RWC'15 Semi-Final 1: South Africa vs New Zealand, Sat 24/10 16:00

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

He split Louw who needed to go off as a blood sub, I think it'd be a harsh ban though.

Two different incidents. Murray Kinsella has a piece about it this morning. Look it up. No contact with Louw's head from McCaw. He does get an accidental knock about 6 minutes later from a lineout and the blood appears then.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Two different incidents. Murray Kinsella has a piece about it this morning. Look it up. No contact with Louw's head from McCaw. He does get an accidental knock about 6 minutes later from a lineout and the blood appears then.

The closeups are clearcut. The depth perceptions on normal view are a bit less clear. Kinda like the cricket catches close to the ground.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

aimee1 wrote: »

The closeups are clearcut. The depth perceptions on normal view are a bit less clear. Kinda like the cricket catches close to the ground.

Clearcut in which way? Contact made? Or storm in a teacup?

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Clearcut in which way? Contact made? Or storm in a teacup?

Hip on shoulder was only contact.

CurryFlavoured

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Two different incidents. Murray Kinsella has a piece about it this morning. Look it up. No contact with Louw's head from McCaw. He does get an accidental knock about 6 minutes later from a lineout and the blood appears then.

Ah fair enough, I just saw it was Louw and assumed that was what cut him.

minitrue

Am I the only one who thinks Garces (and Lacey) deserve the Joubert treatment over the forward pass for the first try?

I'm not sure if the TMO is allowed to "check check" for that but if they are I think all three have to be out of contention for the final.

Just look at the position of Garces and Lacey, how could Garces instantly call backwards on a pass that went at least 1m forward and Lacey not correct him or even try to request the TMO?

minitrue

minitrue wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks Garces (and Lacey) deserve the Joubert treatment over the forward pass for the first try?

I'm not sure if the TMO is allowed to "check check" for that but if they are I think all three have to be out of contention for the final.

Just look at the position of Garces and Lacey, how could Garces instantly call backwards on a pass that went at least 1m forward and Lacey not correct him or even try to request the TMO?

First, you need to understand a forward pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

hahashake

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Two different incidents. Murray Kinsella has a piece about it this morning. Look it up. No contact with Louw's head from McCaw. He does get an accidental knock about 6 minutes later from a lineout and the blood appears then.

Thank god for Murray Kinsella. Probably the best Rugby journalist around and also very objective. Seems like one of the few non-NZ journalists who is happy to praise the ABS where praise is due and doesn't devolve into paranoid delusions about a global reffing conspiracy.

On the "forward" pass, the touch judge has the perfect view of the pass. If he didn't call it, it's fairly safe to say it wasn't forward. Unless you are wearing a tinfoil hat.

CatFromHue

Basil3 wrote: »

First, you need to understand a forward pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

I would have liked it to have been looked at I have to say. I'm not saying it was defo forward or anything but it would be in the realm of getting a TMO check imo

McCaw isn't moving that fast when he's running so he wouldn't have added much if any forward momentum to the ball once he passed it.

captbarnacles

Definitely forward and amazing they didn't check it given other things they've checked.

captbarnacles

captbarnacles wrote: »

Definitely forward and amazing they didn't check it given other things they've checked.

If McCaw carried on running forward and wasn't tackled, he would have easily been in front of where Kaino caught it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

hahashake wrote: »

Thank god for Murray Kinsella. Probably the best Rugby journalist around and also very objective. Seems like one of the few non-NZ journalists who is happy to praise the ABS where praise is due and doesn't devolve into paranoid delusions about a global reffing conspiracy.

Twitter and social media in general are an awful thing when it comes to sport. Everyone is in a rush to be the first to break a story or get the scoop and it's lead to previously well respected journalists looking like idiots on a regular basis. This is maybe the first rugby world cup at the height of social medias power and it's showing people up for the reactionary sheep they are.

I watch a fair bit of tennis and it happens all the time. Something happenes mid match and twitter jumps on it, has a player hung, drawn and quartered before the match is even finished, journalists have full stories ready to go and usually there's nothing to whatever it is they've all reacted to.

This McCaw incident is a perfect example. One vine, which doesn't even show the whole thing, does the rounds and within a few minutes McCaw is banned for the final, career over. All it takes is for a sensible head to wait a few minutes and actually look at what's happened before commenting on it for the truth to be known.

swiwi_

Leaving rugby aside, the whole thing is a sad indictment on human nature

Firstly, someone took the trouble to trawl through 80 minutes of rugby footage to find the incident
They then created it into a vine
And it went from there

But if we step back, why would people get pleasure/feel better about themselves over McCaw missing what will probably be his final game of international rugby? Why do people so want that to happen? Why do we prefer the bad to the good?

The general media, especially the sensationlist websites are almost obliged to run with such stoires, because page visits = advertising revenue.

It's sad though to see the likes of Brian Moore so quick to jump on the bandwagon. Would Brian have liked to miss his final game of internationl rugby from a non-incident?

Although the judiciary has had its moments this tournament, I don't think this will even get cited. And if it does, I would expect Louw to come forward in defence of McCaw. The 2 sides respect each other, and they know that that wasn't a deliberate cheap shot. As it is, it wasn't even a shot at all, the hip appears to have bumped Louw's shoulder.

awec

It's a nothing incident really. I would be very surprised if anything came of it.

swiwi_

swiwi_ wrote: »

Leaving rugby aside, the whole thing is a sad indictment on human nature

Firstly, someone took the trouble to trawl through 80 minutes of rugby footage to find the incident
They then created it into a vine
And it went from there

But if we step back, why would people get pleasure/feel better about themselves over McCaw missing what will probably be his final game of international rugby? Why do people so want that to happen? Why do we prefer the bad to the good?

The general media, especially the sensationlist websites are almost obliged to run with such stoires, because page visits = advertising revenue.

It's sad though to see the likes of Brian Moore so quick to jump on the bandwagon. Would Brian have liked to miss his final game of internationl rugby from a non-incident?

Although the judiciary has had its moments this tournament, I don't think this will even get cited. And if it does, I would expect Louw to come forward in defence of McCaw. The 2 sides respect each other, and they know that that wasn't a deliberate cheap shot. As it is, it wasn't even a shot at all, the hip appears to have bumped Louw's shoulder.

Brian Moore was defending McCaw, saying it was a non incident, wasn't he?

I think this particular case is just because of Richie, I can't imagine any other player getting this treatment over something so pathetic. Ever since I moved to Ireland, I feel like I've have to defend him. I've had multiple guys from mid-twenties to mid-sixties inform me he's a cheat. These are avid rugby supporters, Leinster season ticket holders etc. If I didn't know any better, I would think it was part of the school curriculum here.

captbarnacles

I watched that vine over and over when it was posted thinking I was being an idiot and missing something obvious. Relief to find out it was indeed nothing,

minitrue

Basil3 wrote: »

If McCaw carried on running forward and wasn't tackled, he would have easily been in front of where Kaino caught it.

Which might have been relevant if it was a flat pass, but the ball was up in the air for a long time which would have given McCaw plenty of time to get ahead of it.

As for the Total Rugby attempt to explain things I find the "over the head" example particularly appalling. If a player is running and puts in the work to continue to maintain a constant speed, then if they throw the ball upward and slightly forward (so it leaves their hands travelling faster then they are relative to the ground) the deceleration on the ball from the air resistance can easily be enough for the player to run underneath it.

I don't have TMO access to all the angles and the man who did wasn't given the chance to look at it. Maybe a reverse angle might have given enough doubt over how it left his hand for the try to stand but for me the fact it was not checked is perverse.

Ardillaun

Louw should be offering online courses to wings on how to tackle Savea. He got in some great ones on the big man.

aimee1

captbarnacles wrote: »

I watched that vine over and over when it was posted thinking I was being an idiot and missing something obvious. Relief to find out it was indeed nothing,

When you see the tv footage its much clearer. The vine is different and you lose depth perception. I was convinced he elbowed him but saw proper tv coverage which was much clearer

nehe milner skudder

swiwi_ wrote: »

Leaving rugby aside, the whole thing is a sad indictment on human nature

Firstly, someone took the trouble to trawl through 80 minutes of rugby footage to find the incident
They then created it into a vine
And it went from there

But if we step back, why would people get pleasure/feel better about themselves over McCaw missing what will probably be his final game of international rugby? Why do people so want that to happen? Why do we prefer the bad to the good?

The general media, especially the sensationlist websites are almost obliged to run with such stoires, because page visits = advertising revenue.

It's sad though to see the likes of Brian Moore so quick to jump on the bandwagon. Would Brian have liked to miss his final game of internationl rugby from a non-incident?

Although the judiciary has had its moments this tournament, I don't think this will even get cited. And if it does, I would expect Louw to come forward in defence of McCaw. The 2 sides respect each other, and they know that that wasn't a deliberate cheap shot. As it is, it wasn't even a shot at all, the hip appears to have bumped Louw's shoulder.

best post I've read this year.

.ak

Ardillaun wrote: »

Louw should be offering online courses to wings on how to tackle Savea. He got in some great ones on the big man.

Well it helps if you're a wing forward...

Ardillaun

.ak wrote: »

Well it helps if you're a wing forward...

Maybe that's the answer to a problem like Savea? Put a wing forward out there.

Ardillaun

Ardillaun wrote: »

Maybe that's the answer to a problem like Savea? Put a wing forward out there.

Depends if you plan on scoring tries on the wing.

Ardillaun

Basil3 wrote: »

Depends if you plan on scoring tries on the wing.

I think the main problem is stopping tries when he's playing. Wasn't POM a wing at one time? Maybe we haven't gone negative enough yet? I'm half serious.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Surely setting up your defense to stop the ball getting to the wing is the way to stop Savea, rather than literally trying to stop him.

.ak

Ardillaun wrote: »

Maybe that's the answer to a problem like Savea? Put a wing forward out there.

Nah wings have dealt with Savea before. Wings are often put up against big centres and backrowers. The prospect of Savea isn't something new. Positioning and confidence is key, close off the space and make the correct decision in defence and you can deal with big wingers.

Savea blasted France apart because they were at sixes and sevens, when you're turning back to make a tackle you've already lost the contact.

CatFromHue

.ak wrote: »

Savea blasted France apart because they were at sixes and sevens

and they didn't want to tackle him either!

Ardillaun

.ak wrote: »

Nah wings have dealt with Savea before. Wings are often put up against big centres and backrowers. The prospect of Savea isn't something new. Positioning and confidence is key, close off the space and make the correct decision in defence and you can deal with big wingers.

Savea blasted France apart because they were at sixes and sevens, when you're turning back to make a tackle you've already lost the contact.

He scored a lot of tries against other teams, too. I certainly would not deny that organization is key to stopping him getting the ball.

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

and they didn't want to tackle him either!

And they all tried to tackle him around the shoulders.

There's a whole pile of reasons Savea scored that try. His size and power contributed. But so did the fractured defence, his momentum and the poor attempts at tackling him high up as opposed to low down. He's a great winger, but a few people seem to have lost all perspective after that try. As with a lot of other things this RWC.

CurryFlavoured

Ardillaun wrote: »

Louw should be offering online courses to wings on how to tackle Savea. He got in some great ones on the big man.

Great player, best 6 of the tournament.