Pheasants scarce in South Tipp.

hathcock

The areas I've hunted for the past 30 years seem to be devoid of pheasants,I have never seen them as scarce,I'm in south Tipperary where there's always been a relatively plentiful supply.The other lads in our local club have the same complaint,one lad told me he has hunted the same place for thirty years on opening day,he failed to meet a single bird,a first.Speculation abounds as to the cause,some are blaming variously,buzzards,foxes,weather,our released birds,and other theories.Suffice to say this season so far is the worst in living memory.Has anyone else noticed similar in their neck of the woods?be interested to hear.

Straffan1979

hathcock wrote: »

The areas I've hunted for the past 30 years seem to be devoid of pheasants,I have never seen them as scarce,I'm in south Tipperary where there's always been a relatively plentiful supply.The other lads in our local club have the same complaint,one lad told me he has hunted the same place for thirty years on opening day,he failed to meet a single bird,a first.Speculation abounds as to the cause,some are blaming variously,buzzards,foxes,weather,our released birds,and other theories.Suffice to say this season so far is the worst in living memory.Has anyone else noticed similar in their neck of the woods?be interested to hear.

Last year was a poor here around Straffan in Kildare IMO and this year is shaping up as bad as far as I can see. Everyone would have a few ditches and fields youre sure to rise a few but they are slack compared to the better opening weeks I recall.Weve had poor late springs/ early summers particularly this year that wouldnt have helped( lot of vegtables this year bolted and went to seed in june/July which shows how cold it was).The buzzards set up shop here out of the blue about 6 years ago and are definitely doing very well but id be slow to jump to that as the cause.I dont know - every year is different I suppose.

Tommyaya4

All lot of lads out Sunday for the first some groups met no pheasants at all we put up 23 birds had 6 cocks between. 2 of us also went out yesterday had 4 more between 2 of us met 11 birds in two fields of maize stubble which was only cut 2 days plenty of birds if you know where that are we released a lot of cocks and hens into these areas 3 years ago starting to pay off now again in south tipp

Big Bangstick

Seen clubs that release hens instead of cocks to have a drastic effect on numbers available .

hathcock

Tommyaya4 wrote: »

All lot of lads out Sunday for the first some groups met no pheasants at all we put up 23 birds had 6 cocks between. 2 of us also went out yesterday had 4 more between 2 of us met 11 birds in two fields of maize stubble which was only cut 2 days plenty of birds if you know where that are we released a lot of cocks and hens into these areas 3 years ago starting to pay off now again in south tipp

We released hundreds of birds in the last few years,they seem to have dissapeared altogether.

Tommyaya4

I Know that some of the " Taditional" shooting lands around us where completely void of birds this year and these areas have always had release pens on them , we have put Hugh work into controlling foxes and have being leaving pigeons and crows in the ditches on decoying days for the buzzards the amount of buzzards we have around here is out of control but I read that the are less inclined to take live prey if the have a supply of carrion to Feed on

270WIN

wild pheasants very scarce here too. 7 or 8 buzzards moved in 4 years ago and pheasants gone down hill since. hares gone also...buzzards apparently are taking the young leverets. i came across a buzzard flying off from a cock pheasant carcase last week...where are all these buzzards suddenly coming from? they were never here years ago???

Straffan1979

270WIN wrote: »

wild pheasants very scarce here too. 7 or 8 buzzards moved in 4 years ago and pheasants gone down hill since. hares gone also...buzzards apparently are taking the young leverets. i came across a buzzard flying off from a cock pheasant carcase last week...where are all these buzzards suddenly coming from? they were never here years ago???

http://http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/buzzards-re-colonise-ireland-228327.html

Worth a read RE Buzzards

dodderangler

270WIN wrote: »

wild pheasants very scarce here too. 7 or 8 buzzards moved in 4 years ago and pheasants gone down hill since. hares gone also...buzzards apparently are taking the young leverets. i came across a buzzard flying off from a cock pheasant carcase last week...where are all these buzzards suddenly coming from? they were never here years ago???

Buzzard would do well to kill a fully grown cock pheasant.
Cats and foxes do a hell of a lot more damage to numbers than buzzards do. Buzzards primarily feed on young rabbits and rats.
They're opportunistic hunters aswell and will occasional take poults but fully grown cock pheasant will do a hell of a lot of damage to a buzzard

Birdnuts

270WIN wrote: »

wild pheasants very scarce here too. 7 or 8 buzzards moved in 4 years ago and pheasants gone down hill since. hares gone also...buzzards apparently are taking the young leverets. i came across a buzzard flying off from a cock pheasant carcase last week...where are all these buzzards suddenly coming from? they were never here years ago???

Buzzards might take the odd poult but work in Cork using actual direct evidence suggests their main diet is the likes of Crows,rabbits and rodents. I doubt it varies much anywhere else and that has been my experience on Blessington GC land which has a high density of buzzards for at least the last decade with little discernable affect on pheasant numbers or hares for that matter

"Early indications from dietary analysis of Buzzard pellets in Cork has shown that they are feeding largely on rabbits, rats, bank voles, rooks, magpies and woodpigeons. "


http://duhallow.blogspot.ie/p/buzzards-in-duhallow.html

Plus a buzzard despite its large wings only weighs 2-3 pounds and is a rather lazy inactive bird so a bit of roadkill or 2 averge sized rats would keep them going for a week

Birdnuts

hathcock wrote: »

The areas I've hunted for the past 30 years seem to be devoid of pheasants,I have never seen them as scarce,I'm in south Tipperary where there's always been a relatively plentiful supply.The other lads in our local club have the same complaint,one lad told me he has hunted the same place for thirty years on opening day,he failed to meet a single bird,a first.Speculation abounds as to the cause,some are blaming variously,buzzards,foxes,weather,our released birds,and other theories.Suffice to say this season so far is the worst in living memory.Has anyone else noticed similar in their neck of the woods?be interested to hear.

Some good reading on this issue I saw in the papers a few days ago

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/key-role-for-farmers-in-game-release-programmes-and-conservation-34163752.html

As the link shows, unless your doing habitat work etc. wild pheasants and other ground nesting birds will struggle to survive in areas of silage production which the likes of South Tipp would be dominated by given its large dairy industry. This along with much removal of hedgerows, scrub etc. on farmland in recent years has removed much potential breeding areas. Your best bet is to encourage as many farmers in your area to entire agri-environment schemes like GLAS which pays farmers to provide cover crops, sow wildflower meadows etc.

As for predation, foxes are by far the biggest issue in that regards as this study on the fate of released birds shows

http://www.gwct.org.uk/research/species/birds/common-pheasant/fate-of-released-pheasants/


PS: I should also mention another change that has affected conditions for wild birds in recent years. The change over from spring sown to winter sown crops. The former provided good stubble feeding throughout the autumn/winter and good breeding conditions the following spring. Unfortunately most of that has been lost in the changes to arable farming in the last few years:(

SureHowBad

I'd have to disagree with some of the statements above. We have noticed a huge increase in Buzzards in our club in the past 2 years and adversely a decrease in the pheasant population. I've seen a buzzard on a number of separate occasions take fully grown adult pheasants both pen reared and wild birds.

For the past 2 years in particular there seems to be a serious increase. I'm involved in rearing and releasing around 150 birds every year for the club and in the past two years I've done my usual of releasing birds into fields of beet with feeders. I normaly trap and shoot the areas for a few weeks before releasing to give the birds a good start but, for the last two years, I've had the same scenario repeated; no or the odd buzzard in the areas for the weeks leading upto to the release, release the pheasants on an afternoon to come back the following morning to see upwards of a dozen buzzards, perched around the beet fields watching the poults. I've also had reared birds in open top pens with their wings clipped killed and taken by Buzzards.

As for winter corn and silage cutting, both have serious effects on wild birds populations but, I'm in a club where we have a some large tillage farmers growing several thousand acres of winter crop between them, and multiple dairy herds cutting silage. The main thing is that, they are growing this amount of winter corn, and cutting silage at these levels since the early 80's. Yet the decline in pheasants for us has only been very noticable in the past 2 years as the buzzards have increased from 1s and 2s to flocks fo 15 and 20!

I'm not anti birds of prey and in fact I think it is fantastic to see them but, in the numbers that are in our area at the moment it is of a serious concern; particularily, as birdnuts mentions above, pheasants are under enough pressures as it is besides having flocks of buzzards hunting them as well!

Birdnuts

SureHowBad wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with some of the statements above. We have noticed a huge increase in Buzzards in our club in the past 2 years and adversely a decrease in the pheasant population. I've seen a buzzard on a number of separate occasions take fully grown adult pheasants both pen reared and wild birds.

For the past 2 years in particular there seems to be a serious increase. I'm involved in rearing and releasing around 150 birds every year for the club and in the past two years I've done my usual of releasing birds into fields of beet with feeders. I normaly trap and shoot the areas for a few weeks before releasing to give the birds a good start but, for the last two years, I've had the same scenario repeated; no or the odd buzzard in the areas for the weeks leading upto to the release, release the pheasants on an afternoon to come back the following morning to see upwards of a dozen buzzards, perched around the beet fields watching the poults. I've also had reared birds in open top pens with their wings clipped killed and taken by Buzzards.

As for winter corn and silage cutting, both have serious effects on wild birds populations but, I'm in a club where we have a some large tillage farmers growing several thousand acres of winter crop between them, and multiple dairy herds cutting silage. The main thing is that, they are growing this amount of winter corn, and cutting silage at these levels since the early 80's. Yet the decline in pheasants for us has only been very noticable in the past 2 years as the buzzards have increased from 1s and 2s to flocks fo 15 and 20!

I'm not anti birds of prey and in fact I think it is fantastic to see them but, in the numbers that are in our area at the moment it is of a serious concern; particularily, as birdnuts mentions above, pheasants are under enough pressures as it is besides having flocks of buzzards hunting them as well!

Theres nothing unusual about seeing a flock of buzzards in tillage fields in October. As you probably know these areas are hopping with rats, pigeons and other prey on the stubble and in the margins after crops have harvested. Below is 2 links showing buzzards feeding on crows and rats in such areas as I've seen them doing myself numerious times. In any case later in the winter and come spring these flocks break up as birds pair off and set up territitories in which the resident pair will not tolerate other buzzards while nesting and rearing young. In any case buzzards like other BOPS's are not wanton multiple killers like fox or mink as they can only get airbourne after a couple of grams of meat as any falconer who keeps BOP's will tell you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGNEXPPnI-8

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206932406660084&set=a.10206932405260049.1073741860.1575730328&type=3&theater

As for numbers of poults taken in and around release pens. A BASC study shows its typically a lot less than 5%, far lower than other source of losses like foxes, road casualties etc.

www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A253112.pdf

"a study designed to assess levels of game bird predation by raptors in general were found to be on average of the order of 1-2%, and exceptionally 5% (BASC). "

If a particular buzzard is hanging around a release pen then scaring devices like reflective tape, hung cd's or any type of scarecrow should cause them to move on

ben 11

One proven example of buzzards taking pheasants, from Shooting Times UK I know but i doubt English pheasant tastes any different

I can't post hyper links but copy and paste into Google or can somebody repost it with a live link

shootinguk.co.uk/news/gamekeeper-seeks-judicial-review-natural-england-buzzard-licence-41675

marknjb

whatever about fully grown birds surely they would pick up the chicks no problem

Birdnuts

marknjb wrote: »

whatever about fully grown birds surely they would pick up the chicks no problem

No ones disputing they might pick up the odd poult. Just pointing out that studies have shown they are not a significant factor in pheasant losses compared to habitat loss, foxes, road accidents, bad weather etc. Plus they are now found pretty much everwhere now bar parts of the West and SW and as the Nov 1st thread shows, plenty of people have had a good start to the season so blaming them for lack of pheasant in random areas around the country doesn't really add up. The Pheasant season was always variable year to year long before buzzards returned and that won't change in the future either.

allan450

Wet may/june/july is the main problem for low numbers same as for the grouse.

Tommyaya4

allan450 wrote: »

Wet may/june/july is the main problem for low numbers same as for the grouse.

We met no young grouse no big coveys and put up plenty of Barron pairs club decided that we would ask members to not Hunt them this year

Eddie B

This is my take on the whole thing! I believe Buzzards will take pheasants, full grown or polts, a Buzzards is well capable of handling both! Why not! Easy pray, especially reared birds!

Now, are they responsible for a major drop in pheasant numbers? Hardly! Think about it, how many buzzards are in an average gun club area compared to Fox's? Fox's which not only take adults and poultry, but destroy nests!

I think we are all guilty of pointing the finger at predators, and ignoring the real problem! Suitable habitat, sufficient game crops, and pesticides!

This is the area we tend to ignore, because this is the area which is hardest fix, sometimes impossible!

When I was a lad, tagging along with my father, he often came home with a bag of birds, on his own, single barrel, hunting ditches, and birds were everywhere! Another thing i remember, no one bothered with pest control back then! Timed have changed, more shooters, less birds, and less ground!

So yes buzzards do put extra pressure on birds, but they play a small part in the decline in bird numbers!

cd07

Having hunted with and owned several buzzards trust me there is no way they would tackle a full grown pheasant. They may certainly take the odd poult but I've never seen it myself. In my opinion a hen sparrowhawk would be a much more proficient bird to take poults and they escape a lot more blame than buzzards as they are not big obvious birds soaring in the sky. I think buzzards are being used as a soft target in this regard. Most falconers wouldn't use them as they don't have the same preditory charisma as say a Harris hawk or peregrine. I personally think birds of prey have a very minimal effect on pheasant numbers. as someone else mentioned cats foxes and above all else road fatalities are a much bigger cause of death.

Thomas Drennan

We are in the same boat but we are over run with buzzards which I blame for most of it as I have found lots of evidence to suggest so and the hare has suffered big time in our ariea also

blackpearl

Downfall of wild pheasants BUZZARDS end of story no point in defending them or talking about studies its all bull, they will stick with a wild cluch of poults till they wipe them have seen it with my own eyes in fact it was 2 cluches of pheasants over about 10 days 2 buzzards did the damage,not going to comment on this thread any more as talking about buzzards and the damage they do causes to much trouble on the forum.

270WIN

blackpearl wrote: »

Downfall of wild pheasants BUZZARDS end of story no point in defending them or talking about studies its all bull, they will stick with a wild cluch of poults till they wipe them have seen it with my own eyes in fact it was 2 cluches of pheasants over about 10 days 2 buzzards did the damage,not going to comment on this thread any more as talking about buzzards and the damage they do causes to much trouble on the forum.

at last someone says it as it is..i agree 100 %..buzzards will wipe out game clutches full stop. as blackpearl said i ve seem em hassling pheasant clutches all day till they are all gone..same with leverets..fact

Thomas Drennan

It's the same around me buzzards everywhere and I seen a full grown hare killed by one not a phesant in sight around me even after release some I think the national park and wildlife let them off but their out of control now

Thomas Drennan

Well I seen a buzzard kill a full grown hare and most of the phesants I release were kill and it was the same story a ball of feathers in a ring no like a fox kill since the buzzard came into our ariea the phesant numbers are decimate

marknjb

the number of buzzards has increased a lot lately add in mink pine martin foxes feral cats I am surprised there are any phesants at all also now u have mowers cutting 30ft so clutchs have no chance to get out of the way

merv35

marknjb. You hit the nail on the head it's the ard here

Capercaillie

Thomas Drennan wrote: »

Well I seen a buzzard kill a full grown hare and most of the phesants I release were kill and it was the same story a ball of feathers in a ring no like a fox kill since the buzzard came into our ariea the phesant numbers are decimate

I saw a buzzard killing a ram, flew off with him as well. Buzzard killed the neighbors bull as well and his horse.

cd07

thats right lads blame the buzzards. I've personally met idiotic clowns high ranking in gun clubs that have claimed to have shot a number of buzzards. is this what u want for our sport really? wise up learn your wildlife before talking complete nonsense. A buzzard killing a full grown hare? don't make me laugh... as I said before they're a soft target for narrow minded people. In any case pheasants are an introduced species and buzzards are native only having been decimated through the mindset shared by some on here. They have more right to be here than any introduced species. don't get me wrong shooting is my passion but so is the environment in which I shoot and I think every bird of prey has the right to be left alone and not to be persecuted on the back of here say from people who really haven't a clue....

Birdnuts

270WIN wrote: »

at last someone says it as it is..i agree 100 %..buzzards will wipe out game clutches full stop. as blackpearl said i ve seem em hassling pheasant clutches all day till they are all gone..same with leverets..fact

Really?? - take a trip to Boora or the North Slobs where you'll see herds of Hare's, convoys of pheasant and partridge and plenty of buzzards. Thats cos folks there have got off their ar$e and done some proper habitat work etc. But i suppose its easier to sit back and blame buzzards for this that and the other.

Cass

Once again the topic of Buzzards comes up and once again the thread goes off the rails with name calling, accusations and supposition.

The thread will be left to read, but closed for posts.

As a reminder, Buzzards are fully protected and any hint, let alone talk, of harming them, removing them or whatever way people like to subtly say they need got rid of is illegal and not allowed on this forum.