Thirties = old?

LeeLooLee

I'm a newbie here and on browsing around various forums, I've noticed that people seem to consider 30+ old in Ireland, especially women. Lots of panicking about being 30+ and single especially. I've been living abroad for quite a while and haven't really encountered this attitude at all. I recently turned 30, and while it was a bit of a kick up the arse in terms of feeling as if I hadn't sorted out my career/finances, I don't feel as if I'm on the shelf just yet! I live in Spain, and here people of 30 are still considered 'jovenes' (young people). It's totally normal to still live at home with your parents at that age, even moreso now that the country is in an economic crisis (like Ireland but worse). Nobody expects you to be all sorted by your early thirties. The vast majority of my 30-something friends here are single and a lot of them are still studying and figuring out what they want to do. I'm even considered a bit of a go-getter because I've started my own business and live on my own in a flat!

Reading some of the threads here, I can't imagine the pressure I'd feel if I lived in Ireland. Despite the recession and lack of jobs, it seems as if people are still expected to do the whole marriage/kids/house thing at a relatively young age. What do yous think?

Shelga

I'm 28 and sometimes feel a little anxious about turning 30, I don't know quite where the anxiety comes from though. Like you, I do sort of see it as milestone where I should have certain career and finance goals ticked.

It's a combination of factors that cause this feeling- media pressure for sure, work colleagues constantly calling me 30 already as a 'joke' :rolleyes:, which they'd never make to men, feeling that ticking clock already, feeling like I need to decide in the next year or two whether to stay here in England or move home to Dublin, fear of my looks fading and being unattractive, fear that my age will, like it or not, start to influence what relationship I'm in to an extent. I don't mean settling with someone who's wrong, it's difficult to explain. More that the spontaneity and fun will die down a bit as I naturally look to the future more.

Conversely, I absolutely love the financial independence I have at this age and in that sense these are the best years of my life, much more so than college in some regards. I can pretty much do whatever I want in terms of nice holidays, buying what I want when I want, living on my own, weekends away with the girls, eating out etc. I want to really savour that in the next 3-5 years before (if I'm fortunate ) kids and family commitments creep in.

Sometimes when I do see a really confident, successful and attractive woman in her 40s or 50s on TV, films or the news, I'm reminded that life can get better and better as you get older, and those role models are in fact lacking for us a lot more so than men in mainstream media. Examples would be the likes of Julianne Moore, Michelle Mone, Amal Clooney, Deirdre O'Kane, Sharon Horgan etc. Women I personally feel I identify with on some level and who exude that intangible confidence and coolness, letting me know everything will be just fine :P

I also know how silly it is to feel anxious about getting older, and how fortunate I am, so then I just beat myself up over worrying about it- do the guilt trips ever end!

LeeLooLee

Shelga wrote: »

Conversely, I absolutely love the financial independence I have at this age and in that sense these are the best years of my life, much more so than college in some regards. I can pretty much do whatever I want in terms of nice holidays, buying what I want when I want, living on my own, weekends away with the girls, eating out etc. I want to really savour that in the next 3-5 years before (if I'm fortunate ) kids and family commitments creep in.

See, this is where I wonder where I'm going wrong. I always assumed I'd have plenty of spare cash in my late twenties/early thirties to spend on myself, but I don't at all! Just booked myself a trip to San Francisco because it's always been a dream to go, but it's going to be a hell of a struggle to pay for it. Whacked it on the credit card, and hopefully I'll be able to do private English lessons for kids here to try to pay some of it off, because everything I earn goes on the essentials (rent, bills, food). Other than that I do nothing extravagant at all. Bought a new pair of jeans in Zara for 30 euro the other day (just because my old ones were falling apart) and felt mega guilty! Have you a very good job?

I know what you mean about the guilt trips. I think there is far too much pressure on women as we get older. 28 is seriously SO young though! I think most women look fantastic well into their forties. I have friends here who are 35 and they still dress and act like young women - you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between them and a 28-year-old.

Shelga

LeeLooLee wrote: »

See, this is where I wonder where I'm going wrong. I always assumed I'd have plenty of spare cash in my late twenties/early thirties to spend on myself, but I don't at all! Just booked myself a trip to San Francisco because it's always been a dream to go, but it's going to be a hell of a struggle to pay for it. Whacked it on the credit card, and hopefully I'll be able to do private English lessons for kids here to try to pay some of it off, because everything I earn goes on the essentials (rent, bills, food). Other than that I do nothing extravagant at all. Bought a new pair of jeans in Zara for 30 euro the other day (just because my old ones were falling apart) and felt mega guilty! Have you a very good job?

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was gloating. I have a good job yeah, but I used to get horribly stressed in college about grades, and had to emigrate over here to England to get this good job. Not a big deal I know but now leaves me constantly balancing up the pros and cons of staying vs returning- a common problem for those who graduated between 2008-2012 I believe. Definitely don't think I'd have as much disposable income in Dublin, and I don't live anywhere near London which helps.

I also really struggled with my confidence when I first started the job here, and didn't think I was good enough, so now that I'm finally comfortable with my lot I plan to enjoy it. I also have hardly any savings so definitely need to be more frugal!

These days most of my peers still seem to be figuring out career and money well into their 30s and beyond, I'd try not to dwell on it. Hardly anyone I know my age has kids for example, whereas it would have been a lot different 20-30 years ago. My mam was the oldest in her group to get married at 32 in 1982, I'd say that's around the norm now.

LeeLooLee

Shelga wrote: »

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was gloating. I have a good job yeah, but I used to get horribly stressed in college about grades, and had to emigrate over here to England to get this good job. Not a big deal I know but now leaves me constantly balancing up the pros and cons of staying vs returning- a common problem for those who graduated between 2008-2012 I believe. Definitely don't think I'd have as much disposable income in Dublin, and I don't live anywhere near London which helps.

I also really struggled with my confidence when I first started the job here, and didn't think I was good enough, so now that I'm finally comfortable with my lot I plan to enjoy it. I also have hardly any savings so definitely need to be more frugal!

These days most of my peers still seem to be figuring out career and money well into their 30s and beyond, I'd try not to dwell on it. Hardly anyone I know my age has kids for example, whereas it would have been a lot different 20-30 years ago. My mam was the oldest in her group to get married at 32 in 1982, I'd say that's around the norm now.

Ah no not at all - hope to be in that position at some stage! I left Ireland also, in 2009, and have been living abroad since but have yet to make any big bucks. What field are you in?

Lux23

There is a difference between mature and old. At times I am very mature, I like all my bills to be paid before I get them and I hate owing money to anyone. But I have feck all savings. Plus everything was going well for me at 30 but a day before my 31st birthday I was let go. That was a bit of a shock and I spent the next 18 months working part-time in a pub and meeting all sorts of mad characters. It was kind of like a gap year for me and I was far more adventurous in my early 30s then I was in my early 20s.

So no I don't feel old in my 30s, if anything I feel like it is still acceptable to be a bit clueless in your 30s now. Not everyone has a mortgage/pension and a car by the time they are 30 and I don't believe anyone thinks you have to.

LeeLooLee

Lux23 wrote: »

There is a difference between mature and old. At times I am very mature, I like all my bills to be paid before I get them and I hate owing money to anyone. But I have feck all savings. Plus everything was going well for me at 30 but a day before my 31st birthday I was let go. That was a bit of a shock and I spent the next 18 months working part-time in a pub and meeting all sorts of mad characters. It was kind of like a gap year for me and I was far more adventurous in my early 30s then I was in my early 20s.

So no I don't feel old in my 30s, if anything I feel like it is still acceptable to be a bit clueless in your 30s now. Not everyone has a mortgage/pension and a car by the time they are 30 and I don't believe anyone thinks you have to.

I was thinking more about people on here and my friends back home saying "I'm still single at 30 so little chance of me getting married/having a family now" or people questioning why I still stay in hostels "at my age". As if you're well and truly over the hill once you're past 30. I went home for a visit a few weeks ago and a male acquaintance told me I should find a man quickly before I "lose my looks"!

eviltwin

I'm 38 and I don't feel old. I haven't changed much from when I was in my twenties, I'm more mature, like Lux mentioned I will pay a bill before buying something for myself but I was always like that. I did settle down young and had a mortgage and family in my mind twenties but went back to college and changed career at 35 so definitely wasn't sorted work wise until very recently. I don't know, I don't pay much attention to what the media or society thinks I should be doing. I please myself. I think a lot of pressure is self inflicted from listening to people who don't matter. You just have to ignore it.

Carlos Orange

There are only a few things in life where your age matters. Other than having a kid and buying a house it is just a number.
Spain (median age 41.6) is an older country than Ireland (median age 35.7) though so I guess it kinda makes sense they would have a slightly different attitude to what young means (leaving aside other cultural differences).
The only time I ever felt old is last year when someone asked me why I never got married. I'm 36, seems a little early for a question like that.

Addle

I'm in my mid 30s and am sorry I didn't behave more maturely earlier in life.

It really is time to have certain things in order.

I'm bad with money. I have a mortgage now, but if I had my time over again, I'd have started to save earlier.
I had a great time in my 20s, but a lot of it was wasteful.

I'm not affected by the pressures of a biological clock, but if you're someone who wants children, then

Addle

you'll be considered a geriatric mother from your mid 30s, if you're lucky enough not to have fertility issues.

When I think back to when I was a teen, teachers and aunts were 'old' to me, and they were younger then than I am now.

I think a lot of people need to get real and accept the responsibilities that age brings.

LeeLooLee

Addle wrote: »

you'll be considered a geriatric mother from your mid 30s, if you're lucky enough not to have fertility issues.

When I think back to when I was a teen, teachers and aunts were 'old' to me, and they were younger then than I am now.

I think a lot of people need to get real and accept the responsibilities that age brings.

See, this is what I mean. The pressuring and the guilt tripping. I would like to have kids, but I'm single. I spent 8 years with a man I thought I'd marry, only for him to dump me when I was 29 and tell me he didn't love me anymore. What should I do, go and shack up with the next man I see so I don't 'leave it too late'? Or should I get on with my life and hope I'll meet someone I click with? I think it would be more responsible to wait until I'm in a good place myself, with my career more solid and a loving long-term partner than to rush into having babies because some clock might be ticking.

What 'responsibilities' are you talking about? You didn't specify how/why you feel you wasted money.

LeeLooLee

Teabags Trevor wrote: »

28 is not "SO young". It's young still but at 28 your fertility has already been dropping off.

This is what I mean!!! Nobody here would say anything like that. What is the point in saying things like this, honestly? Firstly, recent research has shown that most women are fertile far longer than previously thought. Secondly, what is she going to do about it right now?

LeeLooLee

Teabags Trevor wrote: »

Age is not just a number in reality. If you are 60 and you want a 25 year old boyfriend or girlfriend that's going to be difficult.

I know plenty of couples with pretty big age gaps. All extremely happy.

Addle

LeeLooLee wrote:

This is what I mean!!! Nobody here would say anything like that. What is the point in saying things like this, honestly? Firstly, recent research has shown that most women are fertile far longer than previously thought. Secondly, what is she going to do about it right now?

The point is that it is true for a lot of people.
Fair enough, you can't do anything about it if you're not in a serious relationship, but plenty of long term couples put off starting a family with the excuse of careers and lifestyle choice, and regret it.
I write of experience of about half of my friends.
It's heart breaking to see them so upset now over something they took for granted for too long.

Addle

LeeLooLee wrote: »

What 'responsibilities' are you talking about? You didn't specify how/why you feel you wasted money.

The responsibility of having a home and family.
If I had one less holiday out of about 6 in the 3 years prior to buying my house, I'd have €6,000 extra to spend on furnishings, and when I look back on that time, I, personally, would prefer to have spent the money on my home.

I have a couple of friends who bemoan their inability to buy their own home now, but they're still living the frivolous lifestyle they had in their 20s. Unless you've plenty of money, you can't have it all.

I'm not guilt tripping. Just giving my opinion. I also had a very long term relationship that ended when I hit 30.

My responsibilities may have changed, but my mindset hasn't.

meeeeh

I don't think what ifs are healthy. Neither is being with someone just so you can kids. There is no one model fits all solution. There are 16 years olds who will think you are ancient at 30 and there are 60 years olds who will think you are a spring chicken. However there are no guarantees you will be able to have kids at 20, there are less at 30 and even less at 40. And sometimes things just don't happen, having a child, happy marriage, being rich or successful or whatever else are just luxury that unfortunately not all of us can achieve.

It doesn't matter if one is perceived young or old, it matters how we feel about it. For me, I can't say I am ecstatic that I am closer to fifty than twenty. But I do smile at my 18 years old self who thought life is finished at 30. Despite two kids and a house life is still a mess, account balance still dismal, work still challenging (mildly put) and one is still able to have fun in mid to late thirties. I don't know about forties though, that seems totally terrifying.


,

Fillet Mignon

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think what ifs are healthy. Neither is being with someone just so you can kids. There is no one model fits all solution. There are 16 years olds who will think you are ancient at 30 and there are 60 years olds who will think you are a spring chicken. However there are no guarantees you will be able to have kids at 20, there are less at 30 and even less at 40. And sometimes things just don't happen, having a child, happy marriage, being rich or successful or whatever else are just luxury that unfortunately not all of us can achieve.

It doesn't matter if one is perceived young or old, it matters how we feel about it. For me, I can't say I am ecstatic that I am closer to fifty than twenty. But I do smile at my 18 years old self who thought life is finished at 30. Despite two kids and a house life is still a mess, account balance still dismal, work still challenging (mildly put) and one is still able to have fun in mid to late thirties. I don't know about forties though, that seems totally terrifying.


,

Why would someone think life is finished at 30? It quite clearly isn't, average life expectancy is about 76.

metaoblivia

I think 30s being perceived as old for women is definitely connecting to declining fertility and the loss of that youthful glow. I'm 34 and it's hard for me to believe how quickly it's all going! You definitely feel young in your 20s, but by the time you get to your 30s, I think it hits you that time goes by pretty quickly and you don't stay the same, mentally or physically, forever. At least, it did for me.

One of my pet peeves is the constant lecturing about fertility declining. It bothers me because it gets mentioned so much, and people seem to think that those of us who are single and childless in our 30s somehow don't know this or are in denial about it. I'm not in denial, I just haven't met someone with whom I'd want to have a child with. I'm not going to go pop out a kid just because my time is running out. Raising a kid is freaking hard, and I'm not onboard unless I am in a stable relationship with a partner who's 100% on board too. And if that doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I've made my peace with that.

Sunflower 27

Be grateful you get to your thirties. Sadly, many don't. I turned 43 yesterday. Am grateful and wouldnt go back to my youth for anything even if I could.

My 20s and 30s were chaotic and fun, but you can't sustain that forever.

Wisdom comes with age and it makes life a hell of a lot easier. I still have fun, of course, but I am far more relaxed and the friends I have now are salt of the earth, been there for me through all my ups and downs.

I will never understand the obsession with getting older. It happens to us all if we are lucky. Stop thinking about it and live your life. It passes so quick!!

lisasimpson

Its definately pressure from society that makes you feel old.im hitting 33 i still cant get over how quick the years are passing.
I get the whole settling down talk of certain people...its not that i choose to be single it just hasnt happened for me.my last serious relationship ended 8 years ago...its not as if i havent tried to met someone.in the space of time there have been a few short lived flings ive tried on line dating etc...nearly all my friends are coupled up so my social life is limited now.
Id love my own place.im good with money i still enjoy a good holiday but still save regularly for a house.i even often get asked would you ever consider getting your own place.yes im trying to but single person on your own if v tough near a city

Addle

I'm actually looking forward to 40!!!

I must be some sort of aberration as I'm not interested in furthering my 'career' or having children.

At 40, hopefully others might stop presuming I'll change my mind.

Teafor two12345

I just lie. :-)

LeeLooLee

metaoblivia wrote: »

I think 30s being perceived as old for women is definitely connecting to declining fertility and the loss of that youthful glow. I'm 34 and it's hard for me to believe how quickly it's all going! You definitely feel young in your 20s, but by the time you get to your 30s, I think it hits you that time goes by pretty quickly and you don't stay the same, mentally or physically, forever. At least, it did for me.

One of my pet peeves is the constant lecturing about fertility declining. It bothers me because it gets mentioned so much, and people seem to think that those of us who are single and childless in our 30s somehow don't know this or are in denial about it. I'm not in denial, I just haven't met someone with whom I'd want to have a child with. I'm not going to go pop out a kid just because my time is running out. Raising a kid is freaking hard, and I'm not onboard unless I am in a stable relationship with a partner who's 100% on board too. And if that doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I've made my peace with that.

Yes, that's what I don't get. And it always seems to be the woman's fault - look at all the shaming comments women get. As if it's that simple to meet someone and pop out a kid. No thought to the economic situation, wanting to be in a secure relationship, having your own house and how difficult it can be to find all that in this day and age.

My situation is a bit different because I had a load of health problems in my twenties and spent most of the time back and forth to the hospital. So I missed out on all the 'have a great time and don't worry' stuff, and am only catching up on that now. Only to find that every time I go home, I get lectured about settling down!

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Be grateful you get to your thirties. Sadly, many don't. I turned 43 yesterday. Am grateful and wouldnt go back to my youth for anything even if I could.

My 20s and 30s were chaotic and fun, but you can't sustain that forever.

Wisdom comes with age and it makes life a hell of a lot easier. I still have fun, of course, but I am far more relaxed and the friends I have now are salt of the earth, been there for me through all my ups and downs.

I will never understand the obsession with getting older. It happens to us all if we are lucky. Stop thinking about it and live your life. It passes so quick!!

I am grateful. My best friend died at 26 and I was very sad when I turned 30 a few weeks ago that she never got to do that.

It's great to hear that you reckon it gets better and life gets easier. I'm already feeling much more comfortable with myself at 30 and hope that continues!

lisasimpson wrote: »

Its definately pressure from society that makes you feel old.im hitting 33 i still cant get over how quick the years are passing.
I get the whole settling down talk of certain people...its not that i choose to be single it just hasnt happened for me.my last serious relationship ended 8 years ago...its not as if i havent tried to met someone.in the space of time there have been a few short lived flings ive tried on line dating etc...nearly all my friends are coupled up so my social life is limited now.
Id love my own place.im good with money i still enjoy a good holiday but still save regularly for a house.i even often get asked would you ever consider getting your own place.yes im trying to but single person on your own if v tough near a city

Yes, exactly. The years do seem to pass by so quickly once you get into your late twenties. 29 especially flew by for me. I totally know what you mean about getting your own place. It was always my dream to have a beautiful little apartment to myself, but it's so hard to afford it. I'm renting a place of my own at the minute and it's amazing. I'm so much happier than I was flatsharing or living with my ex. I think you end up becoming super independent when single for a long time - I know this is the case with some of my best friends.

Teafor two12345

LeeLooLee wrote: »

I am grateful. My best friend died at 26 and I was very sad when I turned 30 a few weeks ago that she never got to do that.

.

I can imagine. My brother had two friends that past other young than that within a year and a half of each other. It hit him pretty hard it hit his group as a whole pretty hard actually.

I always think it’s harder when a younger person goes. I had an older female friend with a teen daughter. Younger than me but still relatable. We visited her when she got sick and bought a piece of jewellery from her that she made. When she died we went to the funeral even though she was a teen the coffin was white. When they lifted it up someone behind me said ‘Oh god the coffin is so small’ I lost it I cried my eyes out. She was into the arts etc. I on some occasions think she would be doing this now etc. Her mom used to have a party for her every year on her birthday.
I went to a funeral for an older person recently it was the Dad of a friend. I had never met him I guess. Although I left wishing I had. But it was easier for me i think him being older. I just wanted to be there for my friend really.
I thought his dad would be so proud of his son that day of all his sons and family. It did make me want to wrap my own family up in cotton wool though.

It puts rubbish like age into perspective really.

I wanna go hug my mom now !

Teafor two12345

Hugged her :-)

Lux23

The whole having kids thing annoys me too. I am 33 but I am not ready financially or emotionally to have a kid yet so I will wait, if that means it won't happen then I accept that.

LeeLooLee

Lux23 wrote: »

The whole having kids thing annoys me too. I am 33 but I am not ready financially or emotionally to have a kid yet so I will wait, if that means it won't happen then I accept that.

THIS to me is responsible. Not popping out a kid because you feel like time is running out, regardless of whether or not you can support him or her. Honestly though, here where I live, nobody would even be insinuating you're too old. Of course people are aware of fertility issues, but it seems like over here, that doesn't even START to register until 34/35. That's about the age most people get married and buy a house, if they want to do the marriage/family thing. The vast majority of couples I know who married at 35+ now have (healthy) kids, and the idea seems to be 'if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen, or we'll try to adopt'. There's not as much of the shaming and panic that seems to go on in Ireland.

meeeeh

Fertility rate in Ireland is 2 kids per woman, it's1.3 in Spain. If you don't want more than one or two kids there is less pressure. Adoption is almost impossible in Ireland atm as far as I know.

People in different countries are under different pressures. Spain has huge youth unemployment so that pushes things back a bit. average mother's age having first child is a year higher in Spain but mothers in Ireland and Spain are among oldest in EU. It's more likely the pressures to have children younger are more significant in other EU countries. I'm not sure though that there would be as much pressure to get married, cohabitation seems to be higher and more acceptable on the continent.

LeeLooLee

meeeeh wrote: »

Fertility rate in Ireland is 2 kids per woman, it's1.3 in Spain. If you don't want more than one or two kids there is less pressure. Adoption is almost impossible in Ireland atm as far as I know.

People in different countries are under different pressures. Spain has huge youth unemployment so that pushes things back a bit. average mother's age having first child is a year higher in Spain but mothers in Ireland and Spain are among oldest in EU. It's more likely the pressures to have children younger are more significant in other EU countries. I'm not sure though that there would be as much pressure to get married, cohabitation seems to be higher and more acceptable on the continent.

Ireland has massive unemployment/underemployment as well. I was basically forced to emigrate and that set me back quite a few years. Likewise, a lot of Spanish women in their late twenties and early thirties are going away to start new lives in England or Germany. I think people here are more understanding of the fact that it's tough to even make any kind of living these days if you're young, let alone start a family.

meeeeh

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Ireland has massive unemployment/underemployment as well. I was basically forced to emigrate and that set me back quite a few years. Likewise, a lot of Spanish women in their late twenties and early thirties are going away to start new lives in England or Germany. I think people here are more understanding of the fact that it's tough to even make any kind of living these days if you're young, let alone start a family.

I am not dismissing the hardships young people here are going through but there is a significant difference between Ireland and Spain and more importantly there seems to be significant historical difference. The expectations are not something that adapts instantly.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/spain/youth-unemployment-rate
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/youth-unemployment-rate

Teafor two12345

Sometimes it's best not to overthink this stuff!

kylith

I don't want to wait until I'm Financially secure to start a family? What does that even mean!? No matter how much you have in the bank I don't think you'd ever have enough, and you could be earning 100k, have a kid, and lose your job a week later anyway. And what if it never happens? I don't want to deny myself of something I really want over my salary.

My issue is finding a partner. My last two relationships strung me along with 'later, later... What do you mean fertility issues?' Until I had to end it. I've recently met a guy I really like and, yet again, 'kids? Gee, I don't know...'

I feel like I'm getting to the stage where I'll have to take a trip to a sperm bank, or the Irish version: go to Coppers and find a fella with a good set of teeth and no obvious disfigurement.

Teafor two12345

kylith wrote: »

I feel like I'm getting to the stage where I'll have to take a trip to a sperm bank, or the Irish version: go to Coppers and find a fella with a good set of teeth and no obvious disfigurement.

You want a wing girl? ;-P

meeeeh

kylith wrote: »

I feel like I'm getting to the stage where I'll have to take a trip to a sperm bank, or the Irish version: go to Coppers and find a fella with a good set of teeth and no obvious disfigurement.

Lol
That's brilliant!

Teafor two12345

I think we can do better than coppers though. A posh Irish sperm bank! We can try somewhere on Dawson st.

LeeLooLee

kylith wrote: »

I don't want to wait until I'm Financially secure to start a family? What does that even mean!? No matter how much you have in the bank I don't think you'd ever have enough, and you could be earning 100k, have a kid, and lose your job a week later anyway. And what if it never happens? I don't want to deny myself of something I really want over my salary.

My issue is finding a partner. My last two relationships strung me along with 'later, later... What do you mean fertility issues?' Until I had to end it. I've recently met a guy I really like and, yet again, 'kids? Gee, I don't know...'

I feel like I'm getting to the stage where I'll have to take a trip to a sperm bank, or the Irish version: go to Coppers and find a fella with a good set of teeth and no obvious disfigurement.

Having at least a permanent job or a good bank of savings built up. I'm just starting up my own business, and having had to invest in equipment and take on an accountant, I have practically no disposable income right now. I'm able to support myself, but there's no way I could support a family. That's not being negative, it's being realistic. I am very optimistic about the future, but it's going to take a bit of time to start getting clients and building up the business. Of course you never know what could happen in the future, but not being in a good position to even start with isn't responsible, IMO. If I had a kid right now, we'd be living in poverty. I'm not a materialistic person, but lying awake wondering how I'm going to pay the electricity bill or buy nappies isn't something I want.

Regarding your second point. Yes, men tend to do that, in my experience. Sure, my ex did it. Strung me along for 8 years before telling me he never saw himself marrying or having kids with me. Didn't see what was cruel about that at all. Didn't understand that I could have met someone else or done other things with my life in my twenties.

Teafor two12345

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Having at least a permanent job or a good bank of savings built up. I'm just starting up my own business, and having had to invest in equipment and take on an accountant, I have practically no disposable income right now. I'm able to support myself, but there's no way I could support a family. That's not being negative, it's being realistic. I am very optimistic about the future, but it's going to take a bit of time to start getting clients and building up the business. Of course you never know what could happen in the future, but not being in a good position to even start with isn't responsible, IMO. If I had a kid right now, we'd be living in poverty. I'm not a materialistic person, but lying awake wondering how I'm going to pay the electricity bill or buy nappies isn't something I want.

Regarding your second point. Yes, men tend to do that, in my experience. Sure, my ex did it. Strung me along for 8 years before telling me he never saw himself marrying or having kids with me. Didn't see what was cruel about that at all. Didn't understand that I could have met someone else or done other things with my life in my twenties.

I am with kylith up to a point. I have none of that security stuff. I still would not let a guy string me along. It's not all or nothing.

Teafor two12345

He has to commit! Step up dammit!

Teafor two12345

I am not waiting for ages to start a family......with this guy i have not even met yet :-/

LeeLooLee

Teafor two12345 wrote: »

I am with kylith up to a point. I have none of that security stuff. I still would not let a guy string me along. It's not all or nothing.

You don't know it until it's too late, though. He seemed totally committed. All future talk was about the two of us. We'd been living together for a few years (neither of us was really interested in marriage). Talk of kids and all that. I went through yet another very rough patch with my health at 29 and he was off. Apparently my health issues were draining and he wanted to be out having fun and drinking, like all his mates were doing (he was 31 at this stage). C'est la vie.

Teafor two12345

LeeLooLee wrote: »

You don't know it until it's too late, though. He seemed totally committed. All future talk was about the two of us. We'd been living together for a few years (neither of us was really interested in marriage). Talk of kids and all that. I went through yet another very rough patch with my health at 29 and he was off. Apparently my health issues were draining and he wanted to be out having fun and drinking, like all his mates were doing (he was 31 at this stage). C'est la vie.

I'm sorry to hear it Lee

At least he is gone now.

kylith

LeeLooLee wrote: »

You don't know it until it's too late, though. He seemed totally committed. All future talk was about the two of us. We'd been living together for a few years (neither of us was really interested in marriage). Talk of kids and all that.

Same here; living together for years, was good with kids, said he wanted them, said pregnant women were sexy; and then I pushed for 'one day' to be 'within an actual time-frame' and, tbh, he seemed out to get me to finish it - became moody, tetchy, stopped giving a damn. I blame myself really; looking back the warning signs were all there beforehand.

Teafor two12345

kylith wrote: »

he seemed out to get me to finish it - became moody, tetchy, stopped giving a damn. I blame myself really;

Don't blame yourself. TO be honest would you have wanted that type of guy as a father for your kid? No.

kylith

Anywho - we're miles off topic.

Your 30s isn't old at all, but in some respects it's getting there. In my head I feel the same as I did when I was in my 20s.

Lyaiera

My mother is in her sixties and if I had the cheek to call her old I'd be made to regret it. And I wouldn't call her that anyway, she's not old in any way that counts. I have friends in their teens, twenties, thirties, forties and fifties and although there are differences between them, whether they have kids, or their own place, or a steady job, or a high-acheiving career, there's not much difference between the people as people.

I know people in thier fifties going from job to job and renting apartments, and I know people in their thirties with careers and who are house hunting or having kids, and I know teenagers not old enough to buy alcohol who are more capable and responsible than most. I don't see much difference between those people. As far as what they should be doing? Who cares? They're good people, some have different responsiblities, some have different approaches to life but they're all people I enjoy spending time with.

When I was a teenager, or in my early twenties and you asked me what old is I could probably have given you a number, an age. If you asked me now I'd honestly tell you it's an attitude and for me it's tied to being tired, and ready to give up. I know people in their twenties like that, and I know people, like my mother in her sixties who is as determined, strong willed and full of vigour as someone half her age.

Stheno

I'm 42, seperated and own a house with my ex husband.

I'm in a career I love and really enjoy.


Most of the time I think I look and dress better than I certainly did in my twenties when I lived in black, and refined it through my thirties.

I'm now confident the past few years to go for a drink on my own in a bar, to attend events with my partner where I know no one, and to strike up conversations and enjoy myself.

I've never wanted children so that doesn't come into it for me.

My partner is ten years older than I am too

At this age, I probably feel more secure and settled than ever before tbh.

LeeLooLee

Stheno wrote: »

I'm 42, seperated and own a house with my ex husband.

I'm in a career I love and really enjoy.


Most of the time I think I look and dress better than I certainly did in my twenties when I lived in black, and refined it through my thirties.

I'm now confident the past few years to go for a drink on my own in a bar, to attend events with my partner where I know no one, and to strike up conversations and enjoy myself.

I've never wanted children so that doesn't come into it for me.

My partner is ten years older than I am too

At this age, I probably feel more secure and settled than ever before tbh.

Confidence is the biggest unexpected bonus of getting older for me. I went to meet a friend in a bar tonight and he was running 30 mins late. I went into the bar on my own, ordered a beer, had a chat with the barman and a few other customers and sat there happily reading my Kindle, genuinely feeling relaxed and comfortable. It doesn't sound like a big deal, but I could never have done that a few years ago. I'm sure some people were looking at me and wondering why I was there alone, but the difference now is that I couldn't give a sh1te what they thought!

Azalea

It's not old of course - that's silly. But it's not that young. Some people say they feel the same in their 30s as they did in their 20s - my own personal experience is different to that, I definitely feel different, and in a good way. More contented in myself - less worried about inconsequential stuff, more able to see the positives, less inclined to have regrets and more inclined to leave bygones be bygones. After early 30s is when your youth is slipping away, and you need to mind your health and finances more (in my opinion) and I guess face up to the fact that your fertility is slipping away too. This doesn't mean you should go out and hook up with any guy at all if you're single, in order to have children. But if you are single, you need to be realistic and consider the possibility that you may not have children. You could meet someone still of course, but perhaps not in enough time to start a family.

I don't say this to judge (I'm in my 30s too) - it's just being realistic.

I see nothing wrong though with continuing to go out regularly with your pals - why not, if you don't have to worry about babysitters and being hungover minding children the next morning. I think the point when a person's "freedom" ends totally (and I don't mean that in a bad way - just can't think of a better word!) is when they become a parent, rather than an age or financial situation. But becoming a parent isn't the end, it's the beginning of a new chapter.
There is nothing wrong with not having a mortgage in your 30s either - of course not. There are far more people in their 30s and even 40s in house-shares these days too. I'm glad it's different to back in the day when there was much more of a pressure on women (and men) to have it all ticked by even 25, if not earlier! The pressures to have a family and a mortgage and a career (the latter moreso for men back then) aren't nearly like that now - some of them are more in a person's head than being the reality, in my opinion.

So it's not "the end" but I think what's described in Spain is too much the other extreme - e.g. still living with the folks at 30+. If a person has to move back with them due to particular circumstances, that's different - but having never moved out of their childhood home by that age doesn't seem ideal (in my opinion).

A happy medium I think. After all, it's only just about the mid point of your life (only a third of the way in some cases!)

LeeLooLee

Azalea wrote: »

It's not old of course - that's silly. But it's not that young. After early 30s is when your youth is slipping away, and you need to mind your health and finances more (in my opinion) and I guess face up to the fact that your fertility is slipping away too. This doesn't mean you should go out and hook up with any guy at all if you're single, in order to have children. But if you are single, you need to be realistic and consider the possibility that you may not have children. You could meet someone still of course, but perhaps not in enough time to start a family.

I don't say this to judge (I'm in my 30s too) - it's just being realistic.

I see nothing wrong though with continuing to go out regularly with your pals - why not, if you don't have to worry about babysitters and being hungover minding children the next morning. I think the point when a person's "freedom" ends totally (and I don't mean that in a bad way - just can't think of a better word!) is when they become a parent, rather than an age or financial situation. But becoming a parent isn't the end, it's the beginning of a new chapter.
There is nothing wrong with not having a mortgage in your 30s either - of course not. There are far more people in their 30s and even 40s in house-shares these days too. I'm glad it's different to back in the day when there was much more of a pressure on women (and men) to have it all ticked by even 25, if not earlier! The pressures to have a family and a mortgage and a career (moreso for men back then) aren't nearly like that now - some of them are more in a person's head than being the reality, in my opinion.

So it's not "the end" but I think what's described in Spain is too much the other extreme - e.g. still living with the folks at 30+. If a person has to move back with them due to particular circumstances, that's different - but having never moved out of their childhood home by that age doesn't seem ideal (in my opinion).

A happy medium I think. After all, it's only just about the mid point of your life (only a third of the way in some cases!)

I don't think there was ever any pressure on women to have it 'all' ticked by 25. Marriage and a house and possibly a kid, yes, but not like today's pressure, where we're supposed to go to college, maybe a Master's, climb up the career ladder and save money, travel and see the world, meet a partner and get married all by the age of 30. And all this at a time when the economy is rubbish and it's hard to find a job.

eviltwin

LeeLooLee wrote: »

I don't think there was ever any pressure on women to have it 'all' ticked by 25. Marriage and a house and possibly a kid, yes, but not like today's pressure, where we're supposed to go to college, maybe a Master's, climb up the career ladder and save money, travel and see the world, meet a partner and get married all by the age of 30. And all this at a time when the economy is rubbish and it's hard to find a job.

Where is that pressure coming from? I've never felt I needed to any of that let alone by the time I turned 30.