"There's nothing heroic about Ireland’s World Cup failure" - The Times

Pudsy33

A scrum-half in for a centre and there is no argument to be had? Pfft![/quote]


They knew Sexton was hurt, but didn't know how badly. As it transpired, Sexton was going to miss the Argentina game. Madigan was our 3rd choice 9, but as he had to start at 10, we needed another scrummy. Boss was called up. Makes sense no?

captbarnacles

I thought Joe rated Trimble very highly? and he said leaving him out was a very tough decision.

Pudsy33

m@cc@ wrote: »

But Trimble has played outside centre for Ulster and Ireland?

Dint remember that myself. If I'm wrong, I hold my hands up.

aimee1

captbarnacles wrote: »

I thought Joe rated Trimble very highly? and he said leaving him out was a very tough decision.

It was a needs must decision during the rwc. The opinion JS has of trimble didnt come into it.

molloyjh

m@cc@ wrote: »

This was published at the start of September. We all knew why he wasn't originally selected.

Because he was injured at a really bad time which limited his opportunities in camp and allowed others to stake their claim. Joe rates Trimble very highly, and that's widely known.

Deleted User wrote: »

Obviously the players were missed, but it's worth pointing out that very few people believed this going into the match. I heard very few people suggest that with five key players missing we didn't have a chance. Well, actually I heard nobody suggest that.

As I said multiple times before a lot of us fooled ourselves into thinking our back ups were better than they were. A good few also managed to go into the game thinking Argentina weren't particularly good.

And as I said multiple times if you go back to before the tournament a lot of us said we wouldn't make a SF unless at least 2 of POC, Murray and Best were available, so important were they to our chances.

davegrohl48

sydthebeat wrote: »

well thats patently incorrect



http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/world-cup/trimbles-injury-scuppered-his-world-cup-hopes-says-ireland-chief-schmidt-31496012.html

but dont let the truth get in the way of your vitriol

We are aware the injury interfered with his selection, but he was in a far better position in relation to 100% fit and 100% in form than Cian Healy.
Also Andrew Trimble at 99% fit is still physically the best backup for Payne.
Trimble had also played wasnt it one more game for Ulster when the requirement to replace Payne was still there.

captbarnacles

Deleted User wrote: »

Obviously the players were missed, but it's worth pointing out that very few people believed this going into the match. I heard very few people suggest that with five key players missing we didn't have a chance. Well, actually I heard nobody suggest that.

Nobody suggested we had no chance and it would be a fairly idiotic thing to say. Of course we had a chance. There were plenty who said it was a game that could go either way due to injuries we had.

m@cc@

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Dint remember that myself. If I'm wrong, I hold my hands up.

I'm not saying he's played there more times than Earls but he shouldn't be dismissed as inexperienced in the position.

molloyjh

davegrohl48 wrote: »

We are aware the injury interfered with his selection, but he was in a far better position in relation to 100% fit and 100% in form than Cian Healy.
Also Andrew Trimble at 99% fit is still physically the best backup for Payne.
Trimble had also played wasnt it one more game for Ulster when the requirement to replace Payne was still there.

The options at LH and the options on the wing were quite different though so it's not a like for like comparison. Also Trimbles experience at 13 is very, very limited. When did he last play there above Pro12 level? There's simply no way that a guy who has played very little at 13 would be drafted into the squad late in the day to go into the 13 shirt. That would be a truly crazy decision.

jimmybeige

m@cc@ wrote: »

It's not clear to me, so help me out, please.



A scrum-half in for a centre and there is no argument to be had? Pfft!

He had already taken a risk by only taking two scrumhalves, so three is the norm. He didn't bring Boss in for Payne, he brought him in as Madigan was possibly starting and he was also the third choice scrum-half in emergency. Now that we had an injury at outhalf we needed a backup scrumhalf i.e Boss.

We already had every decent centre in Ireland already in the squad.. Henshaw, Payne (eventually injured), Fitz, Earls, Cave. Suggesting we needed Trimble in the centre ahead of our fit centres and that would somehow solve our problems...:rolleyes:

CatFromHue

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'm not saying he's played there more times than Earls but he shouldn't be dismissed as inexperienced in the position.

It's along time ago now he played centre so yeah, realistically he should be dismissed as a centre option. If he never made the move to wing and just stayed a centre we wouldn't be talking about him in relation to Ireland at all.

davegrohl48

molloyjh wrote: »

The options at LH and the options on the wing were quite different though so it's not a like for like comparison. Also Trimbles experience at 13 is very, very limited. When did he last play there above Pro12 level? There's simply no way that a guy who has played very little at 13 would be drafted into the squad late in the day to go into the 13 shirt. That would be a truly crazy decision.

Well in my view we don't play a particularly expansive game requiring too much from the 13. Secondly the Argentinian ball carriers were not using footwork or agility in the central areas, big men were running straight and bulldozing the likes of Madigan and Earls backwards.
So for the role in how we would play it, and how Argentina took us on, and given how Trimble would not be driven backwards even by a flanker I believe he would have been more suited to 13. We could have done with his physicality and strong defence, and I don't think knowing where to lineup would have been a problem, they were making the decision for us by crashing into us with their backrow straight on.
Also I don't believe we are that supremely talented that pro 12 level is something to be dismissive of.

sydthebeat

davegrohl48 wrote: »

We are aware the injury interfered with his selection, but he was in a far better position in relation to 100% fit and 100% in form than Cian Healy.
Also Andrew Trimble at 99% fit is still physically the best backup for Payne.
Trimble had also played wasnt it one more game for Ulster when the requirement to replace Payne was still there.

fine, but not AT ALL the point i was making

jimmybeige

davegrohl48 wrote: »

So for the role in how we would play it, and how Argentina took us on, and given how Trimble would not be driven backwards even by a flanker I believe he would have been more suited to 13.

If he was more suited to 13 surely he'd be playing there ahead of Cave at Ulster.

davegrohl48 wrote: »

We could have done with his physicality and strong defence, and I don't think knowing where to lineup would have been a problem, they were making the decision for us by crashing into us with their backrow straight on..

Strong defence on the wing and at 13 are not the same. Just because your a big strong guy doesn't mean you can make the defensive decisions that a 13 has to make. If that was your criteria you may as well just stick a backrow in there, although that has been suggested here before, so this isn't so surprising.

davegrohl48

sydthebeat wrote: »

fine, but not AT ALL the point i was making

True that that was not your point, I believe he rates Andrew Trimble highly, as he was loyal to him in selection previously.

Fair point on Cave, I'm just a fan of Trimbles physicality and I think the whole 13 is a world of difference from 14 defensively gets overplayed.

I guess the main point is that Earls got demolished physically, and that was not his fault, get someone in there who is stronger.

WarZ

I've said this already but the team is vastly overrated. We get ahead of ourselves seeing our players play in the meek Pro12 against poor quality players. Would the likes of Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls be considered superstars in the Super 15? Not a chance!

These are incredibly mediocre players who we call world class regularly. R.Kearney is a world class full back, Tommy Bowe and Keith Earls are world class wingers.. it's all nonsense. You want to see actual world class wingers? Look at Savea or North or Habana. Those sort of players can actually turn a game on its head. Is Rob Kearney on par with the likes of Mike Brown or Leigh Halfpenny? He is in his arse!

Yet time and time again we convince ourselves that these players are superstars, on par with the best in the world and it's just not true. There is a player on the bench for New Zealand, who is a rugby league convert that would probably be the best player in our backline by some distance if he was Irish.

We scream at the top of our lungs about the power and potential of Iain Henderson because he can actually make yards! Now Henderson probably could be world class but the fact that we are so in awe of someone that can actually make yards is pathetic itself. From 1-8 in the New Zealand pack the players make yards. That's what a world class pack looks like. Hell even the French pack can make more yards than our lot and France are playing like a complete drain. We have only one genuinely world class player in our pack at the moment and that is Sean O'Brien. Now for a team that wants to be ranked in the top 3 in the world that is beyond pathetic.

And let's talk about rankings and how useless they are. Ireland would be nowhere near no.2 if they had to play the likes of NZ, Australia, SA and Argentina every year. Ireland can count their blessings that England, Scotland and France are in dyer straits at the moment. England and France in particular have probably never been so weak.

So basically you have a load of sub standard players (sub standard in relation to the elite levels of international rugby) who believe their own hype. The likes of Connor Murray, Simon Zebo, Cian Healy, Keith Earls believe they are masters of the game and just don't progress to their full potential. Their attitude and ego doesn't allow it and because the media rarely if ever criticizes individual players the young players like those mentioned disregard their poor games.

Keith Earls is considered one of our best players in the backline and he has the handling skills of a NZ prop, he knocks on regularly, passes poorly, makes poor decisions and cannot marshal a defence to save his life. Jared Payne is also considered one of our best players in the backline, a NZ cast off who couldn't even make a 22 man squad for a NZ friendly test. Do you think NZ are quaking in their boots at the thought of having to come up against the almighty Payne?! If he was in anyway elite or even close to it then he would have been capped by now. I admit Henshaw could be a good player but the guy is just a battering ram. A poor man's Bastauraud, a poorer man's Roberts.

We started two props last weekend that couldn't even run around the pitch, Healy too bulked up with useless muscles that slow him down, tire him quicker and disintegrate his handling skills and Ross who is simply too out of shape and whose main contribution seems to be waffling around the pitch and flapping over onto an already won/lost ruck every so often.

Rory Best, so so so so overrated. Someone asked me in another thread to explain that. Well he simply ISN'T that amazing on the ground and he is definitely not as good around the pitch as any hooker in the 4 nations and even an English hooker who can't even make the English squad - Dylan Hartley - is a much better player than Best. I am sick to the teeth of hearing about how Best is world class because he is like having an extra flanker on the pitch! He's average compared to the top hookers. Did Best ever start a Lions test?

Heaslip, mr.mediocre. Yes he leads the stats of the pack and performs the best but that's only because the pack is so brutal. He is doing his hard work and clocking out after a hard day at the office and seems to be going through the motions. Look at the likes of Picamoles and his performance against New Zealand despite his team being trashed. Is Heaslip capable of those games anymore? Will he go down the route of O'Connell as a big name churning out fairly average performances? At least O'Connell has age as his excuse although maybe Heaslip is playing far too much rugby without getting a proper rest.


Sean O'Brien is the only world class player on that team, maybe Sexton too if he would be capable of not getting injured all the time.

I will see this once and not again, Cian Healy, Rory Best, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony, Connor Murray, Keith Earls, Rob Kearney are NOT world class. Some were in world class form in the past, some have always been average enough and some are overrated to the hilts by a zealot supporter base that believes every decent player they churn out is going to be world class and should be instantly parachuted into the starting team.

The Irish rugby players get far too much respect. They are not one of the top 3 teams in the world. Most of them would not even get into the NZ squad. In fact I struggle to find one player who would make the NZ squad, maybe someone could refresh my memory?

techdiver

molloyjh wrote: »

This isn't analysis though. It's a review of what happened. Analysis looks into why it happened.



But yet we beat Australia and SA in November without playing expansively. This doesn't even review, let alone analyse, what happened on Sunday. It's just a vague retelling of things that some people we saying.



We do have the best depth ever. For Ireland. And that is a good thing. But as I've been saying it's still not where it needs to be. Developing that takes time and in fairness we are going in the right direction on it.



But how exactly did that impact the game on Sunday? The injuries we had were all explainable other than maybe Sextons. The France game was a high impact game and we suffered for it. And I'm not sure where we've sacrificed speed and agility for bulk tbh. Ireland are hardly the biggest team out there.



We are not New Zealand and we can't play like them. Maybe in a few years we can, but we are not that team right now. And there is absolutely no guarantee that this game plan would have beaten Argentina. None. Again this isn't analysis of the game and what happened. It's more vague, broad strokes repeating of random opinions.

Great so. We need to change nothing and keep doing what we do all the time between World Cups. Nothing to see here.

Bogsnorkler

WarZ wrote: »

I've said this already but the team is vastly overrated. We get ahead of ourselves seeing our players play in the meek Pro12 against poor quality players. Would the likes of Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls be considered superstars in the Super 15? Not a chance!

These are incredibly mediocre players who we call world class regularly. R.Kearney is a world class full back, Tommy Bowe and Keith Earls are world class wingers.. it's all nonsense. You want to see actual world class wingers? Look at Savea or North or Habana. Those sort of players can actually turn a game on its head. Is Rob Kearney on par with the likes of Mike Brown or Leigh Halfpenny? He is in his arse!

Yet time and time again we convince ourselves that these players are superstars, on par with the best in the world and it's just not true. There is a player on the bench for New Zealand, who is a rugby league convert that would probably be the best player in our backline by some distance if he was Irish.

We scream at the top of our lungs about the power and potential of Iain Henderson because he can actually make yards! Now Henderson probably could be world class but the fact that we are so in awe of someone that can actually make yards is pathetic itself. From 1-8 in the New Zealand pack the players make yards. That's what a world class pack looks like. Hell even the French pack can make more yards than our lot and France are playing like a complete drain. We have only one genuinely world class player in our pack at the moment and that is Sean O'Brien. Now for a team that wants to be ranked in the top 3 in the world that is beyond pathetic.

And let's talk about rankings and how useless they are. Ireland would be nowhere near no.2 if they had to play the likes of NZ, Australia, SA and Argentina every year. Ireland can count their blessings that England, Scotland and France are in dyer straits at the moment. England and France in particular have probably never been so weak.

So basically you have a load of sub standard players (sub standard in relation to the elite levels of international rugby) who believe their own hype. The likes of Connor Murray, Simon Zebo, Cian Healy, Keith Earls believe they are masters of the game and just don't progress to their full potential. Their attitude and ego doesn't allow it and because the media rarely if ever criticizes individual players the young players like those mentioned disregard their poor games.

Keith Earls is considered one of our best players in the backline and he has the handling skills of a NZ prop, he knocks on regularly, passes poorly, makes poor decisions and cannot marshal a defence to save his life. Jared Payne is also considered one of our best players in the backline, a NZ cast off who couldn't even make a 22 man squad for a NZ friendly test. Do you think NZ are quaking in their boots at the thought of having to come up against the almighty Payne?! If he was in anyway elite or even close to it then he would have been capped by now. I admit Henshaw could be a good player but the guy is just a battering ram. A poor man's Bastauraud, a poorer man's Roberts.

We started two props last weekend that couldn't even run around the pitch, Healy too bulked up with useless muscles that slow him down, tire him quicker and disintegrate his handling skills and Ross who is simply too out of shape and whose main contribution seems to be waffling around the pitch and flapping over onto an already won/lost ruck every so often.

Rory Best, so so so so overrated. Someone asked me in another thread to explain that. Well he simply ISN'T that amazing on the ground and he is definitely not as good around the pitch as any hooker in the 4 nations and even an English hooker who can't even make the English squad - Dylan Hartley - is a much better player than Best. I am sick to the teeth of hearing about how Best is world class because he is like having an extra flanker on the pitch! He's average compared to the top hookers. Did Best ever start a Lions test?

Heaslip, mr.mediocre. Yes he leads the stats of the pack and performs the best but that's only because the pack is so brutal. He is doing his hard work and clocking out after a hard day at the office and seems to be going through the motions. Look at the likes of Picamoles and his performance against New Zealand despite his team being trashed. Is Heaslip capable of those games anymore? Will he go down the route of O'Connell as a big name churning out fairly average performances? At least O'Connell has age as his excuse although maybe Heaslip is playing far too much rugby without getting a proper rest.


Sean O'Brien is the only world class player on that team, maybe Sexton too if he would be capable of not getting injured all the time.

I will see this once and not again, Cian Healy, Rory Best, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony, Connor Murray, Keith Earls, Rob Kearney are NOT world class. Some were in world class form in the past, some have always been average enough and some are overrated to the hilts by a zealot supporter base that believes every decent player they churn out is going to be world class and should be instantly parachuted into the starting team.

The Irish rugby players get far too much respect. They are not one of the top 3 teams in the world. Most of them would not even get into the NZ squad. In fact I struggle to find one player who would make the NZ squad, maybe someone could refresh my memory?

Any opinion on POM :pac:

WarZ

Also its pretty obvious why Trimble wasn't brought, the players hate him. Ever watch an interprovincial with Trimble? There is always at least one scuffle involving Trimble and a fellow opposition country man.

m@cc@

WarZ wrote: »

Also its pretty obvious why Trimble wasn't brought, the players hate him. Ever watch an interprovincial with Trimble? There is always at least one scuffle involving Trimble and a fellow opposition country man.

Oh God.

jimmybeige

WarZ wrote: »

I've said this already but the team is vastly overrated. We get ahead of ourselves seeing our players play in the meek Pro12 against poor quality players. Would the likes of Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls be considered superstars in the Super 15? Not a chance!

These are incredibly mediocre players who we call world class regularly. R.Kearney is a world class full back, Tommy Bowe and Keith Earls are world class wingers.. it's all nonsense. You want to see actual world class wingers? Look at Savea or North or Habana. Those sort of players can actually turn a game on its head. Is Rob Kearney on par with the likes of Mike Brown or Leigh Halfpenny? He is in his arse!

Yet time and time again we convince ourselves that these players are superstars, on par with the best in the world and it's just not true. There is a player on the bench for New Zealand, who is a rugby league convert that would probably be the best player in our backline by some distance if he was Irish.

We scream at the top of our lungs about the power and potential of Iain Henderson because he can actually make yards! Now Henderson probably could be world class but the fact that we are so in awe of someone that can actually make yards is pathetic itself. From 1-8 in the New Zealand pack the players make yards. That's what a world class pack looks like. Hell even the French pack can make more yards than our lot and France are playing like a complete drain. We have only one genuinely world class player in our pack at the moment and that is Sean O'Brien. Now for a team that wants to be ranked in the top 3 in the world that is beyond pathetic.

And let's talk about rankings and how useless they are. Ireland would be nowhere near no.2 if they had to play the likes of NZ, Australia, SA and Argentina every year. Ireland can count their blessings that England, Scotland and France are in dyer straits at the moment. England and France in particular have probably never been so weak.

So basically you have a load of sub standard players (sub standard in relation to the elite levels of international rugby) who believe their own hype. The likes of Connor Murray, Simon Zebo, Cian Healy, Keith Earls believe they are masters of the game and just don't progress to their full potential. Their attitude and ego doesn't allow it and because the media rarely if ever criticizes individual players the young players like those mentioned disregard their poor games.

Keith Earls is considered one of our best players in the backline and he has the handling skills of a NZ prop, he knocks on regularly, passes poorly, makes poor decisions and cannot marshal a defence to save his life. Jared Payne is also considered one of our best players in the backline, a NZ cast off who couldn't even make a 22 man squad for a NZ friendly test. Do you think NZ are quaking in their boots at the thought of having to come up against the almighty Payne?! If he was in anyway elite or even close to it then he would have been capped by now. I admit Henshaw could be a good player but the guy is just a battering ram. A poor man's Bastauraud, a poorer man's Roberts.

We started two props last weekend that couldn't even run around the pitch, Healy too bulked up with useless muscles that slow him down, tire him quicker and disintegrate his handling skills and Ross who is simply too out of shape and whose main contribution seems to be waffling around the pitch and flapping over onto an already won/lost ruck every so often.

Rory Best, so so so so overrated. Someone asked me in another thread to explain that. Well he simply ISN'T that amazing on the ground and he is definitely not as good around the pitch as any hooker in the 4 nations and even an English hooker who can't even make the English squad - Dylan Hartley - is a much better player than Best. I am sick to the teeth of hearing about how Best is world class because he is like having an extra flanker on the pitch! He's average compared to the top hookers. Did Best ever start a Lions test?

Heaslip, mr.mediocre. Yes he leads the stats of the pack and performs the best but that's only because the pack is so brutal. He is doing his hard work and clocking out after a hard day at the office and seems to be going through the motions. Look at the likes of Picamoles and his performance against New Zealand despite his team being trashed. Is Heaslip capable of those games anymore? Will he go down the route of O'Connell as a big name churning out fairly average performances? At least O'Connell has age as his excuse although maybe Heaslip is playing far too much rugby without getting a proper rest.


Sean O'Brien is the only world class player on that team, maybe Sexton too if he would be capable of not getting injured all the time.

I will see this once and not again, Cian Healy, Rory Best, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony, Connor Murray, Keith Earls, Rob Kearney are NOT world class. Some were in world class form in the past, some have always been average enough and some are overrated to the hilts by a zealot supporter base that believes every decent player they churn out is going to be world class and should be instantly parachuted into the starting team.

The Irish rugby players get far too much respect. They are not one of the top 3 teams in the world. Most of them would not even get into the NZ squad. In fact I struggle to find one player who would make the NZ squad, maybe someone could refresh my memory?

What's the point of this post? To just call people mediocre? There's no analysis here except listing almost all of the Irish team and calling them mediocre. An Irish team who by the way won the last two six nations and were ranked no. 2 in the world recently.

We perhaps had overly optimistic hopes against Argentina, but the players you list above are the best we have in the country.

Also, Best is a very good player who has been off form when the Lions came around. I suspect when he leaves you'll see his worth. The drop off after him is considerable. And O'Connell has been a great player even in his latter years.

davegrohl48

Beware the scuffler,
Known by his blonde hair,
Friend, foe and enemy,
He scuffles all he dare

WarZ

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

Any opinion on POM :pac:

Runs sideways a lot bringing up his stats, can be very impressive with the aggression he carries around the pitch but he's no Dusatoir, he has dreadful tackling stats regularly for Ireland, he's nowhere close to Kaino or Burger but the way people go on about him you'd swear he was a world beater. In my opinion he's Gorgodze minus the God(ze). He tries to play a tough, aggressive game but when he comes up against big, tough opponents he goes missing, he will literally hide away (like he did against England one year when he made one tackle and very few carries). When things are going well though he can be rampaging.

Hell, I think Nyanga is better than Peter O'Mahony and he doesn't even start for France.

WarZ

jimmybeige wrote: »

What's the point of this post? To just call people mediocre? There's no analysis here except listing almost all of the Irish team and calling them mediocre. An Irish team who by the way won the last two six nations and were ranked no. 2 in the world recently.

We perhaps had overly optimistic hopes against Argentina, but the players you list above are the best we have in the country.

Also, Best is a very good player who has been off form when the Lions came around. I suspect when he leaves you'll see his worth. The drop off after him is considerable. And O'Connell has been a great player even in his latter years.

Oh come on, France and England are absolutely **** these days. Scotland and Italy are a joke. Ireland only have to beat Wales realistically and a lot of times they cant even manage that most of the time.

I'm not trying to rain on everyone's parade but I'm just giving some perspective, Irish players are miles off their southern hemisphere counterparts with the exception of Sean O'Brien. And its about time we realise that instead of believing Keith Earls and Rob Kearney are 'world class', Cian Healy is 'the best loosehead in the world' and all that nonsense.

Look if the players want to prance around acting like they are the elite few world class players in world rugby, running amok in Cork, Limerick and Dublin, then they'd want to back up their hype.

The players are far too cocky and time and time again we saw them come up short. That loss to Argentina was embarrassing. The skill sets of our players was shown for all to see. Keith Earls at 13 was like having a two legged shovel running around in circles. Our main point of attack was a two legged shovel. With 'world class' Tommy Bowe on the other wing who hasn't done anything since 2009. David Kearney was our other wing, the guy is so AIL that he could have walked out with a big 'sponsored by Ulster Bank' sign on his back and no one would have noticed.

The players have let the country down, why shouldn't we call out their weaknesses? They are paid huge amounts of money and get beaten by countries with smaller playing populations than ours and countries whose players play their club rugby all over the world. They basically had a home game throughout the world cup, probably the nicest and easiest run in of any team and the best QF draw other than Scotland. And they lost by over 20 points.

Scotland weren't even as embarrassing and Scotland were playing a much better team.

Bogsnorkler

WarZ wrote: »

Runs sideways a lot bringing up his stats, can be very impressive with the aggression he carries around the pitch but he's no Dusatoir, he has dreadful tackling stats regularly for Ireland, he's nowhere close to Kaino or Burger but the way people go on about him you'd swear he was a world beater. In my opinion he's Gorgodze minus the God(ze). He tries to play a tough, aggressive game but when he comes up against big, tough opponents he goes missing, he will literally hide away (like he did against England one year when he made one tackle and very few carries). When things are going well though he can be rampaging.

Hell, I think Nyanga is better than Peter O'Mahony and he doesn't even start for France.

Thanks, just had a feeling you had thoughts yet to share on POM.

WarZ

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

Thanks, just had a feeling you had thoughts yet to share on POM.

Look he's one of the better forwards but he's no footballer. He's not smart around the pitch like McCaw, he's not a poacher like Pocock or Warburton, he's not a tackling machine like Dusatoir and Nyanga, he can't run like Picamoles or Burger. He has a good work rate and he is aggressive. He's good in the air. That's about it.

Talk of him turning into a McCaw, Dusatoir or Pocock is far fetched considering his limited abilities. There's only so far an angry scowl on your face can get you when your team is up against it and you can't intimidate your opposite number.

Like I said, when the teams on top POM can be marvellous to watch, but he's liable to go missing when he meets an actual tough, aggressive player. He wouldn't last a minute against a Gorgodze playing that sort of game and unfortunately he cant or won't adapt his games in those situations.

Hard work ethic, passionate and aggressive but not smart, skilful or a poacher.

Cronin The Destroyer

Frankly, the reason more knives aren't out is because it's patently obvious to everyone who watched the game that we lost to the better side on the day. A team which had far less absentees, and who were playing a superior attacking style. If we'd lost under similar circumstances in the semifinals to Oz, NZ or Arg people would be less disappointed. People can see what we were trying to, and it's obvious why it didn't work (injured players, too narrow, weak defense on wings). What is important now is that we take from this defeat and improve ourselves where we are weakest (in attack).

Ie. we have a good team who need more work. Hopefully Joe stays with us and next time round we have more of an edge.

POC is gone, BOD is gone, ROG is gone. Now is the time for the new leaders to step up and go further than their predecessors did.

m@cc@

Cronin The Destroyer wrote: »

POC is gone, BOD is gone, ROG is gone. Now is the time for the new leaders to step up and go further than their predecessors did.

Sunday was the time.

WarZ

Cronin The Destroyer wrote: »

Frankly, the reason more knives aren't out is because it's patently obvious to everyone who watched the game that we lost to the better side on the day. A team which had far less absentees, and who were playing a superior attacking style. If we'd lost under similar circumstances in the semifinals to Oz, NZ or Arg people would be less disappointed. People can see what we were trying to, and it's obvious why it didn't work (injured players, too narrow, weak defense on wings). What is important now is that we take from this defeat and improve ourselves where we are weakest (in attack).

Ie. we have a good team who need more work. Hopefully Joe stays with us and next time round we have more of an edge.

POC is gone, BOD is gone, ROG is gone. Now is the time for the new leaders to step up and go further than their predecessors did.

We don't have a good team, we have a team who scrapped past Italy and were thrashed by Argentina despite having one of the most successful coaches in world rugby.

We have a decent team by the poor standards of the NH where only Wales remain competitive. We are brutal by SH standards. The NZ bench would all comfortably start for Ireland. Their skills are on another planet compared to Irelands.

QuinDixie

Fans and former players are saying there is no need too over react but I think it is more important we dont under react.
New blood and common sense is needed.

for the next 6 nations, no player should start consecutive matches.
if we continue with the same tactics POM and SOB will be the next to follow ferris.