Where would you go next...

Leonard Hofstadter

Cyrus wrote: »

Believe it or not there is an app that can tell you where to fast charge if taking a long trip.

But I agree if you don't have a charge point at home an EV would be a hassle.

But that still means I have to waste at least half an hour of my time en route, something I don't have to do with a petrol or diesel car.

Another thing I have noticed is when people say oh the range is fine or the times involved aren't that long is the rapid charging is only between 10 and 80%. So you're only able to add 70% of the claimed range in the half an hour best case scenario.

For the i4 BMW claims the best you can do is get 120 km in 10 minutes, so that means to do Dublin to Cork you need to spend at least 25 minutes re charging it, just to go one way! With ICE there is no forward planning whatsoever required, you just fill it, and then you use five minutes of your time to fill it again whenever you're low on fuel. Even if you have a big V8 or V12 you can still get 500 km easily on a motorway. I can get 650 km at motorway speeds without too much effort but if I'm really careful, I can get 700 km and I once got 745 km and still had a gallon of fuel to spare! You don't have to worry about rapid chargers or having the battery in the right range, or stopping, or any of that sort of craic.

I accept that if you have a wall box it is much easier and the compromises are far less, but many people don't have, and won't have that option.

I certainly see the merit in EVs as second cars for just being used around town (you can't exactly exploit the fun of a nice sounding engine after all and it's not exactly the kind of driving that is very kind to a combustion engine) and in luxury cars, where the silence is a distinct advantage and nobody buys a luxury car for the handling so I'm not that bothered by the weight penalty there. But for the reasons I mentioned abovd, I think ICE is still a much better option for most people.

A PHEV if you use them right will give you the cheap running costs and silence of an EV around town but the sheer convenience of a petrol engine for the longer journeys, they make a lot more sense to me for low cost or low emissions motoring.

User1998

Nobody drives 800km a day, and those who drive long distances would usually take a 30 minute break anyway so charging might not even effect their journey

And most people don’t care about the sound of their engines either, if anything they want them to be quiet.

Most people drive 10km to 20km to work and back. If you have access to home charging an EV is great. You sound like you have never driven one.

EV should be the main car and ICE should be used as the long journey/second car

Leonard Hofstadter

User1998 wrote: »

Nobody drives 800km a day, and those who drive long distances would usually take a 30 minute break anyway so charging might not even effect their journey

And most people don’t care about the sound of their engines either, if anything they want them to be quiet.

Most people drive 10km to 20km to work and back. If you have access to home charging an EV is great. You sound like you have never driven one.

EV should be the main car and ICE should be used as the long journey/second car

Typical EV fanboy comments there, simply incapable of accepting that they don't work for many people in the real world, and blaming the driver for the fact the car doesn't fit the driver's needs. The car should suit the person's needs (especially considering the eye watering prices EVs go for compared to the ICE equivalent) not the other way around. By the way, I have driven a Model S so I know from direct experience as opposed to random internet hearsay they are so heavily compromised in build quality and functionality I simply don't know how people rave about them so much.

And why have two cars when one petrol car does everything I need it to?

maddness

User1998 wrote: »

Nobody drives 800km a day, and those who drive long distances would usually take a 30 minute break anyway so charging might not even effect their journey

And most people don’t care about the sound of their engines either, if anything they want them to be quiet.

Most people drive 10km to 20km to work and back. If you have access to home charging an EV is great. You sound like you have never driven one.

EV should be the main car and ICE should be used as the long journey/second car

Someone who is a petrol head really does care about the sound of their engine, in fact it’s particularly important.
Others want something new and shiny and couldn’t care less but hey each to their own.

Cyrus

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Typical EV fanboy comments there, simply incapable of accepting that they don't work for many people in the real world, and blaming the driver for the fact the car doesn't fit the driver's needs. The car should suit the person's needs (especially considering the eye watering prices EVs go for compared to the ICE equivalent) not the other way around. By the way, I have driven a Model S so I know from direct experience as opposed to random internet hearsay they are so heavily compromised in build quality and functionality I simply don't know how people rave about them so much.

And why have two cars when one petrol car does everything I need it to?

It doesn't work for your use case it does work for loads of people, anyone with their own drive and the majority of people who really only do 20 to 50km a day plus you don't need to go outside ze Germans anymore either!

User1998

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Typical EV fanboy comments there, simply incapable of accepting that they don't work for many people in the real world, and blaming the driver for the fact the car doesn't fit the driver's needs. The car should suit the person's needs (especially considering the eye watering prices EVs go for compared to the ICE equivalent) not the other way around. By the way, I have driven a Model S so I know from direct experience as opposed to random internet hearsay they are so heavily compromised in build quality and functionality I simply don't know how people rave about them so much.

And why have two cars when one petrol car does everything I need it to?

No need to get so defensive. I don’t even own an EV, I had two Golf GTE’s alright but never had a fully electric car. Will probably buy a 530e next.

I’m just saying all the things your ranting about probably 95% of people have no interest in, 800km range, engine noise, sporty ride/handling, etc. Most people just want something reliable and comfortable with low running costs. I know this is a motoring forum so many will disagree, but EV is a good choice for a lot of people, especially if theres a second car in the house for longer journeys. I wouldn’t be buying a 10 year old leaf or anything, but the likes of the new Volkswagen range is already proving very popular.

Obviously there are several cases where an EV doesn’t suit which I’m fully aware of

User1998

maddness wrote: »

Someone who is a petrol head really does care about the sound of their engine, in fact it’s particularly important.
Others want something new and shiny and couldn’t care less but hey each to their own.

I drive a 300 horsepower V6 so I’m well aware of that, but lets be honest the petrol head is a minority in this country

James Bond Junior

An EV or at the very least PHEV will be the next family car we buy in the bond household. It would suit our needs well and free up a bit of cash to fill my old 6cyl BMW and tax it for more than 3 months a year.

Our current family car is a V8 Hemi and petrol head or not, it is pointless. It drives us to and from work, a 18km round trip and not much else and manages to burn 50l a week doing so. Doesn't do anything an EV wouldn't do for us for 99% of our needs. Tesla are not uncommon in the home of petrol and the charging infrastructure is beginning to develop here. The Arabs see the writing is on the wall for oil. EV is here to stay so best to accept the evolution.

MetzgerMeister

User1998 wrote: »

I drive a 300 horsepower V6 so I’m well aware of that, but lets be honest the petrol head is a minority in this country

IMO the true petrol head has always been a minority here. The reekhead has taken over these days. Back in the early 2000's, the reekheads were all going around in Knorr Honda Civics, Imprezas, Lancers etc.

James Bond Junior

James Bond Junior wrote: »

An EV or at the very least PHEV will be the next family car we buy in the bond household. It would suit our needs well and free up a bit of cash..............

For low mileage drivers PHEV are a potential sweetspot for savings IMO for folk not spending a wedge on a new or nearly new yoke who don't want to drive a 7 to 10 year old Leaf.

Petrol and diesel is still far from prohibitively expensive here though, 90k kms a Sorento has cost €8675 at an average of 38mpg.

Shortly after I bought it a lad I was on a project with spent iirc much the same on a Kona and he did tiny miles.

I'm still doing the same ish miles but I don't need the load space of the Sorento going forward and EV prices are still off putting for me tbh. I'd be looking in the second hand market up to €30k ish and nothing EV jumps out.

Leonard Hofstadter

PHEV just makes so much more sense really, after all, as folks rightly point out, most journeys we do are nowhere near the range an EV battery requires so if you have one with a battery of at least 50 km, you could do your weekday commute to work or trip to the shops or whatever on that, but, and this is the thing, when you do need to do the long journeys, it's just like a petrol or diesel and no need to worry about charging or any of that. That's what's so appealing about them.

Like EVs though, they only make sense if you can charge them up at home, something many people can't do. And the cost differential can be huge compared to a standard petrol or diesel car. And there is the compromises in weight and boot space, a BMW 330e for example weighs 200 kilos more and loses 1/3 of the boot space compared to the standard 3 series. The M Sport cars don't come with sports suspension, either. But if you can accept those compromises, well I don't see any reason not to get one, especially when the cheapest 330e is €15,000 cheaper than an i4 eDrive40 (which as I mentioned before is really the fair comparison because the performance of this car is the same as the 30 models). OK I know it's not fair to compare a 3 series with a 4 series, but it is the closest comparison there is at present in the 3/4 series range for PHEV vs EV. Even if you drove the 330e in petrol only mode everywhere (which you're not going to with a battery that can do 60 km when fully charged), you're gonna be waiting a heck of a long time to get the savings of an i4 eDrive40 back, and then with a car that's a lot heavier than the already heavy 330e.

One thing is certain: the current low running costs of electric will not last much longer, just look at the UK, where the 5% VAT for charging an EV at fast chargers, etc, is going back up to their standard 20% rate.

As we tend to copy everything they do eventually you can be sure once enough people switch they'll seek to get that money back.

maddness

User1998 wrote: »

I drive a 300 horsepower V6 so I’m well aware of that, but lets be honest the petrol head is a minority in this country

Nice, what’s your car?

User1998

I’m driving a Range Rover Sport now but will probably sell it soon and get a 530e. I thought I wouldn’t mind going back to diesel but after driving petrols/hybrids for a while now I just can’t hack the diesels anymore

maddness

User1998 wrote: »

I’m driving a Range Rover Sport now but will probably sell it soon and get a 530e. I thought I wouldn’t mind going back to diesel but after driving petrols/hybrids for a while now I just can’t hack the diesels anymore

If a diesel Range Rover Sport is a petrol head car we may have a different opinion of the term!

User1998

Ah now I never said I was a petrol head, just that I’m aware of the wants/needs of a petrol head. The Range Rover is more of a work horse anyway. I have a mk1 Audi TT 3.2 as well which I really don’t drive enough

Cyrus

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

especially when the cheapest 330e is €15,000 cheaper than an i4 eDrive40 (which as I mentioned before is really the fair comparison because the performance of this car is the same as the 30 models).

are you comparing like with like there?

whats the spec difference between the cheapest 330e and the i4? whats the normal price difference between the equivalent 3 and 4 series?

maddness

User1998 wrote: »

Ah now I never said I was a petrol head, just that I’m aware of the wants/needs of a petrol head. The Range Rover is more of a work horse anyway. I have a mk1 Audi TT 3.2 as well which I really don’t drive enough

Lovely, now that makes a proper noise.

carsfan2

Cyrus wrote: »

are you comparing like with like there?

whats the spec difference between the cheapest 330e and the i4? whats the normal price difference between the equivalent 3 and 4 series?

The 4 series would normally have a price premium over 3 series alright and when you look on Carzone you can see most new 4 series either 20i or 20d are comfortably into the mid to high 60’s
With this in mind the i4 at a base price of 65k odd seems well priced and a no brainer compared to the ice equivalent.
I’m not saying it’s a cheap car which it isn’t but it’s not got a premium over the other models in the range.
The 330e has an advantage price wise at the moment as you currently get a further 5k off which reduces to 2500 next month if you keep it under 60k retail which it’s easy to do unless you add all the packages to it.
Whether the 330e will be any cheaper to run depends on your driving style and how much petrol you use but I can’t see electric being massively better for most users. In mixed driving I am filling up with petrol every 1500km and it costs about 55euro for a tank.
I actually enjoy having a combustion engine that I can rev out when the mood takes and having the engine noise etc. Even though I know it’s piped in and enhanced it adds to the fun. It’s also great to know that I can fill up with petrol handily if for some reason on a journey I need to and am not reliant on the public charging infrastructure.
Depreciation is probably going to be similar on both cars.

I predict the i4 will sell very well and I’ll definitely take a test drive but I’m not convinced there’s a financial benefit to it yet over 330e

carsfan2

carsfan2 wrote: »

......
......
..... In mixed driving I am filling up with petrol every 1500km and it costs about 55euro for a tank.
.......

How many times would the 12kWh battery be charged over that 1500km?
A charge is €2 ish unless you're on a smart metre presumably?

carsfan2

Augeo wrote: »

How many times would the 12kWh battery be charged over that 1500km?
A charge is €2 ish unless you're on a smart metre presumably?

I’ve no idea how many full charges I’ve done to be honest although I have had a new dual tariff meter fitted. I was just comparing to a fully electric. Spending 50 odd euro every few weeks on petrol in the context of a 65k plus car isn’t a lot and you would have some of this on electric costs in a full ev. anyway.

Apologies was just wondering.

To your point though, yesterday I mentioned 8k over 3 years in the context of 40k motors wasn't a lot, so I'd 100% agree with you.

carsfan2

Augeo wrote: »

Apologies was just wondering.

To your point though, yesterday I mentioned 8k over 3 years in the context of 40k motors wasn't a lot, so I'd 100% agree with you.

No bother
I probably should work out the charging costs but I’ve done what I can re tariffs to minimise them and just get on with it.

The fact that the i4 can potentially charge so quickly will be great going forward but only when there are enough high speed chargers in the country.

You can spec up the colours and wheels/trims of the i4 on the U.K. website but no prices for those that are interested.
Some nicer colours available than the 3 series.
Apparently the 3 series is getting the new dash and screens at the facelift which is spring/summer 2022.

Leonard Hofstadter

carsfan2 wrote: »

No bother
I probably should work out the charging costs but I’ve done what I can re tariffs to minimise them and just get on with it.

The fact that the i4 can potentially charge so quickly will be great going forward but only when there are enough high speed chargers in the country.

You can spec up the colours and wheels/trims of the i4 on the U.K. website but no prices for those that are interested.
Some nicer colours available than the 3 series.
Apparently the 3 series is getting the new dash and screens at the facelift which is spring/summer 2022.

Unfortunately, everything is getting the worse instrument binnacle and fewer buttons as facelifts / new models are rolled out. At least in the i4 the iDrive is still operated by buttons unlike the iX, which is haptic feedback.

Thankfully, the forthcoming G42 2 Coupé and the regular 4 GC will escape on both counts, well until the LCI is introduced anyway.

carsfan2

The famous(infamous?) ex BMW first snapper rocks blue 440i gran coupe is back for sale in Morissons again.
44k and 17000 km.
I reckon it must be getting used by a staff member.

MetzgerMeister

carsfan2 wrote: »

The famous(infamous?) ex BMW first snapper rocks blue 440i gran coupe is back for sale in Morissons again.
44k and 17000 km.
I reckon it must be getting used by a staff member.

The picture of the instrument cluster actually shows 10,808 km. Unless they're using pics from when it was last for sale that's kind of off-putting.

maddness

carsfan2 wrote: »

The famous(infamous?) ex BMW first snapper rocks blue 440i gran coupe is back for sale in Morissons again.
44k and 17000 km.
I reckon it must be getting used by a staff member.

I really think the colour scheme really counts against it, I’d say a black, or dark metallic with the Oyster interior would be a lot more desirable.
In saying that if I had the money to buy it I’d get over the colour easily enough.

bazz26

I'd say they are just using stock photos from the first time they had it advertised. This is the 2nd or 3rd time they have it up for sale afaik.

Mooooo

Saw a 4 series on the road yday, the grill was blacked out, car was black as well. Was driving so only a short look but dunno did it look better or not. Initially I thought it was a jag at the front. Not massively keen on side profile either

Wailin

maddness wrote: »

I really think the colour scheme really counts against it, I’d say a black, or dark metallic with the Oyster interior would be a lot more desirable.
In saying that if I had the money to buy it I’d get over the colour easily enough.

I thought the same about the colour until I saw it in person. It is stunning, especially on a sunny day. Less so when its dull and then it looks almost green. Impressive looking car imo but a light interior would have been better definitely.

bazz26

The 440i that I inquired about and posted a few weeks back was really the one to get imo. Carbon Black with oyster interior and a bit better speced. It was 1k cheaper too.

Edit, the youtube video (which doesn't do it justice) is still online -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q90HQ9aK6I4