Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Village87

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Michael Fennelly’s performance versus Limerick vindicates my post from last week regarding midfield. It was not so much his physicality which people get carried away with, but more his positioning in front of the two half lines as required and not out on the side line that much either. Combine this with his drive to move the ball quickly out of the rucks, not always to the right target but more often than not it did open up the play either by his indiscriminate pull or his physical drive to burst away. He wasn’t there to win pucks out much, but more to mop up the mess from rucks. It is one solution to the midfield conundrum. However, he is just one man and only a short term solution to the overall midfield problem in Kilkenny. Who is the next great Kilkenny midfielder? As some people pointed out Paddy Deegan did very well on the ball, but his positioning and getting on the ball left a lot to be desired. The good news is that we have players that can be coached to be midfielders, but that takes time and if we believe in club at all, the most of that has to come from the club and therein lies the underlying issue for Kilkenny hurling at the moment.

The biggest win of the weekend has barely got a mention here or anywhere else and that is the Kilkenny Junior footballers winning the British Championship and qualifying for the All-Ireland semi-final versus Meath on 22 July in probably Nowlan Park. Many posters have noted the Kilkenny club hurling championship standard has been slipping over the last few years. Veteran Martin Comerford was the star of last year in a year when very few stood out consistently. Is it a coincidence that Kilkenny clubs have ignored their football responsibilities hugely in the same period of reducing quality in the hurling championship locally? More walk overs, less entries, both at adult and underage. Is there a definite link?

Hurling has moved on again, whether Kilkenny people like it or not. The average hurler playing around the middle of the field covers about 8km in an inter county match. Both Galway and Wexford both showed that the game is starting to copy football with wing backs poaching goals and even corner backs in Wexford’s case getting up the field to get scores. The game has moved on and Movement is the name of the game, not just the forwards as often portrayed by posters here. The hurling skills are the same and yes Kilkenny are good enough at the skills, but the actual position of corner forward or corner back is now gone once the ball is thrown in. (Yes it will cause fierce problems for a lot of club coaches who take off the corner forwards no matter what or where the issue is). In Kilkenny, clubs now have too many guys coaching club teams who are stuck in their ways. Some moving from club to club. The cone is like a pillar of worship, not only on the training ground but for the pre-match. I was disappointed to see Kilkenny minors had way more cones laid out for their warm up than their Dublin counterparts with their array of colourful cones, I was sure they were for the Dubs. The result of cones is that players train to target the ball at the cone (sorry player) standing at the cone. Maybe we could get moving cones. Too many club coaches from Under-14 to adult are either not experienced enough, not willing to embrace change or stuck in their ways. Many club coaches are doing it the way they were trained during the Celtic Tiger when cones were plentiful. The Tiger is gone but we must remember that when the Kilkenny club scene is strong, we produce top class inter county players. We need the clubs to change and modernise coaching (yet again)

The skills of movement and high fielding used in football are particularly necessary now in hurling as is the ability not to get pigeon holed into a corner back or corner forward. Even in the aftermath of the Limerick win, we had a poster blaming Cody (btw he’ll be delighted at getting blamed for a win) and not offering alternative Managements (still). The ultimate blame lies with the clubs and their coaches. The same clubs don’t want the responsibility of developing players. They complain about development squads who only have the players for less than a dozen sessions a year and forget they have all the players for about five times that amount and more. They stop players from playing Gaelic Football and wonder why they have no movement on the field and nobody prepared to jump high like Tommy Walsh used to do or Lee Chin (a dual player) did against Kilkenny. Instead we have lads who just put their hurl in the air and pray the ball hits the hurl. Even the great Kilkenny team of the seventies were a powerful set of footballers who knew howo to attack the ball.

Another curse of the club training session is the portable juvenile goals. We haven’t thirty players so let’s shorten the pitch and play like twelve year olds. Then we wonder why we haven’t players who cannot deliver long pinpoint passes to a moving colleague and a quality ball that a forward might enjoy and conversely we have players who love to give short 10 yard tippy tappy bounce along the ground passes, many of them across the field, some even backwards. It’s awful stuff when transported to the inter county game.

Rather than focussing on the issues of the county team, why not go down to your club, count the cones, look at the juvenile goals and watch the movement and the high fielding on the shortened pitch in the match, if there is even a match in the session. See for yourself if what I am saying is true or is your club one of the exceptions. Then walk over to the coach and ask him… Why?

Like everyone else, I was happy with last night. It’s a work in progress. The Leinster results of our Under-21’s and Minors show talks of Kilkenny demise are well exaggerated. But patience is needed to carry it through to senior again. It is not a given that we will win All-Ireland seniors every year, but we will be competitive. My only disappointments were the lack of goal creation against a team of 14 players that we were obviously better than and still no sign of midfield dominance. Pat Lyng spent a lot of time out on the sideline. Scanlon scored lovely points in space but little or nothing was won in the tight. Wexford won a lot of breaking ball in the middle, especially their number 8. But then again it confirms what I have been saying.

Very interesting post and definite truth in it. Footballers are alway thinking of how to get on the ball.

dubcat51

I coach a dublin camogie squad young age.alot of the drills we do are football drills modified for hurling.however the 5 skils of hurling coupled wirh a will to win (give your all)are still the basis for this great game.clares game under davy was football in a hurling format.retain possesion and come of the shoulder.

blue note

dubcat51 wrote:

I coach a dublin camogie squad young age.alot of the drills we do are football drills modified for hurling.however the 5 skils of hurling coupled wirh a will to win (give your all)are still the basis for this great game.clares game under davy was football in a hurling format.retain possesion and come of the shoulder.

What are the 5 skills of hurling? There are far more than 5 skills I haven't got!

dubcat51

blue note wrote: »

What are the 5 skills of hurling? There are far more than 5 skills I haven't got!

Lifting catching hooking blocking and striking.maybe to play for waterford you have to be able to run back into your own half from corner forward and know how to play with 1 sweeper or more.

Realt Dearg Sec

And the five skills of football, pulling, dragging, bunching, fighting, and weight lifting.

dubcat51

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

And the five skills of football, pulling, dragging, bunching, fighting, and weight lifting.

Wont disagree with that.

blackcard

There is a lot to like about Richie Leahy, good touch, won his own ball in the air, good speed and he has confidence also. Jason Cleere played well also. It was refreshing to see him and others delivering good ball into the forwards albeit they were against 14 men. I would like to see Conor Delaney get a run at full back in the league next year with a half back line of Padraig Walsh, Jason Cleere and Buckley with Fogarty back in midfield.
Darren Mullen is a good prospect also. Is there anyone else besides Mullen and Leahy who are eligible for u21 next year? I am a lot more optimistic about the future after the last few days.

brookville

blackcard wrote: »

There is a lot to like about Richie Leahy, good touch, won his own ball in the air, good speed and he has confidence also. Jason Cleere played well also. It was refreshing to see him and others delivering good ball into the forwards albeit they were against 14 men. I would like to see Conor Delaney get a run at full back in the league next year with a half back line of Padraig Walsh, Jason Cleere and Buckley with Fogarty back in midfield.
Darren Mullen is a good prospect also. Is there anyone else besides Mullen and Leahy who are eligible for u21 next year? I am a lot more optimistic about the future after the last few days.

Mullen,coady,tommy walsh,donnelly as far as I know,throw in conor doheny who's injured,Andy gaffney and adrian mullen,conor hennesy,we should be decent next year the minor team in 15 were very unlucky to lose the semi final replay to galway

amber69

brookville wrote: »

Mullen,coady,tommy walsh,donnelly as far as I know,throw in conor doheny who's injured,Andy gaffney and adrian mullen,conor hennesy,we should be decent next year the minor team in 15 were very unlucky to lose the semi final replay to galway

They were robbed. 2 square balls I think

citykat

amber69 wrote: »

brookville wrote: »

Mullen,coady,tommy walsh,donnelly as far as I know,throw in conor doheny who's injured,Andy gaffney and adrian mullen,conor hennesy,we should be decent next year the minor team in 15 were very unlucky to lose the semi final replay to galway

They were robbed. 2 square balls I think

Iirc Galway scored a goal from a blatant sq ball with a minute to go. We were winning by a pt at the time. If ever a decision screamed **** you Kilkenny, that was one.

dastardly00

I'm guessing it'll be tomorrow night when the team is named?

brookville

dastardly00 wrote: »

I'm guessing it'll be tomorrow night when the team is named?

Yea same time as last week.they could just name the same team as last week and possibly make a few changes on the day.I'd like to see joyce starting

mountgomery burns

citykat wrote: »

Iirc Galway scored a goal from a blatant sq ball with a minute to go. We were winning by a pt at the time. If ever a decision screamed **** you Kilkenny, that was one.

Yeah, I was actually at the rest of Ireland meeting the week before where it was decided that the sponsored referee would do everything he could to try and do a bunch of 17 years olds out of a win. Glad he came through for us

KevIRL

1. Stephen O'Keeffe (Ballygunner)
2. Shane Fives (Tourin)
3. Barry Coughlan (Ballygunner)
4. Noel Connors (Passage)
5. Tadhg de Burca (Clashmore / Kinsalebeg)
6. Austin Gleeson (Mount Sion)
7. Philip Mahony (Ballygunner)
8. Jamie Barron (Fourmilewater)
9. Conor Gleeson (Fourmilewater)
10. Kevin Moran (De La Salle)
11. Pauric Mahony (Ballygunner)
12. Jake Dillon (De La Salle)
13. Shane Bennett (Ballysaggart)
14. Michael Walsh (Stradbally)
15. Darragh Fives (Tourin)

Waterford team

JimTreacy

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Yeah, I was actually at the rest of Ireland meeting the week before where it was decided that the sponsored referee would do everything he could to try and do a bunch of 17 years olds out of a win. Glad he came through for us

is it Ger Loughnane talking tell the truth siege mentality.

citykat

mountgomery burns wrote: »

citykat wrote: »

Iirc Galway scored a goal from a blatant sq ball with a minute to go. We were winning by a pt at the time. If ever a decision screamed **** you Kilkenny, that was one.

Yeah, I was actually at the rest of Ireland meeting the week before where it was decided that the sponsored referee would do everything he could to try and do a bunch of 17 years olds out of a win. Glad he came through for us

Ah Montie me old pal. You'll be watching Saturday I suspect though probably through the fingers lest you see too much of the pug ugly mongrel brand of hurling McGrath has bred for the occasion. No doubt there'll be a blue and white fist pump/badge kiss to gee up the massses. To coin a phrase, I just loves me county.

mountgomery burns

I'll be the fella handing the brown envelope to James Owens after the match when ye're inevitably robbed, grinning at all the boo boys in the stand.

usualstripes

Are we going to see the team that finished Saturday evening start this Saturday. To combat waterfords running will we see a few changes?

Murphy
Murphy
Padraig
Joe lyng
Fogarty
Buckley
Joyce
M Fennelly
Deegan
Lester
Walter
TJ
Richie hogan
Colin
Kelly


Would like to see joyce half back along with cleere on the other side moving Fogarty to the middle with fennelly.
I know leahy won't start but he deserves a shot.

JimTreacy

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I'll be the fella handing the brown envelope to James Owens after the match when ye're inevitably robbed, grinning at all the boo boys in the stand.

Hold on Dan is the only man that makes a fool of himself when he runs on to the field grinning his stylish base ball hat as he thinks so please don't let yourself down think of your family.

Village87

usualstripes wrote: »

Are we going to see the team that finished Saturday evening start this Saturday. To combat waterfords running will we see a few changes?

Murphy
Murphy
Padraig
Joe lyng
Fogarty
Buckley
Joyce
M Fennelly
Deegan
Lester
Walter
TJ
Richie hogan
Colin
Kelly


Would like to see joyce half back along with cleere on the other side moving Fogarty to the middle with fennelly.
I know leahy won't start but he deserves a shot.

Conor Fogarty could lose out if Joyce returns with Padraig Walsh wing back

greenspurs

The poor auld Blaa's having meltdowns over their team !!

#McGrathIn #McGrathOut

brookville

Village87 wrote: »

Conor Fogarty could lose out if Joyce returns with Padraig Walsh wing back

I don't think he'll move padraig out although I know he played up front against wexford but I thought he brought composure to the fb line last week and maybe helped in murphy having his best game of the year granted this will be a step up from last week.I'd prefer to have joyce because he offers more with strength and this will be extremely physical.
I do reckon he'll have to spring a suprise tomorrow evening maybe he could spring someone like john joe.

Toblerone1978

Hi all.  I'm looking for one ticket for the Old Stand for the game tomorrow. I'd appreciate if anyone could assist me with this.

Cornerback1

Waterford will try and dominate the skies in the half forward line.

We'll need to dominate there.

Village87

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Waterford will try and dominate the skies in the half forward line.

We'll need to dominate there.

Buckley good in the air, Joe Lyng is fine, joyce is good. P Walsh is very good, Fogarty not the best there, maybe he better out midfield Deegan and Lester Ryan will feel hard done so if he moves out

citykat

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I'll be the fella handing the brown envelope to James Owens after the match when ye're inevitably robbed, grinning at all the boo boys in the stand.

He doesn't owe ye anything that's for sure. He did his best for ye 4 yrs ago blowing Ruth as it sailed over the bar and ye still couldn't get it over the line.

mountgomery burns

I see you've done your best to dispell my insinuation that you have a fixation with referees...

blackcard

brookville wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

There is a lot to like about Richie Leahy, good touch, won his own ball in the air, good speed and he has confidence also. Jason Cleere played well also. It was refreshing to see him and others delivering good ball into the forwards albeit they were against 14 men. I would like to see Conor Delaney get a run at full back in the league next year with a half back line of Padraig Walsh, Jason Cleere and Buckley with Fogarty back in midfield.
Darren Mullen is a good prospect also. Is there anyone else besides Mullen and Leahy who are eligible for u21 next year? I am a lot more optimistic about the future after the last few days.

Mullen,coady,tommy walsh,donnelly as far as I know,throw in conor doheny who's injured,Andy gaffney and adrian mullen,conor hennesy,we should be decent next year the minor team in 15 were very unlucky to lose the semi final replay to galway

Just checked and Tadgh ODwyer is another from that 2015 minor team, he has being playing senior for James Stephens this year. Joey Cuddihy had made appearances for Ballyhale also but not sure whether he has trained on. Darragh Joyce, is he out of the picture?

amber69

Darragh Joyce, is he out of the picture?[/quote]

Didn't he head off to play Aussie rules

Irish Beef

blackcard wrote: »

Just checked and Tadgh ODwyer is another from that 2015 minor team, he has being playing senior for James Stephens this year. Joey Cuddihy had made appearances for Ballyhale also but not sure whether he has trained on. Darragh Joyce, is he out of the picture?

Ya Darragh is playing Footie down in Australia, some loss, he was absolutely flying it for the Rower near the back end of last year before he went.