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Slammin Sam head back to League

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    #32
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    case885 wrote: »
    What's the difficulty in shoving? A lot of flankers don't jump in the lineout so it wouldn't be that uncommon although a disadvantage.
    As for the breakdown it wouldn't be his primary role anyway, tackling and carrying which he's very good at are.

    Just highlighting his complete inexperience as a forward. He couldn't adjust to the centre, I just can't see how he'd be any better at 6.


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    #33
    1eg0a3xv7b82of
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭1eg0a3xv7b82of


    very bizarre episode, you can be sure burrell had friends in the england camp who were secretly raging that burrell was dropped for a league player with very little experience of union.
    Its not Burgess's fault that both england and bath signed him before they even had thought out a plan to use him.


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    #34
    English Lurker
    Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭English Lurker


    former total wrote: »
    I can't believe he'd ever have made it as a 6. A 26 year old flanker who'd never shoved in a scrum or jumped in a line out? And what's he going to do at the breakdown? If he struggled to adapt to centre, I don't think playing a more technically demanding position would be any easier.

    I had my doubts but seeing is believing and at the tail end of last season Burgess was playing 6 and looking like he could go all the way. Bath had done a huge amount of training him for the breakdown and it was clearly paying dividends. They'd ignored the lineout to do so but I am fully confident that if they could train him to contribute effectively at the breakdown, they could have made a decent lineout forward too. It really did seem to suit him an awful lot better. Maybe he secretly disagreed though.


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    #35
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Will go down in history as a less successful convert than the man who's contracted name was basically, ****e Heap. I wish him all the best with the Chazwazzas.


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    #36
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Robbo wrote: »
    Will go down in history as a less successful convert than the man who's contracted name was basically, ****e Heap. I wish him all the best with the Chazwazzas.

    Hape was permanently concussed for about six years though, in hi defence.


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    #37
    English Lurker
    Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭English Lurker


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Hape was permanently concussed for about six years though, in hi defence.

    When I am feeling mean and like winding up my fellow England fans/myself, I like to point out to people that DJ Hape is the most successful England inside centre of the past 5 years and arguably the best.


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    #38
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    English Lurker wrote: »
    I think someone probably gave him some false expectations.

    There was a bit of that going around throughout the whole saga. And it just made the whole thing harder on everyone. The RFU and the media need to learn to keep it in their pants until they get past third base, otherwise they'll continue looking a bit foolish for being so premature.....


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    #39
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭OldRio


    molloyjh wrote: »
    There was a bit of that going around throughout the whole saga. And it just made the whole thing harder on everyone. The RFU and the media need to learn to keep it in their pants until they get past third base, otherwise they'll continue looking a bit foolish for being so premature.....

    'Matron'.:D


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    #40
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    How many league converts have really delivered on their promise? I mean guys who were stars in league and successfully made the jump.

    Jason Robinson, Brad Thorn, Lote Tuqiri, Folau and Sonny Bill Williams all managed it.

    Very few in the Northern hemisphere though? Am I missing anyone obvious?

    I think Ben Te'o has been a success in his first 12 months, if he can keep up his current trajectory he'll definitely go down as a win.


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    #41
    Bridge93
    Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Jonathan Davies made the jump. Chris Ashton to a certain extent in that he wasn't really a superstar st either but managed to be probably as successful at both


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    #42
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    Bridge93 wrote: »
    Jonathan Davies made the jump. Chris Ashton to a certain extent in that he wasn't really a superstar st either but managed to be probably as successful at both

    Davies went the other way though, i.e. union to league.


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    #43
    Bridge93
    Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Kyle Eastmond would in my view have the potential to push on at Union. The other one I can think of is Stephen Myler for being a decent pro at both


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    #44
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    former total wrote: »
    How many league converts have really delivered on their promise? I mean guys who were stars in league and successfully made the jump.

    Jason Robinson, Brad Thorn, Lote Tuqiri, Folau and Sonny Bill Williams all managed it.

    Very few in the Northern hemisphere though? Am I missing anyone obvious?

    I think Ben Te'o has been a success in his first 12 months, if he can keep up his current trajectory he'll definitely go down as a win.

    Chris Ashton


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    #45
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    http://www.rugbyonslaught.com/2015/11/this-sports-section-front-page-of.html

    paul ackford gone to town on burgess. havent read the full article but prior to the eng-nz RL game yesterday they discussed the Burgess return to RL and it was mentioned that the article to be published blames Burgess for ruining Lancaster's rep as a coach.

    Cant blame him for going back to Aus and RL if he is going to bear the brunt of a fauilure of which he had little or no involvement in creating because england's failure at the RWC goes back a long way before Burgess switched codes


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    #46
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    aimee1 wrote: »
    http://www.rugbyonslaught.com/2015/11/this-sports-section-front-page-of.html

    paul ackford gone to town on burgess. havent read the full article but prior to the eng-nz RL game yesterday they discussed the Burgess return to RL and it was mentioned that the article to be published blames Burgess for ruining Lancaster's rep as a coach.

    Cant blame him for going back to Aus and RL if he is going to bear the brunt of a fauilure of which he had little or no involvement in creating because england's failure at the RWC goes back a long way before Burgess switched codes

    that's just silly


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    #47
    RedemptionZ
    Registered Users Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭RedemptionZ


    Is it fair to say it's harder to convert to union than vice versa? Much smaller playing pool and less specialist positions etc.


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    #48
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,051 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Stupid article imo. Burgess did not offer himself a contract. He didn't select himself for the RWC squad and he didn't decide he'd start himself against Wales.


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    #49
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    The man himself speaks: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3311129/SAM-BURGESS-couldn-t-right-fighting-losing-battle-playing-rugby-union-England-heart-just-isn-t-it.html


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    #50
    Pink Fairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Pink Fairy


    Burgess comes out and says his heart wasn't in union, that ex players (Darcy) were writing in the media about him, that people couldn't wait until he failed.
    Frankly, he needs to stop apportioning blame elsewhere and face up to his role in the whole debacle


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    #51
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    Pink Fairy wrote: »
    Burgess comes out and says his heart wasn't in union, that ex players (Darcy) were writing in the media about him, that people couldn't wait until he failed.
    Frankly, he needs to stop apportioning blame elsewhere and face up to his role in the whole debacle

    even before he played for england the knives were out. He was never going to succeed. The ex players/coaches he refers to IMO are english ones. Not Darcy.

    D'Arcy's only comment came after the Wales or Aus game. There was plenty written having a go at him long before then.


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    #52
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Pink Fairy wrote: »
    Burgess comes out and says his heart wasn't in union, that ex players (Darcy) were writing in the media about him, that people couldn't wait until he failed.
    Frankly, he needs to stop apportioning blame elsewhere and face up to his role in the whole debacle

    I don't think he meant Darce, I think he was talking about English ex-players and coaches, of which there were a good few criticising his selection long before Darce wrote his one single article on the issue. Clive Woodward and Will Greenwood said he shouldn't be selected, although weren't that critical of him. Guys like Ashton, Tindall, Simon Shaw and Will Carling were also in the press saying he shouldn't be there. In fact you'd struggle to see anyone from outside the set-up backing his selection. I can't imagine Burgess gave a damn about Darces opinion at all. I'd say the constant stream of "he shouldn't be there" from within England was far more relevant.


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    #53
    Pink Fairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Pink Fairy


    There's a few nods to Darce in todays papers people reckon, but that's not the real point.
    The RFU recruited him, found a club for him in Bath, and gave him a guaranteed slot on the WC panel. Lancaster comes out of this looking like an idiot, and yet, he had no say in Burgess selection, plenty of English centres who's hearts are! in union got left out to accommodate Burgess, and now when its gone wrong, the RFU order an internal review, and Burgess buggers off home to a pay increase.
    Guess who'll be left to carry the can for this debacle?!


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    #54
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    Apparently Bath have signed David Denton to replace Burgess.


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    #55
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Pink Fairy wrote: »
    The RFU recruited him, found a club for him in Bath, and gave him a guaranteed slot on the WC panel.

    Has anyone reported this?


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    #56
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Has anyone reported this?

    Bath paid £500k to sign him and it was reported at the time that no RFU financial input into the deal


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    #57
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    aimee1 wrote: »
    Bath paid £500k to sign him and it was reported at the time that no RFU financial input into the deal

    Bath made a £250K profit selling him back to League


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    #58
    Pink Fairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Pink Fairy


    aimee1 wrote: »
    Bath paid £500k to sign him and it was reported at the time that no RFU financial input into the deal

    There were reports on the sky sports app last week (can't find now) but what it said that the RFU recruited him, Bath took him (some clubs not happy about a player given to Bath while being "sponsored" by the RFU) and quite a few noses out of joint as he had leapfrogged players who deserved to go to the WC
    I think that over the coming weeks the truth will come out, but I have a feeling Lancaster is going to be set up as the sacrificial lamb to take the fall for a mess that was out of his control


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    #59
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    former total wrote: »
    Very few in the Northern hemisphere though? Am I missing anyone obvious?

    In NZ and SA you can drop out of the shop window and play in the very high standard domestic competitions with less pressure on you . That's not an option up here


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    #60
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Has anyone reported this?

    No. There's literally no evidence to back that up at all.


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    #61
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Well Mike Ford ain't holding back anyway!

    CTd0_6jXAAMlotz?format=pjpg&name=large

    http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/mike-ford-sam-burgess-should-have-rolled-up-his-sleeves-but-didnt-have-stomach-for-the-fight-34187968.html


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