WARNING - Be careful buying from Apple Ireland. Also - Advice desperately needed

Ryuzaki

To preface the story: I'm a 19 year old second year college student. After my first year of Computer Science my parents said I could buy a Macbook Pro because I did pretty good and then I could pay them back as I saw fit. (For Computer Scientists out there, please don't hate me I wanted to work with xcode even though I'm personally an android fan!)




I ended up purchasing the 13" Macbook Pro with the Retina display, just the base version as that was expensive enough as is. I bought it through the college though and got a discount which was cool enough. Anyway, a week or two later the laptop arrives, I was so excited as I had never even used a mac before in my life. So, I open it up and get it all started and life was great, or so I thought.




Here is where the problem begins. I pick up the laptop, open, for the first time ever to move it annnnnnnnnd rattle rattle rattle When the laptop is tilted left or right, it rattles. I was shocked. Weren't Apple renown for their exceptional build quality?? It sounded to me like the glass Apple logo on the back was rattling. I went on assuming maybe they all did that and lived with it. After a few weeks I was with a friend who also has one, and I asked to see if his does too. Nope. Great, so it's genuinely defective.




(At this point I'd like to point out the laptop had software issues in so far as it would frequently freeze and no input was accepted for up to a solid minute and then would resume. This was mainly when doing a 3 finger swipe between screens or whatever they are called and it would freeze mid swipe. But honestly, I would be willing to write that off as a bug or something, but it was mentioned later.)




So when I got home that day I called Apple support and got a lovely guy who was totally willing to help. He was genuinely so nice that I felt bad that I had a problem. He told me to bring it to Compu b and they will fix it totally free and without charge and he was so apologetic that I had a problem. So I bring it to Compu b and here is the real beginning of what I would deem one of the most frustrating situations of my life. (For any gamers, I am a big fan of the Souls series and that doesn't even scratch the level of frustration this caused)




I arrive at the counter of Compu b and explain my situation and that I was told to bring it to them. They didn't quite understand what I meant by a rattle and asked me to demonstrate so I take my laptop out of it's sleeve/case thing and tilt it left and right and sure enough, Rattle rattle rattle. Needless to say, the technicians jaw dropped and they said they had never seen something quite like that before but to definitely hand it in and they will take a look and get straight to fixing it, free of charge, of course. I also explained that there was a software issue where it would freeze and so on and they said they would look into it too. They then asked me for the password on the laptop and I said I would just remove it and went to do so. They said No just leave it on and give us the password and insisted on not letting me change it. Whatever, I don't use it really for anything else although that said I'd still prefer not to give it out. Anyway, the person I was dealing with said "Honestly, it will probably take a day or two, but I have to quote you 3 - 5 working days because of policy". Great, what a nice experience to walk in and everything is just sorted without paying a penny!




About a week later I get a call in the middle of a lecture, I quickly run out and answer and it's the Compu b technician ringing to ask what the problem with the laptop was. I didn't even know what to say because the wrote a fair sized chunk of text on what I was experiencing and gave me a copy of said report. Anyway, I still went on and told her, maybe they mislaid the report or there was a miscommunication. She asked me if wiping the laptop was fine and of course it was and that was the end of the call. After 10 working days I finally get a call to tell me to come pick it up. I go in and all is seemingly well. I was told the whole screen was replaced which I believe is the hinge up part of the laptop as it was all in plastic wraps and pristine. I took a quick look for any dings on the laptop and I was on my way. I get home and take all the plastic wrap off (This is important) and sure enough, rattle rattle rattle. The screen was also mounted *at and angle to describe it, it simply looked like this if you looked from the top down -> \ . So if the laptop was closed one the screen would ever so slightly hang over the edge of the body on one side and wouldn't be flush at all. I noticed this because when I was taking it out of the sleeve / case it was kind of sharp when my hand brushed against it so I took a closer look. Also, the vent / hinge at the back, one side was sitting higher than the other. Great, back to Compu b.




On arrival at Compu b they were shocked at my discovery and agreed to remount the screen properly. This only took the guts of an hour and it when I got it back it was still marginally off and not quite perfect, enough so that it would still be unpleasantly sharp if your hand was to brush against it. So, being the type of person I am, I brought it to the attention of the technician I was dealing with. I said that it was still sharp and not quite flush like the original laptop had been and he said and I quote "Ah yeah, sure it will never be perfect again. It will always be that little bit off, you just have to deal with it, tough luck". Nonononononononoooooooooooooononono. That's not tough. I'm not going to pay over a grand for a laptop and have it be wrong and be told tough. I smile and nod and leave and decide to ring Apple as I was not going to give a service provider which would treat a customer like that the time of day.




Upon calling Apple as per usual it's jumping through hoops and being transferred back and forth and being but on hold for ages. Eventually, I manage to get my case escalated into the Customer Relations department. The rep take a few minutes to read through my report so far and what has happened. They appreciate my patience and profusely apologize for what I have gone through. He said what the person in Compu B said was totally unacceptable and he couldn't believe I would be told something like that.




At this point I just politely asked him for a refund on my laptop as it was still rattling with a crooked screen and to quote the technician (Someone who is qualified to examine, repair etc these products) that the laptop will "Never be perfect again" Unfortunately, Irish consumer laws do not apply to purchasing from Apple Ireland as they are established in the US so the refund or replacement is at the discretion of the Manufacturer. (*I rang the consumer laws help line afterwards and he said my best bet was to take them to a small claims court but obviously, as a 19 year old student that is *a bit extreme for me. *) So he said before he could even consider *replacing the laptop, not refunding, it would need to have 3 repairs done to it. Simple, right? I have had to bring it in twice so once more and my problem might be slightly sorted. The rep recommended I go to one of two other establishments that weren't Compu b, either Ifixit or Mactivate. This was less than ideal as they are not exactly close and I'm a student who is only learning to drive so in order to get there I would have to take a day off and ask a parent to do the same in order to bring me out to one of these locations. I mentioned how all the traveling has been at my expense and I missed out on 3 weeks of note taking in college so far from all of this. The rep apologized and said they would organize a couturier to pick it up and bring it out to be repaired and drop it back, all I had to do was be there for the courier. They then said that the repair company would be in contact in order to sort out a time and date. (I would like to note at this point it has been explicitly mentioned I am a full time student and they know not to call me unless its after college or during a break for me and were told what times suited and didn't) This was fine I asked him to pass on my information on what times suited and didn't and we can try figure this all out. The rep then finished the call by apologizing for the whole ordeal and that they would put together some form of "package" to apologize for all the inconveniences I have had and to make up for everything. I thanked him for his time, effort and gesture and we end the call at that. This was on a Friday so next Monday my phone is going off in the middle of an exam (We operate on a Continuous Assessment basis for most modules). After the exam I had seen it was the repair outfit and I had received an email in which they stated they tried to contact me and had no luck. I quickly e-mailed them back the second I saw the e-mail explaining my situation with the exam. I was pleasant and formal, I mentioned my disappointment that they were not told that I'm a full time student and calling me during college hours was strictly a no go but that my last class had been postponed to a different day so they could feel free to call me at any time for the rest of the day (It was about 1 / 1.30 when I responded). From here on radio silence ensued and there was no attempt to contact. When the Apple rep rang me to check in and see how I was getting on, I explained and they offered to set it up for me as I had no time to do so within the company's working hours. This was great, I told them when I would be free to do so and a time and it was sorted.




The day the laptop is supposed to be collected they never actually specified a time and didn't stick to the one I gave as strictly as I expected so the house was unoccupied at the time of collection. I was hardly expected to sit in front of the door all day in anticipation of the courier. I get a call about the issue and apologies are exchanged and another time is scheduled, this time I spoke to the repair outfit myself one on one. We organized for lunchtime, around one o' clock. I head out that morning to get personal things that needed to be done, done so I would be free in time for this collection. I'm home and all before lunch and waiting, no sign. It is then brought to my attention they called randomly during the morning and again no one was there to answer. This was infuriating as the time-frame was so vague and now I'm the bad guy. I tell them I'll organize a day off for me and a parent and I'll drop the laptop out.




Upon Arrival at the repair outfit the technician greets me. I apologize for the misunderstandings and explain and then we get straight to the point. I show him the rattling problem and again, his jaw drops. He said he had never seen anything like it before and like Compu b he will get straight to it and fix it. He wanted other technicians to look at it first etc so I left it with him and they would get back to me within a day to let me know the details and time-frame. Yet again, radio silence so I call up and ask about it and apparently I didn't exist and no one ever handed in a laptop of such description. After insisting and giving dates and times and reference numbers the person I'm dealing with eventually does manage to locate the laptop / case and tells me when it should be ready. Great, it's all finally coming together.




Now for the day I collect it. We drive out and go to collect it and I'm blown away by the quality of service, they handed it back to me all wrapped up in a bubble wrap envelope and with the adhesive covers for the new parts still on the machine and so on. This is great, I was so happy, I inspected it and moved it annnnd Silence. Perfect! I leave totally satisfied.
Later, the rep comes in contact (during college hours) and says the case with Apple will be closed and they were happy to help. Except no, the case is not closed. I explain to them that the only reason I was somewhat complacent with the idea of only repairing it over and over was because they said they would provide some form of compensation. The rep is gobsmacked, blown away. They claim to have never said that and it certainly won't be happening (During this call the Rep became quite heated. This wasn't the first or last time but I think its worth noting as its unprofessional, although I can totally understand the frustration they can feel although that's what they did sign up to do). I am shocked and explain how this is what they said and it is unacceptable and the response was that they organized a courier and I never followed through. This was true, BUT the courier never specified a time so it was ridiculous to expect me to take a whole day off and then sit waiting at the door for them to suddenly arrive when they see fit so I apologize but tell them that I'm not entirely the one to blame and it could've been organized a little better. The rep admits this is true and offers me a pair of Apple Earphones for my mac, as compensation. I genuinely laughed as I thought they were joking but was met with a serious response. I told them I already have Apple Earphones and for all this hassle and having a laptop that will always be off and never be perfect a pair of 15 euro earphones doesn't quite suffice. They say that there is no more they can do and if I would like to complain to go ahead but other than that my case is closed. I ask for it to be left open as I will do just that and we end the call there and I return to my lecture.




Over the next week, I had not used the laptop once and it was still covered in the adhesive plastic which comes on the new parts to protect them. In the middle of a lecture I had the laptop closed and decided to peel it off the Apple logo on the back. After peeling away the cover I decide to pick up the laptop and check and sure enough, rattle rattle rattle. The rep rings me again stating no complaint had been made and I explain to him what had happened. I was sitting with my group so they were there and witnessed it and before peeling it off. I also took a picture of the date and time and the sticker still on the laptop before peeling it off juuuussst in case there was any problems. The rep is surprised but understands. They say they will call the repair outfit and get back to me. They make note they are out of work for the coming week (Again, this was a Friday) so they will delegate the work and checkup to a colleague to make sure it gets done. Radio silence.



Finally, this brings us into the present, today. The rep rings me and we talk about the issue at hand. The rep says the repair outfit claim the rattle only happens if you forcefully flail the laptop and that it's "only a little rattle" and "not a big deal". They tell me that there is nothing more they can or will do as it is not a hardware problem so I will just have to live with it. They offer to close my case and I decline until further notice. I explain that the laptop is defective, it was not as described when I purchased it as it had a rattle (Bought it brand new from Apple Ireland through the Education thing, not refurbished) and they say that it's not defective in a way that they can deal with. They tell me I can go and try get it repaired at my own expense or if a repair crowd deems it to be a hardware issue that is under warranty they will foot the bill. After this I ask if I can escalate my problem any higher than them and they say I can write a complaint at most and I might receive a call about it. I asked them if there was a way of getting a definite response and they said it wasn't their job. I asked about a check one of their colleagues told me of where you bring it to a repair outfit and they can do an examination and deem it worth to be replaced or not. They just said it wasn't their job and they didn't know.
(Worth noting during this call this was the most angry the rep had gotten)



Tl;dr Bought a broken laptop from Apple, was lied to, and told tough tits its going to stay that way, kiddo. (Not literally told that verbatim but you get the idea)


In conclusion, I am honestly quite upset over the whole ordeal. I had to spend a lot of money and worked hard to get said money and all I got was a defective laptop. I personally have to always have things right so something like a scratch on my phone would be upsetting to me so you can imagine what a rattling laptop is like. I understand some may say "So what? It rattles, get over it" but its fairly audible and it will drive down any potential resale value in the future should I decide to change. I don't understand why I'm the one who has to just deal with it and put up with it. First and probably most definitely last time I will buy any product from Apple. It has been extremely stressful and frustrating and it has been the worst experience I have had with a company, ever.




I am now stuck as to what to do. Of course, I am going to compile a complaint letter and send it off to Apple but I don't exactly want a situation where they get it, put it in a bin and thats the end of it.
Has anyone ever had any experiences with a situation like this? What should or can I even do? Any advice would honestly be greatly appreciated!




Please note this is extremely paraphrased. The story took place over the span of a few months. If anyone would like to ask questions or wants further details I'm happy to provide them!

bloominballix

Any chance of a brief summary?

Ryuzaki

bloominballix wrote: »

Any chance of a brief summary?

Haha yeah, sorry. The Tl;dr isn't exactly at the bottom but moral of the story was

Tl;dr Bought a broken laptop from Apple, was lied to, and told tough tits its going to stay that way, kiddo. (Not literally told that verbatim but you get the idea)

foggy_lad

Apple must repair replace or refund!

You have the same consumer statutory rights as you do with any other product!

You have redress to the small claims court and frankly with a brand new €1000+ laptop that is the first place I would have gone once they refused a new replacement when the issue was first reported!


You should be taking a case to the small claims court now and it will cost you a maximum of €25 with no need to engage barristers or solicitors etc. Might be worth your while to get advice from your local community information centre.

Ryuzaki

foggy_lad wrote: »

Apple must repair replace or refund!

You have the same consumer statutory rights as you do with any other product!

You have redress to the small claims court and frankly with a brand new €1000+ laptop that is the first place I would have gone once they refused a new replacement when the issue was first reported!

Yeah I tried Consumer Rights but Apple is established in America and therefore conforms to American Consumer Right laws, namely that everything is at the discretion of the manufacturer.

foggy_lad

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah I tried Consumer Rights but Apple is established in America and therefore conforms to American Consumer Right laws, namely that everything is at the discretion of the manufacturer.

Bull! they trade in Ireland and as such are obliged to provide for their Irish customers consumer rights!

Under Irish consumer law they must repair and are entitled to one attempt which they made a total mess of! now they can offer a replacement which you can refuse as your trust in their ability to provide after sales care must surely be non existent. so their only real option is a full refund!

Also there is realistically no 1 year warranty because Irish law provides for up to 6 years of protection with the Sale of Goods Act.

foggy_lad

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah I tried Consumer Rights but Apple is established in America and therefore conforms to American Consumer Right laws, namely that everything is at the discretion of the manufacturer.

http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/4F0ACA2C99B3EAC78025715C00517853?opendocument&l=en

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0c609d7abff72c1c80256d2b0045bb64/64034533c237933d802576a5003a81c7?OpenDocument

theteal

What's your day job, OP?

Get your SCC application filled in, I don't know why you think it's so much hassle. I wouldn't waste anymore time being sent from pillar to post.

Ryuzaki

foggy_lad wrote: »

http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/4F0ACA2C99B3EAC78025715C00517853?opendocument&l=en

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0c609d7abff72c1c80256d2b0045bb64/64034533c237933d802576a5003a81c7?OpenDocument

You have no idea how much I appreciate this, thank you so much it means a lot.

Ryuzaki

theteal wrote: »

What's your day job, OP?

Get your SCC application filled in, I don't know why you think it's so much hassle. I wouldn't waste anymore time being sent from pillar to post.

Hahaha as the start of the post states, I'm actually a 19 (since September) year old full-time Computer Science student! No day or part time job unfortunately, I have freelanced in Web Development once or twice though!

Yeah it's a dreadful experience you have no idea how frustrating and stressful this has been. I have the same post made on /r/Ireland on reddit if you'd like to see more responses.

I appreciate the comments and support though it's looking like once my projects are all submitted next week I'll be straight on to the small claims.

foggy_lad

Maximum cost to you of the small claims procedure is €25 and you don't need solicitors or any other legal advice, in fact if you go and talk to the district court registrar in your local courthouse they will be able to give you great advice on what you will need and where/how to get it.

L1011

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah I tried Consumer Rights but Apple is established in America and therefore conforms to American Consumer Right laws, namely that everything is at the discretion of the manufacturer.

Not true, at all. Apple telling you that is just a further lie. I presume Apple told you this as nobody else should have.

BlueLass

Where exactly did you buy the laptop from? Was the shop situated in Ireland? If you go down the SCC route then the defendant mustbreside within the Irish jurisdiction otherwise where would the sheriff go to seize goods if payment not made? Also, make sure you sue the correct legal entity otherwise your decree will be useless and waste of time.

Ryuzaki

L1011 wrote: »

Not true, at all. Apple telling you that is just a further lie. I presume Apple told you this as nobody else should have.

I believe it was both parties who ended up providing this information. There was a lovely chap who worked at consumer rights and he didn't want to give me false information and offered to ask colleagues before giving me a definite answer. I got a call the next morning saying it was unfortunately at the discretion of the manufacturer because they're an American company and he suggested I go to the small claims court!

L1011

Ryuzaki wrote: »

I believe it was both parties who ended up providing this information. There was a lovely chap who worked at consumer rights and he didn't want to give me false information and offered to ask colleagues before giving me a definite answer. I got a call the next morning saying it was unfortunately at the discretion of the manufacturer because they're an American company and he suggested I go to the small claims court!

If it was under US rules the SCC would be useless so he was talking out both sides of his mouth.

Ryuzaki

BlueLass wrote: »

Where exactly did you buy the laptop from? Was the shop situated in Ireland? If you go down the SCC route then the defendant mustbreside within the Irish jurisdiction otherwise where would the sheriff go to seize goods if payment not made? Also, make sure you sue the correct legal entity otherwise your decree will be useless and waste of time.

I purchased the Laptop on http://www.apple.com/ie/macbook-pro/
which is their Irish side of the website I believe.

The purchase was made in conjunction with a Campus.ie discount which I was entitled to through my college.

I must apologize, I'm only 19 and I'm not totally au fait with taking legal action. Do you care to elaborate more on what you think I should do?

EDIT: Abbreviations, duh

BlueLass

No need to apologise, we all learn something new every day! Firstly, look at your invoice, where you charged VAT on the selling price. This would normally be at the end of the invoice and should be clearly indicated. If you paid VAT then the invoice should have a VAT number tbat s unique to the seller. Once you have the VAT number then you'll be able to trace the correct legal entity that should have an Irish presence physically - that entity is who you name on your Small Claims paperwork. Let me know if you trace the VAT number.

Ryuzaki

BlueLass wrote: »

No need to apologise, we all learn something new every day! Firstly, look at your invoice, where you charged VAT on the selling price. This would normally be at the end of the invoice and should be clearly indicated. If you paid VAT then the invoice should have a VAT number tbat s unique to the seller. Once you have the VAT number then you'll be able to trace the correct legal entity that should have an Irish presence physically - that entity is who you name on your Small Claims paperwork. Let me know if you trace the VAT number.

Haha thanks and yep I'm a firm believer in "everyday is a schoolday"! I believe I got an invoice through email as it was all online retail. I'll have a dig for it now and I'll keep you updated. Thanks so much for all the help you have no idea how helpful, inspiring and touching it is to have such an instantaneous and relevant response and help!

BlueLass

No bother, hopefully I'll be able to point you in right direction if nothing else, these type of things can be very confusing if you don't know about them - I know next to nothing about IT and can find it a bit overwhelming at times but that is your field of expertise so its swings and roundabouts, we all need to learn something new every day lol.

sdanseo

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah I tried Consumer Rights but Apple is established in America and therefore conforms to American Consumer Right laws, namely that everything is at the discretion of the manufacturer.

I almost laughed out loud reading that. They trade in Ireland and you bought it here. For business in IRELAND, they conform to IRISH law, and some EU directives indirectly.

The product was DOA, you are entitled to a refund, repair or replacement. Apple should deal with this directly because you bought it from them CompuB are not contractually involved with you and you do not have to deal with them. Consumer agency is a joke, almost like a union for disgruntled people, deal with the law and not the quangos.

As for asking and then INSISTING for your password - this is a stupid and dangerous breach of the Data Protection Act. Report it to the Data Protection Commissioner.

Time

sdanseo wrote: »

I almost laughed out loud reading that. They trade in Ireland and you bought it here. For business in IRELAND, they conform to IRISH law, and some EU directives indirectly.

The product was DOA, you are entitled to a refund, repair or replacement. Apple should deal with this directly because you bought it from them CompuB are not contractually involved with you and you do not have to deal with them. Consumer agency is a joke, almost like a union for disgruntled people, deal with the law and not the quangos.

As for asking and then INSISTING for your password - this is a stupid and dangerous breach of the Data Protection Act. Report it to the Data Protection Commissioner.

Apple Distribution Internationals (Apples Irish Arm) info is Here in the corporate information box on the right. If you ring the court house in Cork City and ask to speak to the registers office, they'll guide you through the process.

BlueLass

Time wrote: »

Apple Distribution Internationals (Apples Irish Arm) info is Here in the corporate information box on the right. If you ring the court house in Cork City and ask to speak to the registers office, they'll guide you through the process.

Marvellous, that link has all the info the OP needs to proceed, located in top right hand side of page.

Ryuzaki

BlueLass wrote: »

No bother, hopefully I'll be able to point you in right direction if nothing else, these type of things can be very confusing if you don't know about them - I know next to nothing about IT and can find it a bit overwhelming at times but that is your field of expertise so its swings and roundabouts, we all need to learn something new every day lol.

Cheers, you have no idea how confusing all of it is haha. It's like all of a sudden there is this huge wave of options and potential solutions and it's hard to know where to begin.

The closest I found to anything that looks like a VAT number was their WEEE which seems to almost be the same thing?

APPLE WEEE REGISTRATION NUMBER 1807WB

Do you mind me asking what you do / how you know so much

Thanks again!

Ryuzaki

Time wrote: »

Apple Distribution Internationals (Apples Irish Arm) info is Here in the corporate information box on the right. If you ring the court house in Cork City and ask to speak to the registers office, they'll guide you through the process.

Hey, thanks so much for this! It will most likely be my next step and I'll do so ASAP. Thanks again

Ryuzaki

sdanseo wrote: »

I almost laughed out loud reading that. They trade in Ireland and you bought it here. For business in IRELAND, they conform to IRISH law, and some EU directives indirectly.

The product was DOA, you are entitled to a refund, repair or replacement. Apple should deal with this directly because you bought it from them CompuB are not contractually involved with you and you do not have to deal with them. Consumer agency is a joke, almost like a union for disgruntled people, deal with the law and not the quangos.

As for asking and then INSISTING for your password - this is a stupid and dangerous breach of the Data Protection Act. Report it to the Data Protection Commissioner.

Yeah I would've thought so too but have a look at this
http://www.apple.com/ie/shop/browse/open/salespolicies

and if you scroll down you'll see this
http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

In their defense they have repaired it to a functional standard and there is no hardware issue with the laptop

Yeah it's on my to-do list now and thanks for the suggestion!

BlueLass

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Cheers, you have no idea how confusing all of it is haha. It's like all of a sudden there is this huge wave of options and potential solutions and it's hard to know where to begin.

The closest I found to anything that looks like a VAT number was their WEEE which seems to almost be the same thing?

APPLE WEEE REGISTRATION NUMBER 1807WB

Do you mind me asking what you do / how you know so much

Thanks again!

Check the link above, it confirms that Apple is registered in Ireland and so therefore you can name them in your small claims. You will have to contact Cork courts as the claim has to be listed in the defendants jurisdiction, which in this case is Cork as this is where Apple have their Irish registered office.

The small claims registrar in cork should help you with any other questions, they're normally quite helpful, let me know how you get on.

Very surprised that the consumer agency couldn't/didn't assist more!!!

Ryuzaki

BlueLass wrote: »

Check the link above, it confirms that Apple is registered in Ireland and so therefore you can name them in your small claims. You will have to contact Cork courts as the claim has to be listed in the defendants jurisdiction, which in this case is Cork as this is where Apple have their Irish registered office.

The small claims registrar in cork should help you with any other questions, they're normally quite helpful, let me know how you get on.

Very surprised that the consumer agency couldn't/didn't assist more!!!

I did do and will do! One thing is I'm not sure what I'm claiming for and what happens although I assume that's explained? Am I claiming for the price of my laptop? Do I then subsequently return it? Do I claim for having my time "wasted" ?

Ridiculous but they only recommended the SCC and that was that. I guess I could've poked and prodded further and still can do.


Thanks for everything all of you though its been great and if anyone has anything to add, I'm all ears!

foggy_lad

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah I would've thought so too but have a look at this
http://www.apple.com/ie/shop/browse/open/salespolicies

and if you scroll down you'll see this
http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

Consumer Law Rights

Apple One-Year Limited Warranty or, in the case of products that are not Apple-branded, the product manufacturer’s warranty (as appropriate) are separate from and are in addition to consumer rights provided under Irish consumer law. For details, click here.

Their sales policy and their warranty is just what they say you will be given by them but it is not law nor can it replace your statutory rights.

In their defense they have repaired it to a functional standard and there is no hardware issue with the laptop

Yeah it's on my to-do list now and thanks for the suggestion!

They took a brand new laptop and buggered up the screen and hinges and claim that it will never be right again!

It may be functional but they have taken so much from the value of the product by their botched repairs it will never be worth anywhere near what you paid for it.


http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

Under Irish consumer law, consumers are entitled to a free of charge repair or replacement, discount or refund by the seller, of defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract of sale. These rights expire six years from delivery of the goods.

When you purchase Apple hardware products, you will also receive coverage from the Apple One-Year Limited Warranty. This coverage operates alongside and in addition to your statutory rights under Irish consumer law. You can also obtain additional benefits by purchasing the optional AppleCare Protection Plan or AppleCare+.1

Should your product be defective or if it does not conform with the contract of sale, you can choose to make a claim under Irish consumer law, the Apple One-Year Limited Warranty or the optional AppleCare Protection Plan or AppleCare+ (whichever is applicable).

Non–Apple branded products purchased from Apple are also eligible for coverage under Irish consumer law, but these are not covered by the Apple One-Year Limited Warranty, the AppleCare Protection Plan or AppleCare+.

Summary of Irish Consumer Law

Your consumer rights under Irish consumer law operate alongside, and in addition to, your rights under the Apple One-Year Limited Warranty and the optional AppleCare Protection Plan.

Under Irish consumer law, consumers may choose to have defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract sale either repaired or replaced free of charge. If a repair or replacement is impossible or would impose unreasonable expense on the seller, the consumer may then choose either to have the price reduced or to withdraw from the contract by returning the product in exchange for a full refund. A consumer is also entitled to withdraw from the contract by returning the product in exchange for a full refund if the consumer rejects the goods within a reasonable period of time. The primary responsibility is on the seller, which would be Apple if the goods were purchased from the Apple Online Store. If the goods were purchased from a third party reseller of Apple products, the primary responsibility to provide a remedy will lie with the reseller. These rights expire six years from delivery of the goods and a claim may be made subject to the defect being present at the time of purchase.

Under Irish consumer law, any defect or non-conformity of goods with the contract which becomes apparent within 6 months of delivery are presumed to have existed at the time of delivery. After the expiry of this 6 month period, the burden to prove that the defect or non-conformity of goods with the contract existed on delivery generally shifts to the consumer.

Irish consumer law automatically introduces that following terms into any contract of sale for goods and/or services to consumers:

Terms in relation to goods
The goods will be fit for a particular purpose specifically mentioned or for which such goods are commonly supplied.
The goods will match their description and be of satisfactory quality.
The instructions in relation to installation will be clear and if the product is used in accordance with the instruction, will not cause faults.


Terms in relation to services
The services will be provided with due care and skill.
The services will be fit for a particular purpose.
The services will be provided within a reasonable time.

For additional information on Irish consumer law, please visit the European Consumer Centre website at http://www.eccireland.ie.

Ryuzaki

foggy_lad wrote: »

Their sales policy and their warranty is just what they say you will be given by them but it is not law nor can it replace your statutory rights.
They took a brand new laptop and buggered up the screen and hinges and claim that it will never be right again!

It may be functional but they have taken so much from the value of the product by their botched repairs it will never be worth anywhere near what you paid for it.


http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

You're a gentleman (or woman!) and a scholar and deserve not just a pint but a keg (Or something or similar relevance if you're a pioneer!)

This has been extremely helpful and contained some things I didn't know like the 6 month period. The refund seems almost totally out of the question though if they just decide to replace the product.

Thank you so much for your time in finding and composing that I really, really appreciate it.

Arbie

I also had that noise issue with a new 12" MacBook. Compub and Apple both said it's a known issue caused by the new antenna used in the latest generation Macs. They replaced the screen anyway. The noise is still there. When I got it back they had put the trackpad on backwards so I've had to leave it back for another repair. I bought it 2 months ago & have had use of it for about 2 weeks in total.

Ryuzaki

Arbie wrote: »

I also had that noise issue with a new 12" MacBook. Compub and Apple both said it's a known issue caused by the new antenna used in the latest generation Macs. They replaced the screen anyway. The noise is still there. When I got it back they had put the trackpad on backwards so I've had to leave it back for another repair. I bought it 2 months ago & have had use of it for about 2 weeks in total.

Oh my god, boy are you in for a treat! It's such a fun and great experience! Expensive, too!

If you haven't already please take a look at this link

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/3u9230/warning_be_careful_buying_from_apple_ireland_or/

It is another place this was posted and has received feedback!

Thanks for your input nothing of the sort was ever mentioned to me about this antenna. Is it in the top half of the laptop? That's where the rattle is for me. Putting the track-pad on backwards make me burst out laughing, what a comical and unfortunate mistake to make!

I wish you all the best in your dealings with Apple and Compu b and please, please, please keep me updated with how you get on, I'd genuinely love to know!

whiterebel

A bit late now, but Apple have a 14 day no quibble return policy. You should have called them them and had them collect it as soon as you found the problem with it.

Ryuzaki

whiterebel wrote: »

A bit late now, but Apple have a 14 day no quibble return policy. You should have called them them and had them collect it as soon as you found the problem with it.

Yeah I'm aware of that now. Thanks though

Dial Hard

sdanseo wrote:

I almost laughed out loud reading that. They trade in Ireland and you bought it here. For business in IRELAND, they conform to IRISH law, and some EU directives indirectly.

So did I. There is no way in hell anyone in the CCPC told the OP that Irish consumer law doesn't apply to Apple because they're an American company.

A *lot* of retail companies genuinely don't understand statutory rights but the CCPC exists almost entirely to protect consumers and they are ridiculously knowledgeable in this sphere.

Ryuzaki

Dial Hard wrote: »

So did I. There is no way in hell anyone in the CCPC told the OP that Irish consumer law doesn't apply to Apple because they're an American company.

A *lot* of retail companies genuinely don't understand statutory rights but the CCPC exists almost entirely to protect consumers and they are ridiculously knowledgeable in this sphere.

I'm not sure if this is implying I'm lying or not and I will in no way to it the wrong way but allow me to share the brief experience I had with them.

I had just gotten off a 3 hour phone call with Apple which went literally nowhere other than them essentially saying "Come at me bro". This was prior to being escalated to the Customer Relations department. So the call ended in the runup to closing time for the Consumer Help Line.

I ring the help line (Got the number from http://www.consumerhelp.ie/) and I explain my situation. They say I am totally in the right and deserve my refund and so on BUT the guy said he wasn't totally sure as he was looking up Apple as I was speaking to him and he said they seemed to be an American based / established company. He politely asked me if it was okay for him to speak with his colleagues who were a lot more knowledgeable in this subject / area and that he would give me a callback the next morning. I thanked him for his time and effort and that was that.

The next morning he explains to me over the phone there is bad news.
The company is established outside of EU jurisdiction and my Consumer Rights as an Irish citizen / EU member were irrelevant. He said I can try but it's all going to be at the companies discretion and it could just go nowhere. He told me the small claims court would be the best option, to go to the SCC in Cork. He briefly explained the process / idea of it and that I would pay €20 for a consultation and letter or something.

I'm just going by what I'm told but I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong.
I'm a 19 year old student with no experience in anything like this so.. yeah

I appreciate all the support and contributions made though and I'm really learning a lot!

Oxter

Apple pay Corporation Tax in Ireland. Non resident companies dont.

dudara

As a previous poster said, find the VAT number on your invoice. It should look like IE1234567 and that can be used to find out the company from which you purchased. A lot of American companies pass their revenue through Irish-based entities in order to benefit from our corporation tax, so I'd be higjhly surprised of your purchase was handled by a non-irish entity. It might be a Lux-based entity but I think that can still be persued through SSC.

Ryuzaki

Oxter wrote: »

Apple pay Corporation Tax in Ireland. Non resident companies dont.

This is good to know, thanks!

Ryuzaki

dudara wrote: »

As a previous poster said, find the VAT number on your invoice. It should look like IE1234567 and that can be used to find out the company from which you purchased. A lot of American companies pass their revenue through Irish-based entities in order to benefit from our corporation tax, so I'd be higjhly surprised of your purchase was handled by a non-irish entity. It might be a Lux-based entity but I think that can still be persued through SSC.

Yeah I had a look and I didn't see it but it was late last night and I was quite tired so I'll have another look today when I get a break in college. I found a WEEE number or something though which showed they were registered in Ireland and another poster on page 2 found out that it was an Irish entity I was dealing with so it looks like I'll now be going from there!

irish gent

Contact Apple Support <https://getsupport.apple.com/>
<SNIP> Personal contact details removed

Contact Apple Support <https://getsupport.apple.com/>

Ryuzaki

irish gent wrote: »

Contact Apple Support <https://getsupport.apple.com/>

<SNIP> personal contact details removed

Contact Apple Support <https://getsupport.apple.com/>

I appreciate that! Although I think iOS covers their smaller devices? Might be wrong there though! I'll definitely fire off an email later today, thanks a million for digging it out though!!

boardzz

Ryuzaki wrote: »

I purchased the Laptop on http://www.apple.com/ie/macbook-pro/
which is their Irish side of the website I believe.

The purchase was made in conjunction with a Campus.ie discount which I was entitled to through my college.

I must apologize, I'm only 19 and I'm not totally au fait with taking legal action. Do you care to elaborate more on what you think I should do?

EDIT: Abbreviations, duh

Sorry to tell you but you had 14 days to return the laptop to Apple for a full refund no questions asked.
It would have saved you all the hassle you experienced.

Ryuzaki

boardzz wrote: »

Sorry to tell you but you had 14 days to return the laptop to Apple for a full refund no questions asked.
It would have saved you all the hassle you experienced.

I appreciate your input but this has already been mentioned. I realise this now but it's blatantly too late. Thanks anyway though!

dudara

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah I had a look and I didn't see it but it was late last night and I was quite tired so I'll have another look today when I get a break in college. I found a WEEE number or something though which showed they were registered in Ireland and another poster on page 2 found out that it was an Irish entity I was dealing with so it looks like I'll now be going from there!

If the invoice doesn't have a VAT number listed, then it is not a valid invoice for VAT purposes under EU legislation.

Just because the company has an Irish WEEE and Irish VAT registration doesn't mean they are Irish based. But it does give you information.

Ryuzaki

dudara wrote: »

If the invoice doesn't have a VAT number listed, then it is not a valid invoice for VAT purposes under EU legislation.

Just because the company has an Irish WEEE and Irish VAT registration doesn't mean they are Irish based. But it does give you information.

I appreciate this. If I get time I'll screenshot it and omit my personal details. Thanks for the heads up though

Paulw

Apple have a large installation down in Cork.

Also, on the CRO website you can find Apple Operations and Apple Retail registered addresses in Cork.

Time

I've actually taken the SCC route against Apple here in Ireland before and irregardless of what other people are saying, you 100 % can sue them here.

All this stuff of them being an American company is rubbish. The company you purchased from is registered and based in Ireland and Irish Law applies.

I have to say the amount of misinformation on both this thread and indeed this forum is worrying. Posters should really do their research before posting.

Dial Hard

Ryuzaki wrote:

The next morning he explains to me over the phone there is bad news. The company is established outside of EU jurisdiction and my Consumer Rights as an Irish citizen / EU member were irrelevant. He said I can try but it's all going to be at the companies discretion and it could just go nowhere. He told me the small claims court would be the best option, to go to the SCC in Cork. He briefly explained the process / idea of it and that I would pay €20 for a consultation and letter or something.

I passed this onto my sister who works for the CCPC as it's completely erroneous information if you bought the laptop in Ireland and she can't believe you were told this.

Can you maybe comfirm where you bought the laptop as your OP just says it was through college. Thanks.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Time wrote: »

I've actually taken the SCC route against Apple here in Ireland before and irregardless of what other people are saying, you 100 % can sue them here.

All this stuff of them being an American company is rubbish. The company you purchased from is registered and based in Ireland and Irish Law applies.

I have to say the amount of misinformation on both this thread and indeed this forum is worrying. Posters should really do their research before posting.

In fairness, I think the over-riding advice here has been that Apple do come under Irish legislation. The OP was told otherwise elsewhere.

Ryuzaki

Time wrote: »

I've actually taken the SCC route against Apple here in Ireland before and irregardless of what other people are saying, you 100 % can sue them here.

All this stuff of them being an American company is rubbish. The company you purchased from is registered and based in Ireland and Irish Law applies.

I have to say the amount of misinformation on both this thread and indeed this forum is worrying. Posters should really do their research before posting.

Oh wow really? Do you mind elaborating on it and explaining the whole experience and process of it to me and how it went? If needs be you could do so over PM and I'd be ever so grateful to hear about it.

I have done research and I don't mean to misinform, the idea is this is literally what I have been told from every party and the fact that you have had to point this out is exactly the point of this post. If I'm being told all of this you can only imagine the amount of people being told the same thing! This needs to be known and addressed.

Thank you so much for your time and reply though and I'd love to hear more!

Ryuzaki

Dial Hard wrote: »

I passed this onto my sister who works for the CCPC as it's completely erroneous information if you bought the laptop in Ireland and she can't believe you were told this.

Can you maybe comfirm where you bought the laptop as your OP just says it was through college. Thanks.

Yeah it's insane and this is why I posted. I think people need to understand I'm 19 years old and was 18 during most of this ordeal too. I'm only young and have little to no experience with this so if I was told by the company what I was told, I didn't know any better and hence me posting all this here right now.

I bought the Laptop from Apple Ireland (http://www.apple.com/ie/macbook-pro/) when I say through the college I meant I got an affiliate link that when clicked lets me purchase through the official Apple Store with discounts applied.

Thanks for your time and reply and I appreciate you taking this issue to your sister and providing her insight, it means a lot to me and I'm learning a ton! Thanks!