Where would you go next...

You can tell the Tesla folk all about the merits of the Beemer 6 cylinder engines etc.......... I'm sure they'll be enthralled

digiman

Anyone got any experience with an XC90 T8 hybrid? They are very well speced and look great I think. The infotainment doesn’t look great and they are also very close to end of life I’d say for the current model.

carsfan2

digiman wrote: »

Anyone got any experience with an XC90 T8 hybrid? They are very well speced and look great I think. The infotainment doesn’t look great and they are also very close to end of life I’d say for the current model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vEmlWqOEIY

Wouldn't be the best buy new I would say. Will be replaced in next year or two.

Leonard Hofstadter

The X5 45e strikes me as the best large SUV by far unless you need the extra seats of the Volvo. The interior is fabulous, it looks good outside, has a big engine and proper fuel tank, and more EV range than anything else by miles unless you consider the GLE diesel but still all the sheer damn convenience and range of a petrol or diesel. Relatively good value. Being a BMW, presumably it drives well (as large SUVs go).

MetzgerMeister

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

The X5 45e strikes me as the best large SUV by far unless you need the extra seats of the Volvo. The interior is fabulous, it looks good outside, has a big engine and proper fuel tank, and more EV range than anything else by miles unless you consider the GLE diesel but still all the sheer damn convenience and range of a petrol or diesel. Relatively good value. Being a BMW, presumably it drives well (as large SUVs go).

And don't forget it's a 6 cylinder petrol.

Are they not going to offer it with the extra seats?

Cyrus

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Are they not going to offer it with the extra seats?

i think the battery renders it impossible.

Leonard Hofstadter

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

And don't forget it's a 6 cylinder petrol.

Are they not going to offer it with the extra seats?

Well now that you mention it... !

Seriously though, it won't be coming with them because of packaging constraints and also because BMW says hardly anyone bothers with the 7 seat option on the rest of the range in any case.

ustari

digiman wrote: »

Anyone got any experience with an XC90 T8 hybrid? They are very well speced and look great I think. The infotainment doesn’t look great and they are also very close to end of life I’d say for the current model.

I have a 162 one, brought in from UK last August.

I really like it, personally prefer the interior and infotainment than the rivals of same age (Q7 and X5). The battery range is only 30km so it is a hybrid in name more than anything. Charging takes a few hours. The spec on the T8 as standard is much higher than the diesel and petrol equivalents (full digital display, aircon in rear and few other things).

If you are looking new then there is a new XC90 rumoured for next year. Agree that the current model is long in the tooth having come out in 2015 so may be best to wait if you are going new.

carsfan2

https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/10975/BMW-i4-EV-priced-from-63565-in-Ireland

BMW i4m50 might be what you're after Digiman?

digiman

carsfan2 wrote: »

https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/10975/BMW-i4-EV-priced-from-63565-in-Ireland

BMW i4m50 might be what you're after Digiman?

I think you could be right!

Still want to see how it looks in MSport, don’t like the blue accents on it at the minute. Also I don’t think there was been any interior shots. Pricing is not too bad either


Edit: just seen some more photos, looks cracking I think, need to see more of the interior but the blue MSport one looks class I think

MetzgerMeister

€78,315 is a very good price but the article doesn't say if that's before or after options. My guess is before options.

When you consider that a 520d with a good few options costs €105,000 I'd say the above price for the i4 M50 is starting price.

MetzgerMeister

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

€78,315 is a very good price but the article doesn't say if that's before or after options. My guess is before options...............

Yes, you are likely 100% correct.........
"When it goes on sale in November 2021, the Irish range will start with the BMW i4 eDrive40 Sport priced from €63,565 on-the-road, while the M Sport version using the same powertrain will be €65,405. If you want the performance of the i4 M50 then you'll be handing over €78,315."

All of the prices are no doubt the RRP and without any optional extras.

carsfan2

Augeo wrote: »

Yes, you are likely 100% correct.........
"When it goes on sale in November 2021, the Irish range will start with the BMW i4 eDrive40 Sport priced from €63,565 on-the-road, while the M Sport version using the same powertrain will be €65,405. If you want the performance of the i4 M50 then you'll be handing over €78,315."

All of the prices are no doubt the RRP and without any optional extras.

Yeah. The edrive 40 will be a 70k car once you’ve added a couple of option packs and the higher power one a 85/90k car I’d guess.
All cars are getting way more expensive though. Skoda enyaq with a few bits is a 60k car as is the vw id4 if you add toys.

Edit.
More pics and info


https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1830505

Leonard Hofstadter

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

€78,315 is a very good price but the article doesn't say if that's before or after options. My guess is before options.

When you consider that a 520d with a good few options costs €105,000 I'd say the above price for the i4 M50 is starting price.

It certainly is, but it can only do 510 km max on a charge, and it weights no less than 2,215 kg! Also the 535 bhp is only available for 10 seconds max, in reality it has 469 bhp, hardly an insignificant figure of course, but it's the kind of marketing that would make Tesla blush (the recently announced Model S that supposedly can hit 60 mph in less than 2 seconds actually can't, because they did it with a rolling start like in a drag race).

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, EVs are still way too compromised compared to petrol or diesel, it's not just the range, and the convenience, but they weigh so much so they simply can't have the handling of a standard car - the lower centre of gravity can only do so much. Also the fake electric sounds that Hans Zimmer has created just suck, with all the amazing sounding petrol engines BMW has created over the years I can't understand why they couldn't just fake one of those into the cabin (at least as an option); Audi and Ford have done it for the e-tron GT and Mustang Mach-E respectively where the fake noise is sort of like a V8 petrol.

A 330i (which is just 0.2 seconds to 100 slower than the eDrive40 despite the badging, and, not that it matters in Ireland in the slightest, a whole 60 km/h quicker at the top end) weighs no less than 525 kilos less, it is 1525 kg vs the 2050 kg of the i4 eDrive40!

That's a simply staggering amount, even the 330e with its plug in technology comes in at 1815 kg, so PHEV is still giving you a 235 kilo weight saving, and all the dynamic advantages that come with it.

How this is supposed to be more environmentally sustainable is beyond me but somehow Green types and EV fans pretend that somehow there is no pollution whatsoever in making a car and that weight doesn't matter at all.

I also dislike the curved twin screen nonsense and the loss of proper buttons for the bulk of the HVAC and radio functions; as well as touch screens being far more distracting to use in the real world, the proper dash with separate instrument binnacle looks better and more premium, not to mention being more driver focused like all BMWs were before. They should have done the same interior as the other G20 cars, especially as the regular 4 GC will have a proper dash and proper buttons like the other 3/4 series cars.

In spite of my negativity above, there really is an awful lot to like about the i4, it is an electric G20 after all so that's an excellent place to start, and the value of the M50 is very impressive as you mentioned. It's even a nice looking car which is unusual for a modern BMW (IMO), just the ugly front grille lets it down, but the side profile is much better resolved and it flows much more naturally into the rear of the car than the 4 Coupé and I like the return of E39 style door handles.

The i4 undoubtedly shows how far EVs have come in the past few years - but also just how far they still have to go to be a proper alternative to petrol or diesel.

Nonetheless, you can be sure it will prove to be a massive success for them, and when you consider that the only real alternative if you've already decided to go down the EV road is the Tesla Model 3, you just know the i4 will absolutely blow it out of the water and they'll get some sales back from the cult of Elon with it.

carsfan2

Looking at the interior pictures of i4 and iX it seems that they have gotten rid of the physical buttons for a/c , heated seats and the “shortcut” buttons that could be set for various functions.
That’s a big backward step in my view.

Leonard Hofstadter

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

.........................

How this is supposed to be more environmentally sustainable is beyond me but somehow Green types and EV fans pretend that somehow there is no pollution whatsoever in making a car and that weight doesn't matter at all......................

I'm no EV fanboi but I don't think anyone pretends that. They might mention Zero tailpipe emissions but they are of course aware of the manufacturing impact.

I'd reckon the weight is negated by the inherent efficiency of an EV compared to an ICE powered vehicle tbh. As power generation moves away from coal etc that will only increase.

Cars will be made regardless of what powers them.......... folk like new things.

Cyrus

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

It certainly is, but it can only do 510 km max on a charge, and it weights no less than 2,215 kg!

whether it can actually do 510km on a full charge remains to be seen, but if it can does anyone need more range than that? very very very few people if we are being honest.

Harcrid

carsfan2 wrote: »

Looking at the interior pictures of i4 and iX it seems that they have gotten rid of the physical buttons for a/c , heated seats and the “shortcut” buttons that could be set for various functions.
That’s a big backward step in my view.

This is my biggest bug bear on a lot of new cars, the removal of actual buttons and moving the functions to the screen. Maybe I am old fashioned but I prefer having a button to press or twist and it always feels more ergonomic (if not safer) to me this way.

bazz26

Another take on the 128ti:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-XvwqTopZE

carsfan2

carsfan2 wrote: »

Looking at the interior pictures of i4 and iX it seems that they have gotten rid of the physical buttons for a/c , heated seats and the “shortcut” buttons that could be set for various functions.
That’s a big backward step in my view.

Not sure how it could be described as a backward step because such a thing never existed before. Some people may not like it, I love it in my Leon, but that doesn't make it a backwards step :pac:

MetzgerMeister

Harcrid wrote: »

This is my biggest bug bear on a lot of new cars, the removal of actual buttons and moving the functions to the screen. Maybe I am old fashioned but I prefer having a button to press or twist and it always feels more ergonomic (if not safer) to me this way.

Much safer to have actual buttons looking at you in my opinion because you don't have to go through menus and sub-menus which all takes your focus away from driving.

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

Another take on the 128ti:..........

A tough listen....

Cyrus

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Much safer to have actual buttons looking at you in my opinion because you don't have to go through menus and sub-menus which all takes your focus away from driving.

in any car that i have had that had touch screen controls for air con etc there isnt any going through menus or submenus.

H3llR4iser

Cyrus wrote: »

in any car that i have had that had touch screen controls for air con etc there isnt any going through menus or submenus.

It's still a bad idea that doesn't belong in a road vehicle purely on ergonomic terms, but has made it because people like touchscreens and they sell.

I've experience with it firsthand - I've installed an Android head unit in my otherwise very analog Alfa 159; I don't care for the touchscreen, what I wanted was to be able to use Spotify etc. in the car. Yet, I have surprised myself as being distracted by the bloody thing more than once, as there's no way to "find" a control without looking, by just touching the faceplate. And this was not about "submenus", I was looking to change radio stations and stuff like that.

Leonard Hofstadter

Touch screens are incredibly distracting to use in the real world. Unfortunately electric cars tend to be the most prone to this nonsense, though of course more and more ICE cars are being inflicted with this, too.

I don't particularly like haptic feedback as again a button is much easier to use but at least it's always in the same place where to put your hand against, so they are less bad.

Nobody wants to go back to the olden days where cars were full of fiddly little buttons but stuff like iDrive just makes it all so easy and keeps a healthy balance of buttons without overdoing it. If you absolutely must do things the more distracting way, you can use the touch screen but at least BMW had the decency to still allow you to operate everything with physical buttons.

The only logical reason to conclude behind this unwelcome development is cost cutting, as iDrive 7 has been universally praised for how easy it is to use.

So who actually owns a car with everything touch screen, or are you all spouting nonsense on what you perceive to be the case from reviews? :rolleyes:

moleyv

The voice control works so well on iDrive 7 for things like temperature that I don’t think I would miss the buttons. I wouldn’t be using the touch screen.

Leonard Hofstadter

Cyrus wrote: »

whether it can actually do 510km on a full charge remains to be seen, but if it can does anyone need more range than that? very very very few people if we are being honest.

Last week I went from South Dublin to North Dublin and back, then to Cork, then Cork to Mitchelstown and back twice, a drive around Cork, and then back to Dublin. I did about 800 km.

There is nowhere for me to charge my car in Dublin as I am renting, and there is nowhere for me to charge in Cork.

If I had an EV I would have to find somewhere to charge it before I left Dublin, somewhere to charge it in Cork at least once and then find somewhere to charge it again in Dublin, even with rapid charging that's half an hour of my time 3-4 times (not to mention the time going to such a place in the first place), or two hours of my time (best case scenario) I could have left Dublin and be in Mitchelstown and have a few minutes to spare!

Or, I could do what I did, which is to use this funny liquid called petrol where I only had to fill the car once before leaving Dublin and once while in Cork (I still had 1/4 tank left when I filled it in Cork so I could have gone as far as Portlaoise if I really had to), which wasted 10 minutes of my time.

EVs just don't work for many folks no matter how much people want to pretend otherwise.

MarkN

An ID.4 would probably do that with one charge in the middle with temps this week.

Cyrus

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Last week I went from South Dublin to North Dublin and back, then to Cork, then Cork to Mitchelstown and back twice, a drive around Cork, and then back to Dublin. I did about 800 km.

There is nowhere for me to charge my car in Dublin as I am renting, and there is nowhere for me to charge in Cork.

If I had an EV I would have to find somewhere to charge it before I left Dublin, somewhere to charge it in Cork at least once and then find somewhere to charge it again in Dublin, even with rapid charging that's half an hour of my time 3-4 times (not to mention the time going to such a place in the first place), or two hours of my time (best case scenario) I could have left Dublin and be in Mitchelstown and have a few minutes to spare!

Or, I could do what I did, which is to use this funny liquid called petrol where I only had to fill the car once before leaving Dublin and once while in Cork (I still had 1/4 tank left when I filled it in Cork so I could have gone as far as Portlaoise if I really had to), which wasted 10 minutes of my time.

EVs just don't work for many folks no matter how much people want to pretend otherwise.

Believe it or not there is an app that can tell you where to fast charge if taking a long trip.

But I agree if you don't have a charge point at home an EV would be a hassle.