F1 2015: Round 18 Brazilian Grand Prix

Ghost Train

I did find the first half a bit boring but later found it bit more interesting. Watched a good bit of the onboard of Lewis and he was really pushing Rosberg. Lots of tension there. Didn't think Lewis was too bad today in the interviews

Frank Bullitt

Would this be worth watching at all lads?

HighLine

Gintonious wrote: »

Would this be worth watching at all lads?

No. Seriously. Look up Verstappen's pass on the outside of turn 1. This is the only highlight.

Zcott

Missed entire race, watched highlights, and even they were pretty dull.

AMKC

Myrddin wrote: »

Strange, I recall Alonso felt Petrov should have simply gotten out of his way in the final race of 2010. He went mental in the car when the race ended, waving like a prima donna because another racing driver wouldn't let him past (and I say that as an Alonso fan). Senna is lauded for his aggressive overtaking & hole-punching (forcing drivers to either yield to him or face a crash), something Lewis gets criticised for.

Ricciardo took several laps to get passed both Manor's during this race, so trying to follow/pass a car with equal performance to your own for 70+ laps must be incredibly frustrating. I wonder how Soccer or other sports would sound if players had mics on them for the whole thing...

I remember that Alonso just could not get passed no matter how hard he tried and Petrov was not going to make it easy for him either. Don,t think it done Petrov any good do. If he had of let Alonso passed he might have got a few more years maybe in the sport or maybe not. He done what he felt was right at the time. Where is he now do? Not in F1 anyway.

Myrddin

I didn't know they excluded Massa from the result...

Gru

Myrddin wrote: »

I didn't know they excluded Massa from the result...

Yup, apparently one of his tyres was too hot before the race started. Disqualified. Funny how the mercs escaped such a decision in Italy.

EDit

Yeah, that's weird. DC was saying during the commentary that the difference in temp strongly suggests something malfunctioned (vs foul play for some sort of advantage) so seems a bit harsh to disqualify

Slutmonkey57b

beanie10 wrote: »

Also hamilton is given a huge advantage by being in the best car by far. The sane cannot be said for Senna, Schumacher of Hakkinen. As Rossberg has provved 12 times- any tool in a Merc can win a race. Hamilton is just a slighltly sharper tool.
Rant over.

Ehhh.... What?
Senna was in the mp4/4, which but for a single retirement would have won every single race in the season, by far the most dominant car of all time. He also fluked a championship where Prost beat him due to the farcical way "championship" points were calculated.

Schumacher had by far the best car in 2002 and 2004, a teammate who wasn't allowed to race him, and all the cheating the combined political power of him and Ferrari could muster.

Hakkinen was in the fastest car in 98, but he's the only one who stacks up in your analogy.

Sunny Dayz

Gosh the Mercedes strategies are so see-through. They knew from the start of this season that Hamilton was their number 1 and he was their bid for the World Championship. Rosberg was only an afterthought, an accessory. Now that Hamilton had done his job, won his title and got Mercedes their title, Mercedes only THEN look at Rosberg. They let him get a few poles, win a few races, appease him, keep him happy. Rosberg then thinks he's the bees-knees cos he's now beating the World champion but Hamilton is just coasting through the final few races, the equivalent of work-to-rule really for him.
I'm neither a Hamilton nor Rosberg fan but I think I actually feel a little sorry for Rosberg at the moment.

ScumLord

EDit wrote: »

Yeah, that's weird. DC was saying during the commentary that the difference in temp strongly suggests something malfunctioned (vs foul play for some sort of advantage) so seems a bit harsh to disqualify

Meh, it's up to the teams to check their equipment is working properly. You'd think with all the monitoring they do to be fast they'd know exactly when they've broken a rule.

I think Mercedes got the collective benefit of the doubt and now Williams is the example to show teams won't get away with it anymore.

Spudman_20000

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Gosh the Mercedes strategies are so see-through. They knew from the start of this season that Hamilton was their number 1 and he was their bid for the World Championship. Rosberg was only an afterthought, an accessory. Now that Hamilton had done his job, won his title and got Mercedes their title, Mercedes only THEN look at Rosberg. They let him get a few poles, win a few races, appease him, keep him happy. Rosberg then thinks he's the bees-knees cos he's now beating the World champion but Hamilton is just coasting through the final few races, the equivalent of work-to-rule really for him.
I'm neither a Hamilton nor Rosberg fan but I think I actually feel a little sorry for Rosberg at the moment.

Jeepers, I hope your tin foil hat isn't too tight. :rolleyes:

Can you provide some insight on how Mercedes let Rosberg get a few poles? That is some engineering, especially as the gap between pole and second place in Brazil was 8 hundredths of a second.

Myrddin

Seems to me Nico just has his mojo back. Game on for next year

Andrew76

Myrddin wrote: »

Seems to me Nico just has his mojo back. Game on for next year

You had your fingers crossed typing that didn't you? :pac:

Let's hope we don't hear any more "Lewis drove like a champion" rubbish from him. He needs to stamp out that mentality over the winter break. Hopefully Ferrari can get closer too although I kind of wished they had replaced Kimi for 2016 as they need two decent drivers to put more pressure on the Mercs.

ScumLord

Nico and Hamilton have been very close all year. I'd say Nico has wondered what he has to do at some qualifying seasons where he's less than a tenth of a second behind Hamilton. Many times during the year it just seems to be that things went Hamiltons way, he had that tiny bit of extra luck that got him pole.

I think Hamilton is still trying. I don't care how good a driver you are, there's no way you can get within a tenth of a second of someone in qualifying without trying to go faster than them. It could maybe be argued that Hamilton isn't trying as hard now that he has the championship, but if the difference between him trying and not trying is .2 of a second then nobody really stands a chance against him.

It could maybe be argued that now the pressure is off and they're sort of racing for the fun of it, that Nico can perform better. He seems to let the pressure affect him.

Myrddin

Andrew76 wrote: »

You had your fingers crossed typing that didn't you? :pac:

Ha, nah not really. Of the two seasons of Merc dominance, 2014 has been the better to watch (and that's saying something). The essence of modern F1 is the battle for the championship, without that, it's bloody awful a lot of the time. 2015 was over before it began, I'd much rather have a battle for the title

Let's hope we don't hear any more "Lewis drove like a champion" rubbish from him. He needs to stamp out that mentality over the winter break.

Bizarre stuff from him early on. You'd have to wonder where all that came from. Some say it harks back to Spa 2104, & that he wasn't the same after that race over what happened. That wouldn't be congruent with what we're seeing now though, a more dominant & complete Nico (I don't buy into the notion of them 'letting' him win like this either). So maybe losing the title in 2014 just hit him harder than we thought, & it has taken quite some time for him to put it behind him?

Hopefully Ferrari can get closer too although I kind of wished they had replaced Kimi for 2016 as they need two decent drivers to put more pressure on the Mercs.

Agreed. Kimi is a spent force, time to move out of the way really. Be great to see Bottas in that seat (or Verstappen, but he's too young).

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

He seems to let the pressure affect him.

I'd agree with that, he has flinched a few times under pressure.

Sunny Dayz

Andrew76 wrote: »

Hopefully Ferrari can get closer too although I kind of wished they had replaced Kimi for 2016 as they need two decent drivers to put more pressure on the Mercs.

Agreed with this too. Vettel was the only real competition for the two Merc drivers this year and it was good to see. I wasn't really a fan of Vettel before but I enjoyed his racing and his personality this season with Ferrari. (once I got used to actually seeing him in the Ferrari red - I thought he looked completely different in it). I guess in his case a change was as good as a rest. Would like to see a different driver in the other Ferrari seat and give Mercedes a good challenge for the season.
Wishful thinking !!

hawkwind23

My favourite track was a borefest , as has most of the season been.

When the highlight is 9th-11th racing you know the sport has gone wrong.

Joe Saward has been very vocal recently on the money ruining the sport for short term gain.

In my very limited opinion , I want to see cars (engines and tyres) run at 100% for the majority of the race and i want to see drivers there on merit and not because they pay.

Sort the engines out , either one supplier and work on chasis or make it viable for small teams to develop and take a share of the wealth.

None of which will happen and F1 will likely cease to exist.

Ive been a fan since the 1970's and i have barely watched this year and can see myself watching even less next year.

Schwiiing

Races need to be shortened to an hour. Does away with the need for fuel/tyre saving and lets them get on with some actual flat out racing.

ScumLord

hawkwind23 wrote: »

Joe Saward has been very vocal recently on the money ruining the sport for short term gain.

I don't know what can be done about money, I don't know how you can really stop a company like Mercedes from spending as much as they see fit.

In my very limited opinion , I want to see cars (engines and tyres) run at 100% for the majority of the race and i want to see drivers there on merit and not because they pay.

I don't think we could realistically see tyres and engines that can run flat out 100% of the time. Tyres are always going to give you the option of going fast and pitting early or going slower and extending your stint, it's a choice. The only way you could remove that choice is to bring in one tyre that can do 2 or 3 races before it falls off a cliff and basically remove tyre pit stops. As long as the tyre wears out within the amount of laps of the race that choice will always be there.

Tyres and engines are like anything, they wear out and lose performance. How you manage that wear is racing tactics.

I don't know how they can appease fans on this one. It's impossible to get all the F1 cars on the same pace. Unless they're all on equal hardware. F-E gave some great close racing last year because they were all driving the same car. That would stop the evolution of F1 dead in it's tracks.

Maybe they need to bring in alternative routes to advancing other than just winning races. Give out development tokens to teams that make particular improvements. The improvements could be gaining a position on your finish from last year, having a more economical engine, basically rewarding a lower down team for improving in any way. It doesn't really take anything away from the top teams but gives smaller teams a chance to catch up when they show improvement.

Myrddin

Schwiiing wrote: »

Races need to be shortened to an hour. Does away with the need for fuel/tyre saving and lets them get on with some actual flat out racing.

Wouldn't make any odds because they'd still underfuel the cars & tires would be re-designed accordingly. A set-minimum amount of fuel would be a better solution

EDit

Re: the Nico and LH thing, I really think that you can't underestimate the difference it makes when the result doesn't really matter. Since LH won the championship, there really is no pressure on Nico to do anything (I'm not convinced that 2nd place vs 3rd really means that much to these guys) so he's relaxed and has found his mojo.

I've experienced this myself when I used to play regional tennis in my youth and you'd do what was called a round robin (everyone in the group plays each other) and I always seemed to play better in the last game if I had already lost the others (meaning I couldn't go through to the knock-out stages anyway)...I just relaxed, enjoyed myself and played better because of it.

Essentially, we won't know if this is a real change in Nico until the first race of 2016

p.s. Would love it if Kimi decide he'd had enough and Button got poached over to Ferrari for a season :pac:

ScumLord

Schwiiing wrote: »

Races need to be shortened to an hour. Does away with the need for fuel/tyre saving and lets them get on with some actual flat out racing.

I think they should make them longer. Longer track and more laps. These short tracks just aren't enough of a challenge to modern F1 cars. Longer tracks would bring in more variables and could reduce one teams advantage on a particular track, if each track had parts that would suit a particular setup. So if a team went for high downforce it might hurt them in one section of the track but give them an advantage in another. At the moment cars seem to suit one track or another.

Zcott

ScumLord wrote: »

I think they should make them longer. Longer track and more laps. These short tracks just aren't enough of a challenge to modern F1 cars. Longer tracks would bring in more variables and could reduce one teams advantage on a particular track, if each track had parts that would suit a particular setup. So if a team went for high downforce it might hurt them in one section of the track but give them an advantage in another. At the moment cars seem to suit one track or another.

That's what's great about Spa, and we saw it split even between the two Mercs. Lewis preferred more downforce for the twisty bits and Nico preferred the speed down the Kemmel straight.

To be honest, I think what we need from circuits is more variety. When one designer has designed all of the most recent circuits they will be fairly similar. I'd like to see more Monzas, but also more Hungarorings.

kksaints

Myrddin wrote: »

Ha, nah not really. Of the two seasons of Merc dominance, 2014 has been the better to watch (and that's saying something). The essence of modern F1 is the battle for the championship, without that, it's bloody awful a lot of the time. 2015 was over before it began, I'd much rather have a battle for the title



Bizarre stuff from him early on. You'd have to wonder where all that came from. Some say it harks back to Spa 2104, & that he wasn't the same after that race over what happened. That wouldn't be congruent with what we're seeing now though, a more dominant & complete Nico (I don't buy into the notion of them 'letting' him win like this either). So maybe losing the title in 2014 just hit him harder than we thought, & it has taken quite some time for him to put it behind him?



Agreed. Kimi is a spent force, time to move out of the way really. Be great to see Bottas in that seat (or Verstappen, but he's too young).

:eek:

Mercedes stick with the same driver line up for almost a century.

Myrddin

kksaints wrote: »

:eek:

Mercedes stick with the same driver line up for almost a century.

Lauda is looking to get in the car I hear

hawkwind23

I don't know what can be done about money, I don't know how you can really stop a company like Mercedes from spending as much as they see fit.

Not about that!
Its about how the money is distributed with Ferrari etc getting the most regardless of position, this thinking has stagnated the industry.
There should be encouragement for the small independent teams to develop.

On the point of 100% , you know what i mean! Merc have been sandbagging so much we cant be sure if they have ever had 100% for the past 2 years.

To put it simply , you can go 100% and should be 100% at the very pinnacle of motorsport , strategy should come 2nd to that

ScumLord

hawkwind23 wrote: »

Not about that!
Its about how the money is distributed with Ferrari etc getting the most regardless of position, this thinking has stagnated the industry.
There should be encouragement for the small independent teams to develop.

Agree, it should be a level playing field.

On the point of 100% , you know what i mean! Merc have been sandbagging so much we cant be sure if they have ever had 100% for the past 2 years.

To put it simply , you can go 100% and should be 100% at the very pinnacle of motorsport , strategy should come 2nd to that

I don't understand that. The car in front only has to stay in front to win, why would he risk car failure or accidents just to go flat out? It's not expected in most other sports.

Zcott

Zcott wrote: »

That's what's great about Spa, and we saw it split even between the two Mercs. Lewis preferred more downforce for the twisty bits and Nico preferred the speed down the Kemmel straight.

To be honest, I think what we need from circuits is more variety. When one designer has designed all of the most recent circuits they will be fairly similar. I'd like to see more Monzas, but also more Hungarorings.

Been saying it for ages. Remember the Force Indias in Spa and Monza in 2009?