Admitting that you have no ambition?

Wanderer2010

I'm in my job just over 8 years now and over the years I have seen opportunities for senior roles and promotion come up and frankly the wrong people have secured them and by that I mean company pole climbers who would cut your throat for an extra euro or else yes men/women who suck up to the boss.

I went for a senior role in my third year here but missed out to some irritating little licka@@ who was incompetent so I now only do the bare minimum in work and will never go for anything senior. I told my boss last year when he suggested a senior role that I'm not interested as the wrong people always get the job and now I feel that recently I have been set up for failure by being assigned harder jobs with tighter deadlines.
I'm very close to filing a complaint with HR that I'm getting picked on and I feel it's because I admitted I have no ambition but why is that a problem, not every single workplace can be filled with eager go getters wanting to move up?? Thoughts?

seamus

You've asked a similar question here before. The problem is not motivation, but attitude.

Since you were passed over for promotion, you've decided the company is a sh1thole where people only get promoted by kissing ass. You've self-admittedly since followed this up with a lacklustre work performance and eagerness to tell management that they're incompetent and are promoting the wrong people.

In effect, you've decided that there's no point in trying to get promoted and set about sabotaging it for yourself with a sh1tty attitude.

You're not lacking ambition, you just hate where you work. Unfortunately staying in such an environment makes it hard to discern demotivation from a lack of ambition, it becomes a downward spiral.

Get a new job. It doesn't have to be better paid, it could be the same job in a different company. It will expand your horizons and give you a new energy. It may not be the job you want to do, but it will give you a bit of a kick to figure out what you do want to do.

Mrs OBumble

If you're there for over 8 years, you should be one of the experienced team members, well able for the more difficult jobs. That's likely why they're being given to you.

If you don't want to better yourself, well that's your call. (And most people do reach an age where they decide that they've climbed as high as they want to).

But don't expect to kick back and to a lazy job at the level where you're at, that's not how things work.

Jaketherake

I know what you are saying OP.
About 5 years ago I left a job that I had been in for the previous 10 years.
I was good at the job and was asked several times to apply for slightly higher paying management jobs, but which would need be to be someone im not and to also work almost twice the number of hours.

I just said "nope, im not interested. Im out of here at 5pm every day and not work weekends, so that I can do what I like to do instead of what my boss like me to do after work."

Queue lots of sniping and accusations of "are you leaving early? You have no ambition. Why are you here if you dont like it? "

Well I wasnt leaving early. I did have an ambition, which was to enjoy my time off, even more that work, and then to be able to retire at 45. And I did like my job, i just liked not being at work and doing other things far more, like going off to Florence or Barcelona for the weekend or hiking in the mountains with family and friends, or my own little side projects that I enjoy.

Come my 45th birthday and I walked into the office and handed in my notice. Should have seen the look on my bosses face and the rest of the people there when I said I was retiring. "But how can you retire at your age they said". "How will you get enough income to retire?". "Planning it for many a year, while you guys were planning your next move up the corporate ladder and spending 18 hours a day in the office and coming in at the weekends just to show the person above you that you were ambitious, even though you added nothing during most of those weekends", I said.

Some of my best friends are still there and now they see what I was doing was the right thing for me. In fact they are all very jealous if truth be told. And I guarantee none of them will be able to retire comfortably even if they wanted to til they are farmed off.

I havent looked back since. Now I do what I want, when I want, and get to spend all my time with my loved ones or going on holidays, or doing my own pet projects that i enjoy. Best decision ever. And those who accused me of having no ambition are still stuck in their daily slog, but at least they have ambition. The wrong type of ambition, I would wager.

Dead right mate! You work to live not live to work!

commonsense.

Jaketherake wrote:

I know what you are saying OP. About 5 years ago I left a job that I had been in for the previous 10 years. I was good at the job and was asked several times to apply for slightly higher paying management jobs, but which would need be to be someone im not and to also work almost twice the number of hours.

Jaketherake wrote:

Come my 45th birthday and I walked into the office and handed in my notice. Should have seen the look on my bosses face and the rest of the people there when I said I was retiring. "But how can you retire at your age they said". "How will you get enough income to retire?". "Planning it for many a year, while you guys were planning your next move up the corporate ladder and spending 18 hours a day in the office and coming in at the weekends just to show the person above you that you were ambitious, even though you added nothing during most of those weekends", I said.

So you work in a job doing minimum hours, don't take any promotions and are able to retire at 45 with enough money to support yourself for the next 40 years or more. Must have been some job or you won the lotto.
Care to tell us which?

Mongfinder General

OP, you've copped on to what most of us don't. If you work hard you will get the rewards you deserve. Total and utter bollox. It's about playing the game. And you don't want to play their game.

Jaketherake

commonsense. wrote: »

So you work in a job doing minimum hours, don't take any promotions and are able to retire at 45 with enough money to support yourself for the next 40 years or more. Must have been some job or you won the lotto.
Care to tell us which?

Well I didnt win the lotto. And no I didnt inherit either if thats your next question.
I made enough money and saved enough of it to be able to invest enough to support myself for the next however long. I didnt save all the money for the next 40 years already. Thats not how retirement works.

You are able to retire if the income from your investments exceeds your expenditure needs. Thats where I wanted to be and thats where I made sure I went. Basically I earn from investments the same as I earned from salaried work now. Well more actually, but the same or a bit less would still be enough.

Dont see what the big surprise is.

Work 18 hours a day and weekends to earn x amount plus a small bonus for those extra hours of you are lucky.
or
Work the required 7.5 hours a day Monday to Friday to earn the same amount, dont get the small bonus but do your own thing during those hours extra hours that you used to give to your company for free.

Easy choice for me.

People need to do some sums and actually figure out how much they are making for the extra hours they give their companies. Then compare that to your own hourly value on your own time.

Wanderer78

abandoned the whole rat race years ago. havent looked back since. more to life. if your not happy in work op, move on. looking back, its very sad to see how badly people are treated in the whole race. ive seen people far more senior than you being treated appallingly. ive seen people become very ill due to stress induced in them mainly from their working environment. the whole rat race encourages and promotes the ill treatment of people. its a truly disgusting system. it causes an incredible amount of mental health problems, in fact i resent the whole system for this alone. people are the most important asset a business can ever have as without them a business would only be ideas on pieces of paper. people make things happen and should be prioritised but sadly this isnt always the case. many businesses has become mainly about the bottom line and peoples needs are way down the list and sometimes not even on the list. do we really think this system is sustainable? id be looking into what kind of work or environment you d like to spend your days in, be realistic of course, and start making shapes towards that. you will become very unhappy if you dont and this will start affecting all aspects of your life including your relationships. there really is more to life. best of luck with things

seachto7

I never could understand people putting in 10/12 hour days.
They'll still turn around and let you go if it comes to it.
Then again if I was running a business, I can see the advantages as it would be to my benefit, and not making someone else rich!
Maybe if I was in a well paid job...

Jaketherake

Heres how one of the conversations went with my boss when he told me I was not doing enough overtime.
We were long time friends, so I could speak to him in this manner no problem. Even if we werent I would have had no problem with it.

Boss : "You dont seem to do as much overtime as the other guys."
Me : I still do a few days a week when I dont get lunch or im in early
Boss : But the other guys are doing 18 hour days and they get annoyed when they see you doing 7,5 or 8 hour days.
Me : I get annoyed for them when I see them doing 18 hour days.
Boss : This cant go on.
Me : Im always happy to work as many hours as you want me to above my normal paid hours.
Boss : Good. Glad we got that sorted.
Me : So the rate for OT is 1.5 times normal hourly rate.
Boss : We dont pay OT here.
Me : Oh. So you want me to give up my time for free.
Boss : Its for the good of the company.
Me : But its not for the good of me. I will work all you want. Ill work a hundred hours a week if you want. But you have to pay me properly for my time. If I dont make you pay then you will take it forever, why wouldnt you if its free for you.
Boss : Your contract says you have to do OT.
Me : Contract says "x hours per week and you may be required to work extra hours from time to time". I do work extra hours from time to time already.
Boss : Its not fair on the other guys.
Me : No its not. They are being abused and afraid to stand up for themselves.

and on it went for a while.
He told me a few years afterwards that his boss had told him to make sure that he got at least 48 hours a week out of everyone and more if possible. To create a situation where people felt they needed to be seen to be "company men". He was doing at least 70 hours a week himself.

When you get over that need to be seen to please your boss whatever they say, the stress at work just goes away.

sozbox

Jaketherake wrote: »

Well I didnt win the lotto. And no I didnt inherit either if thats your next question.
I made enough money and saved enough of it to be able to invest enough to support myself for the next however long. I didnt save all the money for the next 40 years already. Thats not how retirement works.

You are able to retire if the income from your investments exceeds your expenditure needs. Thats where I wanted to be and thats where I made sure I went. Basically I earn from investments the same as I earned from salaried work now. Well more actually, but the same or a bit less would still be enough.

Dont see what the big surprise is.

Work 18 hours a day and weekends to earn x amount plus a small bonus for those extra hours of you are lucky.
or
Work the required 7.5 hours a day Monday to Friday to earn the same amount, dont get the small bonus but do your own thing during those hours extra hours that you used to give to your company for free.

Easy choice for me.

People need to do some sums and actually figure out how much they are making for the extra hours they give their companies. Then compare that to your own hourly value on your own time.

I've a similar goal, to retire by 50 using investment income, I've over 20 years left to get there. Can I ask what kind of investments you bought? stocks?

Mister Vain

There's a difference between being ambitious and working every hour God gives you in a job you don't like.

Wanderer78

sozbox wrote: »

I've a similar goal, to retire by 50 using investment income, I've over 20 years left to get there. Can I ask what kind of investments you bought? stocks?

be very very careful with investments. if you were born in the wrong year, that could go horribly wrong for you. i hear gold is a good investment but i have no investments myself.

commonsense.

Jaketherake wrote:

You are able to retire if the income from your investments exceeds your expenditure needs. Thats where I wanted to be and thats where I made sure I went. Basically I earn from investments the same as I earned from salaried work now. Well more actually, but the same or a bit less would still be enough.

So let's say you lead a very modest lifestyle on €50,000 a year. You are able to generate this €50k from your investments and GUARANTEE this level of income for the next 40+ years.
You only need a very very basic understanding of risk and return to know that a massive initial sum would be required to be able to do this.
And you claim to have saved that massive sum by age 45???

sozbox

Wanderer78 wrote: »

be very very careful with investments. if you were born in the wrong year, that could go horribly wrong for you. i hear gold is a good investment but i have no investments myself.

True enough, if I was 5 years older I'd probably have 5 houses in negative equity

Jaketherake

sozbox wrote: »

I've a similar goal, to retire by 50 using investment income, I've over 20 years left to get there. Can I ask what kind of investments you bought? stocks?

Now this mightnt work for you, so think about what you do and tailor it for yourself.

In order of importance this is what I deemed I needed to do.

1 - Max your pension contributions. This will kick in when you are old enough, even if you retired earlier than you can touch it. So say you retired at 40 and couldnt touch your pension til 55, you have that extra income when you hit 55. Also its tax efficient and gets you used to living on less money per paycheck than if you spent the pension money month to month. And your company might match some of your contribution too.

2 - I bought equities every month. I sold some of these to buy property too when I had enough. That could have backfired at one point, but it bounced back. Pay all your debts down as quickly as possible. The only mortgages I have left are the trackers. Everything else I paid off, even if I could have got a little tax back on the interest. When things go wrong better to own outright than owe. Own your own house and have it paid off BEFORE you retire (some believe renting is better - i dont). I made that and my 45th birthday my trigger for retiring.

3 - Enjoy yourself. No point putting everything away if you have to do without. Then life before and after retirement would be very miserable. Defeats the purpose.

At a point, your normal salary will start to be matched by the money earned every month by your investments. This is effectivly doubling your income, but dont be tempted to spend your retirement fund. Let it grow and dont get used to that income as spendable income. Because it needs to replace your salary when you do retire. And its not easy to half your spending at that point.

Tweak your plans as you go.

Oh, nearly forgot. I ignored the prospect of contributory state pension as it could be gone by the time im 68, so best to plan for not having it.

sozbox

Jaketherake wrote: »

Now this mightnt work for you, so think about what you do and tailor it for yourself.

In order of importance this is what I deemed I needed to do.

1 - Max your pension contributions. This will kick in when you are old enough, even if you retired earlier than you can touch it. So say you retired at 40 and couldnt touch your pension til 55, you have that extra income when you hit 55. Also its tax efficient and gets you used to living on less money per paycheck than if you spent the pension money month to month. And your company might match some of your contribution too.

2 - I bought equities every month. I sold some of these to buy property too when I had enough. That could have backfired at one point, but it bounced back. Pay all your debts down as quickly as possible. The only mortgages I have left are the trackers. Everything else I paid off, even if I could have got a little tax back on the interest. When things go wrong better to own outright than owe. Own your own house and have it paid off BEFORE you retire (some believe renting is better - i dont). I made that and my 45th birthday my trigger for retiring.

3 - Enjoy yourself. No point putting everything away if you have to do without. Then life before and after retirement would be very miserable. Defeats the purpose.

At a point, your normal salary will start to be matched by the money earned every month by your investments. This is effectivly doubling your income, but dont be tempted to spend your retirement fund. Let it grow and dont get used to that income as spendable income. Because it needs to replace your salary when you do retire. And its not easy to half your spending at that point.

Tweak your plans as you go.

Cheers for that. Assuming your income now is from rental properties and stocks that pay dividends?

Wanderer2010

Jaketherake wrote: »

Heres how one of the conversations went with my boss when he told me I was not doing enough overtime.
We were long time friends, so I could speak to him in this manner no problem. Even if we werent I would have had no problem with it.

Boss : "You dont seem to do as much overtime as the other guys."
Me : I still do a few days a week when I dont get lunch or im in early
Boss : But the other guys are doing 18 hour days and they get annoyed when they see you doing 7,5 or 8 hour days.
Me : I get annoyed for them when I see them doing 18 hour days.
Boss : This cant go on.
Me : Im always happy to work as many hours as you want me to above my normal paid hours.
Boss : Good. Glad we got that sorted.
Me : So the rate for OT is 1.5 times normal hourly rate.
Boss : We dont pay OT here.
Me : Oh. So you want me to give up my time for free.
Boss : Its for the good of the company.
Me : But its not for the good of me. I will work all you want. Ill work a hundred hours a week if you want. But you have to pay me properly for my time. If I dont make you pay then you will take it forever, why wouldnt you if its free for you.
Boss : Your contract says you have to do OT.
Me : Contract says "x hours per week and you may be required to work extra hours from time to time". I do work extra hours from time to time already.
Boss : Its not fair on the other guys.
Me : No its not. They are being abused and afraid to stand up for themselves.

and on it went for a while.
He told me a few years afterwards that his boss had told him to make sure that he got at least 48 hours a week out of everyone and more if possible. To create a situation where people felt they needed to be seen to be "company men". He was doing at least 70 hours a week himself.

When you get over that need to be seen to please your boss whatever they say, the stress at work just goes away.

18 hours a day??? No way in hell I would ever ever work that much even if I got paid for it. I would love someone to come on here and say that working long hours was worth it and it gave them satisfaction and happiness because I have yet to see that person! There's a small thing called a life which means I only work my required hours and no more and my mental health is all the better for it. Working long hours really is only for ladder climbers.

Jaketherake

commonsense. wrote: »

So let's say you lead a very modest lifestyle on €50,000 a year. You are able to generate this €50k from your investments and GUARANTEE this level of income for the next 40+ years.
You only need a very very basic understanding of risk and return to know that a massive initial sum would be required to be able to do this.
And you claim to have saved that massive sum by age 45???

Yes. Its quite easy actually, whatever amount a person decides they need to have a nice retirement. Looks like its 50k for you.
Some would want more, some less.
Once you have no mortgage / rent your costs go down considerably too. Thats a big one.

And as I explained I have investments that will provide me with money. I dont have the money sitting in the bank waiting for me to take it out over the next x amount of years.

And nothing can ever be guaranteed, even a job.

How much do you think you would need to have your 50k a year for 40 years. Obviously you have an idea of what you need to have at the start of those 40 years for yourself. Tell us what you think it is that you would need and what allocations etc and we can work from there with you.

Vision of Disorder

commonsense. wrote: »

So let's say you lead a very modest lifestyle on €50,000 a year.

You don't need 50k a year to live modestly.

Its funny. In my experience, the people not interested in promotion think of others as "ladder climbers" or "lick asses".

The people who do chase promotion think of others as unhappy losers.

Two very entrenched attitudes

Wanderer78

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

18 hours a day??? No way in hell I would ever ever work that much even if I got paid for it. I would love someone to come on here and say that working long hours was worth it and it gave them satisfaction and happiness because I have yet to see that person! There's a small thing called a life which means I only work my required hours and no more and my mental health is all the better for it. Working long hours really is only for ladder climbers.

i know people that have put in the time and are now reaping the rewards but to be honest i probably know more that havent. there really is more to life

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

You don't need 50k a year to live modestly.

depends what your situation is! i read a post on here not too long ago of a family struggling on 75k a year

sozbox

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i know people that have put in the time and are now reaping the rewards but to be honest i probably know more that havent. there really is more to life



depends what your situation is! i read a post on here not too long ago of a family struggling on 75k a year

Take rent/mortgage and possible tax off your monthly expenses and it's a different world.

Jaketherake

sozbox wrote: »

Cheers for that. Assuming your income now is from rental properties and stocks that pay dividends?

Exactly. Pension is my safety fund if it all goes wrong. Stocks are important as you can liquidate easily if you need to as you go along. My original goal was to take 4% a year, but i havent had to do that so far. Rental properties turned out to be relatively easy money in the end, but that might change with government interference, but thats another story. Also the property thing nearly blew up in my face at one stage, but settled down.

Jaketherake

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

18 hours a day??? No way in hell I would ever ever work that much even if I got paid for it. I would love someone to come on here and say that working long hours was worth it and it gave them satisfaction and happiness because I have yet to see that person! There's a small thing called a life which means I only work my required hours and no more and my mental health is all the better for it. Working long hours really is only for ladder climbers.

Working long hours also takes away from your familys quality of life too. Thats a major one.

sozbox

Jaketherake wrote: »

Exactly. Pension is my safety fund if it all goes wrong. Stocks are important as you can liquidate easily if you need to as you go along. My original goal was to take 4% a year, but i havent had to do that so far. Rental properties turned out to be relatively easy money in the end, but that might change with government interference, but thats another story. Also the property thing nearly blew up in my face at one stage, but settled down.

Well done on what you've achieved. Not easy. How much ere you putting into stocks per month at the beginning?

Jaketherake

sozbox wrote: »

Well done on what you've achieved. Not easy. How much ere you putting into stocks per month at the beginning?

Curiosly it turned out easier than I expected.
I started buying stocks in my 20s.
At that time I put in I think it was 10% into pension fund. There were also matching contributions from employer. 15% into equities and 20% into rent. I quickly decided to put the rent into a mortgage instead, which turned out to be less than rent and then after bought some more property as I went along.

By the time I was retired it was 25% from myself into pension and 25% into equities. They equities were actually making me money then and the pension was growing fast too. Pension funds are still growing but slower as i reduced the risk, but i dotn contribute now to it.

So the day I retired my costs are 25% less for pension contributions i dont make anymore (you have to adjust that for tax too) and 25% that im not putting into equities anymore. So basically before that I was living very comfortably on 50% less than I was earning at the time.

When I retired my investments were growing on average by more than my salary paid me every month, which was a good sign to retire.

sozbox

Jaketherake wrote: »

Curiosly it turned out easier than I expected.
I started buying stocks in my 20s.
At that time I put in I think it was 10% into pension fund. There were also matching contributions from employer. 15% into equities and 20% into rent. I quickly decided to put the rent into a mortgage instead, which turned out to be less than rent and then after bought some more property as I went along.

By the time I was retired it was 25% from myself into pension and 25% into equities. They equities were actually making me money then and the pension was growing fast too. Pension funds are still growing but slower as i reduced the risk, but i dotn contribute now to it.

So the day I retired my costs are 25% less for pension contributions i dont make anymore (you have to adjust that for tax too) and 25% that im not putting into equities anymore. So basically before that I was living very comfortably on 50% less than I was earning at the time.

When I retired my investments were growing on average by more than my salary paid me every month, which was a good sign to retire.

Thanks for the detail. One last question, I've started buying stocks and have the house deposit almost ready but something that eats into my money is the transaction and account fees that come with the online brokers. What did you use?

Carlo Ancelotti

Always wary of companies where the required work cannot be done during normal hours. Ocassional OT is not an issue, but it should be compensated properly. Have seen people put under pressure many times to do extra hours fir the good of the company
The problem is it can become 'expected' of you and you end up with no reward.

davo10

Should someone who works the minimum required be considered for promotion? And if they are not promoted, should they be entitled to criticise the people who do put in the extra effort and get rewarded? I have no problem with those that are happy with their lot and do not begrudge others when they advance, but employers look for the three A's, aptitude, attitude and ambition, if you do the bare minimum and accept the status quo, don't denigrate others who reap the rewards of a better work ethic.

Nody

sozbox wrote: »

Thanks for the detail. One last question, I've started buying stocks and have the house deposit almost ready but something that eats into my money is the transaction and account fees that come with the online brokers. What did you use?

//MOD

Investment forum over there so let's keep the thread on the original topic.

//MOD

Wanderer2010

davo10 wrote: »

Should someone who works the minimum required be considered for promotion? And if they are not promoted, should they be entitled to criticise the people who do put in the extra effort and get rewarded? I have no problem with those that are happy with their lot and do not begrudge others when they advance, but employers look for the three A's, aptitude, attitude and ambition, if you do the bare minimum and accept the status quo, don't denigrate others who reap the rewards of a better work ethic.

Would you consider a person who does twelve hour days someone who has a better work ethic than somebody who does what's required of them in eight hours ?

dudara

There's a big difference between someone who maintains a sensible work life balance and someone who thinks the company employs "licka@@". Having little/no ambition is one thing (lots of people are comfortable where they are), but to sit there with negative thoughts towards your co-workers and employer is damaging. The OP's attitude is probably partially the reason for their own dissatisfaction. Ultimately it becomes a self-fulfilling destiny.

If you don't enjoy working for the company, and you don't like the atmosphere there, then you should consider finding another employer.

fly_agaric

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I told my boss last year when he suggested a senior role that I'm not interested as the wrong people always get the job and now I feel that recently I have been set up for failure by being assigned harder jobs with tighter deadlines.

That could be your problem rather than lack of go-getting being frowned on etc.
"They" generally do not like to receive that sort of feedback from their minions (even if it's true).
You should have said you were "too busy", have "other stuff going on in my life", "promotion is not for me right now" etc - not I don't bother because the promotion procedures are a joke!

davo10

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Would you consider a person who does twelve hour days someone who has a better work ethic than somebody who does what's required of them in eight hours ?

"So I now do the bare minimum at work" . Your words. Yes is the answer to your question if the person does more in the twelve hours than the other does in eight. You can argue that you are more organised and efficient and can do more in eight than someone else does in twelve but that does not tick the attitude and ambition boxes, it reads as you typed it, you will do the bare minimum and bitch about those who do more and are promoted, of course they must be arse lickers or less talented than you, or maybe they just go that bit further to be noticed.

Have you posted a similar thread before?

hawkwind23

Nice to read some of the comments on here , hope for the younger generations yet

You only get one life so do what makes you happy.

I can understand how once your in a career you love that you dedicate yourself to it.

A lot of jobs are just to make money for a board , no real job satisfaction other than purring and stroking your ego for making the company money, why would anyone dedicate their existence for that?

If you do make sure and save the money , what you thought was cool and unique in your 20's and 30's becomes cringable in your 40's and you will start wanting out.

My main advice to someone who starts thinking for themselves is to sort out expenditure , once you get that sorted then money isnt really a concern anymore and you can do jobs that you like and enjoy rather than to match a lifestyle you bought into

La Fenetre

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I'm in my job just over 8 years now and over the years I have seen opportunities for senior roles and promotion come up and frankly the wrong people have secured them and by that I mean company pole climbers who would cut your throat for an extra euro or else yes men/women who suck up to the boss.

Quite a few Irish workplaces have gone toxic and dysfunctional over the years due to poor management skills, and they end up getting more of the management they deserve, and they reap what they sow. A lot of Irish workplaces don't release the value of morale and motivation. You'll realise the huge difference in the quality of management, morale and motivation when you land in a good workplace.

davo10

hawkwind23 wrote: »

Nice to read some of the comments on here , hope for the younger generations yet

You only get one life so do what makes you happy.

I can understand how once your in a career you love that you dedicate yourself to it.

A lot of jobs are just to make money for a board , no real job satisfaction other than purring and stroking your ego for making the company money, why would anyone dedicate their existence for that?

If you do make sure and save the money , what you thought was cool and unique in your 20's and 30's becomes cringable in your 40's and you will start wanting out.

My main advice to someone who starts thinking for themselves is to sort out expenditure , once you get that sorted then money isnt really a concern anymore and you can do jobs that you like and enjoy rather than to match a lifestyle you bought into

Yip, if you live in a shoebox and dumpster dive, you only have to work one day a month. Of course for the rest of us who have family's to support and mortgages to pay, every wage increase and promotion is important.

Ursus Horribilis

It depends on the person's attitude. One of the people I manage is a woman who views her job as something that puts money in her pocket so she can enjoy her life outside of work. She's not interested in promotions or anything like that. But she is also an absolute pleasure to work with. She comes into work, does everything that's asked of her and sometimes more, is nice to everyone and doesn't cause any problems at all. Someone like that is an asset to a workplace in my opinion. There's nothing worse than having to deal with someone who has an attitude problem. I've had those too and they can be a right headache.

hawkwind23

davo10 wrote: »

Yip, if you live in a shoebox and dumpster dive, you only have to work one day a month. Of course for the rest of us who have family's to support and mortgages to pay, every wage increase and promotion is important.

Good rise on tonight

Ah i could be cutting but the poster maybe needs a hug instead of another person trampling all over them.

For the record and benefit of the thread.

Most people have mortgages and families to support.

The crude definition of where one habituates depends on whether its referred to as a home , a lot of houses and apartments all over ireland.

How did the old saying go?

All fur coat and no knickers

Wanderer78

this thread is kicking up some very important things though. i think we re heading in the wrong direction on many levels. in order for people to gain financial stability so that they can afford the necessities in life, many have to work incredibly long hours and endure very stressful working environments to do so. somethings going wrong folks.

La Fenetre

Odus fell down wrote: »

It depends on the person's attitude. One of the people I manage is a woman who views her job as something that puts money in her pocket so she can enjoy her life outside of work. She's not interested in promotions or anything like that. But she is also an absolute pleasure to work with. She comes into work, does everything that's asked of her and sometimes more, is nice to everyone and doesn't cause any problems at all. Someone like that is an asset to a workplace in my opinion. There's nothing worse than having to deal with someone who has an attitude problem. I've had those too and they can be a right headache.

No business can be successful in the long term without supporting employees like this. They are also the first to move on when management goes toxic and ignores morale and personal development.

Jaketherake

Wanderer78 wrote: »

this thread is kicking up some very important things though. i think we re heading in the wrong direction on many levels. in order for people to gain financial stability so that they can afford the necessities in life, many have to work incredibly long hours and endure very stressful working environments to do so. somethings going wrong folks.

This.
And these days it takes two members of a household working like slaves to make a living too. Not easy. It also takes two working to buy a house now too.

Wanderer78

Jaketherake wrote: »

This.
And these days it takes two members of a household working like slaves to make a living too. Not easy. It also takes two working to buy a house now too.

and this is why theres something going seriously wrong. we ve taken a wrong turn somewhere and this needs to be rectified asap or there will be serious trouble ahead

Heroditas

La Fenetre wrote: »

Quite a few Irish workplaces have gone toxic and dysfunctional over the years due to poor management skills, and they end up getting more of the management they deserve, and they reap what they sow. A lot of Irish workplaces don't release the value of moral and motivation. You'll realise the huge difference in the quality of management, moral and motivation when you land in a good workplace.

I'd completely agree with this. I've ended up in a position in the last year where I've started managing people. I absolutely love it but was really delighted to be sent on a brief management course in the IMI.
If more workplaces sent people on courses like it, they'd end up with far more competent managers who could connect with their teams and everyone can achieve what is required of them.

Elessar

You may not want a promotion for those reasons OP but you went about it the wrong way. As someone else pointed out you should have been more professional about it ("I'm too busy outside of work right now, it's not the right time etc"). By all means bring your concerns up regarding promotions with your manager but make it professional and without appropriating blame directly. Anyway it sounds like you're unhappy there so it seems like it's time to look for a new job.

I'd agree with the other posters who spoke about work life balance. It is absolutely insane to be working regular long hours that are not paid. I'm lucky enough in that where I work there is no expectation of this, and it's highly unionised anyway so it wouldn't fly. However I've a friend working as a software developer who also puts in 18 hour days, for a relatively low salary. I find this absolutely mind-boggling. Working in IT I understand that there is a certain expectation to do this to get work done but anyone who does this regularly needs their head examined.This is not the type of workplace you want to work. Personally I plan to move into contracting eventually, not just for the money, but for the set hours, and guaranteed overtime pay (i.e. if you're not paid, you don't work).

Icepick

You sound like a spoilt child blaming others for your failures, OP.

Tom Dunne

Icepick wrote: »

You sound like a spoilt child blaming otgers for your failures

Yes, those pesky otgers. Always causing trouble.

Ursus Horribilis

I have seen your other thread(s) about this and they stuck in my mind for some reason. Perhaps it's the tone of seething bitterness that comes through in them. You've made a rod for your own back here and it's not because you claim you're not ambitious. It's your attitude which stinks.

In just about all workplaces there's room for people who just want to come into work, do an honest day's work and go home. In some ways they're the nicest people to work with because they're not interested in playing the game. Your problem is that you decided to take the passive aggressive road. I'm sure everyone in the place knows you're doing the bare minimum and have become very negative and cynical. And that's before you said what you did. That really wasn't clever at all.

You really should be looking around for another job rather than going into battle. Be pragmatic- you're going to need a reference from this lot. Maybe they are giving you tough jobs but how can you meet your targets when you're doing the bare minimum anyway? You've also damaged your relationship with management. You could have gone to them and said you'd need more time or more resources. Should you go to HR be prepared to have sh1t thrown back at you. You're far from being an innocent party in all of this.

Streetwalker

In work at 9 and off at 5 every single day Monday to Friday. After 5pm I have zero work related stuff until 9am the next morning, no emails, no phone calls, nothing. Yes the pay is crappy but every day I'm home at 5:20 on the dot to spend time with my family and do after work activities. I won't be retiring when I'm 50 that's for sure but I'm good with that because I know people who have retired early only to be unhappy after a couple of years. I've done the stressful work your way up the ladder whilst the company ride you like a fool jobs and at the end of the day you are nothing to them bar a number and they would drop you like a hat if they deemed it profitable.

I think the way employers have acted these last few years in particular has been pretty disgraceful (not all but many). They have seen a way to use the depression to in many cases terrorise their employees into going well up and beyond their daily hours. I've heard stories of employers using job bridge to "remind" employees just how replaceable they are all the time aided and abated by weak governance.

To be perfectly honest unless you run your own business I can see no wrong in having a lack of ambition.