Pick your Lions team

whatawaster · 18-10-2015 8:52pm #1

I know it's almost two years away, but with the world cup over for the home-nations, I thought it might be good to assess where we are at. I know it's hard to predict where things will be in two years, but why not have a go.

I'm discounting the likes of Best, Ross etc because they are likely to be retired come 2017.

Brown (Eng)

Watson (Eng)

North (Wal)

Joseph (Eng)---Henshaw (Ire)

Sexton (Ire)

Murray (Ire)

Warburton (Wal)

Falateau (Wal)

O'Brien (Ire)

Launchbury (Eng)

Henderson (Ire)

Cole (Eng)

Youngs (Eng)

Healy/McGrath (Ire)

A little Ireland/England-centric perhaps. AW Jones, Webb, Davies, Roberts, Halfpenny, Lydiate & Tipuric all would be close. Scotland have a lot of good young players too, and I'm sure several will make the squad and push for a test pick.

Most importantly, is this a team that could compete with the All-Blacks?

aimee1 · 18-10-2015 8:57pm

Brown, Watson, North, Davies, Henshaw, Biggar, Webb

McGrath, Baldwin, Cole, J Gray, Henderson, SOB, Warburton, Faletau

phog · 18-10-2015 9:18pm

Who's the coach?

stadedublinois · 18-10-2015 9:21pm

phog wrote: »

Who's the coach?

Saint-André is free

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 18-10-2015 11:18pm

Forgive my ignorance but how many players are in the Lions squad and is there a specific division of backs/forwards or indeed specific positions?

EDIT: I've just realised you're just doing starting 15 so none of the above matters.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 18-10-2015 11:21pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but how many players are in the Lions squad and is there a specific division of backs/forwards or indeed specific positions?

EDIT: I've just realised you're just doing starting 15 so none of the above matters.

depends on the coaches

tmc1963 · 19-10-2015 12:01am

whatawaster wrote: »

I know it's almost two years away, but with the world cup over for the home-nations, I thought it might be good to assess where we are at. I know it's hard to predict where things will be in two years, but why not have a go.

I'm discounting the likes of Best, Ross etc because they are likely to be retired come 2017.
Brown (Eng)

Watson (Eng)
North (Wal)
Joseph (Eng)---Henshaw (Ire)
Sexton (Ire)
Murray (Ire)

Warburton (Wal)
Falateau (Wal)
O'Brien (Ire)
Launchbury (Eng)
Henderson (Ire)

Cole (Eng)
Youngs (Eng)
Healy/McGrath (Ire)

A little Ireland/England-centric perhaps. AW Jones, Webb, Davies, Roberts, Halfpenny, Lydiate & Tipuric all would be close. Scotland have a lot of good young players too, and I'm sure several will make the squad and push for a test pick.

Most importantly, is this a team that could compete with the All-Blacks?

That would be a good team if you want a bottlers/failures mix

AbusesToilets · 19-10-2015 1:27am

whatawaster wrote: »

I know it's almost two years away, but with the world cup over for the home-nations, I thought it might be good to assess where we are at. I know it's hard to predict where things will be in two years, but why not have a go.

I'm discounting the likes of Best, Ross etc because they are likely to be retired come 2017.
Brown (Eng)

Watson (Eng)
North (Wal)
Joseph (Eng)---Henshaw (Ire)
Sexton (Ire)
Murray (Ire)

Warburton (Wal)
Falateau (Wal)
O'Brien (Ire)
Launchbury (Eng)
Henderson (Ire)

Cole (Eng)
Youngs (Eng)
Healy/McGrath (Ire)

A little Ireland/England-centric perhaps. AW Jones, Webb, Davies, Roberts, Halfpenny, Lydiate & Tipuric all would be close. Scotland have a lot of good young players too, and I'm sure several will make the squad and push for a test pick.

Most importantly, is this a team that could compete with the All-Blacks?

I'd take Halfpenny over Brown, probably Liam Williams or Zebo/ Fitz over Watson. Have Davies or Scott William in for Joseph if on form. AWJ over Launchbury all day long. Wouldn't guaranteed Sexton over Biggar on current form tbh.

NZ would muller them.

acemaster · 19-10-2015 2:06am

stadedublinois wrote: »

Saint-André is free

nice

19-10-2015 9:08am

whatawaster wrote: »

I know it's almost two years away, but with the world cup over for the home-nations, I thought it might be good to assess where we are at. I know it's hard to predict where things will be in two years, but why not have a go.

I'm discounting the likes of Best, Ross etc because they are likely to be retired come 2017.
Brown (Eng)

Watson (Eng)
North (Wal)
Joseph (Eng)---Henshaw (Ire)
Sexton (Ire)
Murray (Ire)

Warburton (Wal)
Falateau (Wal)
O'Brien (Ire)
Launchbury (Eng)
Henderson (Ire)

Cole (Eng)
Youngs (Eng)
Healy/McGrath (Ire)

A little Ireland/England-centric perhaps. AW Jones, Webb, Davies, Roberts, Halfpenny, Lydiate & Tipuric all would be close. Scotland have a lot of good young players too, and I'm sure several will make the squad and push for a test pick.

Most importantly, is this a team that could compete with the All-Blacks?

I think the back row could compete, and maybe sexton if he doesn't bottle it at crunch time! But aside from that it could be the most crushing lions tour ever. Scrum would get destroyed, lineout hammered, complete destruction in the centers. The press will get on the 'scrap the lions' bandwagon again.

OldRio · 19-10-2015 9:43am

IMHO they should scrap the Lions. It's well past it's sell by date. Nothing but a money making racket.

whatawaster · 19-10-2015 10:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the back row could compete, and maybe sexton if he doesn't bottle it at crunch time! But aside from that it could be the most crushing lions tour ever. Scrum would get destroyed, lineout hammered, complete destruction in the centers. The press will get on the 'scrap the lions' bandwagon again.

Really doubt the scrum or lineout would be hammered against NZ. Lots of good 2nd row options - Lawes, Launchbury, AWJ, Toner, Henderson, Gray, Gray . . .

hardCopy · 19-10-2015 11:07am

OldRio wrote: »

IMHO they should scrap the Lions. It's well past it's sell by date. Nothing but a money making racket.

Isn't all professional rugby just a money making racket?

As long as the fans enjoy it and the players buy into it it'll continue to be relevant. I can't see that changing before the next tour.

19-10-2015 11:18am

whatawaster wrote: »

Really doubt the scrum or lineout would be hammered against NZ. Lots of good 2nd row options - Lawes, Launchbury, AWJ, Toner, Henderson, Gray, Gray . . .

Well I was going by the team the OP had picked. Henderson is not quite big enough. The front row picked are all decent front row players but none of them can scrummage at the highest level if you ask me. Dan Cole got destroyed this world cup, Healy maybe im doing him a disservice and Im bitter because of yesterday but he got fairly hammered. Youngs has nothing for the scrum.

The big second row options lack ball skills, and offloading skills - or maybe that is down to the coaching these days I dont know, but I dont see them on the same level at all as the current kiwi guys.
Warburton Faletau and O'Brien to me are the only world class forwards available. Although Best is pretty close to that standard at hooker since he got his throwing together. He also puts in hits and is mobile and great at the breakdown. I look at the kiwi pack and its so mobile and skillful and fit.

Its really going to be down to the coaches to change things up for the northern hemisphere and improve our game in the period before the lions if we are to have any chance. God if Gatland is the coach I might go into hibernation for the length of it!

hogandrew · 19-10-2015 11:47am

I'd imagine it will be someone with international experience but I think Gregor Townsend would be a good choice for coach

thebaz · 19-10-2015 11:52am

OldRio wrote: »

IMHO they should scrap the Lions. It's well past it's sell by date. Nothing but a money making racket.

I love the Lions , but, in this era of professional rugby and the Home Nations failure at this WC , the idea that 4 teams have to combine to beat a SH , may not be best way to develop

RedemptionZ · 19-10-2015 12:51pm

God that's a depressing team. Here's hoping there's a few breakthroughs in the mean time.

sydthebeat · 19-10-2015 12:54pm

Youngs wouldnt be anywhere near a Lions team if selected today.. hed probably be 5th choice SH behind

Best, Hartly, Baldwin, Ford

jacothelad · 19-10-2015 2:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well I was going by the team the OP had picked. Henderson is not quite big enough.

Do you actually know what size he is? 6'6" and 19 stones+. Not quite big enough? Who bigger should take his place?

19-10-2015 2:32pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Do you actually know what size he is? 6'6" and 19 stones+. Not quite big enough? Who bigger should take his place?

Thought he was 6"4. But he doesn't seem dominant lineout material to me. Im not saying anyone should take his place, I just don't think we have the players to beat the kiwis amongst the home nations. This could be just because the NH have been coached to play in a certain way which has been badly shown up in the WC, or it could be they don't have the ability. I don't know at this stage.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 19-10-2015 3:20pm

I was trying to pick a team myself but looking at the age profiles of a lot of the forwards it's quite difficult. That said... I have just this minute realised I'm thinking World Cup 4 years wise, not Lions a little under 2 years away.

I shall return!

EDIT:
Right! This is my Lions team, although the forwards are completely open for criticism, Cole is just there because I genuinely couldn't think of anyone else. Same for Ford really, there's a serious age issue among the home nations in certain positions.

Cole

Ford

McGrath

Launchbury

Henderson

Burgess

Warburton

Falatau

Murray

Ford

Slade---Henshaw

North

Nowell

pickarooney · 19-10-2015 11:24pm

Cole and Healy are beaten dockets I reckon. There must be some English props ready to step up. If not what on earth are they doing?

Samson Lee seems the best prospect of the current crop but further changes to scrum laws may change that again.

Launchbury should be making a second row spot his. I'm not sure about Henderson but there aren't many great locks coming through that I can see. Johnny Gray, perhaps.

If Ben Morgan stays fit he could be a very good #8, as long as he can out perform Vunipola, though I find the latter a grimly one-dimensional player. Tipuric may one day be recognised as the most rounded back-rower in the islands. Blindside is a toss-up between a number of very similar players currently filling the ranks.

Webb should be the starting SH by then. Biggar, Ford, Sexton, Slade - you could make a case for them all I suppose, depending on how they go over the next seasons. I have a feeling Sexton migh not have too long of a career left.

North is a similar case and his impact has been lessening of late. Watson, Nowell, Zebo and the like if we want to go play some fancy stuff, otherwise a pair of safety-first wingers. Brown for the moment should be nailed on at 15. McCloskey and Slade at centre, for no good reason other than I like the cuts of their respective jibs

partyguinness · 20-10-2015 10:51am

To answer the OP's question- no- that team could not compete with the AB (at this moment in time at least and wouldn't be too confident about 2017 either).

But I am unable to offer any better combinations so what not- throw them to the lions.

lunarhog · 20-10-2015 11:14am

Ok, here goes my form team from the tournament as it stands

McGrath

Strauss

Nel
Gray

Toner
Lydiate

Denton

SOB
Laidlaw

Biggar
Bennett

Henshaw
Watson

L.Williams
Brown

lunarhog · 20-10-2015 11:21am

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I was trying to pick a team myself but looking at the age profiles of a lot of the forwards it's quite difficult. That said... I have just this minute realised I'm thinking World Cup 4 years wise, not Lions a little under 2 years away.

I shall return!

EDIT:
Right! This is my Lions team, although the forwards are completely open for criticism, Cole is just there because I genuinely couldn't think of anyone else. Same for Ford really, there's a serious age issue among the home nations in certain positions.

Cole
Ford
McGrath
Launchbury
Henderson
Burgess
Warburton
Falatau
Murray
Ford
Slade---Henshaw
North
Nowell

Interesting experimental 14 man lineup there :pac:

partyguinness · 20-10-2015 11:24am

lunarhog wrote: »

Interesting experimental 14 man lineup there :pac:

Going in without a no. 10 is brave...go on you maverick thing you...:D

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 20-10-2015 11:28am

lunarhog wrote: »

Interesting experimental 14 man lineup there :pac:

partyguinness wrote: »

Going in without a no. 10 is brave...go on you maverick thing you...:D

I have a 10, thank you very much! It's a FB I forgot and funnily enough he was the first player I thought of as a definite. Mike Brown at FB, obviously.

bobob · 20-10-2015 2:11pm

McGrath Owens Lee
Awj Henderson
Sob falatau Warburton
Murray biggar
Roberts Davies
North halfpenny
Brown

pickarooney · 20-10-2015 3:00pm

bobob wrote: »

McGrath Owens Lee
Awj Henderson
Sob falatau Warburton
Murray biggar
Roberts Davies
North halfpenny
Brown

Cheers warren

RuMan · 21-10-2015 11:09am

thebaz wrote: »

I love the Lions , but, in this era of professional rugby and the Home Nations failure at this WC , the idea that 4 teams have to combine to beat a SH , may not be best way to develop

Rather our players got the summer off or Ireland played NZ/SA away in 2/3 tests. You only need to look at Argentina to see how playing the top teams regularly improves teams.

Mantis Toboggan · 21-10-2015 11:22am

OldRio wrote: »

IMHO they should scrap the Lions. It's well past it's sell by date. Nothing but a money making racket.

That's true, 4 countries against one? Fairly ridiculous! Inferiority complex straight away!

Northern hemisphere versus southern, now that's something I'd get excited by!

RuMan · 21-10-2015 12:08pm

Dennis Reynolds wrote: »

That's true, 4 countries against one? Fairly ridiculous! Inferiority complex straight away!

Northern hemisphere versus southern, now that's something I'd get excited by!

1 Lions series win in 11 against NZ is appalling. Look at England, went over there and beat them on their own patch and then took the WC the summer after. That's what we need to aim for. Other then in WC years Ireland should be heading over to NZ/SA in the summer not wasting our time with glorified exhibition games.

Barbaric Gentleman · 21-10-2015 12:28pm

Relax lads, it's a novelty tour. Don't take it too seriously.

jacothelad · 21-10-2015 3:51pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I was trying to pick a team myself but looking at the age profiles of a lot of the forwards it's quite difficult. That said... I have just this minute realised I'm thinking World Cup 4 years wise, not Lions a little under 2 years away.

I shall return!

EDIT:
Right! This is my Lions team, although the forwards are completely open for criticism, Cole is just there because I genuinely couldn't think of anyone else. Same for Ford really, there's a serious age issue among the home nations in certain positions.

Cole
Ford
McGrath
Launchbury
Henderson
Burgess
Warburton
Falatau
Murray
Ford
Slade---Henshaw
North
Nowell

Ford is an awful rugby player. Complete waste of a shirt. The hooker of course. Scotland would have been better off if he had been suspended.

irishbucsfan · 21-10-2015 3:57pm

Richardt Strauss could well be our best option if he stays fit. Before his heart issue for Leinster he was exceptional and we're starting to see some of that from him again this year.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 21-10-2015 5:21pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Ford is an awful rugby player. Complete waste of a shirt. The hooker of course. Scotland would have been better off if he had been suspended.

Quite a few of the forwards there were just to fill spots. Interestingly, looking at the squad lists for all 4 home nations there's a major issue with age in certain positions. We all need to start bringing in new blood. Scotland's whole team has an age issue, bar maybe 4 positions.

kidneyfan · 21-10-2015 5:28pm

What does Conor Murray bring to the table?
Why do you think he is a good scrum half?

For people who rate him why?

Pudsy33 · 21-10-2015 5:35pm

kidneyfan wrote: »

What does Conor Murray bring to the table?
Why do you think he is a good scrum half?

For people who rate him why?

Good passer. Great kicker. Always a threat from the base of a ruck. Much quicker than the breakdown than he used to be. Very solid tackler for a SH.

kidneyfan · 21-10-2015 5:37pm

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Good passer. Great kicker. Always a threat from the base of a ruck. Much quicker than the breakdown than he used to be. Very solid tackler for a SH.

I certainly agree that he is very good defensively and he is fast. He doesn't look to me like a natural scrum half.

Pudsy33 · 21-10-2015 5:41pm

kidneyfan wrote: »

I certainly agree that he is very good defensively and he is fast. He doesn't look to me like a natural scrum half.

You don't need to be small to be a scrum half. When he came on the scene his passing wasn't great and he was a bit ponderous. He's much better now though. Young is probably the only lions eligible scrum half I'd have before him.

kidneyfan · 21-10-2015 5:46pm

Pudsy33 wrote: »

You don't need to be small to be a scrum half. When he came on the scene his passing wasn't great and he was a bit ponderous. He's much better now though. Young is probably the only lions eligible scrum half I'd have before him.

Do you really think he's better than Laidlaw?

efb · 21-10-2015 5:48pm

Ford for fly half

Pudsy33 · 21-10-2015 5:50pm

kidneyfan wrote: »

Do you really think he's better than Laidlaw?

I'm actually a big Laidlaw fan. Probably should have included him too. Although I know he gets a bit of derision around these parts for being slow. I'd think Murray is more solid.

kidneyfan · 21-10-2015 5:51pm

Pudsy33 wrote: »

I'm actually a big Laidlaw fan. Probably should have included him too. Although I know he gets a bit of derision around these parts for being slow. I'd think Murray is more solid.

when I say Murray is fast I mean his turn of foot not his crispness at the base of the ruck. though I have heard a few people say that maybe it is the quality of ball that he is getting that is the issue not his speed of passing.
What about a special invite to Tanaka for scrum half - best in northern hemisphere at the moment.

kidneyfan · 21-10-2015 5:52pm

RuMan wrote: »

1 Lions series win in 11 against NZ is appalling. Look at England, went over there and beat them on their own patch and then took the WC the summer after. That's what we need to aim for. Other then in WC years Ireland should be heading over to NZ/SA in the summer not wasting our time with glorified exhibition games.

It's just a pissup and a free holiday for the players. The southern hemisphere countries like it though.

Richard Hillman · 21-10-2015 5:58pm

North, Brown, Watson
Joseph, Henshaw
Sexton, Webb
Armitage, Warburton, O'Brien
Wyne-Jones, Lawes
No outstanding Candidate, Best, McGrath

pickarooney · 21-10-2015 6:00pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

North, Brown, Watson
Joseph, Henshaw
Sexton, Webb
Armitage, Warburton, O'Brien
Wyne-Jones, Lawes
No outstanding Candidate, Best, McGrath

I kind of like the look of that.

titan18 · 21-10-2015 6:46pm

Armitage should be a lock surely. Know he doesn't get picked for England but we all know he's good enough

pickarooney · 21-10-2015 8:08pm

titan18 wrote: »

Armitage should be a lock surely. Know he doesn't get picked for England but we all know he's good enough

He's a bit short for the second row.

Dolamite · 23-10-2015 11:04am

Heres my NZ team for 2017

1. Moody
2. Coles
3. Franks
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Ioane
7. Cane/Savea
8. Read
9. Smith
10. Cruden
11. Savea
12. SBW
13. Fekitoa
14. NMS
15. B. Smith

jacothelad · 23-10-2015 11:11am

titan18 wrote: »

Armitage should be a lock surely. Know he doesn't get picked for England but we all know he's good enough

He's a dwarf in second row terms. As for Lawes, show pony best describes him. Great at the late hits on small guys but is not outstanding in any other regard. There are far better second rows than him.

Pick your Lions team

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