!!!!!

TrustedApple

!!

Stheno

TrustedApple wrote: »

Hi guys i got a job offer there the other day and i never talked to them about my wages i got the contract there and i am not impressed with the wages at all and its a lot less then other people i know who work in the same kind of roles in IT. In the interview they never brought up wages or anything like that and i didnt because i am not rude.

I cant live on them wages due to the fact rent is gone nuts and i am still paying off my student loan and in the job i am in now i get a better wage for a less role.

Will i be wrong to ask for more money for the role ?.

You can ask but itmay make no difference. What's the job and salary if you don't mind me asking?

TrustedApple

Stheno wrote: »

You can ask but itmay make no difference. What's the job and salary if you don't mind me asking?

IT software engineer in a large multinash company.

9 euros a hour i am bit insulted at that wage its less then min wage . As i have no proper exp in the role i was expecting something near the 11 + euro range.

goldenhoarde

They may have chosen not to talk money in the interview but they no doubt gave you the chance for "Have you any questions?"

You really should have asked if you didn't know the salary prior. BTW its not rude to discuss salary at an interview.

They may be lowballing you as you didn't ask.

If you had asked and they said Salary is 20 you could have countered with "In my current role my salary exceeds that and as this role has more responsibilities I would be looking for a higher salary (in the range x to y?)"

Stheno

TrustedApple wrote: »

IT software engineer in a large multinash company.

9 euros a hour i am bit insulted at that wage its less then min wage . As i have no proper exp in the role i was expecting something near the 11 + euro range.

So that's 18.5k per year likele due to your having no experience. Is it directly with the company or through another company?

toadfly

You accepted a job without asking how much you would be paid? Thats ridiculous, fair enough not asking in the interview but when offered you should have asked.

Theres not much you can do at this stage, you can ask but they will think it crazy you didnt ask before this.

Minimum wage is €8.65, I imagine you will be increased to at least €9.15 after 1st January.

Stheno

TrustedApple wrote: »

They did give the chance to ask for any questions i never ask about wages in interviews as i find it a very rude question to ask.

Directly with the company the wage is coming from. I was looking online on glass door and the entry lv wages go a lot higher then what the offered me in ireland.

I have not singed the contact yet but i will speak to them monday as i have to met HR 1st thing.

Quite upset that i went to college for 4 years to get a skill and i get offered less that what i make now is a bit insulting.

What do you work at now?

mckar

If its a case of you can not live on it and you will need to move on anyway because of wages you have nothing to loose saying it to them.

Looks like they used it to their advantage aswel with the fact you didn't ask. The new minimum wage doesn't kick in till after the new year.

purpleisafruit

What kind of IT role is paying that little? I'm a graduate working for an MNC and earn over double that

purpleisafruit

TrustedApple wrote: »

Well other friends of mine work in the same kind of roles in entry lv in IT. Its a entry lv role and its a grad role with a 6 month contact. I am working in hospitality at the moment. The job is a IT engineer.

Thats the plan with working about the wages i don't know will it be best to speak to them in person or over the phone ?.

A grad role in IT would want to be at least 25k really. I know from my own classmates, most have started working on over 30k. This is mostly in Cork. Those in Dublin are paid more

Stheno

TrustedApple wrote: »

Well other friends of mine work in the same kind of roles in entry lv in IT. Its a entry lv role and its a grad role with a 6 month contact. I am working in hospitality at the moment. The job is a IT engineer.

Thats the plan with working about the wages i don't know will it be best to speak to them in person or over the phone ?.

Speak to them in person. Don't be expecting them to increase the offer though. Are There any benefits offered?

lawred2

TrustedApple wrote: »

Hi guys i got a job offer there the other day and i never talked to them about my wages i got the contract there and i am not impressed with the wages at all and its a lot less then other people i know who work in the same kind of roles in IT. In the interview they never brought up wages or anything like that and i didnt because i am not rude.

I cant live on them wages due to the fact rent is gone nuts and i am still paying off my student loan and in the job i am in now i get a better wage for a less role.

Will i be wrong to ask for more money for the role ?.

You'll need to either wise up or toughen up

Asking about your terms and conditions is not rude. It's expected. Not doing so sets you up from being taken advantage of. It can come across as something that's not on your priority list.

Job interviews are often your best chance to secure a significant salary bump as salary reviews mid employments can be much harder to justify.

Just politely respond that this is below your expectations and market rates for that position.. negotiation will be expected.

lawred2

TrustedApple wrote: »

They did give the chance to ask for any questions i never ask about wages in interviews as i find it a very rude question to ask.

Directly with the company the wage is coming from. I was looking online on glass door and the entry lv wages go a lot higher then what the offered me in ireland.

I have not singed the contact yet but i will speak to them monday as i have to met HR 1st thing.

Quite upset that i went to college for 4 years to get a skill and i get offered less that what i make now is a bit insulting.

jesus wept

GoodBridge

TrustedApple wrote: »

In the interview they never brought up wages or anything like that and i didnt because i am not rude.

No offence intended but this was a little bit naive.

You talking about the money they'll give you is only as rude as them talking about the work they want you to do, i.e. it's not.

You're there to discuss a) what you can do for them and b) what they can do for you. If you skip the second part, you're basically volunteering.

circadian

If you want a career then you have to negotiate salary. It is not rude to talk money and you'll get fleeced if you don't take the initiative.

I started in I.T 2 years ago. I'm earning twice what I started on not to mention additional benefits and bonuses thrown in and now I have 2 work from home days a week.

Provided you don't over value your services, you'll likely get hired. Any company not willing to not negotiate will possibly be looking to cut costs elsewhere and should be approached with caution.

If I were you I'd consider if this job will provide you with the experience you need. Will it open doors? Are there other opportunities around?

You might have to bite the bullet, adjust your living arrangements, take the job if it's got more to offer than money and learn from this experience.

Geuze

TrustedApple wrote: »

IT software engineer in a large multinash company.

9 euros a hour i am bit insulted at that wage its less then min wage . As i have no proper exp in the role i was expecting something near the 11 + euro range.

The media keep saying that MNCs are finding it hard to hire software engineers.

I find it very difficult to reconcile that with wages of 18,252 pa.

How can an employer get away with 18k, especially with Dublin rents?

The shortage seems to be made up by the media.

Geuze

I would hope that graduates with level 8 degrees in IT and programming are starting on 24k minimum.......

mightyreds

34/35k seems to be the rate this year.for graduate positions

lawred2

Geuze wrote: »

The media keep saying that MNCs are finding it hard to hire software engineers.

I find it very difficult to reconcile that with wages of 18,252 pa.

How can an employer get away with 18k, especially with Dublin rents?

The shortage seems to be made up by the media.

one company chancing their arm with a below market offer for a candidate who made no mention of salary in an interview is evidence for a meeja hoax..

I take it you don't work in IT

Saipanne

TrustedApple wrote: »

They did give the chance to ask for any questions i never ask about wages in interviews as i find it a very rude question to ask.

Here's my view on this topic. Know your worth and behave like you know what you're worth.

If you don't do this, you're not worth it.

Works for me.

BGozIE

circadian wrote: »

If you want a career then you have to negotiate salary. It is not rude to talk money and you'll get fleeced if you don't take the initiative.

I started in I.T 2 years ago. I'm earning twice what I started on not to mention additional benefits and bonuses thrown in and now I have 2 work from home days a week.

Provided you don't over value your services, you'll likely get hired. Any company not willing to not negotiate will possibly be looking to cut costs elsewhere and should be approached with caution.

If I were you I'd consider if this job will provide you with the experience you need. Will it open doors? Are there other opportunities around?

You might have to bite the bullet, adjust your living arrangements, take the job if it's got more to offer than money and learn from this experience.

Sound advice there.

From my own point of view, I find it hard to quantify how you are getting paid so little? I got paid more per hour in a part time job while in college (in retail)

What exactly are you doing? If you are writing code for that money I am a tad suprised. Although as quoted above, if you need this experience and havent had much luck with employment since garduating maybe its not so bad?

KERSPLAT!

When exactly were you going to ask them about the salary!?

purpleisafruit

TrustedApple wrote: »

Like the company at the moment is moving into a new flag ship office in cork that is nearly twice the size of what they have at the moment and thats why i am wondering about the low ball they have the money for that ?. But not the wage.

I had my sister look over the contact there notting about bank holidays, over time anything like that in it so i need to speak to them about that as well.

I know i might have to bite the bullet but when rent is 400 euro + for a basic room a month you understand that wages play a big part.

If it's the company I'm thinking it is, it's a massively low offer for them. They're generally paying around 30k for those roles.

lawred2

Saipanne wrote: »

Here's my view on this topic. Know your worth and behave like you know what you're worth.

If you don't do this, you're not worth it.

Works for me.

exactly

We've quite frequently hired a candidate with a higher wage expectation than rival candidates... they value their own work and if they can back that valuation up in the interview; they are a far more impressive candidate than the timid one who presents themselves available at a below market rate.

Hiring is a pain. And most companies do not like churn. Hiring the wrong candidates is a sure fire way of creating staff churn.

FortySeven

That is ridiculous for any job. Never mind IT with a degree. OP. World is not fair, you need to fight your own corner, they saw you coming a mile away.
Tell them to swing and find yourself a proper job. I was making more than that behind a bar in 2009. In Galway. Laughable.

Upstream

TrustedApple wrote: »

As the reason i didn't ask for wages is that before in a interview i asked how much i wonted for the role and they sent me a rejecting because of me asking for to much money the next day.

Thats the plan as i was looking at market rates other then my friends for the role and i know to expact to 25k for the role as a grad. I would have taking anything over 20K a year to be fair.

There is no benefits just that i might be needed to work in there other 3 offices around Ireland from time to time.

Who was the company that rejected you for asking about wages?

How much did you ask for then? 50k + benefits
Only joking, it sounds like you were just looking for the around the market average. Maybe they had the role already filled and were looking for an excuse to decline you. But otherwise that's a pretty harsh attitude for them to take - potential employee wanting a reasonable salary :eek:, no way can we have that :mad:
At least it's a buyers market at the moment, you should be able to to get better elsewhere if you can't negotiate up a little. Experience counts for a lot though, so bear that in mind too.

Mrs OBumble

OP, I smell a rat here. You say you have a degree - what exactly is it, and where from?

Frankly, I'm not believing that you got offered only E9/hour, if it really is a software engineering role, and you have a real degree in it.

Could you have misunderstood? I'm trying not too be mean here, but the English in your posts is a little "informal", which makes me wonder if there's something else going on.

Also, fyi, it is quite normal for candidates to negotiate on salary: the employer makes an offer, you assess it and ask for more, they consider and offer somehwere in between, you accept and everyone is happy.

I would go so far as to say that if i offered a job to someone and they didn't try to negotiate salary, then I either offered too much or chose the wrong person.

Stheno

TrustedApple wrote: »

I know thats the only problem i find in IT is that i don't really have the exp other then 4 months on a college placement

What is the exact role you have been offered? Is it support, or coding? Given that you may have to move offices it sounds like support?

BGozIE

Dont think people need to jump on the OP's back here.

OP I think the best to thing to do is ask for clarification on your salary and if your not happy, dont take the job. Hopefully you have gotten the advice you were looking for.

Its hard for people to best advise you, as your story is slighlty vague and saying your a software engineer means a few things to a few people.

Jonti

You are off your head if you accept and entry job in IT at €9 per hour! You didn't go to college for four years to get paid minimum wage.
Non qualified people I know earn more than that!
Get on the phone to HR and tell them you want at least €20 per hour to start with.
People and companies take advantage of people that don't ask questions by offering them sh-t money and terms and conditions. Man up.

BGozIE

Jonti wrote: »

You are off your head if you accept and entry job in IT at €9 per hour! You didn't go to college for four years to get paid minimum wage.
Non qualified people I know earn more than that!
Get on the phone to HR and tell them you want at least €20 per hour to start with.
People and companies take advantage of people that don't ask questions by offering them sh-t money and terms and conditions. Man up.

I agree the salary is ridiculous, thing about this is, OP hasnt explicitly stated what it is they are doing, if its an Honours degree or how much experience they have. OP needs to clarify this.

That being said your right, it is a shocking salary for someone with any qualifications in IT.

TrustedApple

The job role includes SQL coding and design of databases and support for them around the office. So its coding and support.

Thats what i am going to tell them i been trying to call them back for the last hour to speak to HR about it and i know what i wont per hour. I wont to work out the terms better now as that i know what they are now.

Stheno

BGozIE wrote: »

I agree the salary is ridiculous, thing about this is, OP hasnt explicitly stated what it is they are doing, if its an Honours degree or how much experience they have. OP needs to clarify this.

That being said your right, it is a shocking salary for someone with any qualifications in IT.

It's a six month contract so not a graduate position as I would understand them, which are usually permanent

Routine service desk entry level roles often start on low salaries, think the starting point in HP is 22k for such roles.

lawred2

Jonti wrote: »

You are off your head if you accept and entry job in IT at €9 per hour! You didn't go to college for four years to get paid minimum wage.
Non qualified people I know earn more than that!
Get on the phone to HR and tell them you want at least €20 per hour to start with.
People and companies take advantage of people that don't ask questions by offering them sh-t money and terms and conditions. Man up.

ah that's a bit much for a grad like

FortySeven

TrustedApple wrote: »

The job role includes SQL coding and design of databases and support for them around the office. So its coding and support.

Thats what i am going to tell them i been trying to call them back for the last hour to speak to HR about it and i know what i wont per hour. I wont to work out the terms better now as that i know what they are now.

Tell them to deck right off. Sql coding @9ph? Incredulous op. Absolutely unbelievable that they would try to deck you over in this way. You should name and shame.
Also. Grow up fast or you will always be a victim. I mean this in the nicest possible way. You are worth money to an employer. Lidl pay 11.50 for shelfstackers ffs!

Button_y

OK so you have left the salary discussion late and they go with the lowest amount they could get away with on your contract. For future if this is not done at interview stage it should be done when an offer is made, way before contracts arrive while you still have negotiating power. You wouldn't agree to buy an item before finding out the price would you? It gives free reign to the seller to set the price.

Before returning to the table and demanding more. Have a think about it Have you been offered other IT jobs and if you have how does the salary compare? What is the market like in the area? Is the experience you could gain worth putting up with it for a bit? What are the hours like and is overtime paid? Do you know any other grads who have started in this company, in the last couple of years that you could inquire on starting salaries?

After considering the options approach the company letting them know that you were delighted with the offer but you were very surprised that their starting salary for grads was so low? Give them an opportunity to offer more or explain. Perhaps its their standard amount for grads and if it is it won't be the first time they have had the discussion! Maybe query on whether the salary is reviewed in 6 months and what % increments are likely. What additional benefits there are. Be careful about how you approach the discussion you want to get them to return to negotiations not have a standoff.

If you don't get a higher offer and don't take the job, don't be too disheartened. See it as a lesson learned one your likely to come across again and at least you'll be better prepared.

purpleisafruit

Jonti wrote: »

You are off your head if you accept and entry job in IT at €9 per hour! You didn't go to college for four years to get paid minimum wage.
Non qualified people I know earn more than that!
Get on the phone to HR and tell them you want at least €20 per hour to start with.
People and companies take advantage of people that don't ask questions by offering them sh-t money and terms and conditions. Man up.

€20 an hour equates to c. 42k salary. That's big money for a graduate position. Realistically, 30-35k is the standard in IT from what I've seen amongst class mates

Saipanne

lawred2 wrote: »

ah that's a bit much for a grad like

€42000 for someone with zero experience...

Stheno

purpleisafruit wrote: »

€20 an hour equates to c. 42k salary. That's big money for a graduate position. Realistically, 30-35k is the standard in IT from what I've seen amongst class mates

Thats for those with firsts generally going into the big grad programmes

Others are from 25k onwards

Op is talking about a six month contract though, not a grad position such as those above.

Mrs OBumble

TrustedApple wrote: »

WIT is where my degree is from and it is in computers i also have the oracle Java certs and another 3 certs on top of it.

If you don't believe me do you wont to see my contact ?. As it clearly says 9 euros a hour for that role.

I have a learning disability EX dyslexia and some times its hard to spell right and get the grammar the right way around.

Is it actually a regular job you have been offered, or some sort of supported-employment placement?

Again, don't want to be mean but I would not let someone with your spelling near my codebase!

TrustedApple

Regular I use a program called Ginger when i code on boards on my phone i cant be assed sitting it up right.

Called them back up got a extra 3 euros a hour and everything i asked for in the contract. Happy out with that.

ec18

Sounds like a support position, not an engineer job. For a support job 9 p/h might not be terribly out of proportion. The term multi national is a bit vague as well as to what it means i.e are you talking a google/apple type? consultancy?

Without more details about the company and the role offered it's hard to say whether it's a good or bad wage....just by the fact alone that it's given in a hourly rate it doesn't sound like an an engineer role.

Stheno

TrustedApple wrote: »

Regular I use a program called Ginger when i code on boards on my phone i cant be assed sitting it up right.

Called them back up got a extra 3 euros a hour and everything i asked for in the contract. Happy out with that.

Good result so. Hopefully the experience you get will allow you move on to bigger things after the six months. Make sure they confirm everything in writing and that you get an up to date contract with all of your areas of concern addressed.

Mehapoy

FortySeven wrote: »

Tell them to deck right off. Sql coding @9ph? Incredulous op. Absolutely unbelievable that they would try to deck you over in this way. You should name and shame.
Also. Grow up fast or you will always be a victim. I mean this in the nicest possible way. You are worth money to an employer. Lidl pay 11.50 for shelfstackers ffs!

That seems horribly low for a graduate dev/support role, I earned that in pounds when I started! best thing is get onto HR and tell them you're very dissapointed with the rate offered, find out from college mates what they are getting and if you're not happy with their new offer reject and apply to other places, the jobs market is surely not that bad at the moment...

FortySeven

TrustedApple wrote: »

Its a engineer job thats what the job spec says. So have to wait and see now what i will be doing come next week.

They have over 15k people working for them and they would be believe apple lv.




I have now changed to a salary over a hours wage now and i am more happier with that as its easier to understand i think and will at lest get a proper wage every week and wont cut hours. Have to wait to get everything sent to me now

Good news, now be careful they don't try to get you to work extra hours while salaried.

Gerry T

Well done op, I was going to suggest taking the job. You get relevant experience in the field you want. It allows you to continue looking for a more suitable job. If you do get an offer elsewhere in say 6 to 12 months you can use that to negotiate a higher salary or leave, your choice. Starting off money is far less important than good experience, helping to build your CV

Squatman

if you went to college for 4 years you should be quoted in salary, not in per hour basis. plus, you should be getting 30k if you did a 4 year course IMO.

CiniO

TrustedApple wrote: »

Hi guys i got a job offer there the other day and i never talked to them about my wages i got the contract there and i am not impressed with the wages at all and its a lot less then other people i know who work in the same kind of roles in IT. In the interview they never brought up wages or anything like that and i didnt because i am not rude.

I cant live on them wages due to the fact rent is gone nuts and i am still paying off my student loan and in the job i am in now i get a better wage for a less role.

Will i be wrong to ask for more money for the role ?.

It's not rude to ask about salary on the interview. Job is agreement to benefit both sides.
You are to provide your labour to them - so they ask you about your qualifications, experience, etc.
They are to provide you with salary - so you should ask how much are they willing to pay.
It's really as simple as that.

€9 per hour is bit ridiculous in your profession.

TrustedApple

If it was only as easy as people think it is to get jobs in a entry lv role in IT.

I know so many people who cant get jobs in entry lv roles with better degrees then me. I had to go i think on 14 interviews before i got a job offer and some of the stuff i was asked in interviews was shocking from how blue doors is there in cork to picking a flower suppler for a IT dev job.

At this stage i am happy i got a job and would have taking anything as long as its fairly ok money. Its only 6 months after that i will have 6 months under my belt and will get a better job or the job i will be in will be better paid. Sometimes we have to take these jobs to get the exp or another 6 months in a job i hate to something else comes along. I was in a job that was shocking the life out of me and just had no intreat in anymore.

Elessar

TrustedApple wrote: »

If it was only as easy as people think it is to get jobs in a entry lv role in IT.

I know so many people who cant get jobs in entry lv roles with better degrees then me. I had to go i think on 14 interviews before i got a job offer and some of the stuff i was asked in interviews was shocking from how blue doors is there in cork to picking a flower suppler for a IT dev job.

At this stage i am happy i got a job and would have taking anything as long as its fairly ok money. Its only 6 months after that i will have 6 months under my belt and will get a better job or the job i will be in will be better paid. Sometimes we have to take these jobs to get the exp or another 6 months in a job i hate to something else comes along. I was in a job that was shocking the life out of me and just had no intreat in anymore.

Well done OP, you're absolutely right, entry level roles are very difficult to get and even for people with some experience (me) moving on is not easy street. I can't count how many interviews I've had in the last year where either I didn't get it (someone was more experienced), I did a bad interview, or the company were tossers. You have a good attitude, forget about money in the beginning just get on the ladder and you can increase afterwards.

loyatemu

CiniO wrote:

It's not rude to ask about salary on the interview. Job is agreement to benefit both sides. You are to provide your labour to them - so they ask you about your qualifications, experience, etc. They are to provide you with salary - so you should ask how much are they willing to pay. It's really as simple as that.

Don't agree with this, negotiate when they offer you the job, not in the interview (unless they ask, but that would be unusual).