Dublin has too many traffic lights

Spanish Eyes

Is there anyone out there who travels down the North Quays?

I actually laugh now and have a mantra.... "See a bus - go Red". This is at the Hapenny Bridge.

EVERY TIME. I honestly have never been on a bus that got through on a green light there!

And to think there are up to 80 people on that bus. But anyway, just thought I'd share that likkle bit of frustration with you all.

KingBrian2

In Dublin the Bicycle is the best most mobile way to travel and navigate the streets and roads. I'll grant you on a wet day buses can do the trick, that does not take away from the fact that with the amount of lights on the road traffic is gridlocked. When that Luas line in fully built only then will the free space be opened up to allow greater flow. Right now though keep using the Bike if and when you can. Pedestrians are no better than cyclist although I have seen too many cyclists given fellow recreational cyclists like myself a bad name.

BOHtox

How there isn't a pedestrian crossing from Bishop street to Kevin Street and vice-versa is beyond me. The pain access point from Patrick street, where a dozen buses must stop, and you put your life in your hands every time you make the run across.

wotswattage

Some lights will never ever turn green for cars unless you drive forwards past the painted stop line into the 'bike zone'. These were all created without moving the under-road sensors back to where the cars now have to stop... Great engineering!

KingBrian2

wotswattage wrote: »

Some lights will never ever turn green for cars unless you drive forwards past the painted stop line into the 'bike zone'. These were all created without moving the under-road sensors back to where the cars now have to stop... Great engineering!

Never knew that.:eek:

Athlone is also bad for overzealous use of lights.
The local council refurbished all the junctions on the bypass recently, previously they were all Yield signs which were a pain as traffic was simply too heavy for the simple minor road joining a major road priority system. So they went to the extreme of putting traffic lights at each and every junction.

All they do is generate queues, one set were recently knocked out and the traffic flows much better now, there really should be some mini-roundabouts placed at the secondary junctions and just lights where they are really needed.

wotswattage

wotswattage wrote: »

Some lights will never ever turn green for cars unless you drive forwards past the painted stop line into the 'bike zone'. These were all created without moving the under-road sensors back to where the cars now have to stop... Great engineering!

Joined up planning at its best. :rolleyes:

Stephen15

Yeh another thing I would say is stop putting up all the expensive standalone padestrian lights and putting in padestrian crossings where if you put out your foot the cars would have to stop another thing I would is at padestrian lights you only have to stop where you would only have to stop if there were people crossing. This is the case in most of Europe but knowing Irish drivers atitude towards padestrians and cyclists this would never work unfortunately.

KingBrian2

Motorists are sensible when it comes to traffic lights they let pedestrians cross when it is safe, the problem is it must be a nightmare being stuck in traffic. Thank god I don't drive, walk, cycle or get a helicopter is the fastest way across the city. The sooner helicopters are used around this city the better.:D

seamus

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Motorists are sensible when it comes to traffic lights they let pedestrians cross when it is safe, the problem is it must be a nightmare being stuck in traffic.

You would think so, but drivers in heavy traffic do very strange things. Especially when a light has just turned red and they're already late for work. The amount of people I've seen drive straight through a group of crossing pedestrians is unreal. They even get pissy when peds with right-of-way walk in front of their cars and stop them from going.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yeh another thing I would say is stop putting up all the expensive standalone padestrian lights and putting in padestrian crossings where if you put out your foot the cars would have to stop another thing I would is at padestrian lights you only have to stop where you would only have to stop if there were people crossing.

There are zebra crossings around, but it's an issue of balance. If you put these up on roads which experience exceptionally heavy vehicular and pedestrian traffic, you'll have gridlock. Think about having a zebra crossing at the Ha'penny bridge crossing on the Dublin quays. It would be absolute chaos as the flow of pedestrians would be near-constant.

A better strategy* would be to have standard pedestrian crossings which went though a red/amber/green sequence during heavier hours, and then revert to pelican crossings with constant flashing amber for everyone the rest of the time.
Though I'm not sure if the latter is available as an option under current legislation.

*Not on the quays, but other roads like Rathmines

sdanseo

Pedestrian only lights should be outright banned and replaced by zebra/pelican crossings or footbridges, subways etc.

There is no excuse for traffic lights on or within 200m of a roundabout, yet we seem to have a love affair with putting them there, especially pedestrian lights right beside all four arms of a roundabout leading to chaos.

sdanseo

sdanseo wrote: »

Pedestrian only lights should be outright banned and replaced by zebra/pelican crossings or footbridges, subways etc.

There is no excuse for traffic lights on or within 200m of a roundabout, yet we seem to have a love affair with putting them there, especially pedestrian lights right beside all four arms of a roundabout leading to chaos.

On some roundabouts, traffic lights help by delaying traffic flowing in one arm which allows traffic to enter another arm.

Sometimes at busy times traffic can back up on an entrance that is after the busy one as there is a constant stream of vehicles joining.

SPDUB

seamus wrote: »

A better strategy* would be to have standard pedestrian crossings which went though a red/amber/green sequence during heavier hours, and then revert to pelican crossings with constant flashing amber for everyone the rest of the time.
Though I'm not sure if the latter is available as an option under current legislation.

The feeder junction for St Mary's Rd opposite Our Lady's Hospital in Crumlin works like that at night .It only goes to Red if a car comes up Kildare Rd and then goes back to flashing Amber .

Carawaystick

sdanseo wrote: »

Pedestrian only lights should be outright banned and replaced by zebra/pelican crossings or footbridges, subways etc.

There is no excuse for traffic lights on or within 200m of a roundabout, yet we seem to have a love affair with putting them there, especially pedestrian lights right beside all four arms of a roundabout leading to chaos.

How should people walking cross the roundabout junction so?

crushproof

Uproar from the safety crowd if the lights started being replaced by zebra crossings. Same as the turn on red idea (although to be fair I had a few hair raising crossing experiences of that in Canada).
Controversial I know, but I think cyclists should be allowed run pedestrian red lights (with due care for pedestrians of course). Obviously not lights at junctions but at single pedestrian traffic lights I see no issue, I'd treat it the same as motorists using the flashing amber light.

franer1970

Pedestrian crossings that go red for no good reason - as if the button is stuck in - do my head in.
One on Essex Quay in Dublin did it for years. Regular as clockwork when I came down Capel St, crossed Grattan Bridge and turned right it would be red. I was rejoicing when it was finally fixed a few months ago.
Proximity to Civic Offices makes me think it was deliberate set up by DCC - it handily allowed vehicles to exit from Fishamble St.

monument

Dublin mainly have a high level of traffic lights because it has a high level of motor traffic. Lower the amount of motor traffic and then you can lower the amount of traffic lights.

There's a number of recent Dutch examples of traffic light removal after motor traffic was reduced.

Sam Russell wrote: »

With idiotic thinking like that, no wonder the lights are causing huge delays.

Stopping speeding is more important that having free-flow.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Is there anyone out there who travels down the North Quays?

I actually laugh now and have a mantra.... "See a bus - go Red". This is at the Hapenny Bridge.

EVERY TIME. I honestly have never been on a bus that got through on a green light there!

And to think there are up to 80 people on that bus. But anyway, just thought I'd share that likkle bit of frustration with you all.

How many people do you think cross the Hapenny Bridge every day?

D.L.R.

franer1970 wrote: »

Pedestrian crossings that go red for no good reason - as if the button is stuck in - do my head in.
One on Essex Quay in Dublin did it for years. Regular as clockwork when I came down Capel St, crossed Grattan Bridge and turned right it would be red. I was rejoicing when it was finally fixed a few months ago.
Proximity to Civic Offices makes me think it was deliberate set up by DCC - it handily allowed vehicles to exit from Fishamble St.

Quite. And pedestrian crossings that stay red for a stupid amount of time. I'd love if we had more of those pelican crossings with the flashing orange beacons - you can just drive on through when its clear.

Waiting at an idiot-programmed red light for no good reason can be exasperating.

We should also absolutely introduce the "amber before green" you see in many other countries.

Sam Russell

monument wrote: »

Stopping speeding is more important that having free-flow.

It is a very blunt instrument used badly. If I set off as the first car from a light (as a normal driver) and travel at or close to the speed limit up to the next light which turns red in my face, then it would be expected that the next time I will exceed the speed limit to get to the next light before it turns red in my face.

Proper design will get the next light to turn from red to green just before I arrive to encourage me not to exceed the speed limit. If this was normal, then so would obeying the speed limit - and traffic would flow freely. It is idiotic to use the traffic lights as some kind of blunt speed enforcer.

traprunner

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is a very blunt instrument used badly. If I set off as the first car from a light (as a normal driver) and travel at or close to the speed limit up to the next light which turns red in my face, then it would be expected that the next time I will exceed the speed limit to get to the next light before it turns red in my face.

Proper design will get the next light to turn from red to green just before I arrive to encourage me not to exceed the speed limit. If this was normal, then so would obeying the speed limit - and traffic would flow freely. It is idiotic to use the traffic lights as some kind of blunt speed enforcer.

Why would it be expected? Only an idiot would drive like that.

Carawaystick

traprunner wrote: »

Why would it be expected? Only an idiot would drive like that.

what percentage of drivers are idiots though?

traprunner

traprunner wrote: »

Why would it be expected? Only an idiot would drive like that.

With a properly sequenced set of lights, they'll go green as you approach them. If you're speeding they'll be red when you reach them.

monument

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is a very blunt instrument used badly. If I set off as the first car from a light (as a normal driver) and travel at or close to the speed limit up to the next light which turns red in my face, then it would be expected that the next time I will exceed the speed limit to get to the next light before it turns red in my face.

If that becomes an issue they can set up detection loops to detect speeding and turn lights red.

Very blunt instruments are very much so needed where there's high volumes of pedestrians and people on bicycles. Very blunt instruments are also needed when you're working within a national system which is so backwards in its car-centric-ness that we're one of the only developed countries without fixed speed cameras.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Proper design will get the next light to turn from red to green just before I arrive to encourage me not to exceed the speed limit. If this was normal, then so would obeying the speed limit - and traffic would flow freely. It is idiotic to use the traffic lights as some kind of blunt speed enforcer.

Really depends on the area and flows of people and traffic. You really should not be expecting a green all the time when driving in city centres where priority should be given to walking, cycling, public transport, and other traffic routes crossing the route you're on.

Sam Russell

monument wrote: »

If that becomes an issue they can set up detection loops to detect speeding and turn lights red.

Very blunt instruments are very much so needed where there's high volumes of pedestrians and people on bicycles. Very blunt instruments are also needed when you're working within a national system which is so backwards in its car-centric-ness that we're one of the only developed countries without fixed speed cameras.



Really depends on the area and flows of people and traffic. You really should not be expecting a green all the time when driving in city centres where priority should be given to walking, cycling, public transport, and other traffic routes crossing the route you're on.

I do not disagree with any of your points. What I was reacting to was the statement that they use red lights to prevent speeding on the quays - as a blanket measure. No mention of pedestrians or bikes - just stop the lights. This is what causes grid lock on the quays. Free flow is much safer for everybody.

We live in a backward country - no doubt about it. Remember in the 60s, buses had their routing blinds blacked out so people would not run after buses they were behind. Who thought that up?

Carawaystick

I used to see a green wave on the old N11 from Donybrook Church out to the pedestrian lights past the Stillorgan Park hotel, which seemed to be independent of any green wave inside or outside it.
I saw a green wave at 5am o BoltonSt/DorsetSt/Drumcondra both times I drove from the Coombe home

If I go to Luxemburg, I get a green wave every major route out of the city centre, all the time; while coming in I suffer the same jams as in Dublin.

maxfresh

mark085 wrote: »

theres a road around my way that has 10 sets within 1 kilometer
and them imtech lads who programme them seem to make a bolox of each1

i'm one of the lads in imtech ,we dont programme them just wire them and fix faults, in dublin and a lot of dun loairghe the lights are on a system called scats (sydney cordinated adaptive traffic system) each juction is linked back to the control room and they have complete control of the timings and phasing.

josip

What's the range in cost for a set of lights from a simple set of pedestrian lights to a full set for an N11 type junction? €1,000 - €5,000?
Is there an annual support/service charge for maintaining them or are they pay as you go per fix?
Someone is doing well out of their recent proliferation, could it be someone with Dennis O'Brien type connections?

Also, how is it possible to program a green wave in both directions on a road with multiple sets of traffic lights?
At some stage you'll hit the wave coming in the opposite direction and one of the waves has to lose out?

paulbok

sdanseo wrote: »

Pedestrian only lights should be outright banned and replaced by zebra/pelican crossings or footbridges, subways etc.

There is no excuse for traffic lights on or within 200m of a roundabout, yet we seem to have a love affair with putting them there, especially pedestrian lights right beside all four arms of a roundabout leading to chaos.

There is a set of lights for a pedestrian crossing just before the roundabout when you come off the M50 heading for Terenure just after the Spawell Hotel, and are so close to the roundabout that you would think they give the traffic the right of way on to the roundabout. Several times I've witnessed cars go straight on with the green light onto the roundabout causing traffic coming from the right to have to jam on the brakes.
No reason they couldn't be relocated further away from the roundabout.

monument

josip wrote: »

What's the range in cost for a set of lights from a simple set of pedestrian lights to a full set for an N11 type junction? €1,000 - €5,000?

Try more in the range of €20,000 to €100,000!

paulbok wrote: »

There is a set of lights for a pedestrian crossing just before the roundabout when you come off the M50 heading for Terenure just after the Spawell Hotel, and are so close to the roundabout that you would think they give the traffic the right of way on to the roundabout. Several times I've witnessed cars go straight on with the green light onto the roundabout causing traffic coming from the right to have to jam on the brakes.
No reason they couldn't be relocated further away from the roundabout.

Yes, there is reason, to give people walking and cycling some kind of priority.

The real solution is Dutch-like grade segragated under/overpass.

Coat22

I moved back to Dublin recently and travel 25km cross city twice a day (to D4 so M50 is not an option). The trip home take 1:15 to 1:30 and I was convinced it was just traffic.

Then one Friday I came home and never really got held up anywhere, the result? Still 1:10 of a commute. I too came to conclusion the amount of traffic lights actually makes a straight forward commute a disaster.

But recently I've been looking at the sequencing. Some crazy stuff:

Lower Bridge St Pedestrian lights go green (and red for traffic) when the lgiths are red on the quays thus stopping traffic from moving. Simple fix - only let the pedestrian light go green when lights on the quays are green.

Crossing the Luas (red line) The reason most drivers are running these is because they typically go red for traffic when the light onto the quays goes green so you sit there helplessly (As does traffic on the quays) while the luas passes (or not!) and no traffic avails of the green sequence.

Plenty of other examples where I've set at red lights and no traffic is coming from either side as the lights are red for this same traffic further on.