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M50 Speed limit?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    com1 wrote: »
    You do realize that the middle lane is also an overtaking lane?

    Strictly speaking there is no such thing as an overtaking lane (or a slow lane for that matter).

    We have traffic lanes, tram lanes, bus lanes, cycle lanes, acceleration and deceleration lanes, rightmost lanes etc, but no overtaking lanes!

    They are unofficially called that (even by official bodies) because of the laws that govern their use.

    GM228


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 bendzi


    your opinion doesn't come into it, if there is space n the left hand lane, that's where you should be.

    If you are driving faster then the lorries, what lane do you use? Left or middle?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    bendzi wrote:
    If you are driving faster then the lorries, what lane do you use? Left or middle?

    Its perfectly clear in the rules. You can use the middle lane if there is slower moving traffic in the left lane. Otherwise, keep left.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 bendzi


    Based on human behavior in the countries where average speed control has been introduced, showed that drivers want to be more careful then the speed check and drive slower then the limit ot the road. So there is little chance that you will get faster to the point!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    bendzi wrote:
    Based on human behavior in the countries where average speed control has been introduced, showed that drivers want to be more careful then the speed check and drive slower then the limit ot the road. So there is little chance that you will get faster to the point!


    I think it has been conclusively proven that traffic moving at a steady pace moves quicker than stop/go traffic. That is the purpose of average speed controls, not speed reduction for its own sake.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7 bendzi


    First Up wrote: »
    I think it has been conclusively proven that traffic moving at a steady pace moves quicker than stop/go traffic. That is the purpose of average speed controls, not speed reduction for its own sake.

    Anyway the average speed check is not the solution! Solution is to proactively teach drivers correct behaviors on the motorway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    bendzi wrote: »
    If you are driving faster then the lorries, what lane do you use? Left or middle?

    I said it quite clearly in the post you quoted,,,if there is space in the left lane, that's where you should be


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Everytime the M50 or N7 comes up it descends rapidly into a "I hate middle lane morons" vs "reality on the M50" debate.

    Bottom line is that during peak times (which is when the issues actually and only occur) ALL 3 lanes are pretty much fully occupied by traffic during which ALL lanes are (rightly!) used as driving lanes.

    Sure, you can certainly weave in and out between trucks and merging/leaving traffic if you wish, but I think you'll find yourself in the middle lane most of the time as well because of the short distances between exits on the most congested spot (exit 7 (N4) and 11 (Tallaght)) - not to mention it's a lot more stressful doing so!

    Add to that then the dawdlers who potter along at anywhere up to 20-30 km/h less than the limit when there's no good reason (eg: bad weather/poor visibility) to do so, and the trucks who elephant race each between 2 lanes for several km. Then you have the lane-weavers jumping between 3/4 lanes to get a car length ahead or cutting in front of others despite the gap being too small.

    I drive both the M50 and N7 daily and the above are far bigger issues than people sitting in the middle lane. I also don't see what the problem is.. Unless traffic is at a standstill I rarely have a problem and am rarely held up unnecessarily, but then I drive more to the conditions than blind adherence to the "rules" - and that's not me being a rebel, just that I think it's far more important to be aware of the surroundings and adjust accordingly than worrying about what lane to be in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Everytime the M50 or N7 comes up it descends rapidly into a "I hate middle lane morons" vs "reality on the M50" debate.

    Bottom line is that during peak times (which is when the issues actually and only occur) ALL 3 lanes are pretty much fully occupied by traffic during which ALL lanes are (rightly!) used as driving lanes.

    Sure, you can certainly weave in and out between trucks and merging/leaving traffic if you wish, but I think you'll find yourself in the middle lane most of the time as well because of the short distances between exits on the most congested spot (exit 7 (N4) and 11 (Tallaght)) - not to mention it's a lot more stressful doing so!

    Add to that then the dawdlers who potter along at anywhere up to 20-30 km/h less than the limit when there's no good reason (eg: bad weather/poor visibility) to do so, and the trucks who elephant race each between 2 lanes for several km. Then you have the lane-weavers jumping between 3/4 lanes to get a car length ahead or cutting in front of others despite the gap being too small.

    I drive both the M50 and N7 daily and the above are far bigger issues than people sitting in the middle lane. I also don't see what the problem is.. Unless traffic is at a standstill I rarely have a problem and am rarely held up unnecessarily, but then I drive more to the conditions than blind adherence to the "rules" - and that's not me being a rebel, just that I think it's far more important to be aware of the surroundings and adjust accordingly than worrying about what lane to be in.

    I drive both N7 and M50 most days as well, and the problem with middle lane morons are different on each.

    On the N7 the left hand lane often has long empty stretches, meaning the numpties in the middle lane are effectively reducing capacity to that of a two lane DC. Volumes haven't (yet) risen to M50 levels for most of it, so the left lane hasn't filled up yet.

    On the M50 at rush hour, the middle lane morons don't cause that much trouble when they are actually in the middle lane (like you say, the road is at capacity so all lanes are being used). The problem with them is the immediate dive for the middle lane as soon as they merge into the road, without waiting until they actually need to be there, and then later the sudden two lane swing as they realise they are nearly at their exit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭selous


    It's due to the short distance between exits. Simple way to improve m50:

    Step 1 - remove reversing around a corner in driving test and replace with motorway driving

    I always wondered why reversing around a 90* (blind) corner into oncoming traffic was in the driving test,
    Do you ever do it after the test?

    Motorway test would be a lot more beneficial, straight off the ramp into the middle lane hmmm, or down the filter in lane to the end and mooch in regardless of if there's a car in the driving lane beside it, but was free half way up the lane,


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    blackwhite wrote: »
    I drive both N7 and M50 most days as well, and the problem with middle lane morons are different on each.

    On the N7 the left hand lane often has long empty stretches, meaning the jump ties in e middle lane are effectively reducing capacity to that of a two lane DC. Volumes haven't (yet) risen to M50 levels for most of it, so the left lane hasn't filled up yet.

    On the M50 at rush hour, the middle lane morons don't cause that much trouble when they are actually in the middle lane (like you say, the road is at capacity so all lanes are being used). The problem with them is the immediate dive for the middle lane as soon as they merge into the road, without waiting until they actually need to be there, and then later the sudden two lane swing as they realise they are nearly at their exit.

    i agree with you there - not helped by some appalling merge/exit designs... eg: J10 (Ballymount) northbound merges onto the same 50/100m stretch that cars on the mainline are using to get to the N7. Then trying to get onto the N7 is fun as cars try to exit for the LUAS P&R or Newlands Cross.

    I find though that you can usually predict the "last second" types by the way that the car starts drifting left/right while they think about it which in turn allows you to react accordingly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭Nichard Dixon


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    i agree with you there - not helped by some appalling merge/exit designs... eg: J10 (Ballymount) northbound merges onto the same 50/100m stretch that cars on the mainline are using to get to the N7. Then trying to get onto the N7 is fun as cars try to exit for the LUAS P&R or Newlands Cross.

    I find though that you can usually predict the "last second" types by the way that the car starts drifting left/right while they think about it which in turn allows you to react accordingly.

    The Ballymount and N7 exits are too close together, they need to be integrated into one. Every effort should be made to prosecuted those who dive across lanes, perhaps by introducing solid white lines in the vicinity of exits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,502 ✭✭✭micks_address


    blackwhite wrote: »
    I drive both N7 and M50 most days as well, and the problem with middle lane morons are different on each.

    On the N7 the left hand lane often has long empty stretches, meaning the jump ties in e middle lane are effectively reducing capacity to that of a two lane DC. Volumes haven't (yet) risen to M50 levels for most of it, so the left lane hasn't filled up yet.

    On the M50 at rush hour, the middle lane morons don't cause that much trouble when they are actually in the middle lane (like you say, the road is at capacity so all lanes are being used). The problem with them is the immediate dive for the middle lane as soon as they merge into the road, without waiting until they actually need to be there, and then later the sudden two lane swing as they realise they are nearly at their exit.

    I'm on it twice a day and all lanes are usually full.. If people stuck to the left lane im not sure how it would help.. It can be frustrating when you have traffic doing 40kph in the overtaking lanes.. I've also seen plenty overtake me doing 140 kph while I'm zipping along at 100kph..

    A lot worse in my opinion is the late exiting at speed... Nearly every evening someone cuts on front of me exiting to the m1..

    People also give our about rubber neckers but it's actually really hard to ignore flashing lights etc on the other side.. Maybe if there was a really high barrier between the opposing directions might help :)

    The lucan entrance south bound is very dangerous.. Most mornings I see close calls there with either cars entering the motorway and crossing lanes to the right or vehicles moving across left to get ready for exiting at Red cow..

    No easy answers to it.. Maybe fixed camera's at the entrances and exits that were enforced would help


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,313 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    highdef wrote: »
    So basically the limit is low to facilitate morons????
    Realise that nearly half the population has below average intelligence. When you have 100,000+ using the road every day, there is scope for spectacularly sub-par behaviour.
    Yet morons are not actively dissuaded by the Gardai from being morons on the road!
    Active policing on busy motorways is not a safe or easy activity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭blackvalley


    Isn’t it strange that only really good drivers post on forums such as this? Full of comments about what “ other drivers “ do on the roads and how “ people “ need to learn the rules of the road.
    Come to think of it after forty years of driving I have never had a conversation with a bad driver. My friends, work colleagues, family regularly complain about the “other “drivers doing dangerous and stupid things but they themselves have never made a mistake.
    Leads me to wonder who the heck all the bad drivers out there are. Maybe I am just lucky that ALL MY acquaintances are really good drivers.: :D;):p


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Victor wrote:
    Active policing on busy motorways is not a safe or easy activity.


    Overhead cameras snapping those hogging the middle lane while the inside lane is empty would be safe, easy and profitable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    bendzi wrote:
    Anyway the average speed check is not the solution! Solution is to proactively teach drivers correct behaviors on the motorway.


    And enforce the laws with those who think they know better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    _Kaiser_ wrote:
    I drive both the M50 and N7 daily and the above are far bigger issues than people sitting in the middle lane. I also don't see what the problem is.. Unless traffic is at a standstill I rarely have a problem and am rarely held up unnecessarily, but then I drive more to the conditions than blind adherence to the "rules" - and that's not me being a rebel, just that I think it's far more important to be aware of the surroundings and adjust accordingly than worrying about what lane to be in.


    If you don't see what the problem is, your entitlement to a driving licence is questionable. And if you don't care what lane you are in, you are exactly the sort of gobdaw that has our roads as chaotic as they are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    First Up wrote: »
    If you don't see what the problem is, your entitlement to a driving licence is questionable. And if you don't care what lane you are in, you are exactly the sort of gobdaw that has our roads as chaotic as they are.

    If you say so... :rolleyes:

    Me I'll continue to make steady progress at an appropriate speed, neither being held up nor holding others up while leaving all the dawdlers, lane-weavers and "I'm doing it right" types behind :)

    The only types worse than the ones above are those who think it's their "duty" to teach/enforce the rules on others. Just drive on, pay attention to your own driving and your surrounding, while not causing any unnecessary problems for others and things would be much smoother!


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,313 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Folks, civility is needed.

    Moderator


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    _Kaiser_ wrote:
    The only types worse than the ones above are those who think it's their "duty" to teach/enforce the rules on others. Just drive on, pay attention to your own driving and your surrounding, while not causing any unnecessary problems for others and things would be much smoother!


    We all share the roads and all our behaviour impacts on others. Learning and observing the rules is your own responsibility. Enforcing them is the job of those so authorised and I'd love to see them do more of it because some people seem unable to accept their part of the bargain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭airuser


    I have now stopped using the M50, no traffic laws are being enforced. A few unmarked police cars or even marked cars would aid safety on that road. In my opinion it is a race track.

    Travelling from Cork to the airport I now go through the Park and out it does take time. But I am not being cut up by drivers who cut across lanes or thing the 2 and 3 lanes are theirs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    airuser wrote: »
    I have now stopped using the M50, no traffic laws are being enforced. A few unmarked police cars or even marked cars would aid safety on that road. In my opinion it is a race track.

    Travelling from Cork to the airport I now go through the Park and out it does take time. But I am not being cut up by drivers who cut across lanes or thing the 2 and 3 lanes are theirs.

    I wouldn't go THAT far.. yes it can be unruly and infuriating at times, but it's hardly Mad Max territory.

    Besides, I use the N40/N28 a fair bit too and it's not much better at times - especially the Mahon merge and the Douglas exit and the way people cut across merging traffic to get to the lane for the town/shopping centre... very like the M50N to N7S actually - part bad design, part bad driving.

    I find if you are just aware (of the eejits) and anticipating (potential muppetry - as I said above, the telltale of a sudden lane change is how they'll start drifting left/right first while they make up their mind!) and maintain a confident driving style it's usually grand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭deathtocaptcha


    airuser wrote: »
    I have now stopped using the M50, no traffic laws are being enforced. A few unmarked police cars or even marked cars would aid safety on that road. In my opinion it is a race track.

    Travelling from Cork to the airport I now go through the Park and out it does take time. But I am not being cut up by drivers who cut across lanes or thing the 2 and 3 lanes are theirs.

    It sounds like you're scared and intimidated by the prospect of using the m50... there's nothing to be scared of - it's a road like any other and if you have a full driver's licence you're as qualified as anyone to be on it.

    If you worry about yourself your compliance with the rules of the road there'll be no problems.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,682 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    airuser wrote: »
    I have now stopped using the M50, no traffic laws are being enforced. A few unmarked police cars or even marked cars would aid safety on that road. In my opinion it is a race track.
    i'd love to see the effect of an unmarked car trying to pull someone over in the middle lane during rush hour. they'd hand responsibility for the road over from the NRA to NCP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    i'd love to see the effect of an unmarked car trying to pull someone over in the middle lane during rush hour. they'd hand responsibility for the road over from the NRA to NCP.

    Does that apply to all road offences during rush hour?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    airuser wrote: »
    Travelling from Cork to the airport I now go through the Park and out it does take time.
    You are doing it wrong. You need to head out to the Magic roundabout and up the hill...
    :D


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Variable speed limits are used with imo great success in Belfast.

    I work there regularly and having set speed limits means traffic moves, it's easier to merge as people can let you in etc

    They enforce it by having a PSNI car every few miles in the areas where it is enforced


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Stheno wrote: »
    Variable speed limits are used with imo great success in Belfast.

    I work there regularly and having set speed limits means traffic moves, it's easier to merge as people can let you in etc

    They enforce it by having a PSNI car every few miles in the areas where it is enforced

    Unfortunately replicating this here would involve An Garda Síochána enforcing rules. While I'm very much on the side of the Guards and don't wish to poke fun, management have serious questions to ask of themselves. There is almost zero Garda presence on the M50, and I travel it twice daily.

    Also, and TLDR because I've mentioned it here before (as well as directly to the NRA as it was then) - the keep left message needs to become the subject of a national campaign and appear on VMS. Beeping and flashing at lane hoggers to oblivious reactions has convinced me that the overwhelming majority of these idiots simply don't know they're doing something wrong.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    sdanseo wrote: »
    Unfortunately replicating this here would involve An Garda Síochána enforcing rules. While I'm very much on the side of the Guards and don't wish to poke fun, management have serious questions to ask of themselves. There is almost zero Garda presence on the M50, and I travel it twice daily.

    Also, and TLDR because I've mentioned it here before (as well as directly to the NRA as it was then) - the keep left message needs to become the subject of a national campaign and appear on VMS. Beeping and flashing at lane hoggers to oblivious reactions has convinced me that the overwhelming majority of these idiots simply don't know they're doing something wrong.

    Far better to have a couple of traffic corps car randomly on the route than 4-6 hours of closures due to an accident surely?

    That's all they do in Belfast, at some point with variable limits, you'll see the PSNI so everyone respects the limits.


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