RWC 2015 final - All Blacks vs. Wallabies - Saturday 4pm

swiwi_

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GENERAL MUSINGS
On the 27th May 1987, my mum took me out of school for the afternoon and down to Lancaster Park. We sat in what became the Hadlee Stand (tickets must have cost less than $20 I reckon), and watched NZ defeat Fiji 74-13 in the 3rd match of Pool 3 of the inaugural rugby world cup. I don’t remember much of the match – I vaguely recall Green & Gallagher scoring tries for fun – but I do remember I had a great time. My dad insisted I play a year of soccer before I took up rugby, so my own glittering (ha ha) but relatively short-lived career didn’t get going until the following year. But I was already hooked on rugby.

THE CURRENT TOURNAMENT
The 1987 tournament might have been where it all began, and I have followed varying amounts of all the subsequent editions, but England 2015 is definitely the best so far. I must have watched close to 40 matches, and I think Japan vs South Africa will probably linger longest in the memory, certainly for the pool stages anyway. It has been pleasing to see the gap narrow between all the sides, probably only Namibia and Uruguay still count as genuine minnows, and even then they gave it a good lash.

The final brings together arguably the 2 most in-form teams over the course of the tournament, something which hasn’t happened since maybe 2003. Both teams generally like to play an expansive style, so the game promises to be entertaining and worthy of a final. The sides have met 3 times previously at the RWC, with semi-final defeats for NZ in 1991 (that pass from Campese) and 2003 (Mortlock intercept, “4 more years”), while NZ won in 2011 (Dagg does a Superman impression).

THAT MAN POCOCK
Not since Jonah Lomu has one man so defined a tournament and been so integral to his side’s chances of success. David Pocock has come back from not one but two serious knee injuries to give a tour de force at the breakdown. The combination of Pocock and Hooper, colloquially known as “Pooper” was too much for NZ in Sydney. In a brave, but criticised move, Australian coach Michael Cheika basically gifted NZ the Bledisloe Cup by breaking this duo up for the return match in Auckland, but no doubt he had an eye on an eventual meeting later in the year. How NZ deal with this threat may well define the victor.

THAT MAN CHEIKA
Just over a year ago, NZ defeated Australia, and a forlorn Ewen McKenzie headed down the tunnel and shortly after offered his resignation. Only days before their planned Northern tour, Cheika took the reigns, and Australia lost to France, Ireland and England. Since then, Cheika appears to have been amazingly canny behind the scenes, reinventing his coaching panel, securing the rights to Giteau & Mitchell, defeating NZ, winning the rugby championship, and reaching the RWC final from the pool of death. It’s quite amazing stuff.

STEVE
Hansen has also done a very good job. Being part of the 2007 coaching line-up, he appears to have taken virtually all of the lessons on-board. In particular, his decision to use the pool games for a specific purpose, and not just to blitz teams off the park, looks a wise one. He has also proven to be an excellent selector, mutterings about the form of Carter and SBW among others, have proven to be unfounded.

AUSTRALIA STRENGTHS
It’s fair to assume Australia should have some sort of an edge at the breakdown. In saying that, NZ has looked to win turnover ball in other ways than the classic “7 over the ball”, Dane Coles’ rip against France being an example.
The Australian scrum has also been a revelation, although things went less smoothly in the last 2 outings. NZ’s scrum is solid, but it definitely the least dominating aspect of their play.
I also think Australian confidence is an asset. No matter what the sport, or the odds, an Australian will always rate himself a chance.

NZ STRENGTHS
The NZ lineout has been superb this tournament. Not only highly reliable on their own throw, but also a thorn in the opposition side, notably at several key moments during the semi-final.
Less fatigue. NZ has only really had 2 tough matches – Argentina in week 1, and SA last week. In contrast, only Uruguay counted as a soft match for the Wallabies, and they looked fairly spent in the last 15 minutes vs Argentina.
Experience at closing out close matches. NZ has only lost a few matches since 2011, but their have been a number of close calls against South Africa, England, Australia and Ireland.
I’m not sure whether a strength or a potential weakness, but last games in black for McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Smith & Mealamu must play a role.

LUCK
Both teams have been pretty fortunate with injuries this tournament. NZ lost Woodcock, which most Kiwis thought was a blessing in disguise, while Aussie said goodbye to Skelton and Palu (also probably a blessing in disguise).

TTACTICS
I expect Aussie to try it on at the scrum, and also use Pocock at the back of the maul. Obviously the breakdown, and they have shown a few nice set moves this competition too.
For NZ, I won’t be surprised at a bit of tactical kicking and some pressure on Foley’s clearances. I also expect a bit of ball up the middle, rather than instantly spinning it wide, a tactic which didn’t work for a somewhat naïve Argentina. I then expect a bit more expansion as the game wears on, with NZ’s impressive bench coming into play.

PREDICTION
I’m not going to make one, other than to say it should be close. On paper at least, potentially the best final to date, which would be a stellar way to round of the 2015 edition.

Disclaimer: being a newby and all to this forum, I have no ability to link, attach, or generally spruce up the format. But the content is first-rate, so you'll just have to live with that.

Mod Edit: 29/10 Teams Added

Del.Monte

Good write up and like you I think it will be close, but like to dream that it will be otherwise with the All Blacks running wild.

It's going to be an emotional one for those of us who are All Blacks fans - Valete to Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Maa Nonu, Conrad Smith and more besides....but the future is looking bright with the Sam Cane ready (and now able) to take the big man's place at 7, Kieran Read to take on the Captain's mantle, Beauden Barrett the new heir apparent at fly-half - not to mention Julian Savea and Nehe Milner-Skudder. Whatever the outcome on Saturday it's been a privilege to watch this team in action over the years.

It seems written in the stars that Aussie will win. Cheika has turned this team around, they've beaten the All Blacks this year, escaped the group of death and wriggled out of a potential loss to Scotland.

That said, I hope the All Black's come out of the blocks firing, score a couple of quick tries, then put the squeeze on Australia for a slow, painful death

nehe milner skudder

Two days to go, 9 open threads above it and still on page one. Very surprised.

Allblacks team as expected.

Feel sorry for slade, Messam, tjp ,Romano etc. Never fired a shot.

Delighted for TKB who has come back from a horrendous knee injury suffered against SA a year ago.

Really happy that dezzy finally gets to play a RWC final . Regardless of result. He deserves to be there.

Putting the Andrex in the fridge now. Will be a #1 on the Bristol stool chart come Saturday night.

Zzippy

nehe milner skudder wrote: »

Putting the Andrex in the fridge now. Will be a #1 on the Bristol stool chart come Saturday night.

Must...resist...obvious...joke!!!!!


Ah f*ck it. Which orifice is that coming out of?

Yeah_Right

Hope NMS is fully fit. Thought Naholo might have gotten the call.

It sucks for some the guys who haven't gotten much game time but that's how world Cups are.

Agree with you about TKB. He must have been tearing it up on the training field as he has clearly leapfrogged TJP to be A Smith's back up.

Can't wait for this game!!

nehe milner skudder

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Hope NMS is fully fit. Thought Naholo might have gotten the call.

It sucks for some the guys who haven't gotten much game time but that's how world Cups are.

Agree with you about TKB. He must have been tearing it up on the training field as he has clearly leapfrogged TJP to be A Smith's back up.

Can't wait for this game!!

they love TKB's defence. He is a 9th forward. Very combative.

Although he was running lovely support lines against France.


The ****e will literally be falling out of me.







And I'll be talking it too

nehe milner skudder

Zzippy wrote: »

Must...resist...obvious...joke!!!!!


Ah f*ck it. Which orifice is that coming out of?

Ear

nehe milner skudder

Del.Monte wrote: »

Good write up and like you I think it will be close, but like to dream that it will be otherwise with the All Blacks running wild.

It's going to be an emotional one for those of us who are All Blacks fans - Valete to Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Maa Nonu, Conrad Smith and more besides....but the future is looking bright with the Sam Cane ready (and now able) to take the big man's place at 7, Kieran Read to take on the Captain's mantle, Beauden Barrett the new heir apparent at fly-half - not to mention Julian Savea and Nehe Milner-Skudder. Whatever the outcome on Saturday it's been a privilege to watch this team in action over the years.

The New Zealand succession planning has been incredible.

Look at Barrett -35 caps.
Savea - 40 caps

Sexton has 56 , Murray 42 and O Mahoney 35

Barrett is 6 years younger than sexton and already on 35 caps.

Yeah_Right

Anyone who likes Paddy Cullen's pub in Ballsbridge might want to visit it today or tomorrow. The NZ-Ireland Association and the Aussie-Ireland Association have both reserved areas there for Saturday. The place could get f***** up.

Zzippy

nehe milner skudder wrote: »

The New Zealand succession planning has been incredible.

Look at Barrett -35 caps.
Savea - 40 caps

Sexton has 56 , Murray 42 and O Mahoney 35

Barrett is 6 years younger than sexton and already on 35 caps.

Take it to the Ireland team thread if you want to talk about succession planning. This thread is just about the match.

nehe milner skudder

Zzippy wrote: »

Take it to the Ireland team thread if you want to talk about succession planning. This thread is just about the match.

The post I quoted talked about the Allblack future being in good stead? I was just comparing the caps to the team of the domain this website pertains to. I don't want to talk about Irish succession planning?

Zzippy

nehe milner skudder wrote: »

The post I quoted talked about the Allblack future being in good stead? I was just comparing the caps to the team of the domain this website pertains to. I don't want to talk about Irish succession planning?

There is no need to bring Irish succession planning into a thread about NZ v Aus. Furthermore, do not debate a mod decision in thread, if you have a problem with moderation PM the mod in question. Do it again and you can take a holiday.

nehe milner skudder

Zzippy wrote: »

There is no need to bring Irish succession planning into a thread about NZ v Aus. Furthermore, do not debate a mod decision in thread, if you have a problem with moderation PM the mod in question. Do it again and you can take a holiday.

New Zealand succession planning you mean?

I think my post has been misconstrued?

Apologies for any offence caused in any case.

Journeyman_1

Everybody keeps talking here about Barrett being the heir apparent to Carter, but he hasn't kicked on nearly as much as it looked like he would 18-24 months ago when he had all those super-sub appearances. IMO Cruden is a more consistent player and is able to get a backline playing as well as (or better than) anybody. It's a shame that he is injured atm, even if that meant seeing DC on the bench!

Read an article about this earlier too and the author mentioned that he has never lost a game while playing for NZ!

Yeah_Right

I think the AB 10 next year will be a battle between Cruden and Sopoaga to start and Barrett will be the bench player due to versatility.

nehe milner skudder

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think the AB 10 next year will be a battle between Cruden and Sopoaga to start and Barrett will be the bench player due to versatility.

The ironic thing is he will probably tear it up at ten for Wellington . Running in hatffuls of tries and making highlight reels week in week out. Because they have NMS, Woodward and Jane he isn't needed at 15.

But because of his serious wheels he is the perfect number 23 for the Allblacks . Covers 11,14,15 in a pinch and plies his trade at 10.

nehe milner skudder

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think the AB 10 next year will be a battle between Cruden and Sopoaga to start and Barrett will be the bench player due to versatility.

The ironic thing is he will probably tear it up at ten for Wellington . Running in hatffuls of tries and making highlight reels week in week out. Because they have NMS, Woodward and Jane he isn't needed at 15.

But because of his serious wheels he is the perfect number 23 for the Allblacks . Covers 11,14,15 in a pinch and plies his trade at 10.

Scythica

nehe milner skudder wrote: »

The ironic thing is he will probably tear it up at ten for Wellington . Running in hatffuls of tries and making highlight reels week in week out. Because they have NMS, Woodward and Jane he isn't needed at 15.

But because of his serious wheels he is the perfect number 23 for the Allblacks . Covers 11,14,15 in a pinch and plies his trade at 10.

Barrett is a poor mans Madigan is what you're saying? :pac:

nehe milner skudder

Scythica wrote: »

Barrett is a poor mans Madigan is what you're saying? :pac:

I wouldn't let Madigan give him a lift to an awards dinner.

sydthebeat

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think the AB 10 next year will be a battle between Cruden and Sopoaga to start and Barrett will be the bench player due to versatility.

if sopoaga continues his upward trajectory he would be a serious all black player.

i think he has more natural talent than cruden, and hes improved his goal kicking last season to acceptable levels

pickarooney

Battle of the hyphenates as Milner-Skudder and Ashley-Cooper stack the wings in a changing of the guard.

subfreq

No warm and fluffies this week between the coaches. Found the love in all a bit odd last week, it kind of told a story that Hansen wasn't really that worried about SAF to me.

Game faces are definitely on this week.

Zzippy

Hansen on the Aussies refusing to call them the all blacks: "They can call us whatever they want. Being Aussies, they probably will"

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

if sopoaga continues his upward trajectory he would be a serious all black player.

i think he has more natural talent than cruden, and hes improved his goal kicking last season to acceptable levels

I agree. He looked very comfortable in his AB debut at Ellis Park this year whereas it took Cruden a while to settle in at international level.

Yeah_Right

subfreq wrote: »

No warm and fluffies this week between the coaches. Found the love in all a bit odd last week, it kind of told a story that Hansen wasn't really that worried about SAF to me.

Game faces are definitely on this week.

There is a lot more respect and friendship between the ABs and the Boks than with the Aussies. I read an article in the NZ Herald about it recently that said its not just the coaches that get on well but the players as well. The Aussies not so much. I'm not saying they hate each other or there are no friendships, just not as many.

swiwi_

Zzippy wrote: »

Hansen on the Aussies refusing to call them the all blacks: "They can call us whatever they want. Being Aussies, they probably will"

I personally think this thing of calling the All Blacks anything but the All Blacks is totally lame. Lakers, Yankees, Rebels etc. If you require your team to call them NZ rather the ABs to get over some sort of "mental block", then I dunno, maybe the issues are deeper. Smacks of that PR disaster guy from the 05' Lions tour, the guy who worked for Tony Blair.

In case anyone cares (probably not...), my 2c for a NZ flyhalf to look out for in terms of the Lions 2017 is Damian McKenzie (Chiefs). Sopoaga, Cruden and Barrett will all be there or thereabouts, but the latter 2 have kicking issues (distance, accuracy) and Barrett can't control a game at the level required for international rugby. His bench appearances are invariably at fullback or NZ these days.

nehe milner skudder

swiwi_ wrote: »

I personally think this thing of calling the All Blacks anything but the All Blacks is totally lame. Lakers, Yankees, Rebels etc. If you require your team to call them NZ rather the ABs to get over some sort of "mental block", then I dunno, maybe the issues are deeper. Smacks of that PR disaster guy from the 05' Lions tour, the guy who worked for Tony Blair.

In case anyone cares (probably not...), my 2c for a NZ flyhalf to look out for in terms of the Lions 2017 is Damian McKenzie (Chiefs). Sopoaga, Cruden and Barrett will all be there or thereabouts, but the latter 2 have kicking issues (distance, accuracy) and Barrett can't control a game at the level required for international rugby. His bench appearances are invariably at fullback or NZ these days.

Alistair Campbell was the PR guy


Marty Mckenzie isn't too bad either.

PeterTheEighth

I know I'm petty, but I still havent forgiven NZ or Joubert for bestowing the RFC 2011 crown upon their heads.

I hope Australia win. :P

pickarooney

This is possibly the first game of the tournament where I really don't have a preference for who wins. Just hope it's a great game to finish a brilliant tournament.

CatFromHue

I wouldn't be too pushed but Oz winning would be better for the sport by hopefully giving rugby a bit of a boost in Oz so I'll be up for them.

Rjd2

Is it just me perplexed that this game is on at the Afternoon? Surely it should be at night time peak time viewing, and most importantly a time that would suit NZ and Aus better. I know neither were certs to be in the final, but at least one reaching it was to be expected.

subfreq

swiwi_ wrote: »

I personally think this thing of calling the All Blacks anything but the All Blacks is totally lame. Lakers, Yankees, Rebels etc. If you require your team to call them NZ rather the ABs to get over some sort of "mental block", then I dunno, maybe the issues are deeper. Smacks of that PR disaster guy from the 05' Lions tour, the guy who worked for Tony Blair.

Cheika has had a bit of fun with this one today.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/73513367/michael-cheika-breaks-all-blacks-taboo-with-poltergeist-theatrics

Zzippy

swiwi_ wrote: »

I personally think this thing of calling the All Blacks anything but the All Blacks is totally lame. Lakers, Yankees, Rebels etc. If you require your team to call them NZ rather the ABs to get over some sort of "mental block", then I dunno, maybe the issues are deeper. Smacks of that PR disaster guy from the 05' Lions tour, the guy who worked for Tony Blair.

By the sounds of Cheika's press conference today, it's an invention of the press and people like Mutt Wulliams who do have a problem with ABs moniker.

Yeah_Right

PeterTheEighth wrote: »

I know I'm petty, but I still havent forgiven NZ or Joubert for bestowing the RFC 2011 crown upon their heads.

I hope Australia win. :P

The bolded part, very true.

Ciaran-Irl

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The bolded part, very true.

No, I think you'll find that entire post was just as true.

Losty Dublin

swiwi_ wrote: »

Disclaimer: being a newby and all to this forum, I have no ability to link, attach, or generally spruce up the format. But the content is first-rate, so you'll just have to live with that.

Good write up for a novice. Errily similar to a former member with a similar name :pac:

philstar

Bragging rights are up for grabs big time...

For NZ to lose to Aus would be unbearable for them....it would be akin to Ireland losing a world cup final to england in croke park on st patrick's day, just too painful

so for that reason i hope the AB's do it

lunarhog

bloomin' eck, this thread is amazingly quiet for the biggest game in rugby. Can't wait for it myself, really looking forward to an intense battle and hopefully an Aussie victory!

Quint2010

Hope Australia win but I reckon the AB's will be just be too strong for them.

lunarhog

lunarhog wrote: »

bloomin' eck, this thread is amazingly quiet for the biggest game in rugby. Can't wait for it myself, really looking forward to an intense battle and hopefully an Aussie victory!

Seems a serious lack of Aussies for the #bantz.

After what Aussie did to NZ in the Cricket World Cup, I think it's only fair they let us have the rugby.

lunarhog

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/australia/11966056/Australia-coach-accidentally-reveals-gameplan-to-beat-New-Zealand-in-Rugby-World-Cup-final.html

Uh-oh, Australia letting the cat out of the bag here - or is it a double bluff?

lunarhog

lunarhog wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/australia/11966056/Australia-coach-accidentally-reveals-gameplan-to-beat-New-Zealand-in-Rugby-World-Cup-final.html

Uh-oh, Australia letting the cat out of the bag here - or is it a double bluff?

I don't think Australians are clever enough for a double bluff.

randomname2005

lunarhog wrote: »

bloomin' eck, this thread is amazingly quiet for the biggest game in rugby. Can't wait for it myself, really looking forward to an intense battle and hopefully an Aussie victory!

I was beginning to wonder if there was another thread I was missing!

Yeah_Right

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

No, I think you'll find that entire post was just as true.

So you jumped on that bandwagon. Good for you. How many times did you watch that match?

Yeah_Right

Can't wait for this game. So nervous. Don't know how I'm going to get through the next 22.5 hours.

subfreq

lunarhog wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/australia/11966056/Australia-coach-accidentally-reveals-gameplan-to-beat-New-Zealand-in-Rugby-World-Cup-final.html

Uh-oh, Australia letting the cat out of the bag here - or is it a double bluff?

Seems strange for both coaches to make such a simple gaff and the tacticss do seem overly simplistic. That said revealing any comment especially ones about such talented wingers would be a really dumb gamble on a double bluff.

Zzippy

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Can't wait for this game. So nervous. Don't know how I'm going to get through the next 22.5 hours.

Watch the game this evening. Take a drink (alcoholic) every time the commentator calls a player the wrong name. You should be just about awake and sober again by KO tomorrow.

DDC1990

Cannot wait. Have a Cat D ticket, fingers crossed the Aussies can put in a performance of a lifetime.

They will need it. NZ are scarily good if they are left to play away. The backrow battle is going to to be ferocious.

My head says NZ by 8 or 9 points, but it's a WC Final. Anything can happen.

Yeah_Right

DDC1990 wrote: »

Cannot wait. Have a Cat D ticket, fingers crossed the Aussies can put in a performance of a lifetime.

They will need it. NZ are scarily good if they are left to play away. The backrow battle is going to to be ferocious.

My head says NZ by 8 or 9 points, but it's a WC Final. Anything can happen.

I like your head.

Ciaran-Irl

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So you jumped on that bandwagon. Good for you. How many times did you watch that match?

No I didn't, and I have no idea. Irrelevant facts from four years ago don't usually stand out in my memory.

I have no interest in drudging up this argument though, so I won't bite again. Good luck tomorrow. Hope its a good game and may the best team win.