Portugal: No left wing Gov allowed in Europe?

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flutered wrote: »

but the germans made 100m by saying do it our way

Given that neither Ireleand nor Portugal, much less Greece, has repaid the monies loaned to them by the EFSM and the EFSF/ESM, no one can be said to have "made" anything on those loans since even one default on any of them leaves the other member states - as loan guarantors - facing large bills to repay them.

hatrickpatrick

View wrote: »

He didn't that nor did he say your previous comment comment either.

If you read what he actually said - as opposed to what you want him to have said - he clearly states that the convention in Portugal is that the largest party gets to try to form the government. That is the convention he has followed in appointing the PM. He also states it is now up to MPs to either accept that convention or reject it as they so choose.

Did you even read the part of his comment that I quoted?

Once again (with added emphasis this time):

I also had in mind that the European Union is one of the Country’s strategic options. This option was essential for the consolidation of the Portuguese democratic regime and continues to be one of the pillars of our democracy and of the model of society in which the Portuguese wish to live, a developed, and fair and solidarity guided society.

The observance of the commitments assumed within the framework of the Euro Zone is decisive, is totally crucial for the financing of our economy and, consequently, for economic growth and job creation.

Outside the European Union Portugal’s future would be catastrophic.

In 40 years of democracy, the Portuguese governments never depended from anti-European political factions, that is, of the political factions which, in the electoral manifestos with which they presented themselves to the Portuguese, defended the repeal of the Lisbon Treaty, of the Budgetary Treaty, of the Banking Union and of the Pact of Stability and Growth, as well as the dismantlement of the Economic and Monetary Union and Portugal’s exit from the Euro, and, still further, the dismemberment of NATO, of which Portugal is a founder member.

This is the worst moment to radically change the bases of our democratic regime, in a fashion which doesn’t even correspond to the democratic will expressed by the Portuguese in the elections held on 4 October.

Is that not a very clear, unadulterated attack on Portugal's left? Is that not the president effectively saying "I don't want to see these guys in power"?

If further elections are held and the left wins a big enough proportion to get first dibs on calling a government, do you think the president will accept this government warmly or grudgingly? He's very, very clearly stepping into political territory there. If Michael D were to go on a similar rant about right wing parties in Ireland, there would be absolute uproar from the pro establishment posters on this very forum, including yourself.

aliveandkicking

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Did you even read the part of his comment that I quoted?

Once again (with added emphasis this time):



Is that not a very clear, unadulterated attack on Portugal's left? Is that not the president effectively saying "I don't want to see these guys in power"?

If further elections are held and the left wins a big enough proportion to get first dibs on calling a government, do you think the president will accept this government warmly or grudgingly? He's very, very clearly stepping into political territory there. If Michael D were to go on a similar rant about right wing parties in Ireland, there would be absolute uproar from the pro establishment posters on this very forum, including yourself.

Your problem is you are equating the role of the Irish President with that of the Portuguese President. The Irish President is purely ceremonial and stays out of politics. The Portuguese President is more political. In 2004 the then President of Portugal unilaterally dissolved parliament thus collasping a government that still had the backing of the majority of MPs.

Complaining that the Portuguese President should stay out of politics shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the office.

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hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Did you even read the part of his comment that I quoted?

Once again (with added emphasis this time):



Is that not a very clear, unadulterated attack on Portugal's left? Is that not the president effectively saying "I don't want to see these guys in power"?

No it is not. The main Portugese socialist party is strongly pro-EU. It is a legitimate criticism of the hard left fringe parties they want to cobble a government together with.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If further elections are held and the left wins a big enough proportion to get first dibs on calling a government, do you think the president will accept this government warmly or grudgingly?

Based on his citing of their convention, he should have little problem with nominating a member of the socialist party to be prime minister.

In case you missed it, they just had an election and their socialist party tried and FAILED to become the largest party.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

He's very, very clearly stepping into political territory there. If Michael D were to go on a similar rant about right wing parties in Ireland, there would be absolute uproar from the pro establishment posters on this very forum, including yourself.

The Portugese have a semi-Presidential system (like France). Their President has a direct mandate from the electorate which parliamentary elections don't trump. Their President has extensive powers which he is free to use as he chooses.

And, for the record, I would regard it as perfectly acceptable if our President made a speech directly challenging Sinn Fein suitability to hold government office here as it is unclear, with the reported continuing existence of the IRA's Army Council, whether their loyalty is to our constitution and the people of Ireland or to the unelected, shadowy figures on the Army Council who presided over an undemocratic murderous campaign which resulted in human rights abuses for many people here over many decades.

jimmycrackcorm

hatrickpatrick wrote:

Is that not a very clear, unadulterated attack on Portugal's left? Is that not the president effectively saying "I don't want to see these guys in power"?

Maybe he was saying that he thinks it would be a good idea if their atms were able to give more than eur60...

feargale

Jim2007 wrote: »

No not the case, but don't let the facts interfere with your opinion!

You are technically correct if we accept that a little tampering at the edges constitutes a different question.
Of more relevant concern is the propensity of Irish governments to use public money to sway the electorate, blatantly once upon a time, but with a semblance of sublety since the courts got involved in the issue. This will stop only when somebody goes to the courts and asks to have the culprit(s) made personally liable for the cost incurred to the taxpayer. If this goes unpunished re referendums what is to prevent a government resorting to the same abuse in a general election?