Why do you drink

from_atozinc

A question popped in to my mind this evening and I am not sure of the answer.

Do alcoholics drink because :

a ) they just love the taste of the stuff

Or

b ) when they drink it takes them away from all the normal crap realities of real life ?

The Bishop Basher

from_atozinc wrote: »

A question popped in to my mind this evening and I am not sure of the answer.

Do alcoholics drink because :

a ) they just love the taste of the stuff

Or

b ) when they drink it takes them away from all the normal crap realities of real life ?

Everyone drinks for reason b. Not just alcoholics.

Hemerodrome

Swanner wrote: »

Everyone drinks for reason b. Not just alcoholics.

Speak for yourself.

People drink for a variety of reasons OP and the motivations of an alcoholic can't be summed up in one glib line, they're suffering a compulsion which takes huge resources to overcome, not just making a conscious decision to kick back with a few more than most people.

The Bishop Basher

Hemerodrome wrote: »

Speak for yourself.

People drink for a variety of reasons OP and the motivations of an alcoholic can't be summed up in one glib line, they're suffering a compulsion which takes huge resources to overcome, not just making a conscious decision to kick back with a few more than most people.

So are you saying that people who drink alcohol aren't drinking the alcohol for the effects of that alcohol ?

Why are they drinking alcohol then ?

intheclouds

Swanner wrote: »

Everyone drinks for reason b. Not just alcoholics.

This is nonsense!

I enjoy a sloe gin and tonic on a Sunday before dinner. I love the taste of sloe gin. I can assure you that one gin and tonic is not taking me anywhere away from the normal crap realities of life!

Hemerodrome

Swanner wrote: »

So are you saying that people who drink alcohol aren't drinking the alcohol for the effects of that alcohol ?

Why are they drinking alcohol then ?

I clearly didn't say any such thing. I said people drink for a variety of reasons. I drink wine because I love the care I take over choosing the one that I want. Occasionally I drink to be sociable, sometimes after a long day of exercise or manual labour nothing hits your tongue like a beer, or various other reasons which have nothing to do with altering how I feel about the rest of my life, pretty much the same as the majority of people. I very occasionally look for the intoxicating effect of alcohol, but again, I'm not escaping anything.

The Bishop Basher

intheclouds wrote: »

This is nonsense!

I enjoy a sloe gin and tonic on a Sunday before dinner. I love the taste of sloe gin. I can assure you that one gin and tonic is not taking me anywhere away from the normal crap realities of life!

Ok so you drink 1 Gin on a Sunday because you like the taste. Fair enough....

Would you drive or go to work after the gin. And if not why not ?

Hemerodrome

Swanner wrote: »

Ok so you drink 1 Gin on a Sunday because you like the taste. Fair enough....

Would you drive or go to work after the gin. And if not why not ?

Was has this got to do with the OP's question? I looks like you're pursuing an agenda and looking for confirmation of your bias.

intheclouds

Swanner wrote: »

Ok so you drink 1 Gin on a Sunday because you like the taste. Fair enough....

Would you drive or go to work after the gin. And if not why not ?

Not immediately after it. After dinner and tea/coffee - otherwise I would risk being over the limit.

If I have 1 gin and tonic in a restaurant and then a meal I do usually drive after it - but I would only drive after consuming the meal and tea/coffee etc - I would not drive if it was literally immediately after it (again in case I was over the limit).

Would I go to work after it? I wouldnt drink if I was working later - not that I wouldnt be capable after 1 drink but it would be unprofessional to be in work after consuming alcohol imo. In saying that I have had 1 drink at a work lunch and gone back to the office afterwards but that was as part of a department celebration and we all had 1 drink.

However, I have often had my one drink at home then done some work later on that evening at my desk at home - so work can happen alright but I wouldnt tend bother with a drink if I had to go into the office afterwards.

Sometimes we have small celebrations in work and a bottle of champagne is produced - I usually say no, I dont really like the taste of champagne.

Hemerodrome

Swanner wrote: »

Ok so you drink 1 Gin on a Sunday because you like the taste. Fair enough....

Would you drive or go to work after the gin. And if not why not ?

Was has this got to do with the OP's question? I looks like you're pursuing an agenda and looking for confirmation of your bias.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

Some drink to remember, some drink to forget...

The Bishop Basher

The point i'm trying to make, is that we all do things to escape our every day lives.

Some go on holiday, some go to gigs, some go shopping, some play golf, some meditate and for some reason, the majority of us in this country like to medicate.

Of course there are exceptions. Some do all, some do none.

Point is though, when we voluntarily and willingly ingest a psychoactive substance in the full knowledge that it will shut down areas of our brain, help us relax, reduce our inhibitions and allow us to act in ways we wouldn't normally act, to whatever degree that might be, we are in fact escaping from our own reality for a time.

I'm not judging that action. I'm not saying it's wrong or it's right. That can only be down to the individual making the choice to decide for themselves.

What I am saying is that I think we should at least be honest about it, if only to ourselves, that when we smoke a joint, snort a line, or take a drink, we're doing so in order to escape our reality for a little while.

intheclouds

Swanner wrote: »

What I am saying is that I think we should at least be honest about it, if only to ourselves, that when we smoke a joint, snort a line, or take a drink, we're doing so in order to escape our reality for a little while.

Maybe thats why you drink but I like my reality. Having a drink is actually part of that reality. Why would I want to escape that?

Dont judge everyone on why you yourself drink or take drugs.

I drink for lots of different reasons, because I like the taste (Im something of a connoisseur for gin, Ive tried dozens of different brands), but I think Ive only ever been actually drunk from drinking gin twice in 10 years! Or for a bit of sociability, meet some friends, have a drink. Or because its a nice aperitif.

I dont think I have been drunk more than 3 or 4 times in 2015 at all. Maybe only twice now that I think about it. And both of those occasions were more accidental than anything so I certainly wasnt looking to escape anything!

When I was younger I drank to lose inhibitions, not unusual to go out with the intention of getting blotto - not so much to escape, but to have "the craic" - you grow out of that though, and the past 15 years Ive really only had a couple of drinks at a time 99% of the time with the very odd occasion where Id have more.

Amazingfun

from_atozinc wrote: »

A question popped in to my mind this evening and I am not sure of the answer.

Do alcoholics drink because :

a ) they just love the taste of the stuff

Or

b ) when they drink it takes them away from all the normal crap realities of real life ?

AA's answer is in part formed by the work of Dr. Silkworth:

Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect
produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they
admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true
from the false.
To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal
one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can
again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at
once by taking a few drinks—drinks which they see others taking
with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as
so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass
through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful,
with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and
over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change
there is very little hope of his recovery.

On the other hand—and strange as this may seem to those who
do not understand—once a psychic change has occurred, the very
same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he
despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able
to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being
that required to follow a few simple rules.

Read the whole thing here:

http://www.silkworth.net/gsowatch/litbook.pdf

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

intheclouds wrote: »

...I wouldnt tend bother with a drink if I had to go into the office afterwards

why not?

intheclouds

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

why not?

I already said above, bit unprofessional no? Alcohol not really appropriate for office environment with the exception of specific celebrations where other staff are also having a drink.

Its not really the culture here in my experience.

The Bishop Basher

intheclouds wrote: »

Maybe thats why you drink but I like my reality. Having a drink is actually part of that reality. Why would I want to escape that?

Dont judge everyone on why you yourself drink or take drugs.

I don't drink or take drugs. Just wanted to clarify that.

intheclouds wrote: »

I drink for lots of different reasons, because I like the taste (Im something of a connoisseur for gin, Ive tried dozens of different brands), but I think Ive only ever been actually drunk from drinking gin twice in 10 years! Or for a bit of sociability, meet some friends, have a drink. Or because its a nice aperitif.

I dont think I have been drunk more than 3 or 4 times in 2015 at all. Maybe only twice now that I think about it. And both of those occasions were more accidental than anything so I certainly wasnt looking to escape anything!

When I was younger I drank to lose inhibitions, not unusual to go out with the intention of getting blotto - not so much to escape, but to have "the craic" - you grow out of that though, and the past 15 years Ive really only had a couple of drinks at a time 99% of the time with the very odd occasion where Id have more.

I was a fellow gin connoisseur so I do honestly understand your enjoyment of it

You have your reasons for enjoying a drink and you don't have to justify it to anyone. As i said, i'm not judging the action of drinking at all :-)

I know lot's of people drink for lot's of different reasons. A lot of it is down to marketing but mostly I would say because it's great craic. (Or at least, it can be at the time).

But that's just it. The reason it's great craic is because of the element of escape. We get to forget about our worries for a few hours. Something alcohol is incredibly effective at doing.

Anyway, it's only my opinion and is as flawed and biased as any other opinion. We're all just trying to get by whatever way we can and enjoy the experience. How we choose to do that is up to us and us alone..

eviltimeban

I recently cut down the amount I drink at home. I don't go to the pub so would do most of the drinking in the evenings (wine with dinner, beer or whiskey afterwards). And I found most of the time the reason I drank was habit. And it's a hard habit to break, as the song goes.

Nowadays I'm on a new regime where I go running, swimming, and I count every calorie I consume (care of the MyFitnessPal app) as I want to lose weight. I was amazed at the amount of calories I was consuming through alcohol when I added them up. Now, I stay within the calorie limit and can still enjoy my glass of red wine (not every night though) and if I want a mid-week beer, I go for non-alcoholic. As a result, I've lost 9lbs in about 25 days.

I'll still treat myself to a nice red ale or porter at the weekend, and I'll have it for the simple reason that I like the taste. It won't get me drunk (I'm 6'5" so it takes a far bit of booze to get me drunk) and in lot of cases nowadays I can do without. Once I've hit my calorie limit for the day, I won't have any more - and I've found I don't need anymore. I'm satisfied and as a result I'm healthier.

EDIT: I don't see it as an escape from reality. Like another poster said, it is part of my reality. But if I lie back and close my eyes with music on headphones, or I get stuck into a DVD boxset, is that escaping as well? Or is it part of the enjoyment of life?

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

You don't have to get drunk to enjoy the effects of alcohol, even one or two drinks can help you relax/ wind down.

LaGlisse

Some alcoholics/ people who give up drink feel the need to brand everyone who still drinks as alcoholics in training etc. it's more a reflection on themselves than anyone else. I don't drink anymore myself but this does my head in. The majority of people who drink enjoy it and it is beneficial to them

intheclouds

Swanner wrote: »

You have your reasons for enjoying a drink and you don't have to justify it to anyone. As i said, i'm not judging the action of drinking at all :-)

This actually comes across as though you are trying to put me on the defensive. I am not trying to justify why I enjoy a drink - its not something that I feel the need to justify.

I am trying to explain my reasons to you because I disagree with your assertion that it is only about escapism. I dont know why you see that as me trying to justify it?

I will rephrase my earlier comment to you then, dont judge everyone on why YOU think people enjoy drink or drugs, because its quite possible that you are wrong and that people enjoy it for many reasons other than escapism.

What do you define as escapism? I wouldnt really see a holiday as escapism actually, again, its part of my reality to have the odd holiday so I enjoy it for what it is, a temporary rest and excuse to eat out every night!

When you say that drink means we get to forget about our worries, maybe that is true for some people but I genuinely dont have any worries that drink would make me forget. Actually I am struggling to think of anything I am worried about right now - maybe that the canteen will have a nice sandwich for my lunch but thats the height of it!

Bonniedog

There are people who can drink and control their drinking. And there are people like me who cannot.

I started to drink as part of socializing and it also made me less introverted than I am normally. I could handle drinking a lot for a long time when I was younger and fitter, but got to stage where I need to stop.

That is my doing and my responsibility. I would never assume that anyone else is potentially heading for same problems I created for myself.

That is where I differ from AA as I don't buy into the notion that alcohol is an inherently demonic substance that can, and indeed they imply will, take over your life. Like anything else, it will if you let it, and that is down to an individual's own choice, own free will.

I would never blame anyone else, or any circumstances for how I ended up.

Amazingfun

LaGlisse wrote: »

Some alcoholics/ people who give up drink feel the need to brand everyone who still drinks as alcoholics in training etc. it's more a reflection on themselves than anyone else. I don't drink anymore myself but this does my head in. The majority of people who drink enjoy it and it is beneficial to them

It's a stage some go through when getting sober, was a bit like that with my pals and family when I first tried AA, lol, drove them all mad :pac:

Truth is, real alcoholics are a small % of the population overall.

The Bishop Basher

intheclouds wrote: »

This actually comes across as though you are trying to put me on the defensive. I am not trying to justify why I enjoy a drink - its not something that I feel the need to justify.

I wasn't suggesting that you were. Apologies if you took it that way. It wasn't meant in that vein at all.

intheclouds wrote: »

I am trying to explain my reasons to you because I disagree with your assertion that it is only about escapism. I dont know why you see that as me trying to justify it?

And I was just saying that we disagree and that's fine. I'm not looking to convince you otherwise.

Amazingfun

Bonniedog wrote: »

There are people who can drink and control their drinking. And there are people like me who cannot.

I started to drink as part of socializing and it also made me less introverted than I am normally. I could handle drinking a lot for a long time when I was younger and fitter, but got to stage where I need to stop.

That is my doing and my responsibility. I would never assume that anyone else is potentially heading for same problems I created for myself.

That is where I differ from AA as I don't buy into the notion that alcohol is an inherently demonic substance that can, and indeed they imply will, take over your life. Like anything else, it will if you let it, and that is down to an individual's own choice, own free will.

I would never blame anyone else, or any circumstances for how I ended up.

That is not at all what AA says. Why are you making things up?

LaGlisse

Amazingfun wrote: »

That is not at all what AA says. Why are you making things up?

It might not be what the literature says but it is the message plenty members will beat you over the head with

Amazingfun

LaGlisse wrote: »

It might not be what the literature says but it is the message plenty members will beat you over the head with

No it isn't. I've been a sober member of AA for just under 14 years, and some experience before that, and not one single person ever said anything like that to me or in any meeting I've attended.

However, if this is just an AA-bashing thread I'll leave yaz to it

The Bishop Basher

I was trying to share a view on this. I can see I haven't made it very well at all.

I'm really not a preachy reformed alcoholic I'm not even a reformed alcoholic..

But I can see why you might think that from my posts.

Clearly the brain is not fully engaged with the fingers....

Bonniedog

I have no intention of bashing AA, Amazing fun. I was merely giving my impression of what I believe their view of alcohol as a substance outside of someone's control is.

Its approach suits many people, but not others, but I would never denigrate what it does for those who it helps.

Amazingfun

Bonniedog wrote: »

I have no intention of bashing AA, Amazing fun. I was merely giving my impression of what I believe their view of alcohol as a substance outside of someone's control is.

Its approach suits many people, but not others, but I would never denigrate what it does for those who it helps.

Bonnie, you claim AA says alcohol is a "demonic substance" (it doesn't), and since it appears you have been to AA before and are just back 9 days sober from what sounds like a serious relapse, it might assist you to learn what it really does say

AA's step one is pretty simple in essence:

If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic.

The lack of control once drink is taken is what is referred to as the physical allergy, and was a theory given to us by a great man, Dr. Silkworth, the portion I linked to earlier in the thread. The phenomenon is encapsulated pretty well by the saying " I take the drink and the drink takes me".....

The inability to stay off it (when off it for a while and suppsedly wanting to stay sober) is what's called "the mental obsession", and you can learn more about that here:

http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt3.pdf

And further, becoming a recovered alcoholic means taking full responsibility for our behavior, and making of amends where we have caused harm as well. Nowhere is there an acceptance of "blaming others" or anything remotely like that.

So, not to be harsh with you, but you have already had a rough ride with drinking, and the consequences of not getting a clear picture of what the problem is could be deadly. All I hope for you is that you (and your daughter) is that you get well and find a happy life without constant returns to drink.

Anyways, good luck.

Ps: there is a good set of talks here from a guy that was a chronic relapser for years before getting sober for good, might be of interest:

Bonniedog

I did attend some meetings and impression was very much of people blaming external forces, and other people, for their drinking. Seemed to be quite a lot of relapsing going on as well!

Anyway, that aside, I had not fully committed myself to stopping at that time. I think I have now.

Amazingfun

Bonniedog wrote: »

I did attend some meetings and impression was very much of people blaming external forces, and other people, for their drinking. Seemed to be quite a lot of relapsing going on as well!

Anyway, that aside, I had not fully committed myself to stopping at that time. I think I have now.

There is always the possibility you heard what you wanted to hear, dismissed it, and then went back drinking, which is what happened, right? It's what many of us have done, myself included, believe me, my hearing seemed to improve by miles after another thrashing from the bottle, lol

Anyways:
I sincerely wish you luck/success with your current plan to stay off it.
But if you find yourself back at it again, despite having a long list of reasons as to why you shouldn't, despite perhaps not even really wanting to-- AA will still be here, for free and for fun It's not for everyone, but it is always the "last house on the block" for real drunks.

Take care.