Syria.. The head scratcher

Steve012

Hmmm..
Ok, So the CIA train the Free Syrian Army and others, to oust Assad (blaming him for chemical attacks a few years back which he didn't do apparently) many fighters split off to join ISIS.
USA Have been bombing ISIS over a well over a year now, (yes bombs only do so much), They've kept form (ISIS), so not really hammered by the yanks.

Other Arabian countries helped fund ISIS.
Saudi's USA allies.

Putin stands in, Iran sending crack troops and Russia's sending in Spetsnaz, to defeat rebels fighting Assad's army, Iraq has troops there now too. Monitoring systems set up in Baghdad.

Most of us know a bit about this.
So if Russia is fighting USA backed fighters, to keep eh the "monster" Assad in power, and re build the country.

Ok so that's a slap to the United States, what I can't understand is, Why in the name of Jaysus is the UK trying to get involved? To drop aid? lol or to fight who? Or for who the FSA? against Russia and Iran?

Yes proxies are proxies and there's obviously a hell of a lot more to this one. But ?? Does the UK have a pair of b*llox's the size of a large Buffalo now?
More interesting than your Fav soap to watch is this one!
Are the yanks gonna walk away? hmmmm...

major bill

It's just a real life Royal Rumble!!!

kneemos

End of Syria whatever happens.

Very Bored

Who'd have thought that bigger countries sticking their nose in smaller countries' affairs would create a mess? Our usual reliable friend, history, simply doesn't send us enough warning signs.

the evasion_kid

Well considering the rumour the US have airdropped 50 tons of munitions to "moderate rebels" in the last few days,things should get interesting....

Steve012

major bill wrote: »

It's just a real life Royal Rumble!!!

Quite a dangerous one I would think Major!!

darkpagandeath

Civil war did not work out for them West got blamed after trying to help them.

The Backwards Man

If you think that's a headscratcher, your head will explode if you read about the participants in WWI

asherbassad

The US also spent $500 million on a program to train fighters. It produced 4 soldiers.
The Russians asked Washington to give details about who its (Washington's) fighters were on the ground after Washington complained that the Russians were bombing ALL anti-government forces. Washington didn't reply.

Then the Russians said "OK, where do you want us NOT to bomb?"

Again Washington didn't reply.

That's not a joke. You couldn't make it up.

Meanwhile the Kurds, Hisbollah and the Quds of Iran are cleaving through ISIS like a freight train through a paper hoop after the Russians decimate their positions and Washington is running around like a headless chicken not knowing what to do because the elements of ISIS that Washington and Qatar and KSA are funding are getting blown to atoms and they can't complain because they are funding the very headchoppers that they are always screaming about.

It's comical.

darkpagandeath

asherbassad wrote: »

The US also spent $500 million on a program to train fighters. It produced 4 soldiers.
The Russians asked Washington to give details about who its (Washington's) fighters were on the ground after Washington complained that the Russians were bombing ALL anti-government forces. Washington didn't reply.

Then the Russians said "OK, where do you want us NOT to bomb?"

Again Washington didn't reply.

That's not a joke. You couldn't make it up.

Meanwhile the Kurds, Hisbollah and the Quds of Iran are cleaving through ISIS like a freight train through a paper hoop after the Russians decimate their positions and Washington is running around like a headless chicken not knowing what to do because the elements of ISIS that Washington and Qatar and KSA are funding are getting blown to atoms and they can't complain because they are funding the very headchoppers that they are always screaming about.

It's comical.

Yeah then started sending cruise missiles over heavily trafficked air corridors. One could think they wanted to cause air chaos. Bearing in mind they don't have a great track Record of not hitting passenger jets.

Gatling

It's Putin bailing out assad and boosting iran as major players but what Putin needs most is to destabilisation of the whole middle east including Saudi to force up oil prices to save his own stupid decision in invading and the annexation of Crimea which brought financial sanctions

Gatling

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah then started sending cruise missiles over heavily trafficked air corridors. One could think they wanted to cause air chaos. Bearing in mind they don't have a great track Record of not hitting passenger jets.

Sure Assad's a humanitarian

darkpagandeath

Gatling wrote: »

Sure Assad's a humanitarian

I think they think causing enough problems in Syria will get the sanctions lifted....

Gatling

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I think they think causing enough problems in Syria will get the sanctions lifted....

That's it with his new super alliance Russia, Iran and Hizbolla they will rule the world and the EU will be so scared they'll lift the sanctions

Nodin

Steve012 wrote: »

Hmmm..
Ok, So the CIA train the Free Syrian Army and others, to oust Assad (blaming him for chemical attacks a few years back which he didn't do apparently) many fighters split off to join ISIS.
USA Have been bombing ISIS over a well over a year now, (yes bombs only do so much), They've kept form (ISIS), so not really hammered by the yanks.

Other Arabian countries helped fund ISIS.
Saudi's USA allies.

Putin stands in, Iran sending crack troops and Russia's sending in Spetsnaz, to defeat rebels fighting Assad's army, Iraq has troops there now too. Monitoring systems set up in Baghdad.

Most of us know a bit about this.
So if Russia is fighting USA backed fighters, to keep eh the "monster" Assad in power, and re build the country.

Ok so that's a slap to the United States, what I can't understand is, Why in the name of Jaysus is the UK trying to get involved? To drop aid? lol or to fight who? Or for who the FSA? against Russia and Iran?

Yes proxies are proxies and there's obviously a hell of a lot more to this one. But ?? Does the UK have a pair of b*llox's the size of a large Buffalo now?
More interesting than your Fav soap to watch is this one!
Are the yanks gonna walk away? hmmmm...

Also bear in mind that many who support Assad do so because of the alternative, not out of some great affection. And the fact there is at least 40 different factions/groups on the anti-Assad side, many of whom are hostile to one another and have engaged in fighting amongst themselves. Tis a clusterfuck that only an armchair general using superheroes and alien intervention can solve at the moment.

darkpagandeath

Nodin wrote: »

Also bear in mind that many who support Assad do so because of the alternative, not out of some great affection. And the fact there is at least 40 different factions/groups on the anti-Assad side, many of whom are hostile to one another and have engaged in fighting amongst themselves. Tis a clusterfuck that only an armchair general using superheroes and alien intervention can solve at the moment.

Nodin you do have a way with words sometimes, That gave me a good laugh. I take my hat off to that one.

Massimo Cassagrande

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah then started sending cruise missiles over heavily trafficked air corridors. One could think they wanted to cause air chaos. Bearing in mind they don't have a great track Record of not hitting passenger jets.

Their cruise missiles fly at around 50m off the ground. Planes ought to be grand..

BMJD

Deposing brutal but stable regimes in Iraq and Libya is going so well, we should consider doing the same to Enda and Joan.

Paramite Pie

I honestly think that Russia is more likely to bring stability to the region as much as I hate to say it.

Both the US and Russia have adjectives that have nothing to do with what's best for the Syrian people. But Russia is supporting the Status Quo -- Syria was one of the saner countries in the region, making strides towards secularism before all this began.

I don't know if I really believe that Assad was targeting Christians or other minorities. That narrative has largely been dropped by the Media after the rebels turned out to be doing just that themselves.

darkpagandeath

Paramite Pie wrote: »

I honestly think that Russia is more likely to bring stability to the region as much as I hate to say it.

Both the US and Russia have adjectives that have nothing to do with what's best for the Syrian people. But Russia is supporting the Status Quo -- Syria was one of the saner countries in the region, making strides towards secularism before all this began.

I don't know if I really believe that Assad was targeting Christians or other minorities. That narrative has largely been dropped by the Media after the rebels turned out to be doing just that themselves.

Oh like in Afghanistan the first time around ?

Streetwalker

It won't end well for any of us. All it takes is a stray missile and before you know it we are on the doorstep of World War 3.

Red King

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah then started sending cruise missiles over heavily trafficked air corridors. One could think they wanted to cause air chaos. Bearing in mind they don't have a great track Record of not hitting passenger jets.

Except they didn't do that. And cruise missiles don't operate at the same altitude as passanger airlines. They passed over remote parts of Iran and Iraq and for the record the last Iranian airliner shot to be shot down was hit by an American missile. Nearly 300 innocent people killed.

Gatling wrote: »

It's Putin bailing out assad and boosting iran as major players but what Putin needs most is to destabilisation of the whole middle east including Saudi to force up oil prices to save his own stupid decision in invading and the annexation of Crimea which brought financial sanctions

The Middle East is already destabilised in case you haven't noticed. Even more so since the advent of American foreign policy post 9/11

smurgen

Hilarious how the pro American side will swear blind that russia is bombing anyone but isis yet isis have vowed jihad against russia because it's taking casualties.

FalconGirl

US has essentially destabilised the whole ME in the last decade or so and caused a massive security threat to Europe. What are their intentions one has to wonder. Surely if they could role back the clock they would do it all differently?

mbur

smurgen wrote: »

Hilarious how the pro American side will swear blind that russia is bombing anyone but isis yet isis have vowed jihad against russia because it's taking casualties.

And don't forget the trucks and the money IS have in great abundance

FalconGirl

mbur wrote: »

And don't forget the trucks and the money IS have in great abundance

I'd well believe it.

jamesbere

The whole region is a total mess, I see Iran is flexing it's muscles with videos of ballistic missiles in these underground bases.

Junkyard Tom

smurgen wrote: »

the pro American side.

Pro bombing the fuck out of countries thousands of miles from Washington and get aroused by explosions etc rather than pro-American.

Billy86

FalconGirl wrote: »

US has essentially destabilised the whole ME in the last decade or so and caused a massive security threat to Europe. What are their intentions one has to wonder. Surely if they could role back the clock they would do it all differently?

Fuuuuuuuuck no they wouldn't (at least BushCo who got the whole thing into overdrive) and the reason why they wouldn't is exactly the same as their initial intentions.

BlaasForRafa

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Oh like in Afghanistan the first time around ?

The soviets had very much turned the tide on the mujahideen until the CIA got involved. American intervention didn't really help the longterm outcome of that civil war did it?

As for Syria, Assad may be a monster but a lot of muslim countries only seem to function when they have a strong-man dictator at the helm. When the strong-man is weakened then all hell breaks loose. At least with Assad, he's relatively secular and managed the keep the Shia, Alawites and Sunnis from smashing the crap out of each other for years.

Syria may have been a repressive state but alternative which Al Qaeda/Al-Nusra and Daesh represent is far worse and you can bet that if Assad is gone then the Islamists won't be long in getting rid of any secular rebels.

I'm not so much arguing for Assad/Iran/Russia or whatever, but fearing what an Al-Qaeda or Daesh outcome would be like. Whatever way this goes, it's going to be bloody and unpleasant but it's a matter of which could be worse.

Capt'n Midnight

This

http://i.imgur.com/cVx5zVS.jpg

“Are you confused by what is going on in the Middle East? Let me explain.

We support the Iraqi government in the fight against Islamic State. We don’t like IS, but IS is supported by Saudi Arabia, whom we do like.

We don’t like President Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but not IS, which is also fighting against him.

We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government against IS. So, some of our friends support our enemies and some of our enemies are our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, whom we want to lose, but we don’t want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.

If the people we want to defeat are defeated they might be replaced by people we like even less. And all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists who weren’t actually there until we went in to drive them out. Do you understand now?”

Autonomous Cowherd

I was listening to a good interview by Lewis Lapham yesterday and he makes the point that the War of Civilisations is really not happening..what is happening is a war within Islam between the various factions.
BUT what is also happening is a fight for the last of the planet's oil, and that s how come we have hawkish US policy-makers behind the scenes bombing the life out of the Middle East for the past several decades. US sponsored intervention in the Middle East has cost millions of lives, has increased carnage and brutality, and has reduced nations that were progressing into barely functioning serfdoms that could have easily been assimilated into a brutal caliphate. Way to go, oh war-mongering Empire.
If it was any other country doing what the US has done (backed by its cap-tugging lackeys in Europe) they would be named as global terrorists.
Not that I am saying Russia is any better. No oligarchy is better than the other. In this case however the Russian strategy seems to be more logical...to eliminate mad murdering stone-age fundamentalists.
Of course, its all about which pipeline gets built from ME to Europe.
It's the poor citizens of the Levant I feel sorry for.

Sunnyisland

“Are you confused by what is going on in the Middle East? Let me explain.

We support the Iraqi government in the fight against Islamic State. We don’t like IS, but IS is supported by Saudi Arabia, whom we do like.

We don’t like President Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but not IS, which is also fighting against him.

We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government against IS. So, some of our friends support our enemies and some of our enemies are our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, whom we want to lose, but we don’t want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.

If the people we want to defeat are defeated they might be replaced by people we like even less. And all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists who weren’t actually there until we went in to drive them out. Do you understand now?”


Great :-) capt midnight

Capt'n Midnight

And then there's the Kurds. US like them and they fight ISIS. But none of the local states want to see an independent Kurdistan.

Then there's the whole Sunni vs. Shia thing. It's like Catholic vs. Protestant, complete with all the political, national and tribal baggage.

Israel and Palestine are close by, always good for a laugh.
There's about 100,000 Palestinians in Syria. And another 2.1 million in Jordan. IIRC there's more Palestinians than Jews in the middle east.

Then there's the Christians who are getting it from all sides, including those funded by the Americans. Same is true of the other minority religions but they ain't got no lobbyists


Of course if their oil pipelines were targeted then ISIS could be deprived of most of it's funding. Or if the buyers were targeted.


There is no moral dimension, only a useful irregular verb, as Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister explained “I am a freedom fighter, you are a guerilla, he is a terrorist”.

Paramite Pie

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Oh like in Afghanistan the first time around ?

The Russians were trying to keep the Taliban out of power. The Americans were trying to put the Taliban into power, just to get at the Russians (and the oil that both wanted). Afghanistan was a well developed country in the 50s & 60s. It went to **** when America got involved.

Russia is better for the middle East, they're trying to make safe buffer states surrounding them and former Soviet territories. They have an agenda and are no saints, but they are in a better position to stabalize the region. And if Russia has an ally in the region, then the US wants to cause any mess imaginable to weaken that.

Dyr

Gatling wrote: »

It's Putin bailing out assad and boosting iran as major players but what Putin needs most is to destabilisation of the whole middle east including Saudi to force up oil prices to save his own stupid decision in invading and the annexation of Crimea which brought financial sanctions

As opposed to just allowing the Americans to annex it, which is fine and dandy of course

Call me back when Russia are building bases on americas doorstep

KingBrian2

Syria is the only really secular country in the whole region. Why the west bother to work against that country is just foolish.

Master of the Omniverse

It seems that the cabal want most of us dead,so wwlll would fit nicely into their agenda for one world government to enslave whoever survives.may peace and love win.paedophiles and satanists are in charge,if one believes what they do to children is true,considering how innocent and vulnerable a child is,then what does an adult matter.we could be heading into nuclear Armageddon,and may never find out who made the first strike.Iran nukes Israel ,but of course they didn't,Israel is to be sacrificed for the main agenda,who knows what may or may not happen.I'm so despondent that the truth remains hidden from the non-awakened.Because they are too busy making a meagre crust that the elite chuck our way.this is kaliyuga.and to be expected,the degenerate age,I hope we can pull through.

pkvader

Why are Saudi Arabia funding IS?,

Gatling

Bambi wrote: »

As opposed to just allowing the Americans to annex it,

America annex what exactly

Master of the Omniverse

pkvader wrote: »

Why are Saudi Arabia funding IS?,

f**k knows pk,I'm sure there is a YouTube video on that very subject.pipelines?oil,because they hate Iran?because Putin is a kung fu master?I don't know but I could investigate?

Junkyard Tom

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Syria is the only really secular country in the whole region. Why the west bother to work against that country is just foolish.

Iraq, Syria, and Libya were all largely secular, all destroyed now. Saudi Arabia is a medieval theocratic ****-hole that spreads Whabbi-fascism across the Middle East and it's the West's BFF.

Why?

KingBrian2

pkvader wrote: »

Why are Saudi Arabia funding IS?,

IS and Saudi Arabia believe in the same ideology.

Master of the Omniverse

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Iraq, Syria, and Libya were all largely secular, all destroyed now. Saudi Arabia is a medieval theocratic ****-hole that spreads Whabbi-fascism across the Middle East and it's the West's BFF.

Why?

One thing we can be sure of ,heads are gonna roll

Capt'n Midnight

KingBrian2 wrote: »

IS and Saudi Arabia believe in the same ideology.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend ?

No one in the middle east should need to be told that it's much easier to hand out weapons than get them back. Most countries there , including Israel , have been getting arms/aid from the French, UK , Russians and/or Americans at some stage and bitten the hands that fed them at other times. This also applies to the various governments funding local militia too.

During the Iran-Iraq war there were 36 countries selling arms to both sides.

DarkyHughes

Saudi Arabia, Israel & the US. That's the real axis of evil right there.

BlaasForRafa

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Saudi Arabia, Israel & the US. That's the real axis of evil right there.

Fight the power! :rolleyes:

DarkyHughes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Fight the power! :rolleyes:

Why don't you get up & fight them? :rolleyes:

Dohnjoe

Steve012 wrote: »

Hmmm..
Ok, So the CIA train the Free Syrian Army and others, to oust Assad (blaming him for chemical attacks a few years back which he didn't do apparently) many fighters split off to join ISIS.
USA Have been bombing ISIS over a well over a year now, (yes bombs only do so much), They've kept form (ISIS), so not really hammered by the yanks.

Other Arabian countries helped fund ISIS.
Saudi's USA allies.

Putin stands in, Iran sending crack troops and Russia's sending in Spetsnaz, to defeat rebels fighting Assad's army, Iraq has troops there now too. Monitoring systems set up in Baghdad.

Most of us know a bit about this.
So if Russia is fighting USA backed fighters, to keep eh the "monster" Assad in power, and re build the country.

Ok so that's a slap to the United States, what I can't understand is, Why in the name of Jaysus is the UK trying to get involved? To drop aid? lol or to fight who? Or for who the FSA? against Russia and Iran?

Yes proxies are proxies and there's obviously a hell of a lot more to this one. But ?? Does the UK have a pair of b*llox's the size of a large Buffalo now?
More interesting than your Fav soap to watch is this one!
Are the yanks gonna walk away? hmmmm...

It's very complicated

I would recommend the wiki on the Syrian civil war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War

Otherwise as a TLDR

Sparked by Arab spring, Syrians protest against nearly 40 yr rule of Assad and his father, Assad hits back hard, situation turns violent. His army splits into those loyal to him and rebels (the FSA)

Regional countries start supporting the FSA, and wealthier arab financiers start funding many foreign fighters to join the scene, which set up their own groups. Due to the fact that Assad is Allawite and the majority of his country is Sunni - it's seen as a sectarian conflict, which draws in all the religious crazies

Those fundamentalists eventually start merging to form a supergroup - ISIS. This new group, whilst fighting Assad, took advantage of the chaos to establish a large Islamic caliphate severely threatening Iraq (they all but defeated the Iraqi army and were at the gates of Baghdad)

So leaving out the more complex geopolitical reasons and undefined proxy conflict..

Why are so many international countries involved? the brutal success of ISIS in general and against Iraq, which had to essentially be saved

Why is the UK involved? the above

Why is Russia there? to support Assad, who represents their last toehold in the region

Why were certain Arab countries supporting ISIS? well not directly, but they weren't exactly stopping arab financiers from doing so before the group became so massive and autonomous

All countries are now against ISIS, the main difference is that Russia, Lebanon and Iran support Assad and most other countries don't

asherbassad

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah then started sending cruise missiles over heavily trafficked air corridors. One could think they wanted to cause air chaos. Bearing in mind they don't have a great track Record of not hitting passenger jets.

So you've tried to blag about your ballistics expertise regarding BUK missile systems and MiGs and all manner of other stuff in your posts about MH17 and now you claim that a cruise missile flying at 50 metres above the ground is a threat to an airliner flying 10,000 metres above the ground.

:pac:

asherbassad

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Syria is the only really secular country in the whole region. Why the west bother to work against that country is just foolish.

Iraq was actually the most secular Arab state in the region until the dumbfcuks in Washington and their village idiot of a "leader", Dubya, went and turned it into hell on earth for the craic.

"He tried to kill ma daddy!"