"Whatever should we do with lawless cyclists?"

Roadhawk

I had a suggestion in my last thread to start this post and i thought it was a great idea.

With the increase of cyclists on Irish roads and the noticeable unlawfulness that is coming with it, what should we do?

Fines are now being issued as a result of laws being broken. The Irish Times have a very interesting article that includes a poll on whether you agree that cyclists should be fined or not.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cyclists-face-on-the-spot-fines-for-seven-road-traffic-offences-1.2270816

3102derek

Whatever should we do with lawless motorists, pedesterians, motorcyclists, taxis, white van drivers..... the list goes on and on.

Martypants1

What pisses me off is the ones that think they're a pedestrian when it suits them. No, you have to stop at the red light alongside the cars.

wally79

Go to the search bar. Search for cyclists. You will find this thread 100 times.

Carawaystick

1) Quantify the lawlessness before putting any more pixels on screen.
2) Get hard numbers on the amount of laws broken, the number of cyclists breaking the laws;
3) Quantify the maximum damage that breaking those laws will produce.
4) Quantify the cost to society of that lawbreaking.
5) Quantify the cost to society of any measures you propose, to be presented with the proposals.
6) Quantify the benefit to society.
7) Translate "De Minimis Non Curat Lex" to english from latin

if 5>6 then stop.

triggermortis

Martypants1 wrote: »

What pisses me off is the ones that think they're a pedestrian when it suits them. No, you have to stop at the red light alongside the cars.

If a cyclist gets off his/her bike and walks with it, then they ARE a pedestrian. Trouble is, some don't get off their bikes and it annoys people. Some people in cars/vans/lorries etc don't give cyclists enough room, and that's beyond annoying, it's dangerous.
Some pedestrians would rather look at their phones instead of where they are walking..
There are idiots on/in every mode of transport and if more people were more considerate to other road/path users, things would be less stressful for everyone

RobbieTheRobber

Roadhawk wrote: »

I had a suggestion in my last thread to start this post and i thought it was a great idea.

With the increase of cyclists on Irish roads and the noticeable unlawfulness that is coming with it, what should we do?

Fines are now being issued as a result of laws being broken. The Irish Times have a very interesting article that includes a poll on whether you agree that cyclists should be fined or not.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cyclists-face-on-the-spot-fines-for-seven-road-traffic-offences-1.2270816

This was great big news back in July. Well done for getting around to reading it now.

Since then some cyclists have been fined, has there been a noticeable decline in unlawfulness as you perceive it?

cgcsb

Facilities is the solution, I get up on the path the odd time when it's quite, not because I'm trying to mow down pedestrians but because it's sometimes a safer option than the roadway.

Roadhawk

wally79 wrote: »

Go to the search bar. Search for cyclists. You will find this thread 100 times.

Must have some truth in it being such a popular topic. Has it gone viral?

RobbieTheRobber

Roadhawk wrote: »

Must have some truth in it being such a popular topic. Has it gone viral?

:D:D:D:D

Your new to the internet then I take it?

Roadhawk

cgcsb wrote: »

Facilities is the solution, I get up on the path the odd time when it's quite, not because I'm trying to mow down pedestrians but because it's sometimes a safer option than the roadway.

I think cyclists should be allowed on pathways for safety. The Irish road network is not ready for unlawful cyclists. Most cyclists consider themselves pedestrians anyway.

Saipanne

triggermortis wrote: »

If a cyclist gets off his/her bike and walks with it, then they ARE a pedestrian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHtCNhABlLw

Roadhawk

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

This was great big news back in July. Well done for getting around to reading it now.

Since then some cyclists have been fined, has there been a noticeable decline in unlawfulness as you perceive it?

Absolutely not which is leading me to believe that cyclists could not give a damn about any other road users.

Seaswimmer

Yawn. What an original post..

Oh. wait..

Roadhawk This message is hidden because Roadhawk is on your ignore list.

RobbieTheRobber

Roadhawk wrote: »

Absolutely not which is leading me to believe that cyclists could not give a damn about any other road users.

Yeah I concur, with the countless dead and severely injured left lying on the streets as a result of cyclists. We have to ask why is the government not doing more to stop them?
Surely if we look at statistics we must find that cyclists are the most dangerous element in society today and so worthy of the states full attention before any other trivial matters are dealt with.

Roadhawk

3102derek wrote: »

Whatever should we do with lawless motorists, pedesterians, motorcyclists, taxis, white van drivers..... the list goes on and on.

Well what has been done for motorists is testing, licensing, fines, penalty points, bans and legislation. Wouldn't it be great if cyclists were counted as a an equal road user at all times and not just when it suits them.

cgcsb

I find that where there are cycle lanes, i.e. dotted white line on the edge of the road I'm often forced onto a footpath because other people have decided that the cycle lane is actually a left turning lane for cars or a taxi rank or parking or a loading area.

RobbieTheRobber

Roadhawk wrote: »

Well what has been done for motorists is testing, licensing, fines, penalty points, bans and legislation. Wouldn't it be great if cyclists were counted as a an equal road user at all times and not just when it suits them.

So as we have implemented all those things for drivers of motorised vehicles I assume this has eradicated all accidents and deaths caused by said drivers?

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So as we have implemented all those things for drivers of motorised vehicles I assume this has eradicated all accidents and deaths caused by said drivers?

I wouldn't usually be bothered, but that is not a correct understanding. What tests and licences and registrations create is ACCOUNTABILITY

Roadhawk

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So as we have implemented all those things for drivers of motorised vehicles I assume this has eradicated all accidents and deaths caused by said drivers?

Absolutely not. But the typical laws that were being broken be these motorists have reduced since these measures were implemented. Likewise the laws being implemented for cyclists should follow the same success.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't usually be bothered, but that is not a correct understanding. What tests and licences and registrations create is ACCOUNTABILITY

So are you saying that licensing or registration of cyclists is not likely to reduce the number of offenses committed by said group?

Roadhawk

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't usually be bothered, but that is not a correct understanding. What tests and licences and registrations create is ACCOUNTABILITY

Pure sense!

Flatzie_poo

Roadhawk wrote: »

I think cyclists should be allowed on pathways for safety. The Irish road network is not ready for unlawful cyclists. Most cyclists consider themselves pedestrians anyway.

Roadhawk wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if cyclists were counted as a an equal road user at all times and not just when it suits them.

Why do you want them counted as an equal road user, when you just said you want them on the paths??

Roadhawk

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

Why do you want them counted as an equal road user, when you just said you want them on the paths??

Yep...off the road or counted as equal. either way the nonsense has to be stopped.

07Lapierre

Roadhawk wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if cyclists were counted as a an equal road user at all times and not just when it suits them.

I agree 100%! it would be great! the sooner that happens the better. the ROTR are for ALL road users!.. Gardaí please ENFORCE them!

Pinch Flat

OP, can you post any solid data on licencing for cyclists in other countries, the before an after picture of how this "lawlessness" was magically eradicated by licencing? And what impact does it have on road injuries / fatalities? We still have licenced drivers, of whom a fair proportion:

Ignore road traffic law / ROTR
Can't use the infrastructure provided them, particularly roundabouts, motorways and traffic lights;
Chose to drink and drive;
Kill 200 annually;
Injure many thousands more

What exact problem are you trying to resolve, other than trying to remove cyclists from the road?

Or is Ireland going to be a trail blazer and introduce a pointless licencing system?

cajonlardo

Roadhawk wrote: »

Absolutely not which is leading me to believe that cyclists could not give a damn about any other road users.

http://road.cc/content/news/172326-insurance-firm-offer-cyclists-cheaper-car-insurance-%E2%80%93-because-theyre-better

Insurance firms deal in cold hard facts. (Probably why my accident free for 35 years motor insurance costs me more than ten times what my insurance for cycling costs.)

Roadhawk

cajonlardo wrote: »

http://road.cc/content/news/172326-insurance-firm-offer-cyclists-cheaper-car-insurance-%E2%80%93-because-theyre-better

Insurance firms deal in cold hard facts. (Probably why my accident free for 35 years motor insurance costs me more than ten times what my insurance for cycling costs.)

I have to say that 35 years accident free is impressive and should be recognized by insurance companies and reflected in the premium etc. I agree that insurance companies deal with facts and the biggest fact of all is that motorists are legally obliged to have insurance on the vehicle the are driving so why wouldn't insurance companies charge a little extra when they can. Do you think that the price of insuring a bike would stay the same if it was a legal requirement?

just for the record i completely agree with the increase of premiums were in the event of accidents.

Pinch Flat

Roadhawk wrote: »

I agree that insurance companies deal with facts and the biggest fact of all is that motorists are legally obliged to have insurance on the vehicle the are driving so why wouldn't insurance companies charge a little extra when they can. Do you think that the price of insuring a bike would stay the same if it was a legal requirement?.

But you're no just insuring the vehicle, be it a car or bike - the cost of repalcing these is relatively small in an accident.

It's the resultant injury / loss of life resulting from accidents that are a lot more expensive for an insurance company. Cars cause more mayhem on the roads, and the medical and settlement costs arising from car accidents are a lot higher. This is reflected in the insurance premiums people pay. Bikes don't.

schemingbohemia

What is nonsense, is this thread. Should be in After Hours with the children.

On my walk here, I passed 6 cars driving through the bus gate at College Green and 20 cars and vans driving up the cycle lane on Stephen's Green South. Obviously something must be done for these people too.

Your user name is well chosen, though I might change Road to something else.

Roadhawk

Pinch Flat wrote: »

OP, can you post any solid data on licencing for cyclists in other countries, the before an after picture of how this "lawlessness" was magically eradicated by licencing? And what impact sis it have on road injuries / fatalities? We still have licenced drivers, of whom a fair proportion:

Ignore road traffic law / ROTR
Can't use the infrastructure provided them, particularly roundabouts, motorways and traffic lights;
Chose to drink and drive;
Kill 200 annually;
Injure many thousands more

What exact problem are you trying to resolve, other than trying to remove cyclists from the road?

Or is Ireland going to be a trail blazer and introduce a pointless licencing system?

I agree with the points you have made around the actions of motorists but again many (not all) cyclists can be tared with the same brush.

I have no intention of removing cyclists from the road completely only the ones that are continuous law breakers. They are pests to other road users.

(My opinion)
One day our generation will be gone and the roads will have evolved. The same way horses were phased out as a main mode of transport so to will cycling.