IWC Pilot alternative

Bluefoam

So... A friend of mine is looking to purchase his first proper timepiece. He's been skirting around it for a couple of years and is keen on the IWC Pilot. It's a bit beyond his budget, so I thought I'd ask here for suggestions of an alternative. His budget is about €2000+ and he's looking for something with a relatively large face.

He mentioned a Tudor recently, but I think he'll be able to find something with a bit more caché if he looks around.

Ideas please

Lex Luthor

https://www.stowa.de/cgi-bin/cosmoshop/lshop.cgi?action=largepic&pic=/z/fliegerchrono/g/Flieger_Chrono_1.jpg&artnum=fliegerchrono&wkid=144682420817352&ls=en&nocache=1446824306-17949

Its a chronograph but .....

peasant

http://www.archimede-watches.com/watches/pilot.html

a whole range of them at more moderate prices

Lex Luthor

there's something about this Archimede that I keep coming back to

Bluefoam

Thanks

Part of the criteria is that it should be a very recognisable make. Something that will be recognised across a meeting table.

I'm no expert so please don't be annoyed with me saying it, but those brands would seem a bit obscure to a novice like me..

Even the Tudor would seem somewhat obscure to me...

I was wondering if there was an omega or similar in his price range...

I found this online: http://www.swisswatchesdirect.co.uk/watch/moa10063_baume_et_mercier_mens_watches_capeland

Mitch Buchannon

How about Bremont ? Some folks love them..some love to hate them.
I have to say, I quite like the MB II.
Sheeran's in town have them. Im not too sure of their prices. I have heard that in the UK discounts can be secured easily enough.

Bremont MB II
http://www.bremont.com/collection/mb/mbii

Bremont U22
http://www.bremont.com/collection/u-2/u-22

Bremont Solo
http://www.bremont.com/collection/solo/solo-wh

Bluefoam

Good suggestion. I do think he needs a Swiss timepiece for his fist watch. It's a daily wearer to be worn for business and leisure... The gentleman in question is quite dapper... Always well dressed

Lex Luthor

Dornbluth? 99.1

Homer

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Dornbluth? 99.1

Don't think that will come in under €2k and they are rare pre owned.

G rock

Alpina startimer.

Swiss made I think?

Wibbs

Maybe a Longines, something from their Heritage line? They'd have a history in aviation that would dwarf IWC's and would be close enough to his price range and would be a recognised brand. Though would be more recognised in places like the far east.

Examples like;



Or





Damasko would be defo on the list of more modern pilots watches. Very cool looking watches



Would be missing the name factor though.

peasant

This Junghans will be launched in 2016, it's a remake of their 1955 Luftwaffe Chronograph, should come in at a shade over 2k




but knowing the usual boardroom table they won't recognize Junghans either

Bluefoam

That's a nice looking watch. Not sure he'll recognise the name. I like the idea of a good Raymond Weil or Longinse. Where do their automatic timepieces sit in the hierarchy? Above Tag?

Deep Thought

If he is looking for a known name then the likes of IWC, Archimede etc are not in scope

Buy a Omega, Breitling, Tag or Longines.

Only the real WUS will recognise the like of IWC, Dornbluth etc

DT

Bluefoam

I agree for the most part... But IWC is quite mainstream here

Cyrus

Bluefoam wrote: »

That's a nice looking watch. Not sure he'll recognise the name. I like the idea of a good Raymond Weil or Longinse. Where do their automatic timepieces sit in the hierarchy? Above Tag?

Rw below for sure longines probably below tag as well imo

Zenith do some decent pilots

http://www.jomashop.com/zenith-watch-03-2430-3000-21-c738.html

That's his best bet for brand , style and price

Cyrus

Or s/h iwc

http://www.chrono24.co.uk/iwc/spitfire-chronograph--id3658334.htm

Cyrus

Or finally

This

http://www.chrono24.co.uk/iwc/iwc-pilots-mark-xvii-new-plastics-092105--steel-boxpaper--id3795073.htm

Bluefoam

What are Baume and Mercier like? I'm like the idea of this:

http://www.jomashop.com/baume-mercier-watch-m0a10063.html

Will also suggest a longinse or base model omega.

Cyrus

Bluefoam wrote: »

What are Baume and Mercier like? I'm like the idea of this:

http://www.jomashop.com/baume-mercier-watch-m0a10063.html

Will also suggest a longinse or base model omega.

if he wants a brand he will want omega

Lex Luthor

this Hamilton?

http://www.jomashop.com/hamilton-jazzmaster-mens-watch-h32576515.html

MarcusP12

Lex Luthor wrote: »

this Hamilton?

http://www.jomashop.com/hamilton-jazzmaster-mens-watch-h32576515.html

don't mean to derail the thread but has anyone used this website? massive discounts in particular for breitlings which are my long term plan (about €2.5k for seawolf plus delivery and customs). do they deliver to Ireland and if so what are the costs? what would you expect to pay on customs, % wise? is it based on the declared value or of the value here?

Bluefoam

Lex Luthor wrote: »

this Hamilton?

http://www.jomashop.com/hamilton-jazzmaster-mens-watch-h32576515.html

That Hamilton is a lovely looking watch, but I'm not sure it has the gravitas he's looking for

Lex Luthor

https://www.stowa.de/cgi-bin/cosmoshop/lshop.cgi?action=largepic&pic=/z/chrono_1938/g/Chrono_11.jpg&artnum=chrono_1938&wkid=144692499511975&ls=en&nocache=1446925048-12678

if this doesn't get noticed across a boardroom table, nothing will

or this beauty

https://www.stowa.de/cgi-bin/cosmoshop/lshop.cgi?action=largepic&pic=/z/marinechronograph/g/Marine_Chrono_matt_07.jpg&artnum=marinechronograph&wkid=144692499511975&ls=en&nocache=1446925193-13363



Has Sinn been mentioned?

Deep Thought

Bluefoam wrote: »

I agree for the most part... But IWC is quite mainstream here

here yes...man on the Street...doubt it

Bluefoam

Just to clarify. I live in the Middle East...

In the average meeting here I will see Patek Philippe, Hublot, IWC, Rolex, Zenith, Breitling, Tag etc... Lots of people with Tag F1's & Tissot... For some reason I rarely see Omega...

A nice timepiece is seen as a gentleman's accessory. The choice of watch represents your maturity, taste, style & personality. But it also represents your position at the table (so to speak). The watch doesn't have to be super expensive, but it should be a good choice.

There is something quite superficial about the watch culture here, but there is also less pretensions on some levels... for instance, most watch collectors will have a couple of Tags... people don't looks down their nose at them. Tissot is a very respectable brand, very well regarded and a very good entry level watch.

Personally, I wear a Tag Heuer Monaco... its my dream watch for 20 years & I finally had the opportunity to get one. It is extremely versatile and rarely comes off my wrist. I can wear it with work attire, casual or fully suited and booted... It is also very well respected as a timepiece & for such a well known watch, gets allot of attention.

This friend of mine is looking for something similar, but to match his style and personality... These are the watches he really likes, but are outside of his price range at the moment. To me they both have very nice details very nice faces with embossed numerals etc...







I had an MD who used to wear an entry level Tag F1... which is a grand watch & I'd prefer not to slag anyone who wears one... but for a wealthy man, meeting powerful and wealthy people on a regular basis, he did not represent himself well with his watch choice... I have heard clients openly deride him for his watch choice & I have to agree... It communicated a cheapness about him, which was actually quite accurate.

Senecio

Honestly, your friend will need to find the budget for an IWC Pilot. In that boardroom environment, anything that looks like an IWC, but isn't, will be spotted and noticed for the wrong reasons.

There are plenty of great watches out there at the €2K mark, but not in the brands that will be recognised in that environment.

Mredsnapper

Watch culture is a bit like that in China too when I'm there. I don't think 2k is going to get any of the branded watches your friend aspires to so I think the nest advice would be to take your own advice a buy a Tissot while saving for something more prestigeous.

Wibbs

Bluefoam wrote: »

In the average meeting here I will see Patek Philippe, Hublot, IWC, Rolex, Zenith, Breitling, Tag etc... Lots of people with Tag F1's & Tissot... For some reason I rarely see Omega...

Funny BF, a memory has only just dawned on me. Would this environment be mostly made up of non locals, ex pats? I only ask as I've noted that that scene whether they be in the middle east or far east are far more aware of wristwatches and brand hierarchy than background levels anywhere else, where they're rarely if ever noticed. A good mate of mine is in your neck of the woods and he'd have precious little interest in watches, but asked me for similar advice a few years ago. And FWIW B I suggested a basic Rolex Submariner for him(he had a bigger budget and they were about a third cheaper then). He'd break a Patek into its component parts inside a week. Even the Sub hasn't survived unscathed. But yeah, now I see where you're coming from.

Omega are probably not so well represented because they may be seen as more "common", less aspirational than even TAG's(for a certain older age group TAG's were the watch of go-getters). Tissot would be the "Longines of the middle east", whereas further east in Asia it would be Longines(third biggest selling luxury brand in China and gaining).

A nice timepiece is seen as a gentleman's accessory. The choice of watch represents your maturity, taste, style & personality. But it also represents your position at the table (so to speak). The watch doesn't have to be super expensive, but it should be a good choice.

OK I'm going to go a little off piste here and suggest a vintage. I've been discussing these in another forum so they're in my mind. What about this?



Vintage Heuer pilot's watch officially issued to the German(and Norwegian) military in the 60/70's. Actual pilot's watch, a chronograph with flyback complication, it's a big bugger at 43mm across and 50mm lug to lug, but wears comfortably even on my thin wrist. It's got the name and history, it's got the heft and it has the "I'm a discerning, informed chap who doesn't just throw down cash in a duty free" vibe. They look remarkably dressy on a croc strap. Disadvantages? Some hunting will be involved, but a few sellers on specialist forums have them and at your mate's price point too(I can keep the beady out for you). They're not waterproof and no way would you send it to TAG for servicing because they'll ask your mates budget in payment. :eek: Again there are guys servicing these and for around 2-300 euro. Just a thought.

Bluefoam

Thanks Wibbs. Good advice. However, I know this guy won't consider anything pre owned... I feel like telling him to man up and increase his budget or to start making some savings to get the watch he actually wants...

Everyone here seems to be into watches... Local Arabs, Expat Arabs, Western Expats, Indians, Asians... It's interesting to see. I drove down the main road last night & every billboard was for a high end watch brand...

Wibbs

Bluefoam wrote: »

Thanks Wibbs. Good advice. However, I know this guy won't consider anything pre owned...

There can be an odd psychology to it alright. Preowned when it comes to current watches can be seen as "too poor to afford brand new", but when a watch become much older and "vintage" this has a different psychology entirely. Your guy probably sees all non brand new watches as "secondhand". Pity, because his budget would open up a whole new world of choice for him.

Everyone here seems to be into watches... Local Arabs, Expat Arabs, Western Expats, Indians, Asians... It's interesting to see. I drove down the main road last night & every billboard was for a high end watch brand...

I'd say it's because it's a go getter and highly competitive(and male) environment and about the only jewellery a man can wear is a watch. Unlike a flash car it's one of the few portable status transmitters(along with expensive suits, but a watch can come along on "casual" outings).

blue5000

Not used, but has been on display, 'demo' model I suppose you could call it. In USA, not sure what import tax to middle East would be like, no price given, but similar new ones are around 3.2k

https://www.chrono24.com/en/iwc/pilot-collectionmark-xvii-stainless-steel-41mm--id2669930.htm

If he wants an IWC and if the ppl there are as snobby/knowledgable about their watches as you have said, then I think the lad is at nothing with a watch that looks like an IWC. Wibbs suggested a vintage Heur, is vintage a big no no out there?

Over rated ETA movement perhaps? http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?347638-IWC-Pilot-s-Watch-Mark-XVII-calibre-30110-automatic-movement

I saw a similar thread on a different forum and the lad was getting slated, I'll try find a link. (I hope it wasn't you:eek:)

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/watch-impress-business-meetings-newbie-advice-2508234.html

Bluefoam

blue5000 wrote: »

Not used, but has been on display, 'demo' model I suppose you could call it. In USA, not sure what import tax to middle East would be like, no price given, but similar new ones are around 3.2k

https://www.chrono24.com/en/iwc/pilot-collectionmark-xvii-stainless-steel-41mm--id2669930.htm

If he wants an IWC and if the ppl there are as snobby/knowledgable about their watches as you have said, then I think the lad is at nothing with a watch that looks like an IWC. Wibbs suggested a vintage Heur, is vintage a big no no out there?

Over rated ETA movement perhaps? http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?347638-IWC-Pilot-s-Watch-Mark-XVII-calibre-30110-automatic-movement

I saw a similar thread on a different forum and the lad was getting slated, I'll try find a link. (I hope it wasn't you:eek:)

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/watch-impress-business-meetings-newbie-advice-2508234.html

Thanks for your response blue5000, I think we're all here to talk about an interest in watches, which can always be seen as snobby in some way.

However, I didn't use that term. I mentioned that a nice timepiece represented an individuals maturity, taste, style & personality. But it also represents your position at the table (so to speak) in a country where allot of people have an interest in quality timepieces irrespective of price. This is a region without a depth of history, there are no antiques, old buildings, old cars, things with natural patina, so a pre owned watch is not as appealing. It is a place where we are surrounded by new and shiny things and as a result of living in that environment there is a lack of the type of earthiness you experience in Ireland. I am not considered a high earner here, but when I go into a meeting I act in a certain way & I like to reflect that in my attire, which includes the watch I wear on my wrist.

The fact of the matter is that obscure brands are less appealing to those who are not collectors here... I suppose its the same way you don't want to buy an unknown brand Chinese smartphone, unless you are in the know. It may do all you need, but you wouldn't have confidence in making the purchase.

This thread isn't about pretending to have an IWC to impress people, it is about finding a watch that has a certain style, brand recognition & quality. I was looking for an education here & a bit of camaraderie for a novice with an interest in watches... I received very good advice from most here & yes, brand recognition is important. Brands work hard on quality, customer service and technology in order to build positive brand recognition & that is why people buy into them.

Wibbs

It's a tough one BF. Basically the chap is constrained by three things; a budget of around 2 K, a locally recognisable brand and it must be new. He'll have to work back from that point. Given you've mentioned that Tissot are a locally recognised brand, are within his budget and he can buy one new, I reckon that's what he should concentrate on. Others like Longines could be in the mix. IMH Omega not so much as you get less bang for the buck because of their rising prices over the last decade. You mentioned Baume and Mercier and personally I don't rate them much(and they were always niche even in vintage terms), but if they have the local recognition they might be in the game too.

Bluefoam

Agreed Wibbs. As I said earlier, I think he should either increase his budget, or wait until he's in a position to increase his budget. I think he'll be disappointed if he spends 2000 on a watch he's not as enthusiastic about.

I can't believe I'm putting so much effort into someone elses purchase :rolleyes:

peasant

Would Fortis be a "recognised brand" at the bored-room table?

They certainly have the history, the right type of watches and on some models the 2k (or lower) price tag as well.

http://www.fortis-swiss.com/cosmonautis/

MarcusP12

If you're saying that Tissot carries a good bit of brand recognition in the middle east then you could do a lot worse than go for a watch I bought earlier in the year, i.e. PRC 200 automatic chronograph as an interim purchase before something more extravagant down the line....its a big chunky solid watch which I think is impressive for the price, i.e. around €800....I posted a picture of it when I got it back in jan/feb if you want to take a look..there a crowd also that goes by the name of Royal Trade based in Italy on Chrono24 that does Tag aquaracers 300mm chrono quartz for 1300 plus 120 delivery that caught my eye also....2k whilst a good budget for most, from my research is a bit limited unless you go 2nd hand for the type of watch being discussed...

sparrowcar

Bluefoam wrote: »

Agreed Wibbs. As I said earlier, I think he should either increase his budget, or wait until he's in a position to increase his budget. I think he'll be disappointed if he spends 2000 on a watch he's not as enthusiastic about.

I can't believe I'm putting so much effort into someone elses purchase :rolleyes:

You're in the watches and timepieces forum, we all knew from your first post that this was for you and not your "friend"

Your secret is safe with us

mynameis905

We all do it to some extent but the idea of buying a watch solely for brand cachet kinda sets my teeth on edge. I think the only 'big name' watch brand that your friend is going to be able to afford with €2,000 new is Longines. Baume & Mercier always struck me as a fairly bland, middle of the road brand that make ok looking watches that would bore you to tears within a week of buying them.

The Longines Heritage Diver 1967 has an RRP of about $3,000 but you should be able to get it for less than that. Stunning looking watch.

blue5000

Bluefoam wrote: »

Thanks for your response blue5000, I think we're all here to talk about an interest in watches, which can always be seen as snobby in some way.

However, I didn't use that term. I mentioned that a nice timepiece represented an individuals maturity, taste, style & personality. But it also represents your position at the table (so to speak) in a country where allot of people have an interest in quality timepieces irrespective of price. This is a region without a depth of history, there are no antiques, old buildings, old cars, things with natural patina, so a pre owned watch is not as appealing. It is a place where we are surrounded by new and shiny things and as a result of living in that environment there is a lack of the type of earthiness you experience in Ireland. I am not considered a high earner here, but when I go into a meeting I act in a certain way & I like to reflect that in my attire, which includes the watch I wear on my wrist.

The fact of the matter is that obscure brands are less appealing to those who are not collectors here... I suppose its the same way you don't want to buy an unknown brand Chinese smartphone, unless you are in the know. It may do all you need, but you wouldn't have confidence in making the purchase.

This thread isn't about pretending to have an IWC to impress people, it is about finding a watch that has a certain style, brand recognition & quality. I was looking for an education here & a bit of camaraderie for a novice with an interest in watches... I received very good advice from most here & yes, brand recognition is important. Brands work hard on quality, customer service and technology in order to build positive brand recognition & that is why people buy into them.

Sorry bluefoam, I'm totally ignorant of how things are done in the middle east, everything being new etc. suggests to me that you might be living and working in Dubai where there seems to be a lot of 'new' money circulating. Here in Ireland I reckon only 10% of the male adult population wear a watch every day.
So I would share the opinion of others; 2k budget, recognisable brand and has to be new, Longines would be my choice, perhaps something from their heritage collection. But I'd be very slow to spend >€1500 on an ETA movement.

dancrowley

Lex Luthor wrote: »

https://www.stowa.de/cgi-bin/cosmoshop/lshop.cgi?action=largepic&pic=/z/fliegerchrono/g/Flieger_Chrono_1.jpg&artnum=fliegerchrono&wkid=144682420817352&ls=en&nocache=1446824306-17949

Its a chronograph but .....

I was in a similar "pickle" when looking at a pilot watch. I could have gone for the IWC but instead went with this Stowa Flieger Chrono. I find it to be more versatile than the IWC as the dial is less cluttered. The leather strap that comes with it, as per the picture, is wonderful. I swapped it out recently for a perlon strap and now like it even more. The brand might not be recognizable among the PP, AP, etc crew, but wearing this watch in high-end stores, it always gets attention from the staff.

(I also live in the Middle East; last night, when waiting for a sandwich, I spotted two chaps; one with an AP Royal Oak and the other with an AP Royal Oak Offshore Chrono (in rose gold). Par for the course :rolleyes::) )

Lex Luthor

Maybe its time to start educating these people there is a world outside the chosen few they seem to be sticking with

Bluefoam

I'm not sure they need educating... They are happy out. Why do they need to discover something different? Surely that's for people with a more specific interest in watches...

I'd say time would be better spent educating the 90% of Irish people who don't wear any watch

Mredsnapper

Different cultures.

In some parts of Ireland people are often expected to dress down and a nice watch might be seen as ostentatious or showing off. I'll admit that I try to keep mine tucked into my sleeve here most of the time.*

In some parts of Asia people are expected to wear their success on their sleeve so to speak. Nothing wrong with it, just the expected way of doing business etc.*

(* A generalisation, yes. And only from observation after having spent a reasonable amount of time in both cultures.)

Lex Luthor

Bluefoam wrote: »

I'm not sure they need educating... They are happy out. Why do they need to discover something different? Surely that's for people with a more specific interest in watches...

I'd say time would be better spent educating the 90% of Irish people who don't wear any watch

ya but if they have an interest in watches, then would it not be good to expose them to other brands of good quality and value for money?

I'm wasting my time talking to the general public and friends about the merits and pleasure of having a nice watch. I'd rather have a conversation with an enthusiast and expose them to other brands...