5 main reasons for our improving economy none of which are Fine Gael or Labour

power101

Victor wrote: »

You promised us 5 reasons. 1, 2, 3 & 5 are essentially the same reason.

I would agree with you if the BOE hadn't reduced their interest rates to .25% and the FED hadn't reduced its interest rates to .5% at the same and yet the Euro falls to multi year lows against both of them. The dollar is now at its strongest in over 10 years and Sterling 8 years.

The bond purchases are a separate additional QE to lowered interest rates.

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Do you honestly think that large multinationals would invest in Ireland over every other developed country, if we did not make it attractive from a tax perspective? Despite what the IDA want us to believe, our universities are mediocre, infrastructure is abysmal and employee costs are crippling. We speak English? So what. Most of my working life is spent dealing with people, of which English is not their first language. Other than a couple of specific countries (Japan and India mainly) there is no communication problem. Everywhere speaks English nowadays.

At the end of the dat, indigenous Irish companies are not competing directly with multinationals for their Revenue. The markets are different, and even with a differential in effective tax rates, the Irish companies are paying one of the lowest rates worldwide. I remember when the Irish corporation tax rate was 32%. At that time the IDA was throwing cash at inward investors in the form of grants. At least with a low tax rate, all companies can benefit somewhat.

I would be very surprised if Apple lose the case. It would send a warning shot to potential inward investors that Ireland is not so business friendly, which is exactly what we don't want to happen.

Other countries do not have English as a native language in the eurozone. This is a major factor in their decisions.

It's a European decision not an Irish one. Three quarters of tax probes against Ireland by the EU have gone against Ireland. Odds are European will rule against it. It would be a warning shot from the EU that multinationals that base their sales in the EU need to pay the basic corporation tax rate after up to 5 years of a deal which is allowable. We're in a globalised world and in one of the most open economies in the world. To say that our indigenous companies never compete with multinationals is farcical.

Dob74

Victor wrote:

You promised us 5 reasons. 1, 2, 3 & 5 are essentially the same reason.

Not really. The US and the UK did this much earlier so that's why there economies recovered quicker from the financial meltdown.
On the US exchange is massive , working for a US multi national we have gone from maybe pulling out of Ireland. To massive expansion and it's the same in nearly multi nationals because our pay rates have dropped 25%.
The UK exchange rate affects mainly irish companies so it's a completely different part of the economy.

Another bonus is for irish shops , it had become much more expensive to go shopping in the US or UK.

Draghi has ended the economic stagnation in the euro zone. Sadly we appear to be making the same mistakes. Expensive housing, no investment in infrastructure. Dublin is bursting at the shemes. Feel sorry for anyone who has to commute in Dublin absolute disaster.

Weatherproof79

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The thing is, people need to recognise that the days of infinite housing developments & a small factory on every town are over.

Donegal is the oft used example of continued economic torpor but seems the most often in denial that its economic challenges are caused locally.... ie: urbanisation.

Urbanisation is the whole ball game.
Taking Donegal as an example, the biggest town, Letterkenny is the same size as Greystones.... the 2nd biggest town, Buncrana, at just 7,000 is genuinely as big as a Dublin housing estate.

No matter what a government can do... There is no inventive that will make a CEO look at Donegal's glorified villages and consider it viable for investment.

Donegal has one of the countrys highest populations, but they are scattered more than any other county.... its just not sustainable.
Donegal makes itself a tough case for investment.

The top 5 Settlements in Donegal account for 23% of its population.
A still rural, but more urbanised county like Wicklow, 50% of its population are in the top 5 settlements... much more sustainable.

Donegal has been consistently ignored no matter who is in government. You just said it's pointless to invest in and what can you do. Investment in other areas in the county is badly needed. A CEO investing or not investing doesn't have to be all and end all to completely ignore the county which it has been.

"Glorified villages and in denial" What a pompous. Letterkenny is a bigger town than Sligo and Derry city is 20 minutes away so it isn't the wilderness you try and portray it to be. It's not known as the forgotten County for nothing especially with attitudes like yours to reaffirm the notion.

Weatherproof79

Godge wrote: »

The biggest return on government investment in tourism over the last few years has been the Wild Atlantic Way. A small investment in signposting, branding and advertising has brought a lot of tourists to the region.

However, the Government doesn't build hotels, restaurants or other tourist attractions. The locals need to get up on their feet and do the hard work that other regions (think West Clare or West Cork) have done.

Oh give over. The locals have done plenty of hard work and it's totally insulting to insinuate they've done otherwise . There's plenty of hotels and restaurants with vacancies galore, just no demand thanks to no promotion or proper infrastructure . There isn't even a train in donegal for goodness sake. Lagging behind third world countries in that regard. No investment. No trains complete joke.

And build tourist attractions? Donegal is famed for its natural beauty and beaches why would it need to build them when it's full of them? For example we always hear about the cliffs of mohar they stand at 120m. Slieve league cliffs in donegal are five times the size at 600m but no one's heard of them. Such an ignorant lot on her laying in to donegal. It's ignored and isolated and the government doesn't give two flying beeps about it and previous governments didn't either. It's apparent you're all fine g supporters at least this thread made up my mind as to who not to vote for. Such ignorant judgemental inaccurate statements. A complete waste of time. Disgusted

Godge

Weatherproof79 wrote: »

Oh give over. The locals have done plenty of hard work and it's totally insulting to insinuate they've done otherwise . There's plenty of hotels and restaurants with vacancies galore, just no demand thanks to no promotion or proper infrastructure . There isn't even a train in donegal for goodness sake. Lagging behind third world countries in that regard. No investment. No trains complete joke.

And build tourist attractions? Donegal is famed for its natural beauty and beaches why would it need to build them when it's full of them? For example we always hear about the cliffs of mohar they stand at 120m. Slieve league cliffs in donegal are five times the size at 600m but no one's heard of them. Such an ignorant lot on her laying in to donegal. It's ignored and isolated and the government doesn't give two flying beeps about it and previous governments didn't either. It's apparent you're all fine g supporters at least this thread made up my mind as to who not to vote for. Such ignorant judgemental inaccurate statements. A complete waste of time. Disgusted

That is exactly what I mean. Take a trip to somewhere like West Cork and look at the infrastructure and tourist amenities put in place by locals. Sure, many of them got capital grants but it required locals to put costed business case proposals forward and back them with their own money.

Donegal thinks everyone else should do something for it rather than it helping itself.

Weatherproof79

Haha completely ignores everything. Didnt know what to say. Sums you up. Highlights one sentence that's it. You can't build natural wonders and it was about that as you knew. Typical fine gael man. Doesn't even give an example. Just complete arrogance and ignorance

shamrock2004

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

You just simply cannot be the fastest growing economy in the continent, for 2-3 years in a row by accident.

It's not an accident. Irish economy has always been an anglo-american driven economy. As mentioned in the opening post about the 2 currencies thriving since 2011, it's not down to chance but to econonics. FG / Labour don't deserve the credit they bestow upon themselves - the only thing they are good at is syphoning money out of the economy.

ancapailldorcha

Any more discussion of Donegal tourism will result in infractions/bans. This is the second mod warning on the subject.

Rightwing

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Some of the above points are true of other Euro countries, which are not showing Irish growth rates. However, Fine Gael and labour did not cause the growth rate, but neither have they done anything serious to prevent it. If they are tossed out at the election who do you propose replace them? FF probably wouldn't do much different now, but have made a mess in the past. SF and the other loopers certainly would kibosh the growth rate as they would actively pursue policies to do so.

I'm not so sure. Some of FF's policies if elected:

“Our first year priorities, which would involve an additional €107 million in spending, would include an upward revision of Rent Supplement caps of between five per cent and 15 per cent in areas of greatest pressure at a cost of €22 million; increasing lone parents’ supports by €33 million; reforming the Family Income Supplement (FIS) and replacing the ‘three day rule’ for job seekers,” he explained.
“Our longer term goals include reinstating the fuel allowance season to 32 weeks in recognition of the number of people suffering from fuel poverty. We would also extend Family Income Supplement to the self-employed and expand the Living Alone Allowance to €20 a week in recognition of the additional costs faced by those who live alone.”

Have they learnt anything? All of those areas should be cut if not axed altogether.

robp

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not so sure. Some of FF's policies if elected:

“Our first year priorities, which would involve an additional €107 million in spending, would include an upward revision of Rent Supplement caps of between five per cent and 15 per cent in areas of greatest pressure at a cost of €22 million; increasing lone parents’ supports by €33 million; reforming the Family Income Supplement (FIS) and replacing the ‘three day rule’ for job seekers,” he explained.
“Our longer term goals include reinstating the fuel allowance season to 32 weeks in recognition of the number of people suffering from fuel poverty. We would also extend Family Income Supplement to the self-employed and expand the Living Alone Allowance to €20 a week in recognition of the additional costs faced by those who live alone.”

Have they learnt anything? All of those areas should be cut if not axed altogether.

Generally speaking when intervention is felt to be necessary economists favour rent supplement over rent controls. So arguably increasing rent supplement is considerably more sensible than the current rent hike. Not sure about the others though.

Overall FF policy is close to FG/ Lab.

Rightwing

robp wrote: »

Generally speaking when intervention is felt to be necessary economists favour rent supplement over rent controls. So arguably increasing rent supplement is considerably more sensible than the current rent hike. Not sure about the others though.

Overall FF policy is close to FG/ Lab.

Economists usually get things wrong. Get 10 of them into a room and they can come up with 10 different solutions.

Rent control is a bad idea, rent supplement is another equally bad idea. Either way you are distorting the market.

I agree FF and Labour are much the same. Left orientated.

robp

Rightwing wrote: »

Economists usually get things wrong. Get 10 of them into a room and they can come up with 10 different solutions.

Rent control is a bad idea, rent supplement is another equally bad idea. Either way you are distorting the market.

I agree FF and Labour are much the same. Left orientated.

The difference between rent controls and rent supplements is that one subsidizes enterprise in the hope of encouraging it and the other artificially restricts it in the hope of encouraging it. Both flawed but at least one has a possibility of success.

Rightwing

robp wrote: »

The difference between rent controls and rent supplements is that one subsidizes enterprise in the hope of encouraging it and the other artificially restricts it in the hope of encouraging it. Both flawed but at least one has a possibility of success.

As far as I can see it, with either mechanism, the welfare/council punters will be doing better than many private renters. This is ludicrous.

Getting back on topic, the main reason the economy is doing well is the success of the multi nationals, they must now be hiring more at any rate the country has ever seen.

Villa05

Sleepy wrote:

As usual with Irish elections it's a case of the "least worst option" and that, unfortunately, means Fine Gael.

I would be more inclined to go with labour for a couple of major reasons.

They sacraficed alot of their own policies and possible voters by sticking with the program. They put the country's stabity before their interests

They were lambasted for the labour way or frankfurt way speech. In the end it turned out labour's way.
Money printing, zero % rates and an admission that the bank bail out was the most stupid thing done in world economic history. Framework in place for bail in's going forward

FG are doing everything they can to reinflate the property bubble. This comes at great cost to wider society and threatens another bust, we are in no position to endure another one

Villa05

JustTheOne wrote:

So all this talk from the opposition about siteserv or the fennelly report or enda exaggerating in Brussels doesn't really matter to people.

I wonder if people realised how much of the tax is (a) wasted one of the highest health budgets in Europe per head, yet the service is not fit for purpose
(B) plundered by private business with close links to political parties

Do people realise how much less tax they may be required to pay if we could root out corruption, cronyism and incompetence that has dogged irish politics since the foundation of the state

OMD

Villa05 wrote: »

Do people realise how much less tax they may be required to pay if we could root out corruption, cronyism and incompetence that has dogged irish politics since the foundation of the state

Well, you have the figure I assume so enlighten us.

nice_guy80

I haven't seen much difference in my take home pay.
Just a constant barrage of levies, charges and other stuff on products and services.

The fact that so many people were shown the door by way of emigration, masks all the unemployment figures imo.

There is a huge avalanche of home repossessions waiting to be started. I think it will be held off until after the next GE.

We could have undertaken a large home building program in the last 4 years to train skilled trademen, build badly needed social and family housing and generate some economic stimulus, but no. Let's ignore the huge issue of housing

Villa05

OMD wrote:

Well, you have the figure I assume so enlighten us.

Corruption, cronyism, and incompetence unfortunately do not publish financial accounts but let's start with the 60 billion bank bailout

Irish water say they are overstaffed by 1100. Why?

If the creation of irish water resulted in 1100, imagine the overstaffing that occurred with creation of the hse

Over 1000 quangos stuffed with politicians relatives, friends and campaigners.

Procurement of goods and services offer very poor value with many of the benefactors having close links to politicians

Insisting on paying the highest price medicines

.............. I could go on all night.

Sleepy

Villa05 wrote: »

I would be more inclined to go with labour for a couple of major reasons.

I'd tend to agree with them more on social issues (gay rights, decriminalisation / legalisation of soft drugs, repealing the fifth ammendment etc.) but I just couldn't trust them to prudently manage the economy or the public service whilst they're beholden to the unions.

Add Joan Burton's nasally whine and the party's continued support for noted misandrist Ivanna Bacik (and placing of her in the Seanad despite the electorate repeatedly telling her she wasn't wanted) and there's just too much I can't support.

Fine Gael are far too socially conservative for my liking and their relationship with Denis O' Brien is disturbing but, ultimately, they'll get my vote in the absence of another party who I can trust not to ruin the country's economy and land me out of work again.

OMD

Villa05 wrote: »

Corruption, cronyism, and incompetence unfortunately do not publish financial accounts but let's start with the 60 billion bank bailout

Irish water say they are overstaffed by 1100. Why?

If the creation of irish water resulted in 1100, imagine the overstaffing that occurred with creation of the hse

Over 1000 quangos stuffed with politicians relatives, friends and campaigners.

Procurement of goods and services offer very poor value with many of the benefactors having close links to politicians

Insisting on paying the highest price medicines

.............. I could go on all night.

So no actual figure then? How about an estimate then? Go on, try a fact.

macraignil

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd tend to agree with them more on social issues (gay rights, decriminalisation / legalisation of soft drugs, repealing the fifth ammendment etc.) but I just couldn't trust them to prudently manage the economy or the public service whilst they're beholden to the unions.

Add Joan Burton's nasally whine and the party's continued support for noted misandrist Ivanna Bacik (and placing of her in the Seanad despite the electorate repeatedly telling her she wasn't wanted) and there's just too much I can't support.

Fine Gael are far too socially conservative for my liking and their relationship with Denis O' Brien is disturbing but, ultimately, they'll get my vote in the absence of another party who I can trust not to ruin the country's economy and land me out of work again.

So FG in government when the bailout administrators were deciding on economic policy is enough to give them status as the only party not going to bankrupt the country?

Not sure I would agree with that. Even if a non FG government was elected what freedom would they be given to bankrupt the country? Isn't there still a bunch of civil servants who will try and balance the books?

Villa05

OMD wrote:

So no actual figure then? How about an estimate then? Go on, try a fact.

Is there anything in my post that you disagree with?
Do you think all of what I mentioned is wrong?
Do you think it's fine to waste taxpayer's money?

OMD

Villa05 wrote: »

Is there anything in my post that you disagree with?
Do you think all of what I mentioned is wrong?
Do you think it's fine to waste taxpayer's money?

You were spouting absolute crap. If you have figures for this waste due to corruption and cronyism then put it out and we can debate it.

gaius c

power101 wrote: »

1) ECB interest rates are at the lowest ever recorded and with some rates even gone negative. This leads to huge savings for companies and allows them extra cash for expansion and hiring. It also encourages spending of cash rather than saving as there is a much better return.

http://www.euribor-rates.eu/euribor-charts.asp

2) Sterling has strengthened against the Euro by 20% since 2011. This makes Irish products cheaper for UK buyers and as they are our largest export destination is has led to large increase in sales to the UK , tourists visiting from the UK and positive cross border trade from Northern Ireland.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=GBP&view=5Y

3) The Dollar has strengthened against the Euro by over 25% since 2011. This means it has become much cheaper for US companies to set up here and to purchase products from compared to the UK as Sterling has only reduced by 7% in the same time frame. It also means it is much cheaper for US tourists to visit and spend money here.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=USD&view=5Y#

4) The price of oil has fallen by 65% over the past two years. We are one of the most import dependent countries in Europe spending €6billion and having to import almost 90% of our fossil fuels . While some of this fall is offset by the rising Dollar there has still been a very significant saving of just under 50%. This means cheaper fuel prices and energy costs for consumers and businesses and again more money to spend in the Irish economy.
http://www.iiea.com/blogosphere/eu-energy-import-dependence
http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/crude-oil.aspx?timeframe=2y

5) The ECB started the first quantitative easing(Purchasing 60 billion in bonds per month) which is forcing investors out of bonds and into other investments for better returns. It also has the effect of lowering the cost of borrowing.

Any of of these would give a decent improvement to the Irish economy but all together they are supercharging it. None of these are in any way controlled by Fine Gael or Labour. They are completely outside influences and for them to suggest they have anything to do with the improving economy is a joke. The past four years have been mired by controversy after controversy by Fine Gael and Labour. They do not deserve any more time in charge.

You forgot big investment by the MNC's that coincidentally reduces their tax bill.

Godge

Villa05 wrote: »

Is there anything in my post that you disagree with?

All of it, because it is mostly urban myths and false conclusions.

Villa05 wrote: »

I
Do you think all of what I mentioned is wrong?

See above.

Villa05 wrote: »

I
Do you think it's fine to waste taxpayer's money?

Of course not, but some actual examples of waste backed up by links would be a helpful starting point for a discussion.

Zubeneschamali

Villa05 wrote: »

CIrish water say they are overstaffed by 1100. Why?

Do you seriously not know?

The whole reason for setting up Irish Water was that the local authorities were very inefficient and overstaffed. So, how do you get to an efficient single authority?

If you set it up with just the folks you need, then the unneeded folks are left with permanent pensionable jobs with the local authority and no work, and are a permanent problem for donkey's years.

So move them all to IW, put a bonus culture in place, award all the useless folks zero bonuses for ever and offer them redundancy every year.

See how Aer Lingus did it: horrible place to work for a number of years, brilliant experience on the CV as a HR person shedding staff.

Jim2007

Villa05 wrote: »

Irish water say they are overstaffed by 1100. Why?

Well if you took the time to actually read up on it you'd know! These are local government staff they inherited and are now preparing to lay off as part of the consolidation, it is in fact one of the intended benefits as it will result in a lower wage bill going forward as was intended.

Oh Dear, very long on opinion and very short on facts.... enough said.

golfwallah

Villa05 wrote: »

Corruption, cronyism, and incompetence unfortunately do not publish financial accounts but let's start with the 60 billion bank bailout

Irish water say they are overstaffed by 1100. Why?

If the creation of irish water resulted in 1100, imagine the overstaffing that occurred with creation of the hse

Over 1000 quangos stuffed with politicians relatives, friends and campaigners.

Procurement of goods and services offer very poor value with many of the benefactors having close links to politicians

Insisting on paying the highest price medicines

.............. I could go on all night.

I think you are being a tad hard as regards corruption. No, I agree, we're not perfect .... but then, is any country?

According to this Corruption Perceptions Index for 2014 by Transparency International, we're not so bad at 17th out of 175 countries .... so, we're really angels on the corruption charts compared to 158 other countries.

Unfortunately, our electoral system (multi seat proportional representation), strong cabinet system of government (dominated by the Economic Management Council), excessively strong political party whips and we ourselves all conspire to good old Irish political patronage and a very slow pace of change.

We are best at action (or should I say reaction), when we have little or no other choice in the face of looming catastrope, such as the banking crisis, and are fairly dominated by the big boys in Europe (makes a change from the big boys in Rome, and in London before that, I suppose).

Would like us to be a bit more independent minded at the highest level in the EU - but, then, we would have to think things through ourselves and have only ourselves to blame if and when things go wrong.

Another thing we've done well on (regardless of what political party is in power) is FDI. While government continues to spend more than it earns (borrowing to fund the deficit on day to day spending), most of our country's growth for quite a long time has been coming from this source.

JustTheOne

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I haven't seen much difference in my take home pay.
Just a constant barrage of levies, charges and other stuff on products and services.

The fact that so many people were shown the door by way of emigration, masks all the unemployment figures imo.

There is a huge avalanche of home repossessions waiting to be started. I think it will be held off until after the next GE.

We could have undertaken a large home building program in the last 4 years to train skilled trademen, build badly needed social and family housing and generate some economic stimulus, but no. Let's ignore the huge issue of housing

I think people including the government are afraid to start just building loads of houses like the last time.

Remember what happend then?

macraignil

JustTheOne wrote: »

I think people including the government are afraid to start just building loads of houses like the last time.

Remember what happend then?

I think the last time the council where I live was building houses my grandmother and granda were able to get a home on a mortgage rather than renting. That was around the end of the 80's. As far as I know most building since then was private sector and the price spike at the time of the financial crisis clearly showed they were not meeting demand.