F1 2015: Round 18 Brazilian Grand Prix

EDit

God this is crap

Ghost Train

Still close up the front, Hamilton pushing hard

CFlat

What a cracking good racing car driver Max Verstappen is. He didn't lick it from the stones.

Schwiiing

Rubbish.

When was the last time we had 2 drivers from different teams battling regularly at the front? Hakkinen v Schumacher?

HighLine

Another absolute borefest of a race and that's very rare to say about a race at Interlagos. Sooner the better this season is finished.

Benteke

Is F1 officially the most boring sport?

antodeco

Poor poor race. Some nice mid team battles, with Sauber, Lotus and Toro Rosso, but other than that, terrible. Could've had a nap instead.

Charlie-Bravo

I had a nap. Very disappointed that I've resorted to napping!

Schwiiing

Could it really be something as simple as tyre pressures being the cause of Rosbergs purple patch?

AMKC

Not a great race was boring. An easy drive for Nico for most of it. They should have brought out the safety car when Carlos Seinz's stalled and it might have made for a better race. If Nico can do what he has done the last few races next season then we might have a better season next year.

Benteke

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Watch Cricket and come back to us.

I have watched a lot of cricket, F1 is less exciting

Myrddin

Verstappen's two passes on the outside were works of art, with the right career path, he could really be something special. Otherwise, a complete waste of time as per the norm for the most part this season. As said above, the sooner the better this season is over. I really hope 2016 offers more excitement

Andrew76

Myrddin wrote: »

Verstappen's two passes on the outside were works of art, with the right career path, he could really be something special. Otherwise, a complete waste of time as per the norm for the most part this season. As said above, the sooner the better this season is over. I really hope 2016 offers more excitement

Yeah I'm annoyed at myself for wasting 2hrs watching it. Will just record Abu Dhabi and if it turns out to be a cracker I'll go back and watch it.

Myrddin

Andrew76 wrote: »

Yeah I'm annoyed at myself for wasting 2hrs watching it. Will just record Abu Dhabi and if it turns out to be a cracker I'll go back and watch it.

Sad state of affairs really, we've seen quite a few times similar posted in this forum, from once die-hard F1 fans who are now not bothering as in all likelihood, it'll be a waste of time. Has F1 ever gone through a similar period of significant complaint from the fan side? 2000-2004 sounded quite painful with Schumacher dominating, but was the racing at least guaranteed to be good?

Spudman_20000

Lewis whining again afterwards. Funny how he doesn't complain when the team manages the race and strategy when he's leading a race.

And can the media comparisons with Senna please stop? That VT intro from the BBC today, interweaving audio from Senna and clips of both himself and Hamilton was cringe-worthy.

Myrddin

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

Lewis whining again afterwards. Funny how he doesn't complain when the team manages the race and strategy when he's leading a race.

He has a point though, the system Merc use nullify any chance the driver in 2nd has to do something different. Even Wolfe acknowledged this, & said they could review it for next season. It removes any form of strategic battle that a driver might choose to employ, plus, we got three identical pitstops as a result.

stevenmu

Myrddin wrote: »

Sad state of affairs really, we've seen quite a few times similar posted in this forum, from once die-hard F1 fans who are now not bothering as in all likelihood, it'll be a waste of time. Has F1 ever gone through a similar period of significant complaint from the fan side? 2000-2004 sounded quite painful with Schumacher dominating, but was the racing at least guaranteed to be good?

I personally found it much more exciting in those years, and I think there's a couple of reasons.

For most of the period where Schumacher/Ferrari dominated, they didn't have the same type of advantage the the Mercs have today. There were races where they started in pole and just drove off into the sunset, but there were plenty of races where they had to fight to win.

Also, Schumacher and Brawn took strategy to a whole new level. The difference in tyres back then meant that it took a few laps for them to get up to speed, so the main strategy was when someone pitted, Schumacher would stay out a few laps to build up enough time to pit and come out in front. It's not as good as wheel to wheel racing and overtakes, but it was somehow much more exciting than the one lap undercut we have now. Also, it seems like all the teams have good understanding of strategy now, which kind of neutralises it for everyone (except Williams who always seem to get it wrong for some reason).

Reliability plays a big part for me too, the cars seem much more reliable now. From 2000-2004, there was always a very real possibility that any car could go at any moment. Now, with engines needing to last 4+ races, they're relatively super reliable (except for Honda obviously). If you look back to last season, a lot of the excitement happened when one or both Mercs had failures, but that has barely happened at all this season.

EDit

Out of interest, the rule re: the leading Merc choosing when to pit first...is that a Merc rule or a F1 rule?

seamusk84

I'm going to keep watching the races but let's be honest it will be 2017 until we see proper racing again. The cars will be back to 2005 speeds and the drivers will be properly tested.
Next year will most likely be the merc show again. But I live in hope!

Myrddin

EDit wrote: »

Out of interest, the rule re: the leading Merc choosing when to pit first...is that a Merc rule or a F1 rule?

It's a Merc rule. To be fair to them, I'd say both agreed to it before the season (or even last season), but it probably looks fairer on paper than it does in reality. It totally sterilises the driver in 2nd from a strategic perspective.

seamusk84 wrote: »

I'm going to keep watching the races but let's be honest it will be 2017 until we see proper racing again. The cars will be back to 2005 speeds and the drivers will be properly tested.
Next year will most likely be the merc show again. But I live in hope!

I'm not convinced we'll see 2005 speeds tbh. 2017 will be good because it'll shake things up, whether they stay that way though or settle back down again is another story. If the racing gets much closer, and stays that way, I think it'll be a big improvement.

Mike Litoris

Man that was boring. Fallout 4 on the laptop meant it wasn't a total waste of time.

Interlagos can throw up some duds when its dry but that was pretty bad. Max Verstappen and Alonso memes were highlights.

Uno my Uno.

Myrddin wrote: »

Sad state of affairs really, we've seen quite a few times similar posted in this forum, from once die-hard F1 fans who are now not bothering as in all likelihood, it'll be a waste of time. Has F1 ever gone through a similar period of significant complaint from the fan side? 2000-2004 sounded quite painful with Schumacher dominating, but was the racing at least guaranteed to be good?

The 2000 to 2004 period caused me to stop watching for several years, the results were predictable, the racing tame and there was little to keep you interested. in the last 6 or 7 years we have seen two drivers dominate but championships have come down to the wire on several occasions and the racing through the field has been much more exciting and interesting. Some people may not enjoy watching a tight three way battle for 10th and 11th place but I enjoy it, I certainly enjoy a great deal more than races from the Shumacher Era wen there would be only a handful of passes if that.

Mike Litoris

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

The 2000 to 2004 period caused me to stop watching for several years, the results were predictable, the racing tame and there was little to keep you interested. in the last 6 or 7 years we have seen two drivers dominate but championships have come down to the wire on several occasions and the racing through the field has been much more exciting and interesting. Some people may not enjoy watching a tight three way battle for 10th and 11th place but I enjoy it, I certainly enjoy a great deal more than races from the Shumacher Era wen there would be only a handful of passes if that.

Agree. Not being a fan of Schumacher or Ferrari didn't help things either. As bad as this season is/was nothing can match 2004 for being utterly boring.

kksaints

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Agree. Not being a fan of Schumacher or Ferrari didn't help things either. As bad as this season is/was nothing can match 2004 for being utterly boring.

2004 was a truly awful season, Ferrari were so dominant, particularly as 2003 had been so good. It really put me off F1 until the news of Schumacher retirement during the 2006 season.

beanie10

Just turned on the highlights about half way through. Whats is the story from the constant whinging from Hamilton. "I cant follow, I damaged my floor" etc etc. Strategy doesnt suit 2nd place whinge whinge.
Hamilton is the main instigator in the comparison with Senna. I dont recall the greats like Senna, Schumacher, Hakkinen, Alonso, even Hill whinge about not being able to follow the lead car. That is what made these lads legends. They overtook when they shouldnt have.
They just got on with the job with no bullsh1t. Hamilton is going through now what Rossberg went through all season, finding it hard to follow another car. Not even Rossberg whinged as much about it. Hamilton is 2nd rate driver at best when following Rossberg, and you definitely would not call Rossberg a great driver.

This comparison of Hamilton to Senna is the most twisted comparison I ever heard. Fair enough Hamilton has equalled Senna's wins, but do people forget that Senna career was cut short. He would have won plenty more. Also hamilton is given a huge advantage by being in the best car by far. The sane cannot be said for Senna, Schumacher of Hakkinen. As Rossberg has provved 12 times- any tool in a Merc can win a race. Hamilton is just a slighltly sharper tool.
Rant over.

EDit

To be fair, did they broadcast the team radio transmissions and conduct interviews on the podium when those folks were racing? For all we know, all of them could have been whiny ole bitches as well. Also, it's pretty much a rarity that anyone wins the F1 championship without the best car...the combination of the best car and best of the 2 drivers in that car leads to the champion 99 times out of 100 IMO. Agree that LH comes across as a sore loser though

Myrddin

beanie10 wrote: »

I dont recall the greats like Senna, Schumacher, Hakkinen, Alonso, even Hill whinge about not being able to follow the lead car

Strange, I recall Alonso felt Petrov should have simply gotten out of his way in the final race of 2010. He went mental in the car when the race ended, waving like a prima donna because another racing driver wouldn't let him past (and I say that as an Alonso fan). Senna is lauded for his aggressive overtaking & hole-punching (forcing drivers to either yield to him or face a crash), something Lewis gets criticised for.

Ricciardo took several laps to get passed both Manor's during this race, so trying to follow/pass a car with equal performance to your own for 70+ laps must be incredibly frustrating. I wonder how Soccer or other sports would sound if players had mics on them for the whole thing...

beanie10

EDit wrote: »

To be fair, did they broadcast the team radio transmissions and conduct interviews on the podium when those folks were racing? For all we know, all of them could have been whiny ole bitches as well. Also, it's pretty much a rarity that anyone wins the F1 championship without the best car...the combination of the best car and best of the 2 drivers in that car leads to the champion 99 times out of 100 IMO. Agree that LH comes across as a sore loser though

Fair points. No they did not broadcast team radio or do podium interviews. They carried out interviews 5 minutes after the podium so little difference there. When Schumacher won at Benetton Hill was in the better car and in Scumachers early Ferrari wins Hakkinen was in the better car. When Senna was winning he had decent competition from Williams.
Hamilton creates am atmosphere, id say its a nightmare to work with him. He comes across as so false. Button on the otherhand is a talisman for the sport. Id love to see him in a Merc beside Hamilton.

Myrddin

beanie10 wrote: »

Button on the otherhand is a talisman for the sport. Id love to see him in a Merc beside Hamilton.

+1, a complete gent & a great racer to boot. He's the only team mate of Lewis to have beaten him over a season if I recall.

Andrew76

beanie10 wrote: »

Fair points. No they did not broadcast team radio or do podium interviews. They carried out interviews 5 minutes after the podium so little difference there. When Schumacher won at Benetton Hill was in the better car and in Scumachers early Ferrari wins Hakkinen was in the better car. When Senna was winning he had decent competition from Williams.
Hamilton creates am atmosphere, id say its a nightmare to work with him. He comes across as so false. Button on the otherhand is a talisman for the sport. Id love to see him in a Merc beside Hamilton.

Actually I'd say there's a big difference between mid-race conversations and post race interviews!

Nobody is immune to having a good ole whinge - they all do it. Let's not forget the whinging Button did halfway through his championship winning season when other teams got to grips with the double diffuser and Barrichello pulled the finger out. "What have we done to this car..." or something similar was one I remember - he was starting to bottle it and only took the title in the last race.

I'm only guessing but there must be a ferocious amount of pressure on you when you're at the front end of the grid and with the world listening in too, so I'd forgive them for coming across as whingers or dicks now and again.