Connolly Commuter / Intercity Services about to get even slower

techdiver

So, I have been hearing for quite some time about this great city centre resignalling project that will increase the throughput of trains through connolly thus improving the service and increasing capacity. Although when it will actually arrive is anyone's guess. Consistent with the public transport offerings in Ireland. :rolleyes:

So yesterday I hear about the draft timetables for connolly and I excitedly go to the irish rail site for a look at what improvements my commute on the already ridiculously slow trains from Mullingar will have....

If I look at 2 trains I get regularly, the 7.26am from Mullingar to Connolly (the 5.45am from Sligo) arriving at 8.47am and the 5.05pm Connolly to Mullingar arriving at 6.14pm I can see the following changes. The morning train will now leave Mullingar at 7.14am and arrive in Connolly at 8.41am. This is a 6 minute increase in journey time. The 5.05pm train leaves at the same time but is now timetabled to arrive in Mullingar at 6.18pm, which is a 4 minute increase.

So mullingar to Dublin at peak time for commuters will now take 1hr and 27 minutes on the express Sligo service!!! Bravo.

With the focus on getting rid of cars from the road, would it now be better to encourage people out of their cars onto better public transport offerings? Even with traffic at that hour of the morning, it is nearly neck and neck to drive from Mullingar now.

I have not looked at other routes, but the draft timetable can be downloaded from here:

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/connolly_2016_draft_timetable.pdf

cgcsb

Many journey times have increased in order to bring in more DARTs. Really the cpacity is very limited. Without new infrastructure, DART underground etc. the rest is just tinkering. We won't see real improvement without real investment.

loyatemu

I can see why more frequent DART services will limit the timetable on longer-distance services but I can't understand why the running time for the DART itself is being increased - with more services the loadings should be more spread out and the (already ridiculously slow) dwell times reduced.

The DART is already the slowest it has ever been, in the new timetable it is even slower.

LXFlyer

loyatemu wrote: »

I can see why more frequent DART services will limit the timetable on longer-distance services but I can't understand why the running time for the DART itself is being increased - with more services the loadings should be more spread out and the (already ridiculously slow) dwell times reduced.

The DART is already the slowest it has ever been, in the new timetable it is even slower.

I think it is probably more an acceptance of reality and that the DART is actually taking longer than it is timetabled to.


Given the increased number of train services that will be operating, I'd prefer to have a more robust timetable that will work rather than one that may lead to delays on other services.

Bray Head

Current timetable advertises Pearse-Bray in 40 minutes. Draft timetable for 2016 advertises a 45-minute trip!

Older heads will correct me but wasn't a journey of 36 minutes advertised in the mid-80s? In the meantime we've added one full stop (GCD)!

techdiver

The only hope for Ireland is that employers finally embrace working from home, so that no one needs to travel into the city any more. It seems the only way it is ever going to work in this country.

It's so frustrating that journey times only increase and there is no improvement in sight. A journey of 80m takes 1 hr and 30 minutes in 2015 on a train!

bk

The thing is the Luas has proven the consistency and frequency are more important then journey times.

Many Luas journeys can be taken faster by Dublin Bus then by Luas the majority of time, yet the Luas is jam packed as people prefer a service that always arrives at the same time and is frequent.

DARTs consistently every 10 minutes on weekdays will be a massive improvement in the service. I've often said that the DART doesn't really feel like a proper mass transit city service like Luas, due to not being consistent and frequent enough. Sometimes you end up having mad 40 minute waits!

A consistent 10 minutes DART frequency will be a major improvement to the service and is likely to attract a lot more people out of their cars and onto trains.

Yes it means some journey times will be a little longer, but it is a price worth paying.

The reality is these changes will likely see a massive increase in the number of people using these services.

My only criticism is that DART's every 20 minutes on Sundays is too long. It would be better if they followed the Saturday schedule of every 15 minutes.

Bray Head

bk wrote: »

Many Luas journeys can be taken faster by Dublin Bus then by Luas the majority of time, yet the Luas is jam packed as people prefer a service that always arrives at the same time and is frequent.

On the red line perhaps but hardly the green line???

The point you are making is that there is a trade-off between speed and frequency. With the current timetable I always target a particular Dart, I never just show up. With six an hour I might be tempted to just show up.

techdiver

bk wrote: »

The thing is the Luas has proven the consistency and frequency are more important then journey times.

Many Luas journeys can be taken faster by Dublin Bus then by Luas the majority of time, yet the Luas is jam packed as people prefer a service that always arrives at the same time and is frequent.

DARTs consistently every 10 minutes on weekdays will be a massive improvement in the service. I've often said that the DART doesn't really feel like a proper mass transit city service like Luas, due to not being consistent and frequent enough. Sometimes you end up having mad 40 minute waits!

A consistent 10 minutes DART frequency will be a major improvement to the service and is likely to attract a lot more people out of their cars and onto trains.

Yes it means some journey times will be a little longer, but it is a price worth paying.

The reality is these changes will likely see a massive increase in the number of people using these services.

My only criticism is that DART's every 20 minutes on Sundays is too long. It would be better if they followed the Saturday schedule of every 15 minutes.

Why can't they trial Sligo and Maynooth trains to Docklands instead of Connolly? It would avoid the cross traffic and would surely speed up those services whilst freeing the inbound lines for even more Darts?

cgcsb

bk wrote: »

A consistent 10 minutes DART frequency will be a major improvement to the service and is likely to attract a lot more people out of their cars and onto trains.

:eek:

There isn't any room on the DART as it is.

loyatemu

bk wrote: »

A consistent 10 minutes DART frequency will be a major improvement to the service and is likely to attract a lot more people out of their cars and onto trains.

Existing commuters generally go for a particular train and will continue to do so, but they may have to get an earlier one due to the increased running time (I take the point about the Dart often running late, but it often runs on time as well - IE are essentially admitting their own incompetence if they are saying they can't get the trains to run on time. The timetable is already well padded - I assume they'll still give themselves 5 minutes leeway in the punctuality statistics too).

I can't see how daily commuters will benefit from this, casual users may benefit but ultimately they'll just be spending more time on the train rather than waiting for it.

bk

cgcsb wrote: »

:eek:

There isn't any room on the DART as it is.

Clearly there will be more DARTs and therefore more capacity with an increased frequency.

Also hopefully we will see a return to all DARTs being 8 carriages.

CaoimheSquee

Greystones losing out also - journey times to be longer.

Mahogany

bk wrote: »

The thing is the Luas has proven the consistency and frequency are more important then journey times.

Many Luas journeys can be taken faster by Dublin Bus then by Luas the majority of time, yet the Luas is jam packed as people prefer a service that always arrives at the same time and is frequent.

DARTs consistently every 10 minutes on weekdays will be a massive improvement in the service. I've often said that the DART doesn't really feel like a proper mass transit city service like Luas, due to not being consistent and frequent enough. Sometimes you end up having mad 40 minute waits!

A consistent 10 minutes DART frequency will be a major improvement to the service and is likely to attract a lot more people out of their cars and onto trains.

Yes it means some journey times will be a little longer, but it is a price worth paying.

The reality is these changes will likely see a massive increase in the number of people using these services.

My only criticism is that DART's every 20 minutes on Sundays is too long. It would be better if they followed the Saturday schedule of every 15 minutes.

Not if you live in Greystones.

thomasj

techdiver wrote:

Why can't they trial Sligo and Maynooth trains to Docklands instead of Connolly? It would avoid the cross traffic and would surely speed up those services whilst freeing the inbound lines for even more Darts?

You haven't seen docklands station have you?

bk

Mahogany wrote: »

Not if you live in Greystones.

Sure and that sucks, I'm not sure why all Darts can't operate from Greystones, I assume it has something to do with limited track capacity along the coast with the cliffs?

But, the vast majority of DART users don't live in Greystones and the vast majority will benefit from this improvement.

Sometimes you have to break a couple of eggs to make an omelette.

loyatemu

bk wrote: »

Sure and that sucks, I'm not sure why all Darts can't operate from Greystones, I assume it has something to do with limited track capacity along the coast with the cliffs?

But, the vast majority of DART users don't live in Greystones and the vast majority will benefit from this improvement.

difficult to improve services to Greystones due to the single line, they could potentially run some extra peak time services by stabling a train in the siding to the south of the station though.

I don't believe the "vast majority" of existing users will benefit from the new timetable - I'd be interested to hear from anyone currently commuting by Dart who thinks this new timetable will save them any time. In my case I'll have to get up half an hour earlier in the morning and I'll get home half an hour later - not an improvement to say the least.

techdiver

thomasj wrote: »

You haven't seen docklands station have you?

I work beside it and have used it quite a few times.

What is your point?

end of the road

bk wrote: »

Yes it means some journey times will be a little longer, but it is a price worth paying.

if we were talking about just dart i would agree. the problem is the long distance services from connolly which are slow all ready, and will now be slower again. i know us users of those long distance services out of connolly don't matter but still. its funny because back in 2002 the journey time between rosslare and dublin was a lot faster, and that was with locos and carriges. now we have railcars, to many stops within the dublin area and now we have to get around a 10 minute dart frequency. its a shame because i do in theory welcome the 10 minute dart frequency but its going to make us all have longer journeys by the looks of it

techdiver wrote: »

Why can't they trial Sligo and Maynooth trains to Docklands instead of Connolly? It would avoid the cross traffic and would surely speed up those services whilst freeing the inbound lines for even more Darts?

because the users of those services probably don't wish to travel to docklands. implement such a change and you make those services possibly unatractive.

bk wrote: »

Clearly there will be more DARTs and therefore more capacity with an increased frequency.

Also hopefully we will see a return to all DARTs being 8 carriages.

thing is, i'm not sure that will be the case or possible. going on the amount of current dart units, i'm not sure we can have all 8 carriges and a 10 minute frequency at the same time.

thomasj

The point is were talking about a 2 platform station that while it may work off peak, it wouldn't have capability to deal with maynooth, Longford, Sligo and m3 parkway during peak not to mention the queues waiting on the Sligo trains.

Not to mention it doesn't serve drumcondra station, one of the busiest stations on the maynooth line.

techdiver

thomasj wrote: »

The point is were talking about a 2 platform station that while it may work off peak, it wouldn't have capability to deal with maynooth, Longford, Sligo and m3 parkway during peak not to mention the queues waiting on the Sligo trains.

Not to mention it doesn't serve drumcondra station, one of the busiest stations on the maynooth line.

Apologies, I meant "some", not all services.

AlanG

techdiver wrote: »

Why can't they trial Sligo and Maynooth trains to Docklands instead of Connolly? It would avoid the cross traffic and would surely speed up those services whilst freeing the inbound lines for even more Darts?

Docklands station is not in a location that most people want to travel to. It is a stretch to call it city center and it doesn't link with other rail services.

monument

loyatemu wrote: »

I can't see how daily commuters will benefit from this....

Because there will be extra capacity for an increasing number of commuters and better frequently can mean shorter and more dependable trips from door to door.

devnull

cgcsb wrote: »

There isn't any room on the DART as it is.

There is plenty of room on some DARTS in evening peak with other ones sometimes it is impossible to get on. Evening Peak northbound timetable is a complete farce with it's awful schedule, bad split between the two branches, which in turn cause knock on delays to abysmal dwell time.

The current timetable is an aberration. My overcrowded usual 4 carriage Malahide branch train is normally at least 10 minutes late and like sardines with just a short 48 minute wait till the next one with all the huge number of Howth trains around it with many seats free and pretty much ontime.

bk wrote: »

Also hopefully we will see a return to all DARTs being 8 carriages.

Absolutely no chance, nowhere near enough carriages for that. They would struggle to do that on the current timetable.

loyatemu wrote: »

Existing commuters generally go for a particular train and will continue to do so,

And some commuters in evening peak have to get on a train going to a different line than the one they actually need to go to, because they do not want to risk not being able to board the train that goes to their stop and end up waiting 50 minutes for the next one.

IE are essentially admitting their own incompetence if they are saying they can't get the trains to run on time.

I can't see how daily commuters will benefit from this, casual users may benefit but ultimately they'll just be spending more time on the train rather than waiting for it.

People on the Malahide branch in the evening might actually be able to board a train going to their stop on a regular basis. At the moment there is a huge bias towards Howth in evening peak which is completely at odds with passenger numbers for the two sides. There is a risk of not being able to board the 17:58 train from Clontarf every single night, it's got so bad that some nights there are more people on the 17:51 train to Howth going to stations on the Malahide Branch than to the Howth branc.

Nothing more frustrating than seeing Howth Trains at 17:32, 17:43, 17:51, 18:13, 18:31 from Clontarf having seats free and being practically empty by Howth Junction with the 17:58 and 18:46 trains to Malahide sometimes being impossible to board or if you can board being like sardines with it not easing up at all until Clongriffin.

Commuters going to Howth after 5.30pm may actually have to sit next to someone rather than having two seats to themselves on one of their FIVE services in 59 minutes between 5.32 and 6.32 whilst everyone crams into and sometimes cannot board the TWO Malahide Trains between 5.30 and 7 which are both 4 carriages.

loyatemu wrote: »

I don't believe the "vast majority" of existing users will benefit from the new timetable - I'd be interested to hear from anyone currently commuting by Dart who thinks this new timetable will save them any time. In my case I'll have to get up half an hour earlier in the morning and I'll get home half an hour later - not an improvement to say the least.

See above.

MrMorooka

monument wrote: »

Because there will be extra capacity for an increasing number of DART commuters and better frequently can mean shorter and more dependable trips from door to door for people taking the DART.

FTFY.

Grandeeod

Two distinct things emanating from this thread.

1. Dire planning of residential housing in the GDA.

2. The compromising of railway infrastructure with commercial development.

n97 mini

AlanG wrote: »

Docklands station is not in a location that most people want to travel to. It is a stretch to call it city center and it doesn't link with other rail services.

Eh a bit like Heuston. As someone who lives on the Maynooth line I would not object to an increase in services even if it meant all the extra services terminated in Docklands. I think it's criminal the station is unused off peak when it's within walking distance of the convention centre etc.

I think other bottle necks on the system could be avoided too... Is it necessary for every train from Malahide to go to Bray when the train shed in Connolly has 4 very nice platforms?

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Is it necessary for every train from Malahide to go to Bray when the train shed in Connolly has 4 very nice platforms?

only platform 4 is electrified as far as i know. all dart capacity is usually required beyond connolly as well so i'm not sure terminating darts at connolly would be the best idea. maybe terminating more commuters at connolly platforms 1 to 4 where possible might be more doable and would be a better idea?

munchkin_utd

techdiver wrote: »

Why can't they trial Sligo and Maynooth trains to Docklands instead of Connolly? It would avoid the cross traffic and would surely speed up those services whilst freeing the inbound lines for even more Darts?

+1

its a 5min walk from docklands station to the luas and its a 10min walk to Grandcanal dock and Facebook, and marginally longer to Google HQ.

Its not as isolated as some would think.

room_149

techdiver wrote: »

The only hope for Ireland is that employers finally embrace working from home, so that no one needs to travel into the city any more. It seems the only way it is ever going to work in this country.

It's so frustrating that journey times only increase and there is no improvement in sight. A journey of 80m takes 1 hr and 30 minutes in 2015 on a train!

Even worse when you consider Mullingar to Connolly Station is 50miles!
The Train to Connolly took anywhere between 1hr:10mins to 1hr:30mins when I had to use that service a few years back.
Gave up on it after a few weeks and started driving to Maynooth or Louisa Bridge instead in the mornings. Parked the car and got the arrow into Drumcondra. Total commuting time took no more than an hour each way by doing so, 45 to 50mins infact
My heart goes out to the hundreds who still use that commuter train from Mullingar on a daily basis. It's ridiculously slow for a journey of that distance.

thomasj

So Irish rail were saying on twitter this morning that docklands is closed due to low rail adhesion and that m3 trains will use Connolly.

Also there seems to be one or two m3 trains missing going by the same reports on twitter.

Imagine the chaos that would have ensued if there were maynooth and Sligo trains running to docklands and they had to be diverted to Connolly this morning because of this.

And there's no hiding the fact this station is closed a little too often

techdiver

room_149 wrote: »

Even worse when you consider Mullingar to Connolly Station is 50miles!
The Train to Connolly took anywhere between 1hr:10mins to 1hr:30mins when I had to use that service a few years back.
Gave up on it after a few weeks and started driving to Maynooth or Louisa Bridge instead in the mornings. Parked the car and got the arrow into Drumcondra. Total commuting time took no more than an hour each way by doing so, 45 to 50mins infact
My heart goes out to the hundreds who still use that commuter train from Mullingar on a daily basis. It's ridiculously slow for a journey of that distance.

Sorry I meant 80km, so 50 miles yes.

loyatemu

monument wrote: »

Because there will be extra capacity for an increasing number of commuters and better frequently can mean shorter and more dependable trips from door to door.

Extra capacity... they're not buying any extra trains, are there trains lying around idle during rush hour now? If not then all they're doing is spreading the capacity out.

shorter trips... I asked previously for a existing commuter to give me a practical example of how the new timetable will shorten their commute. An example has been given for the Malahide line, but it's not the 10-minute frequency that's improving things there. They could reallocate trains within the existing timetable to improve service to Malahide.

LXFlyer

loyatemu wrote: »

Extra capacity... they're not buying any extra trains, are there trains lying around idle during rush hour now? If not then all they're doing is spreading the capacity out.

shorter trips... I asked previously for a existing commuter to give me a practical example of how the new timetable will shorten their commute. An example has been given for the Malahide line, but it's not the 10-minute frequency that's improving things there. They could reallocate trains within the existing timetable to improve service to Malahide.

The full DART fleet is not in operation at present. The NTA are providing additional funding to press sets back into service.


Malahide is now getting a fixed 20 minute DART service all day - the previous timetable provided a 30 minute service but with commuter trains making additional stops which in turn meant more people using northern line trains than necessary. These trains will now not stop until Malahide.


Clearly the new timetable is not faster - but it is hopefully more robust, and the DART timetable in particular is probably a more accurate reflection of reality in terms of running speeds.

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

Malahide is now getting a fixed 20 minute DART service all day - the previous timetable provided a 30 minute service but with commuter trains making additional stops which in turn meant more people using northern line trains than necessary. These trains will now not stop until Malahide.

If only the Malahide branch did have a fixed 30 minute timetable during peak! That is my main gripe, it doesn't which directly contributes to the evening crush!

I honestly believe if they stick with these principles with a proper balance of 3 trains an hour to Howth and 3 trains an hour to Malahide much of my current gripes with gross overcrowding on the Malahide branch in the evening with huge amounts spare capacity on the Howth branch will be resolved.

The Malahide branch overcrowding in the evening is due to a combination of bad balance between Howth and Malahide which isn't reflective of demand, a 48 minute timetable gap between services and 4 car trains.

They had to do something about 5 Howth DARTs in an hour being lightly loaded whilst 2 Malahide DARTs in 90 minutes were leaving some people not being able to board and waiting 48 minutes for the next one, so I'm glad it is finally being sorted.

bk

loyatemu wrote: »

Extra capacity... they're not buying any extra trains, are there trains lying around idle during rush hour now? If not then all they're doing is spreading the capacity out.

As has been said above, there are absolutely are DART's lying idle at the moment. They are planning on pressing them into service. So yes, there will be lots of extra capacity:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/standing-room-only-irish-rail-and-dart-carriages-out-of-service-as-passenger-numbers-return-to-boomtime-levels-31030805.html

Also even if there isn't enough DARTs carriages for full 8 carriages every 10 minutes, there will be now nothing stopping them buying extra new carriages if the demand is there.

What was holding them back all along, was signalling capacity. It didn't make sense to buy more DART carriages then they could actually use. But now with the extra signalling capacity they can increase frequency and if the demand is there, it makes sense to max it out with more carriages.

After all Irish Rails biggest expense is wages, they will need extra drivers for this increased frequency, adding a few extra carriages is a small incremental cost if the demand is there.

With Irish Rail passengers back to celtic tiger levels, Dublin cities population expected to explode over the next few years, with the government finding they have an extra 3 billion in taxes to play with and with Irish Rail now having the track capacity, I fully expect we will find Irish Rail putting in an order for a bunch of new DART carriages next year.

Given that they have invested €120 million in this resignalling project, I seriously doubt they aren't gonig to spend a few million more on some extra DART carriages now that they have the track capacity!

I fully expect the government to rollout a package of Phoenix Park tunnel project + 10 minute DARTs + extra dart carriages as a fairly cheap alternative to Dart Underground next year ahead of the election.

And rightfully so! Before spending billions on new infrastructure, we should be maxing out the capability of existing infrastructure at a fraction of the cost first.

Having said that, given how good the economy is doing, I hope they will bring forward Metro North now and bring Dart Underground back on the table.

LXFlyer

To be fair - there is a downside to this expansion.

Anyone travelling on commuter services and the Enterprise may suffer some additional journey times, and the DART will take longer too.

However, as I said above the additional running time on the DART should mean that the timetable becomes more robust and less trains running late.

But what this expansion flags to me is that the infrastructure north of Connolly badly needs investment - four tracking for some of the line between Connolly and Clongriffin is going to have to come onto the political agenda sooner rather than later, as both the Enterprise and Northern line services may become less competitive from a time perspective versus other options.

This timetable does not need the re-signalling to be completed - that won't happen until later next year.

But this and the PPT services should not be seen in any way as an alternative to DART Underground - that project remains critical for this city.

Losty Dublin

lxflyer wrote: »

But what this expansion flags to me is that the infrastructure north of Connolly badly needs investment - four tracking for some of the line between Connolly and Clongriffin is going to have to come onto the political agenda sooner rather than later, as both the Enterprise and Northern line services may become less competitive from a time perspective versus other options.
.

CIE have been looking for this for years now; to date no government have addressed it beyond lip service.

cgcsb

Losty Dublin wrote: »

CIE have been looking for this for years now; to date no government have addressed it beyond lip service.

The government built social housing and permitted private housing to be built right beside the line, ensuring it can't be widened.

StudentDad

I take my hat off to anyone who has to commute to Dublin on a daily basis. I had to endure morning and evening traffic over a couple of days last year. Yikes. I think I'd go mad having to endure that every day.

The sooner there is a decent transport system that means the car can sit in the drive, the better.

SD

Infini

cgcsb wrote: »

The government built social housing and permitted private housing to be built right beside the line, ensuring it can't be widened.

They can always buy them out with a CPO if needs be. Besides the "social housing" isnt doing the North of the dart line any favours expecially since theres a ton of antisocial behavior and drug problems in the area around the junction.

devnull

Clongriffin already has three platforms and there should be room to have another one on the Baldoyle side without a huge problem because that is the side without houses next to Platform 1 and originally was going to be a fourth platform but no tracks or overhead lines were laid.

Platform 3 is not used for services right now, and that is on the side with houses and is often used as a place to house trains during disruption. It has exactly the same facilities as Platform 1 to the City and Platform 2 to Malahide.

The other side of Platform 1 is even has shelters on it, signs and "KEEP BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE" written on it like a normal platform, the only thing it is missing is track and overhead lines and signals. The physical platform is already built, it just has a fence instead of track.

Building track will be a little harder between Howth Junction and Clongriffin, but Clongriffin certainly has the layout and infrastructure to allow four platforms and thus a chance of overtaking if they want to add a fourth.

tabbey

Undoubtedly Malahide and Howth each merit a twenty minute frequency. The problem is that without four tracking, a proper service cannot be provided to both the DART and longer distance services.
Ideally, route widening should have been undertaken before electrification started in 1981.Unfortunately, governments, both political and civil service, have ignored this necessity for the last forty years.

During the celtic bubble era, the situation got even worse, housing and commercial buildings were erected immediately next to the rail line at Laytown, Donabate, Malahide, Portmarnock, Howth Junction, Connolly platform seven, Tara Street, Pearse etc. Some major developments were especially inappropriate : Trinity Science Gallery, on the Tara Street side of Pearse, and the Biomedical block, also belonging to Trinity, the Ulster Bank block at Tara Street, and the office beside platform seven at Connolly.
At the same time Siding capacity was butchered on the instructions of a minister from the midlands, whose constituents now commute on trains which have to continue to Bray for turnaround, then run empty to Drogheda for servicing, before returning for the evening peak, complete madness.

Until such time as the public make an election issue of this disgraceful farce, government will continue to ignore it, and commuter services will get slower and slower.

thomasj

It has me wondering, with plans for electrification to Balbriggan sooner than later, is there plans for howth shuttle sooner rather than later?

LXFlyer

tabbey wrote: »

Undoubtedly Malahide and Howth each merit a twenty minute frequency. The problem is that without four tracking, a proper service cannot be provided to both the DART and longer distance services.
Ideally, route widening should have been undertaken before electrification started in 1981.Unfortunately, governments, both political and civil service, have ignored this necessity for the last forty years.

During the celtic bubble era, the situation got even worse, housing and commercial buildings were erected immediately next to the rail line at Laytown, Donabate, Malahide, Portmarnock, Howth Junction, Connolly platform seven, Tara Street, Pearse etc. Some major developments were especially inappropriate : Trinity Science Gallery, on the Tara Street side of Pearse, and the Biomedical block, also belonging to Trinity, the Ulster Bank block at Tara Street, and the office beside platform seven at Connolly.
At the same time Siding capacity was butchered on the instructions of a minister from the midlands, whose constituents now commute on trains which have to continue to Bray for turnaround, then run empty to Drogheda for servicing, before returning for the evening peak, complete madness.

Until such time as the public make an election issue of this disgraceful farce, government will continue to ignore it, and commuter services will get slower and slower.

You don't need four tracking all the way along the northern line, just sufficient to allow an express (or perhaps two) overtake a DART. Undoubtedly it will not be cheap, but CPOs will have to happen along some of the line between Connolly and Howth Junction sufficient to allow such overtaking happen.

I don't see the building issue between Connolly and Pearse - the re-signalling should solve capacity issues over the loop bridge.

Also, the Sligo or Longford trains don't go to Bray to turn around - I'm not sure where you're getting that impression. They turn at Connolly and Pearse respectively. The only trains which go to Bray are the four services off the Northern Line and one from Maynooth.

There have been sidings beyond Pearse removed temporarily, while the city centre resignalling project is ongoing, but those are (I believe) going to be reinstated, along with the addition of the turnback platform at Grand Canal Dock.

Now, what I do think was a serious error, was closing the ICR servicing depot at Connolly - having to send the Sligo sets out to Drogheda for servicing and back again each day is daft and does place restrictions on fleet utilisation.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

Clongriffin already has three platforms and there should be room to have another one on the Baldoyle side without a huge problem because that is the side without houses next to Platform 1 and originally was going to be a fourth platform but no tracks or overhead lines were laid.

Platform 3 is not used for services right now, and that is on the side with houses and is often used as a place to house trains during disruption. It has exactly the same facilities as Platform 1 to the City and Platform 2 to Malahide.

The other side of Platform 1 is even has shelters on it, signs and "KEEP BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE" written on it like a normal platform, the only thing it is missing is track and overhead lines and signals. The physical platform is already built, it just has a fence instead of track.

Building track will be a little harder between Howth Junction and Clongriffin, but Clongriffin certainly has the layout and infrastructure to allow four platforms and thus a chance of overtaking if they want to add a fourth.

The point I was making was that the fourth platform should have been commissioned when the station was being built along with the other one.


The northbound loop is fully operational and provides an overtaking option if needed, but there is no southbound option.

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

The point I was making was that the fourth platform should have been commissioned when the station was being built along with the other one.

Agreed, it seems daft that they actually put everything on the physical platforms for a fourth platform, including writing "KEEP BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE" only to put a fence up in front of it rather than actually having a track there.

If they ever do open it, they'll have to bump all the platform numbers up by 1 as well with Platform 1 becoming 2, 2, become 3 and 3 becoming 4. Obviously when it was built was at a time of very limited funds, but now it should be put into operational.

The northbound loop is fully operational and provides an overtaking option if needed, but there is no southbound option.

Yes - Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I was just saying that it is not used for regular services, all trains operate via Platform 1 and Platform 2 only unless there is disruption when sometimes trains are stabled at Platform 3.

Platform 3 even has a full PIS display there, funnily enough it was the only platform to bet a brand new one on the station opening with the rest using older ones that are much harder to read in sunlight and the one that never displays anything appart from the time is nice and bright!

Rashers72

Most evenings Northern Suburban trains crawl behind late running DARTs to Malahide, so it would be great to see this this siding getting used. The added complication is the siding in Malahide is south of the station, so when the DART finally arrives onto the platform at Malahide, the DART driver needs to get out and go to the other end and drive the DART into that siding to allow the suburban train to pass. With all the necessary signal changes etc. I am reminded of this every evening when I am on my suburban train south of Malahide waiting for all this to happen. Very frustrating! Rant over!

devnull

Rashers72 wrote: »

Most evenings Northern Suburban trains crawl behind late running DARTs to Malahide, so it would be great to see this this siding getting used.

The reason that the Malahide trains run late in rush hour is due to their abysmal dwell times due to severe overcrowding, with the much more regular Howth's that are having plenty of space more or less running to time.

Carawaystick

I think they really missed a trick when the station platform lengthening was going on not to build the infrastructure to allow 4 tracking ( or even 3-tracking) on the northside. The ramps are in the way of any widening.