same time on the fast charger, yes over twice. So I would never need more than that really.

say 200 miles and 160 in 30 mins, 360 miles with a 30 min top up ? excellent ! question is if the ESB will be quick to upgrade ?

BoatMad

VWs exposure in Europe is now limited to a voluntary recall , and the fitment of a €10 Euro wire grill !

I predict we will see more BEV ( and variants ) activity from all the majors over the next 5 years.

VW have already stated they are accerelating their EV plans.

I predict in the next 10 years we will see every major auto maker selling more then one model of EV. Tesla will be either , gone , about to fail or have been bought up by an established auto maker. Musk will in space ( cadet ) by then !

bk

An affordable plug-in hybrid for the Irish market would be very welcome and would add many people who might be sitting on the fence about EV's

Introduce a car the size of the leaf, with a 40 to 50 km battery range, REX and the price of a leaf and I'd buy it in a heart beat.

The whole BS with ESB eCars charging has killed BEV's in my mind for at least the next 5 years.

BoatMad

bk wrote: »

An affordable plug-in hybrid for the Irish market would be very welcome and would add many people who might be sitting on the fence about EV's

Introduce a car the size of the leaf, with a 40 to 50 km battery range, REX and the price of a leaf and I'd buy it in a heart beat.

The whole BS with ESB eCars charging has killed BEV's in my mind for at least the next 5 years.

why would anyone want just a 40-50 km range , what you are describing is a Prius

the future is Battery not more ICE

DrPhilG

bk wrote: »

The whole BS with ESB eCars charging has killed BEV's in my mind for at least the next 5 years.

The whole BS with ESB ecars is on hold until the CER approve it. Not a hope that the charges will come in on the levels suggested.

And the 60kwh Leaf will be out in about 3 years too which will make the issue of public charging costs barely relevant.

Should see the optional 60 kwh leaf in 2 years, I doubt it will cost less than 35 K, I'd be very surprised if it does. There will probably be a 40 Kwh option too.

I can see plug ins being useful for the single car household, but they won't make them with decent battery range, not at a decent cost, the 340 Km range 60 Kwh Leaf would be a seriously good alternative to a plug in in 2 years, then I can't see the need for many ICe cars. We just need more longer range battery cars, the tesla will be too expensive, at German territory I doubt anyone will change from a Premium badge diesel for a Tesla as much as I love them they don't have the premium image of German cars. Anyone buying a car for 40 odd K won't care about the running costs really , or maybe they do a bit if they buy Diesels.

2-3 years will be an interesting time for electrics but Nissan really need to electrify their entire fleet by 2020, they did say they will have more EV models by then.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

And the 60kwh Leaf will be out in about 3 years too which will make the issue of public charging costs barely relevant.

Exactly !

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

why would anyone want just a 40-50 km range , what you are describing is a Prius

the future is Battery not more ICE

Prius hasn't got more than about 12 Km EV range for the plug in.

The future is without doubt battery but the E.U are still hell bent on supporting Diesels even after the Climate Gate scandal and the WHO report on diesel exhaust. Shocking really. Even our own Government aren;t going to do anything about ridding our streets of diesel.

bk

bk wrote: »

The whole BS with ESB eCars charging has killed BEV's in my mind for at least the next 5 years.

Killed of what, 0.4 % of the market ? highly doubtful.

EV sales might grow a bit in 2016, each year has seen a small increase in sales, I expect that to continue until there is a radical change in E.U policy/ regulation on Diesel and emissions and not before then.

There will still be the EV enthusiasts who will buy EV in the same numbers we've seen and those who want an EV and most of these people will have researched them and will know whether it suits them or not.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

EV sales might grow a bit in 2016.

Indications so far are that Q1 2016 will see double the sales of Q1 2015.

We're coming from a very low base here.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Indications so far are that Q1 2016 will see double the sales of Q1 2015.

We're coming from a very low base here.

Nice to see but yeah, very low base indeed.

bk

BoatMad wrote: »

why would anyone want just a 40-50 km range , what you are describing is a Prius

the future is Battery not more ICE

Well the 40 to 50km would do most people for their daily commute and thus perfect for keeping ugly, noisy, dirty diesels out of our city centers. While the REX eliminates any worries about range for those longer weekend trips.

Such a car perfectly matches my needs. I have a zero daily commute, as I walk to work, but I would drive medium to long distances at weekends, Cork, Wicklow, etc.

The current leaf simply can't do that.

The Prius sold in Ireland aren't plug in and only have about 2km range in pure EV mode. The plug in Prius only had 12km range on pure EV.

Leaving aside the Tesla S, which while a beautiful car is WAY outside my price range, the Volt looks like the prefect car for my needs, roughly the same price as the Leaf, while bigger then the leaf, with 50km range and zero range anxiety.

The Golf GTE is the only plugin hybrid I know of in Ireland, but it is a good €12000 more then I'd consider reasonable.

DrPhilG wrote: »

The whole BS with ESB ecars is on hold until the CER approve it. Not a hope that the charges will come in on the levels suggested.

It is rumoured to be on hold. And even then, we don't know what they will decide. Maybe they will decide what the ESB was proposing is perfectly fine, maybe then will charge even more, no one knows!

And such uncertainty is a killer, when you are talking about something like a car, which is such an expensive purchase and most people expect to last MANY years.

DrPhilG wrote: »

And the 60kwh Leaf will be out in about 3 years too which will make the issue of public charging costs barely relevant.

And yet more rumours! Honestly who knows? Maybe they will, maybe they won't, maybe it will cost €35,000 and thus well outside my price range.

I find it interesting that Nissan is now talking about REX cars. Nissan who hs sold more BEV's then any other company and who has invested more in BEV's then any other company are now changing their tune!

It seems to me that Nissan have been relatively disappointed in the sales numbers of their Leaf, which has come nowhere near what they originally estimated. Perhaps they now realise that the majority of normal people have serious range anxiety and anything short of 300km+ battery with max 30 minute charging for a reasonable price, makes EV's a no go for joe soap.

I suspect that Nissan should know better then anyone what cars, with what batteries and what range they can do in the next 2 to 5 years is and I suspect they know they can't reach numbers that will be good enough for the majority of the general public in the next 5 years, so they are now looking at a more realistic stepping stone of a REX.

BTW it is interesting to note that in the last month, the new Volt has significantly outsold the new 2016 Leaf (bigger battery) and deeply discounted 2015 Leafs (as much as $10,000 off!). This indicates range anxiety is a real thing and that many people think the same way as me about plug-in hybrids.

Honestly I get that some people are hard core EV enthusiasts here. But I honestly think some of you have a seriously distorted view of what joe public is actually willing to buy in the real world.

BEV of course should be the long term goal. But it certainly isn't going to happen overnight. Hybrid Yaris, Auris, Prius and plug-in hybrid REX are all good stepping stones towards general acceptance of EV's by the general public.

One or two BEV's aren't going to change much. But various plug-in hybrids from all manufacturers across the range of all their cars will go a very long way with helping to gradually improve public EV acceptance.

Rafal

@bk, the current Leaf does 100-160km. The Jan Leaf will do 130-200km. I'm not sure what do you mean by 40-50km, please clarify.

The current Leaf will do 110-130 Kms at 100 -110 Kph, 140 kms at 60-90 Kph.

The 30 Kwh should do 140-170 Kms 100-110 Kph and 200 Kms 60-90 Kph. It does charge a bit quicker than the current leaf for more range.

Plug ins are too expensive, even the plug in prius is a lot more expensive than the Leaf. Look at the GTE golf and Passat !

As much as I love electrics, I do realise that when most people are thinking about buying a new car that EV isn't even a thought, very few people want one, the greatest reason being is that EV doesn't interest them.

The Push to Ev will only take place when E.U legislation demands Diesels get far cleaner or are eliminated and people have no choice but to drive electric, but it's not going to happen until then in large numbers.

ESB charges, range all this doesn't matter as long as most people have absolutely no interest in electrics in the first place.

And the 60 Kwh Leaf will be out late 2016 or early 2017. My guess is 35 K and a 40 Kwh maybe 28-30K.

Who knows what will happen in 2-3 years but one thing for sure is the 340 Km range Leaf is coming in 2017.

BoatMad

Who knows what will happen in 2-3 years but one thing for sure is the 340 Km range Leaf is coming in 2017.

when I get 340km at 130kmph in a head wind with the heater on , lights on, going up a motorway hill, then Im a " believe....er"

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

when I get 340km at 130kmph in a head wind with the heater on , lights on, going up a motorway hill, then Im a " believe....er"

One minute you love em then you hate them, make up your mind !

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

One minute you love em then you hate them, make up your mind !

love the concept , hate the implementation or more correctly love the electric motor, hate the battery

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

love the concept , hate the implementation or more correctly love the electric motor, hate the battery

Suits me fine for the moment until the 60 Kwh arrives. Currently 26,300 Kms or close since January.

What would I want an ICE car for ?

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Suits me fine for the moment until the 60 Kwh arrives. Currently 26,300 Kms or close since January.

What would I want an ICE car for ?

em, I think " everyone " on boards.ie knows you dont want an ICE....:)

bk

Rafal wrote: »

@bk, the current Leaf does 100-160km. The Jan Leaf will do 130-200km. I'm not sure what do you mean by 40-50km, please clarify.

Yes, I know the Leaf has that range, I was talking about the Volt or a possible Nissan REX having 40 to 50km battery range, plus almost unlimited petrol range via REX being the ideal car for me and many other people.

Deleted User wrote: »

Plug ins are too expensive, even the plug in prius is a lot more expensive than the Leaf. Look at the GTE golf and Passat !

They are here in Ireland, but in the US, the Volt costs the same as the SV leaf costs in the US, while being a bigger car! Thus why the new 2016 Voly is seemingly flying out of the dealers, with them being sold before they even arrive.

The BMW i3 is so expensive for what it is simply because of the BMW badge. The Golf GTE and Passat are similarly expensive because of the VW german brand and because GT's are supposed to be their top tier sports performance models.

That is why I'm hoping for a REX from Nissan on a leaf type body, that would hopefully be a much more reasonable proposition and I don't see why it should be much more expensive then a leaf.

Sure it will need to add a REX engine and petrol tank, but it will be able to cut the battery pack down to just a 8KWh and no need for fast charging. So some cost savings there to balance out the extra cost of a small REX engine.

BoatMad wrote: »

love the concept , hate the implementation or more correctly love the electric motor, hate the battery

Here, here. I love the concept of EVs and I love how easy they are to drive. But the battery, range and charging infrastructure still sucks.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

em, I think " everyone " on boards.ie knows you dont want an ICE....:)

I've no need for an ICE for 135 Kms trip.

I do appreciate where the Plug in would come in handy for single car house holds at this point in time but they are expensive and a 60 kwh Leaf would most likely cost the same or less.

We have the diesel for the much longer trips that I couldn't be arsed driving in the Leaf.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no need for an ICE for 135 Kms trip.

I do appreciate where the Plug in would come in handy for single car house holds at this point in time but they are expensive and a 60 kwh Leaf would most likely cost the same or less.

We have the diesel for the much longer trips that I couldn't be arsed driving in the Leaf.

sure, its exactly why Im buying a leaf, its suit a specific purpose, because BEVs are simply not general purpose cars at this point in time, and its for SWMBO, I'm sticking with the monster pickup truck ( just about to fit big extra driving lights , clunky tyres etc )

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

I do appreciate where the Plug in would come in handy for single car house holds at this point in time but they are expensive and a 60 kwh Leaf would most likely cost the same or less.

We have the diesel for the much longer trips that I couldn't be arsed driving in the Leaf.

And that is the problem, if the only way you can really use a BEV is by owning a second diesel car for long trips, then they will completely fail to take off with the general public. Which I'm sure is something all of us EV fans want to see happen.

The problem with all EV's at the moment, both BEV's and PHEV's is that any with a sufficient range are just too expensive. Leaf is a little expensive, but ok priced, but it doesn't have the range. Tesla has great range for a BEV, but WAY too expensive at €100,000 for joe public to buy. The Golf GTE looks to be a great car, with great range, but at least €12,000 too expensive for what it is.

What we need is vehicles with 300km range (real world) for about €25,000 (max €30,000) in order for EV's to take off with the general public. Frankly I don't really care if such a vehicle is a BEV or a PHEV with 50km battery range, just as long as we get their as soon as possible.

BoatMad

What we need is vehicles with 300km range (real world) for about €25,000 (max €30,000) in order for EV's to take off with the general public. Frankly I don't really care if such a vehicle is a BEV or a PHEV with 50km battery range, just as long as we get their as soon as possible.

we all know what we want, whether we'll get them , well.......

bk

bk wrote: »

They are here in Ireland, but in the US, the Volt costs the same as the SV leaf costs in the US, while being a bigger car! Thus why the new 2016 Voly is seemingly flying out of the dealers, with them being sold before they even arrive.

Unfortunately we have to pay tax and import duty in Ireland. GM can discount the Volt int he U.S as much as they want also.

bk wrote: »

The BMW i3 is so expensive for what it is simply because of the BMW badge. The Golf GTE and Passat are similarly expensive because of the VW german brand and because GT's are supposed to be their top tier sports performance models.

That's always the case with premium badges.

bk wrote: »

That is why I'm hoping for a REX from Nissan on a leaf type body, that would hopefully be a much more reasonable proposition and I don't see why it should be much more expensive then a leaf.

V.R.T will make it expensive. And the added cost of a battery + engine. Doubt it would be financially viable but I guess we'll see.

bk wrote: »

Sure it will need to add a REX engine and petrol tank, but it will be able to cut the battery pack down to just a 12KWh and no need for fast charging. So some cost savings there to balance out the extra cost of a small REX engine.

On the contrary, those with plug ins and small batteries find themselves wishing they had more Ev range and are always looking to plug in once they realise they probably should have gone for the full battery car. These plug in owners wish they had fast charging capability, but if they did they would be unnecessarily be taking up valuable charging infrastructure for those full battery cars that actually depend on it.

You say better to have the engine for the couple of trips a year the ev won't make it, I say you can also use the much longer range EV and the fast chargers for the times you need to do the longer trip.

The 60 Kwh leaf would require very few fast charges with 300-340 kms range.

bk wrote: »

But the battery, range and charging infrastructure still sucks.

The infrastructure in Ireland does not suck, it's quiet a good Network, I used it daily for commuting for 9 months and only came across one issue with the QC at newlands Cross, my greatest issue was with people at Naas taking the piss with people abusing the free service !!!

Oafley Jones

Deleted User wrote: »

Suits me fine for the moment until the 60 Kwh arrives. Currently 26,300 Kms or close since January.

What would I want an ICE car for ?

Deleted User wrote: »

We have the diesel for the much longer trips that I couldn't be arsed driving in the Leaf.

Said without a single bit of irony.

BoatMad

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Said without a single bit of irony.

He is a master of the compartmentalised brain in operation

Oafley Jones

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Said without a single bit of irony.

I don't want one.

Oafley Jones

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Said without a single bit of irony.

I don't want an ICE car.

Seriously, I don't want need an ICE car. My partner owns the Diesel C'eed. And she won't travel in the Leaf if it requires a charge in between.

Oafley Jones

BoatMad wrote: »

He is a master of the compartmentalised brain in operation

It's kind of stunning isn't it. The mental and logical gymnastics that are performed to suit his arguments. It makes for a terrible advocate for EVs.

BoatMad

bk wrote: »

And that is the problem, if the only way you can really use a BEV is by owning a second diesel car for long trips, then they will completely fail to take off with the general public. Which I'm sure is something all of us EV fans want to see happen.

Everyone here accepts that BEVs must seriously improve to be taken as a serious all round car in direct competition with ICE.

we wait in " faith " , Mad_lad performs the required religious BEV ceremony every day in anticipation

The problem with all EV's at the moment, both BEV's and PHEV's is that any with a sufficient range are just too expensive. Leaf is a little expensive, but ok priced, but it doesn't have the range. Tesla has great range for a BEV, but WAY too expensive at €100,000 for joe public to buy. The Golf GTE looks to be a great car, with great range, but at least €12,000 too expensive for what it is.

that is rather self evident to say the least

What we need is vehicles with 300km range (real world) for about €25,000 (max €30,000) in order for EV's to take off with the general public. Frankly I don't really care if such a vehicle is a BEV or a PHEV with 50km battery range, just as long as we get their as soon as possible.

PHEV is a dead end as is an ICE dressed up as a EV. a 50km PHEV is a just a VRT /Tax/C02 dodger in disguise

yes we need BEVs with 300-500km range in all weathers at all speeds , sure sure....

Boat mad is constantly contradicting everything I say yet he is supposed to be buying a Leaf, Jaysus !

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Boat mad is constantly contradicting everything I say yet he is supposed to be buying a Leaf, Jaysus !

nope, I contradict the nonsense things you say, I agree with the sensible thing you say ( see several posts) of course my first posts tend to drown the second, but I cant help that

to summarise , assuming a few things line up, Ill buy a Leaf, Im in no way a fan-boy of current BEVs

Lol so all you don't agree with which is pretty much 99% of what I say, yet you say you intend buying a Leaf, ? lol why would you if they are only viable in your opinion with 300-500 Km range ? "in all weathers" Lol

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol so all you don't agree with which is pretty much 99% of what I say, yet you say you intend buying a Leaf, ? lol why would you if they are only viable in your opinion with 300-500 Km range ? "in all weathers" Lol

because the Leaf , just squeezes into a financial category that makes sense for a particular commute. i.e. I min/maxed the numbers and it makes sense


it does not make sense elsewhere and does not make sense in general as a substitute for a general family car.

which is where the 300-500km at 130 kmph in all weathers comes from

I do have the " faith " that BEVs will " get" there in the end, timescales are an other issue, there are also major charging technical issue to be resolved

Ultimately however they will not be cheaper to run I firmly believe as home charging is not a long term solution and dedicated charging " filling stations : will have to be built and paid for , thats means dear fuel./electricity

but by then the clear performance advantage of the electric motor will be evident to all the boy racers and GTI buyers

as I said, Im a big fan of electric motors , not a fan of chemical power storage

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

because the Leaf , just squeezes into a financial category that makes sense for a particular commute. i.e. I min/maxed the numbers and it makes sense


it does not make sense elsewhere and does not make sense in general as a substitute for a general family car.

which is where the 300-500km at 130 km in all weathers comes form

I do have the " faith " that BEVs will " get" there in the end, timescales are an other issue

LOL and in another thread you keep going on how a diesel is economically more viable than the Leaf to buy ? holy moly !

@ 130 Km ? so if you can get 300 Km at 110 Kph it's not suitable ?

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

as I said, Im a big fan of electric motors , not a fan of chemical power storage

Then you shouldn't be thinking of buy a battery car now should you ?

Yawlboy

bk wrote: »

The BMW i3 is so expensive for what it is simply because of the BMW badge.

I have to disagree with you on this, the i3 is the only mass produced carbon fibre car. The technology used to build it is ground breaking, even when compared to other EV's.

Have a look at this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8


I couldn't care about the badge to be honest, for what it is the i3 could have a Tata badge and I'd still have bought it.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

@ 130 Km ? so if you can get 300 Km at 110 Kph it's not suitable ?

no not as a substitute for a normal car in everyday use. I want and need to "bomb" up a motorway at full tilt ( or every over full tilt )

I did it yesterday cause I was late for a meeting

110kmph is sooooooo slow ( I worked in germany and had a Audi quattro...)

Yawlboy

Yawlboy wrote: »

I have to disagree with you on this, the i3 is the only mass produced carbon fibre car. The technology in in is ground breaking, even when compared to other EV's.

.

The Leaf is far more ground breaking, without all that over priced fancy carbon Nissan can sell it much cheaper for much the same range, the fact the Leaf isn't as efficient or quiet as light matters far less, so what if it needs another 3 kwh for the same range , that's what , 24 cent ?

The I3 is a good car and a different league than the Leaf, but most people are not willing to pay for it.

Yawlboy

Deleted User wrote: »

The Leaf is far more ground breaking, without all that over priced fancy carbon Nissan can sell it much cheaper for much the same range, the fact the Leaf isn't as efficient or quiet as light matters far less.

The I3 is a good car and a different league than the Leaf, but most people are not willing to pay for it.

The Leaf is a cheap mass produced EV and a very good one at that - there is nothing ground breaking about it when it comes to revolutionizing car manufacturing. The i3 on the other hand is showcasing a new way of building cars with 1/3 the setup costs of a traditional steel car, including EV's.

Yawlboy

Yawlboy wrote: »

The Leaf is a cheap mass produced EV and a very good one at that - there is nothing ground breaking about it when it comes to revolutionizing car manufacturing. The i3 on the other hand is showcasing a new way of building cars with 1/3 the setup costs of a traditional steel car, including EV's.

The Production of the Leaf may not be revolutionary but being able to bring an affordable EV to the Public much cheaper than the I3 is.

cros13

bk wrote: »

And that is the problem, if the only way you can really use a BEV is by owning a second diesel car for long trips, then they will completely fail to take off with the general public.

I'd don't have a petrol or diesel car and I drive more than double the average Irish driver's mileage. I used the REx once in 31,000km (I didn't actually have to, I got caught in traffic for 5 hours on the M6 coming up from London and didn't want to change my ferry booking).

bk wrote: »

Tesla has great range for a BEV, but WAY too expensive at €100,000 for joe public to buy.

It's not €100,000. If you got the SEAI grant (which you'll be able to as soon as the Tesla store opens) the Model S starts at around €82,000. If they brought back the VRT exemption closer to €70,000. and if Tesla reduced the RHD surcharge (as they've started to do) then less than €60,000 including VAT and delivery.

bk wrote: »

What we need is vehicles with 300km range (real world) for about €25,000 (max €30,000) in order for EV's to take off with the general public.

Tesla has stated the Model 3 will be available for £25,000 in the UK. 320-350km range. Now whether they can build enough of them to meet demand is another story. I'll have a deposit down in March on one, even though I'm probably getting a Model X next year I'd like to have the option of the Model 3.

BoatMad wrote: »

which is where the 300-500km at 130 kmph in all weathers comes from

A very small number of people actually drive those distances more than a couple of times a year. People have no idea of their own needs. Personally I had 6 years of data from a data logger that told me exactly where and how far I'd driven so I had numbers in front of me that told me BEV was going to be better.

Deleted User wrote: »

that over priced fancy carbon

BMW's CFRP is 10 times cheaper than traditional carbon fiber frame production. The real value of CFRP for them is not the showcase all-CFRP frame. It's that they now have CFRP production at-scale figured out and they are using CFRP reinforcing members to reduce the weight of their other production vehicles.

BTW Nissan are building a CFRP production facility for the next Leaf....

Yawlboy

Deleted User wrote: »

The Production of the Leaf may not be revolutionary but being able to bring an affordable EV to the Public much cheaper than the I3 is.

They are two different things - the Leaf is a normal car with an EV drive train. The i3 is a new way of building cars. Price is nothing to do with it. BMW are not targeting the Leaf with the i3 - different market sectors and with regards to the approach BMW have taken. However Nissan are going to copy BMW. Next leaf will be a REX and it will have Carbon Fibre components, just like the revolutionary i3 ;-)

The next leaf won't be a Rex, the Rex will be a separate model.

I've no problem with that concept if it gets people over their fear of electrics and it gets people out of diesels, But it won't sell in Ireland. And it's likely the 60 kwh 300-340 Km Leaf II would actually be as cheap or a bit cheaper due to VRT here so I would like to have the option of not carrying around a generator which wouldn't be used with a 300 Km range.

As long as Diesel is available people are not going to change. But we will see when the 300 Km + electrics appear in just about 2 years.

BoatMad

The Push to Ev will only take place when E.U legislation demands Diesels get far cleaner or are eliminated and people have no choice but to drive electric, but it's not going to happen until then in large numbers.

You cannot " force " inadequate and unsuitable technology into a market economy. You think like a soviet command economy. How'd that work for them.

Any new transport paradigm must offer the user significant benefits over the previous. That's what encourages conversion.

When BEVS are capable of outlasting , outperform ice cars then there will be change , if BEVS cannot perform , they will be consigned to the dustbin of history

Sure, they can eliminate diesels, Plenty of petrols around, I'd have no issue with this.

Even when the 300 Km leaf arrives in 2017 I bet sales will probably still be tiny fraction of a VW Golf sales for instance.

The E.U are not going to impose stricter emissions limits on diesels any time soon and as long as this is the case the transition to electric will be extremely slow no matter how good electrics are.