WARNING - Be careful buying from Apple Ireland. Also - Advice desperately needed

whiterebel

A bit late now, but Apple have a 14 day no quibble return policy. You should have called them them and had them collect it as soon as you found the problem with it.

Ryuzaki

whiterebel wrote: »

A bit late now, but Apple have a 14 day no quibble return policy. You should have called them them and had them collect it as soon as you found the problem with it.

Yeah I'm aware of that now. Thanks though

Dial Hard

sdanseo wrote:

I almost laughed out loud reading that. They trade in Ireland and you bought it here. For business in IRELAND, they conform to IRISH law, and some EU directives indirectly.

So did I. There is no way in hell anyone in the CCPC told the OP that Irish consumer law doesn't apply to Apple because they're an American company.

A *lot* of retail companies genuinely don't understand statutory rights but the CCPC exists almost entirely to protect consumers and they are ridiculously knowledgeable in this sphere.

Ryuzaki

Dial Hard wrote: »

So did I. There is no way in hell anyone in the CCPC told the OP that Irish consumer law doesn't apply to Apple because they're an American company.

A *lot* of retail companies genuinely don't understand statutory rights but the CCPC exists almost entirely to protect consumers and they are ridiculously knowledgeable in this sphere.

I'm not sure if this is implying I'm lying or not and I will in no way to it the wrong way but allow me to share the brief experience I had with them.

I had just gotten off a 3 hour phone call with Apple which went literally nowhere other than them essentially saying "Come at me bro". This was prior to being escalated to the Customer Relations department. So the call ended in the runup to closing time for the Consumer Help Line.

I ring the help line (Got the number from http://www.consumerhelp.ie/) and I explain my situation. They say I am totally in the right and deserve my refund and so on BUT the guy said he wasn't totally sure as he was looking up Apple as I was speaking to him and he said they seemed to be an American based / established company. He politely asked me if it was okay for him to speak with his colleagues who were a lot more knowledgeable in this subject / area and that he would give me a callback the next morning. I thanked him for his time and effort and that was that.

The next morning he explains to me over the phone there is bad news.
The company is established outside of EU jurisdiction and my Consumer Rights as an Irish citizen / EU member were irrelevant. He said I can try but it's all going to be at the companies discretion and it could just go nowhere. He told me the small claims court would be the best option, to go to the SCC in Cork. He briefly explained the process / idea of it and that I would pay €20 for a consultation and letter or something.

I'm just going by what I'm told but I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong.
I'm a 19 year old student with no experience in anything like this so.. yeah

I appreciate all the support and contributions made though and I'm really learning a lot!

Oxter

Apple pay Corporation Tax in Ireland. Non resident companies dont.

dudara

As a previous poster said, find the VAT number on your invoice. It should look like IE1234567 and that can be used to find out the company from which you purchased. A lot of American companies pass their revenue through Irish-based entities in order to benefit from our corporation tax, so I'd be higjhly surprised of your purchase was handled by a non-irish entity. It might be a Lux-based entity but I think that can still be persued through SSC.

Ryuzaki

Oxter wrote: »

Apple pay Corporation Tax in Ireland. Non resident companies dont.

This is good to know, thanks!

Ryuzaki

dudara wrote: »

As a previous poster said, find the VAT number on your invoice. It should look like IE1234567 and that can be used to find out the company from which you purchased. A lot of American companies pass their revenue through Irish-based entities in order to benefit from our corporation tax, so I'd be higjhly surprised of your purchase was handled by a non-irish entity. It might be a Lux-based entity but I think that can still be persued through SSC.

Yeah I had a look and I didn't see it but it was late last night and I was quite tired so I'll have another look today when I get a break in college. I found a WEEE number or something though which showed they were registered in Ireland and another poster on page 2 found out that it was an Irish entity I was dealing with so it looks like I'll now be going from there!

irish gent

Contact Apple Support <https://getsupport.apple.com/>
<SNIP> Personal contact details removed

Contact Apple Support <https://getsupport.apple.com/>

Ryuzaki

irish gent wrote: »

Contact Apple Support <https://getsupport.apple.com/>

<SNIP> personal contact details removed

Contact Apple Support <https://getsupport.apple.com/>

I appreciate that! Although I think iOS covers their smaller devices? Might be wrong there though! I'll definitely fire off an email later today, thanks a million for digging it out though!!

boardzz

Ryuzaki wrote: »

I purchased the Laptop on http://www.apple.com/ie/macbook-pro/
which is their Irish side of the website I believe.

The purchase was made in conjunction with a Campus.ie discount which I was entitled to through my college.

I must apologize, I'm only 19 and I'm not totally au fait with taking legal action. Do you care to elaborate more on what you think I should do?

EDIT: Abbreviations, duh

Sorry to tell you but you had 14 days to return the laptop to Apple for a full refund no questions asked.
It would have saved you all the hassle you experienced.

Ryuzaki

boardzz wrote: »

Sorry to tell you but you had 14 days to return the laptop to Apple for a full refund no questions asked.
It would have saved you all the hassle you experienced.

I appreciate your input but this has already been mentioned. I realise this now but it's blatantly too late. Thanks anyway though!

dudara

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah I had a look and I didn't see it but it was late last night and I was quite tired so I'll have another look today when I get a break in college. I found a WEEE number or something though which showed they were registered in Ireland and another poster on page 2 found out that it was an Irish entity I was dealing with so it looks like I'll now be going from there!

If the invoice doesn't have a VAT number listed, then it is not a valid invoice for VAT purposes under EU legislation.

Just because the company has an Irish WEEE and Irish VAT registration doesn't mean they are Irish based. But it does give you information.

Ryuzaki

dudara wrote: »

If the invoice doesn't have a VAT number listed, then it is not a valid invoice for VAT purposes under EU legislation.

Just because the company has an Irish WEEE and Irish VAT registration doesn't mean they are Irish based. But it does give you information.

I appreciate this. If I get time I'll screenshot it and omit my personal details. Thanks for the heads up though

Paulw

Apple have a large installation down in Cork.

Also, on the CRO website you can find Apple Operations and Apple Retail registered addresses in Cork.

Time

I've actually taken the SCC route against Apple here in Ireland before and irregardless of what other people are saying, you 100 % can sue them here.

All this stuff of them being an American company is rubbish. The company you purchased from is registered and based in Ireland and Irish Law applies.

I have to say the amount of misinformation on both this thread and indeed this forum is worrying. Posters should really do their research before posting.

Dial Hard

Ryuzaki wrote:

The next morning he explains to me over the phone there is bad news. The company is established outside of EU jurisdiction and my Consumer Rights as an Irish citizen / EU member were irrelevant. He said I can try but it's all going to be at the companies discretion and it could just go nowhere. He told me the small claims court would be the best option, to go to the SCC in Cork. He briefly explained the process / idea of it and that I would pay €20 for a consultation and letter or something.

I passed this onto my sister who works for the CCPC as it's completely erroneous information if you bought the laptop in Ireland and she can't believe you were told this.

Can you maybe comfirm where you bought the laptop as your OP just says it was through college. Thanks.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Time wrote: »

I've actually taken the SCC route against Apple here in Ireland before and irregardless of what other people are saying, you 100 % can sue them here.

All this stuff of them being an American company is rubbish. The company you purchased from is registered and based in Ireland and Irish Law applies.

I have to say the amount of misinformation on both this thread and indeed this forum is worrying. Posters should really do their research before posting.

In fairness, I think the over-riding advice here has been that Apple do come under Irish legislation. The OP was told otherwise elsewhere.

Ryuzaki

Time wrote: »

I've actually taken the SCC route against Apple here in Ireland before and irregardless of what other people are saying, you 100 % can sue them here.

All this stuff of them being an American company is rubbish. The company you purchased from is registered and based in Ireland and Irish Law applies.

I have to say the amount of misinformation on both this thread and indeed this forum is worrying. Posters should really do their research before posting.

Oh wow really? Do you mind elaborating on it and explaining the whole experience and process of it to me and how it went? If needs be you could do so over PM and I'd be ever so grateful to hear about it.

I have done research and I don't mean to misinform, the idea is this is literally what I have been told from every party and the fact that you have had to point this out is exactly the point of this post. If I'm being told all of this you can only imagine the amount of people being told the same thing! This needs to be known and addressed.

Thank you so much for your time and reply though and I'd love to hear more!

Ryuzaki

Dial Hard wrote: »

I passed this onto my sister who works for the CCPC as it's completely erroneous information if you bought the laptop in Ireland and she can't believe you were told this.

Can you maybe comfirm where you bought the laptop as your OP just says it was through college. Thanks.

Yeah it's insane and this is why I posted. I think people need to understand I'm 19 years old and was 18 during most of this ordeal too. I'm only young and have little to no experience with this so if I was told by the company what I was told, I didn't know any better and hence me posting all this here right now.

I bought the Laptop from Apple Ireland (http://www.apple.com/ie/macbook-pro/) when I say through the college I meant I got an affiliate link that when clicked lets me purchase through the official Apple Store with discounts applied.

Thanks for your time and reply and I appreciate you taking this issue to your sister and providing her insight, it means a lot to me and I'm learning a ton! Thanks!

Ryuzaki

Ryland Narrow Puppet wrote: »

In fairness, I think the over-riding advice here has been that Apple do come under Irish legislation. The OP was told otherwise elsewhere.

Yes this is exactly it. The point is they told me essentially lies in order to fob me off, or at least so it seems.

spyderski

OP, I've read most of this thread, and amount of babble is quite amazing. To clear up a few points:

1 Apple's European online retail operation is based in Cork. Not that this really matters, as EU legislation applies to your transaction, whether they are based in Cork, Amsterdam or Torremolinos! This is FACT and further discussion on this point is irrelevant and confusing.

2 Apple are the largest company in the world (by market cap.) and did not get there by having the appaling level of customer service you describe. In my experience over the past 15 years, with literally dozens of Apple devices, I have found their customer service to be the best I have ever experienced. Their support team in Cork are always incredibly helpful, and in my experience, if they are at fault they will put it right.

3 You continually state how young you are, surely you have someone who could give you guidance on this? Anyway, dealing with CompuB, Mactivate Etc. may have confused the issue, and you are now annoyed at this having gone on for months. The level of detail you have gone into regarding your interactions with various parties would confuse anyone. My advice would be to forget about your past issues with taking calls in college, days off work etc. and contact Apple again, simply stating that you have a laptop which they or their agent repaired in an unsatisfactory manner. Tell them you have given them ample opportunity to resolve the issue, and if you cannot get satisfaction you will go to a solicitor. Forget about free stuff, compensation etc. : get them to agree to replace the laptop. When/if they agree to this you can ask for some form of compensation, but prattling on about it at this stage muddies the waters.

4 In the unlikely event you do not get satisfaction, go to a solicitor. Forget about small claims etc. Any solicitor would love to take on this case (if it is as you describe) because Apple are clearly at fault and the solicitor will be assured of his costs when you win.

Take the emotion out of the situation and get it resolved, then get on with your life, youve already wasted enough time on something that could have been easily resolved with a little guidance. Delaying this issue messing around on boards is actually weakening your position. Deal with it TODAY. An hour or two will sort it one way or the other, hopefully with a replacement.

Sorry if I am being very direct, but I'm trying to get you to deal with this properly. Best of luck.

Time

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Oh wow really? Do you mind elaborating on it and explaining the whole experience and process of it to me and how it went? If needs be you could do so over PM and I'd be ever so grateful to hear about it.

I have done research and I don't mean to misinform, the idea is this is literally what I have been told from every party and the fact that you have had to point this out is exactly the point of this post. If I'm being told all of this you can only imagine the amount of people being told the same thing! This needs to be known and addressed.

Thank you so much for your time and reply though and I'd love to hear more!

I'll send you a PM now.

keithclancy

You bought it from the Applestore (Based in Hollyhill in Cork)

They are an Irish registered company. (It's written on the Invoice that was on the box)

You should have returned it under the 2 week policy

http://www.apple.com/ie/shop/help/returns_refund

Returns are subject to Apple's Sales and Refunds Policy. If you change your mind, you can return your Standard hardware to us within 14 calendar days of delivery.

You didn't need to do any of that stuff at all.

user1842

How did you pay for your laptop? If it was via a debit/credit card, contact your bank and initiate a charge back:

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/chargeback

Then it will be Apple's problem

spyderski

user1842 wrote: »

How did you pay for your laptop? If it was via a debit/credit card, contact your bank and initiate a charge back:

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/chargeback

Then it will be Apple's problem

More misleading advice OP. You could and should have done this at the beginning, but there is a time limit of 120 days for chargebacks. As you state your purchase was many months ago this will not apply, so don't waste time on this route.

ConsumerHelp: Fiona

Ryuzaki wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is implying I'm lying or not and I will in no way to it the wrong way but allow me to share the brief experience I had with them.

I had just gotten off a 3 hour phone call with Apple which went literally nowhere other than them essentially saying "Come at me bro". This was prior to being escalated to the Customer Relations department. So the call ended in the runup to closing time for the Consumer Help Line.

I ring the help line (Got the number from http://www.consumerhelp.ie/) and I explain my situation. They say I am totally in the right and deserve my refund and so on BUT the guy said he wasn't totally sure as he was looking up Apple as I was speaking to him and he said they seemed to be an American based / established company. He politely asked me if it was okay for him to speak with his colleagues who were a lot more knowledgeable in this subject / area and that he would give me a callback the next morning. I thanked him for his time and effort and that was that.

The next morning he explains to me over the phone there is bad news.
The company is established outside of EU jurisdiction and my Consumer Rights as an Irish citizen / EU member were irrelevant. He said I can try but it's all going to be at the companies discretion and it could just go nowhere. He told me the small claims court would be the best option, to go to the SCC in Cork. He briefly explained the process / idea of it and that I would pay €20 for a consultation and letter or something.

I'm just going by what I'm told but I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong.
I'm a 19 year old student with no experience in anything like this so.. yeah

I appreciate all the support and contributions made though and I'm really learning a lot!

Hi Ryuzaki,

This is the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission replying to your post.

We would like to clarify that apple.com/ie has a registered address in Ireland therefore, products purchased on-line from this store are covered under consumer law in Ireland. On this basis, the product must be of reasonable and acceptable standard and quality, be fit for the purpose it was bought for and match the description given by the retailer or in any advertisements. If a product turns out to be faulty and you are not to blame for the fault, you have a number of options under consumer law and may be entitled to a repair, a replacement or a refund.

More information on your rights can be found at: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/faulty-goods

We note from your information that you have contacted Apple on a number of occasions but the issue remains unresolved. We would now suggest that you submit a formal complaint to Apple in writing, outlining the issues and how you would like to see the matter resolved. If the matter is not resolved to your satisfaction you may wish to consider using the small claims process.

Further details on how to make an effective complaint, including template letters and information on the Small Claims Process can be found through the following link: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/how-to-complain

If you would like to discuss the issue further please give our consumer helpline a call again on 1890 432 432 and identify yourself as the caller from boards.ie with the Apple issue.

Thanks,
Fiona

user1842

spyderski wrote: »

user1842 wrote: »

How did you pay for your laptop? If it was via a debit/credit card, contact your bank and initiate a charge back:

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/chargeback

Then it will be Apple's problem

More misleading advice OP. You could and should have done this at the beginning, but there is a time limit of 120 days for chargebacks. As you state your purchase was many months ago this will not apply, so don't waste time on this route.

How is this misleading advice? 120 days is about 4 months. I cant find anywhere in the thread that states date of purchase.

whiterebel

user1842 wrote: »

How is this misleading advice? 120 days is about 4 months. I cant find anywhere in the thread that states date of purchase.

People keep suggesting chargeback as if it is the answer to all problems. We spoke to the bank about a chargeback last week, because we were charged by a Hotel, despite it being cancelled within the required time frame.
They want proof that we had contacted the bank, laying out our case, including the cancellation conformation etc.
They wanted any correspondence from the hotel.
Then, and only then they would consider a chargeback, which they would do, which also meant cancelling our credit cards, and re-issuing new ones.

L1011

whiterebel wrote: »

Then, and only then they would consider a chargeback, which they would do, which also meant cancelling our credit cards, and re-issuing new ones.

This is your bank being deliberately obstructive to try stop you doing it. There is zero need to replace cards after a chargeback, I've done it enough times myself from double charges to bankrupt retailers and non-deliveries with no response. I would have refused to let them do that and threaten the Regulator on them.