Connolly Commuter / Intercity Services about to get even slower

techdiver

room_149 wrote: »

Even worse when you consider Mullingar to Connolly Station is 50miles!
The Train to Connolly took anywhere between 1hr:10mins to 1hr:30mins when I had to use that service a few years back.
Gave up on it after a few weeks and started driving to Maynooth or Louisa Bridge instead in the mornings. Parked the car and got the arrow into Drumcondra. Total commuting time took no more than an hour each way by doing so, 45 to 50mins infact
My heart goes out to the hundreds who still use that commuter train from Mullingar on a daily basis. It's ridiculously slow for a journey of that distance.

Sorry I meant 80km, so 50 miles yes.

loyatemu

monument wrote: »

Because there will be extra capacity for an increasing number of commuters and better frequently can mean shorter and more dependable trips from door to door.

Extra capacity... they're not buying any extra trains, are there trains lying around idle during rush hour now? If not then all they're doing is spreading the capacity out.

shorter trips... I asked previously for a existing commuter to give me a practical example of how the new timetable will shorten their commute. An example has been given for the Malahide line, but it's not the 10-minute frequency that's improving things there. They could reallocate trains within the existing timetable to improve service to Malahide.

LXFlyer

loyatemu wrote: »

Extra capacity... they're not buying any extra trains, are there trains lying around idle during rush hour now? If not then all they're doing is spreading the capacity out.

shorter trips... I asked previously for a existing commuter to give me a practical example of how the new timetable will shorten their commute. An example has been given for the Malahide line, but it's not the 10-minute frequency that's improving things there. They could reallocate trains within the existing timetable to improve service to Malahide.

The full DART fleet is not in operation at present. The NTA are providing additional funding to press sets back into service.


Malahide is now getting a fixed 20 minute DART service all day - the previous timetable provided a 30 minute service but with commuter trains making additional stops which in turn meant more people using northern line trains than necessary. These trains will now not stop until Malahide.


Clearly the new timetable is not faster - but it is hopefully more robust, and the DART timetable in particular is probably a more accurate reflection of reality in terms of running speeds.

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

Malahide is now getting a fixed 20 minute DART service all day - the previous timetable provided a 30 minute service but with commuter trains making additional stops which in turn meant more people using northern line trains than necessary. These trains will now not stop until Malahide.

If only the Malahide branch did have a fixed 30 minute timetable during peak! That is my main gripe, it doesn't which directly contributes to the evening crush!

I honestly believe if they stick with these principles with a proper balance of 3 trains an hour to Howth and 3 trains an hour to Malahide much of my current gripes with gross overcrowding on the Malahide branch in the evening with huge amounts spare capacity on the Howth branch will be resolved.

The Malahide branch overcrowding in the evening is due to a combination of bad balance between Howth and Malahide which isn't reflective of demand, a 48 minute timetable gap between services and 4 car trains.

They had to do something about 5 Howth DARTs in an hour being lightly loaded whilst 2 Malahide DARTs in 90 minutes were leaving some people not being able to board and waiting 48 minutes for the next one, so I'm glad it is finally being sorted.

bk

loyatemu wrote: »

Extra capacity... they're not buying any extra trains, are there trains lying around idle during rush hour now? If not then all they're doing is spreading the capacity out.

As has been said above, there are absolutely are DART's lying idle at the moment. They are planning on pressing them into service. So yes, there will be lots of extra capacity:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/standing-room-only-irish-rail-and-dart-carriages-out-of-service-as-passenger-numbers-return-to-boomtime-levels-31030805.html

Also even if there isn't enough DARTs carriages for full 8 carriages every 10 minutes, there will be now nothing stopping them buying extra new carriages if the demand is there.

What was holding them back all along, was signalling capacity. It didn't make sense to buy more DART carriages then they could actually use. But now with the extra signalling capacity they can increase frequency and if the demand is there, it makes sense to max it out with more carriages.

After all Irish Rails biggest expense is wages, they will need extra drivers for this increased frequency, adding a few extra carriages is a small incremental cost if the demand is there.

With Irish Rail passengers back to celtic tiger levels, Dublin cities population expected to explode over the next few years, with the government finding they have an extra 3 billion in taxes to play with and with Irish Rail now having the track capacity, I fully expect we will find Irish Rail putting in an order for a bunch of new DART carriages next year.

Given that they have invested €120 million in this resignalling project, I seriously doubt they aren't gonig to spend a few million more on some extra DART carriages now that they have the track capacity!

I fully expect the government to rollout a package of Phoenix Park tunnel project + 10 minute DARTs + extra dart carriages as a fairly cheap alternative to Dart Underground next year ahead of the election.

And rightfully so! Before spending billions on new infrastructure, we should be maxing out the capability of existing infrastructure at a fraction of the cost first.

Having said that, given how good the economy is doing, I hope they will bring forward Metro North now and bring Dart Underground back on the table.

LXFlyer

To be fair - there is a downside to this expansion.

Anyone travelling on commuter services and the Enterprise may suffer some additional journey times, and the DART will take longer too.

However, as I said above the additional running time on the DART should mean that the timetable becomes more robust and less trains running late.

But what this expansion flags to me is that the infrastructure north of Connolly badly needs investment - four tracking for some of the line between Connolly and Clongriffin is going to have to come onto the political agenda sooner rather than later, as both the Enterprise and Northern line services may become less competitive from a time perspective versus other options.

This timetable does not need the re-signalling to be completed - that won't happen until later next year.

But this and the PPT services should not be seen in any way as an alternative to DART Underground - that project remains critical for this city.

Losty Dublin

lxflyer wrote: »

But what this expansion flags to me is that the infrastructure north of Connolly badly needs investment - four tracking for some of the line between Connolly and Clongriffin is going to have to come onto the political agenda sooner rather than later, as both the Enterprise and Northern line services may become less competitive from a time perspective versus other options.
.

CIE have been looking for this for years now; to date no government have addressed it beyond lip service.

cgcsb

Losty Dublin wrote: »

CIE have been looking for this for years now; to date no government have addressed it beyond lip service.

The government built social housing and permitted private housing to be built right beside the line, ensuring it can't be widened.

StudentDad

I take my hat off to anyone who has to commute to Dublin on a daily basis. I had to endure morning and evening traffic over a couple of days last year. Yikes. I think I'd go mad having to endure that every day.

The sooner there is a decent transport system that means the car can sit in the drive, the better.

SD

Infini

cgcsb wrote: »

The government built social housing and permitted private housing to be built right beside the line, ensuring it can't be widened.

They can always buy them out with a CPO if needs be. Besides the "social housing" isnt doing the North of the dart line any favours expecially since theres a ton of antisocial behavior and drug problems in the area around the junction.

devnull

Clongriffin already has three platforms and there should be room to have another one on the Baldoyle side without a huge problem because that is the side without houses next to Platform 1 and originally was going to be a fourth platform but no tracks or overhead lines were laid.

Platform 3 is not used for services right now, and that is on the side with houses and is often used as a place to house trains during disruption. It has exactly the same facilities as Platform 1 to the City and Platform 2 to Malahide.

The other side of Platform 1 is even has shelters on it, signs and "KEEP BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE" written on it like a normal platform, the only thing it is missing is track and overhead lines and signals. The physical platform is already built, it just has a fence instead of track.

Building track will be a little harder between Howth Junction and Clongriffin, but Clongriffin certainly has the layout and infrastructure to allow four platforms and thus a chance of overtaking if they want to add a fourth.

tabbey

Undoubtedly Malahide and Howth each merit a twenty minute frequency. The problem is that without four tracking, a proper service cannot be provided to both the DART and longer distance services.
Ideally, route widening should have been undertaken before electrification started in 1981.Unfortunately, governments, both political and civil service, have ignored this necessity for the last forty years.

During the celtic bubble era, the situation got even worse, housing and commercial buildings were erected immediately next to the rail line at Laytown, Donabate, Malahide, Portmarnock, Howth Junction, Connolly platform seven, Tara Street, Pearse etc. Some major developments were especially inappropriate : Trinity Science Gallery, on the Tara Street side of Pearse, and the Biomedical block, also belonging to Trinity, the Ulster Bank block at Tara Street, and the office beside platform seven at Connolly.
At the same time Siding capacity was butchered on the instructions of a minister from the midlands, whose constituents now commute on trains which have to continue to Bray for turnaround, then run empty to Drogheda for servicing, before returning for the evening peak, complete madness.

Until such time as the public make an election issue of this disgraceful farce, government will continue to ignore it, and commuter services will get slower and slower.

thomasj

It has me wondering, with plans for electrification to Balbriggan sooner than later, is there plans for howth shuttle sooner rather than later?

LXFlyer

tabbey wrote: »

Undoubtedly Malahide and Howth each merit a twenty minute frequency. The problem is that without four tracking, a proper service cannot be provided to both the DART and longer distance services.
Ideally, route widening should have been undertaken before electrification started in 1981.Unfortunately, governments, both political and civil service, have ignored this necessity for the last forty years.

During the celtic bubble era, the situation got even worse, housing and commercial buildings were erected immediately next to the rail line at Laytown, Donabate, Malahide, Portmarnock, Howth Junction, Connolly platform seven, Tara Street, Pearse etc. Some major developments were especially inappropriate : Trinity Science Gallery, on the Tara Street side of Pearse, and the Biomedical block, also belonging to Trinity, the Ulster Bank block at Tara Street, and the office beside platform seven at Connolly.
At the same time Siding capacity was butchered on the instructions of a minister from the midlands, whose constituents now commute on trains which have to continue to Bray for turnaround, then run empty to Drogheda for servicing, before returning for the evening peak, complete madness.

Until such time as the public make an election issue of this disgraceful farce, government will continue to ignore it, and commuter services will get slower and slower.

You don't need four tracking all the way along the northern line, just sufficient to allow an express (or perhaps two) overtake a DART. Undoubtedly it will not be cheap, but CPOs will have to happen along some of the line between Connolly and Howth Junction sufficient to allow such overtaking happen.

I don't see the building issue between Connolly and Pearse - the re-signalling should solve capacity issues over the loop bridge.

Also, the Sligo or Longford trains don't go to Bray to turn around - I'm not sure where you're getting that impression. They turn at Connolly and Pearse respectively. The only trains which go to Bray are the four services off the Northern Line and one from Maynooth.

There have been sidings beyond Pearse removed temporarily, while the city centre resignalling project is ongoing, but those are (I believe) going to be reinstated, along with the addition of the turnback platform at Grand Canal Dock.

Now, what I do think was a serious error, was closing the ICR servicing depot at Connolly - having to send the Sligo sets out to Drogheda for servicing and back again each day is daft and does place restrictions on fleet utilisation.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

Clongriffin already has three platforms and there should be room to have another one on the Baldoyle side without a huge problem because that is the side without houses next to Platform 1 and originally was going to be a fourth platform but no tracks or overhead lines were laid.

Platform 3 is not used for services right now, and that is on the side with houses and is often used as a place to house trains during disruption. It has exactly the same facilities as Platform 1 to the City and Platform 2 to Malahide.

The other side of Platform 1 is even has shelters on it, signs and "KEEP BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE" written on it like a normal platform, the only thing it is missing is track and overhead lines and signals. The physical platform is already built, it just has a fence instead of track.

Building track will be a little harder between Howth Junction and Clongriffin, but Clongriffin certainly has the layout and infrastructure to allow four platforms and thus a chance of overtaking if they want to add a fourth.

The point I was making was that the fourth platform should have been commissioned when the station was being built along with the other one.


The northbound loop is fully operational and provides an overtaking option if needed, but there is no southbound option.

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

The point I was making was that the fourth platform should have been commissioned when the station was being built along with the other one.

Agreed, it seems daft that they actually put everything on the physical platforms for a fourth platform, including writing "KEEP BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE" only to put a fence up in front of it rather than actually having a track there.

If they ever do open it, they'll have to bump all the platform numbers up by 1 as well with Platform 1 becoming 2, 2, become 3 and 3 becoming 4. Obviously when it was built was at a time of very limited funds, but now it should be put into operational.

The northbound loop is fully operational and provides an overtaking option if needed, but there is no southbound option.

Yes - Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I was just saying that it is not used for regular services, all trains operate via Platform 1 and Platform 2 only unless there is disruption when sometimes trains are stabled at Platform 3.

Platform 3 even has a full PIS display there, funnily enough it was the only platform to bet a brand new one on the station opening with the rest using older ones that are much harder to read in sunlight and the one that never displays anything appart from the time is nice and bright!

Rashers72

Most evenings Northern Suburban trains crawl behind late running DARTs to Malahide, so it would be great to see this this siding getting used. The added complication is the siding in Malahide is south of the station, so when the DART finally arrives onto the platform at Malahide, the DART driver needs to get out and go to the other end and drive the DART into that siding to allow the suburban train to pass. With all the necessary signal changes etc. I am reminded of this every evening when I am on my suburban train south of Malahide waiting for all this to happen. Very frustrating! Rant over!

devnull

Rashers72 wrote: »

Most evenings Northern Suburban trains crawl behind late running DARTs to Malahide, so it would be great to see this this siding getting used.

The reason that the Malahide trains run late in rush hour is due to their abysmal dwell times due to severe overcrowding, with the much more regular Howth's that are having plenty of space more or less running to time.

Carawaystick

I think they really missed a trick when the station platform lengthening was going on not to build the infrastructure to allow 4 tracking ( or even 3-tracking) on the northside. The ramps are in the way of any widening.