France launches airstrike on ISIS stronghold of Raqqa

shaunn

French fighter jets launched their biggest raids in Syria to date targeting the Islamic State’s stronghold in Raqqa just two days after the group claimed coordinated attacks in Paris that killed more than 130 people, the defence ministry said. A defence official was quoted by Associated Press as saying the strikes were ‘massive’ and had destroyed two jihadi sites in Raqqa. In the aftermath of the attacks on Paris, the French President, François Hollande, said terrorists strikes were an “act of war” on France, “organised and planned from the outside”. France dropped 20 bombs on Islamic State jihadi training camp in revenge for Paris shootings. Less than 24 hours later of the Paris attacks, some 10 fighter jets pummeled the ISIS-held city of Raqqa with at least 20 bombs, according to the French defence ministry. Have a read here.. www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/france-launches-massive-airstrike-on-isis-stronghold-in-syria-after-paris-attack and here http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/france-drops-20-bombs-islamic-6838318

El Weirdo

shaunn wrote: »

French fighter jets launched their biggest raids in Syria to date targeting the Islamic State’s stronghold in Raqqa just two days after the group claimed coordinated attacks in Paris that killed more than 130 people, the defence ministry said. A defence official was quoted by Associated Press as saying the strikes were ‘massive’ and had destroyed two jihadi sites in Raqqa. In the aftermath of the attacks on Paris, the French President, François Hollande, said terrorists strikes were an “act of war” on France, “organised and planned from the outside”. France dropped 20 bombs on Islamic State jihadi training camp in revenge for Paris shootings. Less than 24 hours later of the Paris attacks, some 10 fighter jets pummeled the ISIS-held city of Raqqa with at least 20 bombs, according to the French defence ministry. Have a read here.. www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/france-launches-massive-airstrike-on-isis-stronghold-in-syria-after-paris-attack and here http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/france-drops-20-bombs-islamic-6838318

Wow. Cheers for the news.

Lights On

With all these ISIS threads popping up in after hours I'd almost welcome a new dole one at this stage

Atlantic Dawn

Why don't they just go in with helicopters and wipe out anything that moves? The airstrikes are rather time consuming.

TheBully

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why don't they just go in with helicopters and wipe out anything that moves? The airstrikes are rather time consuming.

I think UL find airstrikes are much more effective

Lights On

Lights On wrote: »

With all these ISIS threads popping up in after hours I'd almost welcome a new dole one at this stage

Lots of ISIS fighters on dole as HQ bombed.

Summer wind

The sooner this crowd of lunatics are shut down the better.

shaunn

+1 on that. The world is becoming a warzone, and WW3 is going to occur sooner or later if they're not stopped; but Francois Hollande stated that France are at war.

Fleawuss

Lights On wrote: »

With all these ISIS threads popping up in after hours I'd almost welcome a new dole one at this stage

I have the best of both worlds for you: residents of Al Raqqa the capital of the Caliphate are complaining that immigrants are taking all the jobs! Islamic State Shyteheads from Europe are getting all the jobs! Dole and IS. Win win?

LDN_Irish

They airstriked Raqqa last month too. They've done over 200 airstrikes on Iraq and Syria this year. I suppose they only really had surrender or more airstrikes/ground invasion as options. Probably won't make a dent in global jihadism but you can't have what's basically styled itself as a nation openly launching attacks on European countries now and then and not attack them.

shaunn

Paris attacks: France responds with airstrikes against Isis in Syria – live http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/16/paris-attacks-france-airstrikes-isis-raqqa-syria-live

Ace2007

shaunn wrote: »

+1 on that. The world is becoming a warzone, and WW3 is going to occur sooner or later if they're not stopped; but Francois Hollande stated that France are at war.

But isn't that what ISIS want, France and the other super powers now going all in guns blazing, which will inevitable mean innocent people will die, french etc won't give a sh!t, the result is more people with turn to the ISIS way of thinking.

Hollande said early on this was a war, when it was just an attack, Hollande can't protect his people, and they are causing more harm than good with the latest bombings.

Is this intelligence new, or is it just a revenge attack.

Let's eee how may people are reported dead from these bombings - how many children die.

shaunn

Ace2007 wrote: »

But isn't that what ISIS want, France and the other super powers now going all in guns blazing, which will inevitable mean innocent people will die, french etc won't give a sh!t, the result is more people with turn to the ISIS way of thinking.

Hollande said early on this was a war, when it was just an attack, Hollande can't protect his people, and they are causing more harm than good with the latest bombings.

Is this intelligence new, or is it just a revenge attack.

Let's eee how may people are reported dead from these bombings - how many children die.

True; that's the real problem underlying here. He's just making the matter worse and he will, no doubt if he hasn't already. This was only an attack, and now it's a war? It's true—François Hollande is not only a fraud, but a wall. Yes, he may be loved in France, or hated for that matter but he is giving France no advantages, especially now with the attacks of ISIS. He's not protecting them in any way, but making matters worse. :mad:

Dubl07

Daesh doesn't do diplomacy. Hollande is justified in authorising scorched earth in these circumstances.

SpaceSasqwatch

Lights On wrote: »

With all these ISIS threads popping up in after hours I'd almost welcome a new dole one at this stage

Well I signed off because Im going to Syria..is that good enough?:pac:
:pac:

yes there

And so begins the game of bomb tennis.
Not like they didnt anticipate this.

Mr. Incognito

Pretty stupid.

People bomb Paris so the French drop large bombs on Civilians.

Pretty much a rallying cry for ISIS.

So whats the reaction?

I would say nothing. ISIS came out of the vacuum of the Yanks overthrowing a government and walking out leaving ISIS to step into the vacuum fueled by radicals galvanised by the bombing.

The West can claim no moral superiority until it exhibits some. Killing civilians wont bring back the dead.

shaunn

Exactly—this is exactly what they anticipated and what they want. They want countries to begin to turn on each other; and of course World War Three will begin any day now.. as if it hasn't already. You turn on the news, read it on the internet or newspaper and it's ISIS and what they've done. The world has become a very cruel and sick place.

Fleawuss

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Killing civilians wont bring back the dead.

What, pray tell good sir, will?

Ace2007

Dubl07 wrote: »

Daesh doesn't do diplomacy. Hollande is justified in authorising scorched earth in these circumstances.

Tell me, when he 7/7 bombings happened, - did Tony Blair come straight out and say we are at war?

How many innocent lives in your opinion, are acceptable to die to go after these people?

Mr. Incognito

Fleawuss wrote: »

What, pray tell good sir, will?

Nothing.

They are dead.

Deal with it with stoic maturity and not petty fearmongering and further violence.

Fleawuss

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Nothing.

They are dead.

Deal with it with stoic maturity and not petty fearmongering and further violence.

You think President Hollande is attempting resurrection of the dead through bombing?

StewartGriffin

They should drop dizzy bombs. They spin everyone around really fast and then they won't know which way to face when they pray towards Mecca and Allah won't hear them anymore.

You're welcome Western Civilization.
:cool:

Cienciano

Summer wind wrote: »

The sooner this crowd of lunatics are shut down the better.

I know the french can be a bit arrogant, but that's taking it a bit far

Mr. Incognito

Fleawuss wrote: »

You think President Hollande is attempting resurrection of the dead through bombing?

Are you feeling okay? How do you get any of that from anything I said.

Your question, quite a stupid one was what will bring back the dead.

I said nothing will. Do you need a biology lesson in deadness. ( i wish there was a quotation for a Dr Cox accent )

Perhaps you may Jesus as rational belief doesnt appear to apply to you.

StewartGriffin

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Are you feeling okay? How do you get any of that from anything I said.

Your question, quite a stupid one was what will bring back the dead.

I said nothing will. Do you need a biology lesson in deadness. ( i wish there was a quotation for a Dr Cox accent )

Perhaps you may Jesus as rational belief doesnt appear to apply to you.

Sounds like someones had a half glass of sherry and is itching for a fight.

Fleawuss

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Are you feeling okay? How do you get any of that from anything I said.

Your question, quite a stupid one was what will bring back the dead.

I said nothing will. Do you need a biology lesson in deadness. ( i wish there was a quotation for a Dr Cox accent )

Perhaps you may Jesus as rational belief doesnt appear to apply to you.

But you said killing civilians won't bring back the dead. That makes it sound like that is what was intended by the bombing.

Why are you dragging Jesus into it? It's an Allah gig. Or mayb Jesus versus Allah.

Mr. Incognito

Fleawuss wrote: »

But you said killing civilians won't bring back the dead. That makes it sound like that is what was intended by the bombing.

Why are you dragging Jesus into it? It's an Allah gig. Or mayb Jesus versus Allah.

Context;
US and Allies back Iraq against Iran.
Iran wins. Invades Kuwait.
US and Allies invade Iraq. Withdraw. Sanctions kill millions aided by corrupt and brutal dictator.
Saudi Arabian terrorists plan and carry out 911.
US invades Afghanistan and Iraq? ? Why. Oh WMDs. We-Made-Des up.
US deposes Saddam. Instals puppet government, withdraws. Puppet government falls. ISIS (Sunni radicals created by 20 years of sanctions and bombings ) step in. These ****ers are super crazy. London, Madrid and Paris bombings.
Reaction Options;

1. Keep dropping bombs creating newer crazier suicide bombers. Ask Israel how that tactic's going...

2. Stop. Stop the cycle of violence. Stop dropping bombs on people, and calling them collateral damage. Stop dropping bombs on schools and calling them terrorist training camps. Stop feeding the fear-mongering and hate-whoring. Stop listening and cheering idiots and bigots who talk about bombing people and pretend that is justified, on any side. Nothing. Nothing ever justifies murder.

This has happened before in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Africa, and through recorded history when a colonial power swept in with breathtaking arrogance believing it was civilised, and right and rigeous and divine. Just stop. Every penny spent on bombs and guns and walls and hate could be spent on homelessness and addiction and clean water and sanitation and love, which is free.

Every war torn generation learns on the battlefield that both sides in every conflict are wrong. And their grandchildren forget until they learn again in the mud, in a war, for nothing except some other ****ers opinion.

Fleawuss

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Context;
US and Allies back Iraq against Iran.
Iran wins. Invades Kuwait.
US and Allies invade Iraq. Withdraw. Sanctions kill millions aided by corrupt and brutal dictator.
Saudi Arabian terrorists plan and carry out 911.
US invades Afghanistan and Iraq? ? Why. Oh WMDs. We-Made-Des up.
US deposes Saddam. Instals puppet government, withdraws. Puppet government falls. ISIS (Sunni radicals created by 20 years of sanctions and bombings ) step in. These ****ers are super crazy. London, Madrid and Paris bombings.
Reaction Options;

1. Keep dropping bombs creating newer crazier suicide bombers. Ask Israel how that tactic's going...

2. Stop. Stop the cycle of violence. Stop dropping bombs on people, and calling them collateral damage. Stop dropping bombs on schools and calling them terrorist training camps. Stop feeding the fear-mongering and hate-whoring. Stop listening and cheering idiots and bigots who talk about bombing people and pretend that is justified, on any side. Nothing. Nothing ever justifies murder.

This has happened before in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Africa, and through recorded history when a colonial power swept in with breathtaking arrogance believing it was civilised, and right and rigeous and divine. Just stop. Every penny spent on bombs and guns and walls and hate could be spent on homelessness and addiction and clean water and sanitation and love, which is free.

Every war torn generation learns on the battlefield that both sides in every conflict are wrong. And their grandchildren forget until they learn again in the mud, in a war, for nothing except some other ****ers opinion.

Please post to the Caliphate or deliver in person. Now what did I do with the resurrection recipe. Ah, some Hollandaise....:D

Lemming

Iran didn't invade Kuwait.

Samaris

In terms of innocent lives, it was confirmed with the hospitals in Raqqa that no civilians were wounded or killed.

All things considered, it was a pretty proportionate response. The place they bombed is also where American citizen Kayla Mueller (I hope I have her name right) was murdered by their people.

tastyt

No civilian casualties, a major training camp for evil murderers destroyed. Perfect outcome. Cue the bleeding heart outrage that believes that all ISIS really need is a big squishy hug.

gazzamc

Should have nuked the place.

Hammer89

StewartGriffin wrote: »

They should drop dizzy bombs. They spin everyone around really fast and then they won't know which way to face when they pray towards Mecca and Allah won't hear them anymore.

Or Jagerbombs. Operation Get ISIS Pissed.

StringerBell

Given everything we know about the Islamic State, continuing to slowly bleed it, through air strikes and proxy warfare, appears the best of bad military options. An invasion would more then likely result in victory in the short term, but who knows how bad another botched American invasion of the Middle East would be, IS grew in the vacuum created by the last botched military offensive in Iraq!

An invasion would be a fantastic recruitment video for Muslim extremists worldwide and would not solve the problem in the long run I feel, the Kurds and others on the ground fighting IS can (with support) stop the caliphate expanding, which is what it must do and every month that it does not expand it becomes less the conquering state of the Prophet and more just another Middle Eastern state that fails its people. Weakening it considerably till it eventually eats itself alive.

Yeah_Right

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Context;
US and Allies back Iraq against Iran.
Iran wins. Invades Kuwait.
US and Allies invade Iraq. Withdraw. Sanctions kill millions aided by corrupt and brutal dictator.
Saudi Arabian terrorists plan and carry out 911.
US invades Afghanistan and Iraq? ? Why. Oh WMDs. We-Made-Des up.
US deposes Saddam. Instals puppet government, withdraws. Puppet government falls. ISIS (Sunni radicals created by 20 years of sanctions and bombings ) step in. These ****ers are super crazy. London, Madrid and Paris bombings.
Reaction Options;

1. Keep dropping bombs creating newer crazier suicide bombers. Ask Israel how that tactic's going...

2. Stop. Stop the cycle of violence. Stop dropping bombs on people, and calling them collateral damage. Stop dropping bombs on schools and calling them terrorist training camps. Stop feeding the fear-mongering and hate-whoring. Stop listening and cheering idiots and bigots who talk about bombing people and pretend that is justified, on any side. Nothing. Nothing ever justifies murder.

This has happened before in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Africa, and through recorded history when a colonial power swept in with breathtaking arrogance believing it was civilised, and right and rigeous and divine. Just stop. Every penny spent on bombs and guns and walls and hate could be spent on homelessness and addiction and clean water and sanitation and love, which is free.

Every war torn generation learns on the battlefield that both sides in every conflict are wrong. And their grandchildren forget until they learn again in the mud, in a war, for nothing except some other ****ers opinion.

Do some research. Your timeline/facts are wrong.

enfant terrible

StringerBell wrote: »

Given everything we know about the Islamic State, continuing to slowly bleed it, through air strikes and proxy warfare, appears the best of bad military options. An invasion would more then likely result in victory in the short term, but who knows how bad another botched American invasion of the Middle East would be, IS grew in the vacuum created by the last botched military offensive in Iraq!

An invasion would be a fantastic recruitment video for Muslim extremists worldwide and would not solve the problem in the long run I feel, the Kurds and others on the ground fighting IS can (with support) stop the caliphate expanding, which is what it must do and every month that it does not expand it becomes less the conquering state of the Prophet and more just another Middle Eastern state that fails its people. Weakening it considerably till it eventually eats itself alive.

The boots on the ground will probably be Egyptian, Lebanese and Iraqi rather than American, British and French.

The public don't have the stomach for an invasion.

StringerBell

Not sure they will either though, I don't simply mean reclaiming the lands they lost (as they have in Sinjar) I mean driving them back and chasing them underground like cockroaches the same way Al-Queda work, thankfully they really don't get along or we would be facing an enemy like nothing seen before.

Properly contained, the Islamic State is likely to be its own undoing. No country is its ally, and its ideology ensures that this will remain the case. The land it controls, while expansive, is mostly uninhabited and poor. As it stagnates or slowly shrinks, its claim that it is the engine of God’s will and the agent of apocalypse will weaken, and fewer believers will arrive. And as more reports of misery within it leak out, radical Islamist movements elsewhere will be discredited: No one has tried harder to implement strict Sharia by violence. This is what it looks like.

Alexis Sanchez

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I would say nothing. ISIS came out of the vacuum of the Yanks overthrowing a government and walking out leaving ISIS to step into the vacuum fueled by radicals galvanised by the bombing.

ISIS existed in 1999, 4 years before the invasion of Iraq. It was founded as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, by a Jordanian man in Jordan, not Iraq. They entered Iraq before the anticipated invasion in 2003.

They then pledged their allegiance to Bin Laden in October 2004.

The thing is, Saddam probably wold have been removed anyway because the Arab Spring is a movement for democracy in the Arab world and Saddam had a lot of enemies in his own country, but he kept them in check through oppression and fear.

Iraq is just mess of a country:

• Shia Muslims make up 65% -70% of the Muslims in Iraq and they hated Saddam because he oppressed them.
• Sunni Muslims make up 20% - 25% and who knows how many of them side with Saddam secularism or fundamental Islam.
• Kurds in the north hated Saddam for well-documented reasons.

With all of the religious and ethnic division within Iraq, civil war would have broken out if his enemies banded together to remove him, and then his enemies would fight each other over age-old sectarian hated for one another, which has been happening since 2003. Unfortunately, it's very possible the NATO, or just America, would have got involved in Iraq in this hypothetical scenario for the same reasons why they invaded in March 2003.

Iraq should have never created in the first place when the British and the French were carving up the Ottoman Empire (which was previous caliphate, like ISIS and the Taliban). They grouped together two different sects of Islam that have despised each for centuries and the tension between them was exacerbated by Saddam oppression of the Shia.

It's Islam that created these caliphates, not the West. What ISIS are doing today isn't much different to what Muhammad done in the 7th century and Islam portrays Muhammad as the perfect Muslim.

Alexis Sanchez

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

ISIS (Sunni radicals created by 20 years of sanctions and bombings ) step in. These ****ers are super crazy. London, Madrid and Paris bombings.

This is false. Read my last post about the origin of ISIS.

Old Perry

An eye for an eye and the whole world will soon be blind.

Faugheen

Summer wind wrote: »

The sooner this crowd of lunatics are shut down the better.

Let's worry about Islamic State first :pac:

looksee

Who is funding Isis, the IS isn't surviving on trade and industry, so someone is pumping money into it? Sanctions against the support-states would be as effective as bombs.

TimeToShine

Dubl07 wrote: »

Daesh doesn't do diplomacy. Hollande is justified in authorising scorched earth in these circumstances.

Hollande, like presidents of all the Western countries, is just a puppet being advised behind the scenes by far more experienced people. You can rest assured this attack is a calculated move and not just a knee-jerk reaction from one man.

mattP

Have they given any estimation of how many people were killed?

smokingman

StringerBell wrote: »

Not sure they will either though, I don't simply mean reclaiming the lands they lost (as they have in Sinjar) I mean driving them back and chasing them underground like cockroaches the same way Al-Queda work, thankfully they really don't get along or we would be facing an enemy like nothing seen before.

Properly contained, the Islamic State is likely to be its own undoing. No country is its ally, and its ideology ensures that this will remain the case. The land it controls, while expansive, is mostly uninhabited and poor. As it stagnates or slowly shrinks, its claim that it is the engine of God’s will and the agent of apocalypse will weaken, and fewer believers will arrive. And as more reports of misery within it leak out, radical Islamist movements elsewhere will be discredited: No one has tried harder to implement strict Sharia by violence. This is what it looks like.

Wow, you're so insightful!
.....oh hang on, you're not..you're just copying and pasting from other people's work and trying to pass it off as your own to try and look smert... http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

the groutch

Will there be a minute's silence for the innocent civilians that are killed by these airstrikes?

smash

the groutch wrote: »

Will there be a minute's silence for the innocent civilians that are killed by these airstrikes?

Are there really any innocent civilians in the ISIS occupied territories though? I'm of the impression that they've already been killed by ISIS or have fled.

ISI are a cancer. Move in, take over and either assimilate or wipe out.

Royal Irish

Ace2007 wrote: »

How many innocent lives in your opinion, are acceptable to die to go after these people?

Its worth remembering that the attacks in Paris were not against political, military, or police targets. But were attacks on civilians at a sporting event, a music concert, and civilians out dining.

Raqqa is pretty much the capital of the Islamic state, and even though I would prefer not a single civilian is killed in these airstrikes, I will just see any killed as an unfortunate casualty of war against the most evil group of people since the Nazis.

But hopefully the airstrikes will only kill Islamic state fighters.

Jelle1880

Ace2007 wrote: »

But isn't that what ISIS want, France and the other super powers now going all in guns blazing, which will inevitable mean innocent people will die, french etc won't give a sh!t, the result is more people with turn to the ISIS way of thinking.

Hollande said early on this was a war, when it was just an attack, Hollande can't protect his people, and they are causing more harm than good with the latest bombings.

Is this intelligence new, or is it just a revenge attack.

The attacks were already planned by the coallition, it was just that after Paris they let France carry them out by itself under the French flag.

As for people joining ISIS due to this: I highly doubt that bombs will make them join ISIS. Maybe some of the rebels in the area, but not ISIS. Unless they already liked ISIS before these bombs fell, in which case they made a choice and can deal with the consequences.

StringerBell

smokingman wrote: »

Wow, you're so insightful!
.....oh hang on, you're not..you're just copying and pasting from other people's work and trying to pass it off as your own to try and look smert... http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Well, yes, at 4am I find copy/paste is a lot easier then having to type, I apologise for offending you. You might notice I included quotes in the other thread. Pretty sure I wrote most of the posts, until I got tired and took the easier option since they made the point quite well. Or had to respond to someone who was quoting from elsewhere to me

Its actually a great article, did you read it?