Dublin Marathon Elite Field 2015

Notwork Error

Any got any info on the elite field for this year's race? Hardworker? Seems a bit late and I haven't seen anything anywhere. These are the only ones I can think of and they aren't fact by any means.

Eliud Too
Bazman
Gary O Hanlon

Hard Worker

Notwork Error wrote: »

Any got any info on the elite field for this year's race? Hardworker? Seems a bit late and I haven't seen anything anywhere. These are the only ones I can think of and they aren't fact by any means.

Eliud Too
Bazman
Gary O Hanlon

Last years mens and womens winners will defend their titles, Eliud Too and Esther Macharia.
For the Irish Championship it is likely to be among Sean Hehir, Barry Minnock and Eoin Callaghan and then in the womens, Michelle McGee, Pauline Curley and Sarah Mulligan.
Full elite list will be out in a couple of days.
My money is on a 19 year old to win this year ( similar to Feyisa Lilesa a few years ago ).

28064212

National marathon list is out: http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/hehirs-quick-turnaround-for-dublin-as-national-marathon-entries-are-in

Notwork Error

Elite field announced for anyone who hasn't seen it.

http://sseairtricitydublinmarathon.ie/elite-athlete-list-2014/

Chivito550

Good field in the men's (for DCM), not great in the women's, but still better than last year. Our guys will get fairly well beaten, but I'd rather see them down the field getting dragged along, than have the fake hype of an Irish winner in a really weak field.

Funny looking at those Kenyans, if there were Irish people running those sort of times they'd be household names, but in a Kenyan context they are complete nobodies, D-listers. Quite scary the depth of talent they have.

Looking forward to it now, should be a great day.

vanderlyle

Apart from no.s 1 & 101 (last years winners), is there an order to how the numbers are allocated?

Love the bit about Alemu Gemechu "he jogged in to finish in 2.12.19", sounds so casual.

Krusty_Clown

While not one of the international elite runners, it'll be interesting to see how former race walker Colin Griffin gets on. Looks like he's hoping for a sub 2:40, but I'd imagine that he'd be well capable of running a good bit faster, given his training history and pedigree.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

While not one of the international elite runners, it'll be interesting to see how former race walker Colin Griffin gets on. Looks like he's hoping for a sub 2:40, but I'd imagine that he'd be well capable of running a good bit faster, given his training history and pedigree.

73:52 in the Rock and Roll

happygoose

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

While not one of the international elite runners, it'll be interesting to see how former race walker Colin Griffin gets on. Looks like he's hoping for a sub 2:40, but I'd imagine that he'd be well capable of running a good bit faster, given his training history and pedigree.

I agree, even without 'running' so much I'd have him thereabouts with the Irish DCM 'elites' in terms of marathon times, fully fit. Himself and the rest of Ireland's top recent race walkers of the past while have been performing at a far higher level in international competition that our marathoners, aside from Pollock's performance in Moscow perhaps. Most of DCM's 'elites' this year wouldn't qualify for major championships.

Talked with him on a course a while back, he seems to be very far from bursting a nut, 7kgs heavier this year than he was previously when running his HM pb shortly after retiring. I don't know why I have it in my head that he ran a low 2:20's marathon in around then, perhaps it was just another discussion on what he might run.

youngrun

happygoose wrote: »

I agree, even without 'running' so much I'd have him thereabouts with the Irish DCM 'elites' in terms of marathon times, fully fit. Himself and the rest of Ireland's top recent race walkers of the past while have been performing at a far higher level in international competition that our marathoners, aside from Pollock's performance in Moscow perhaps. Most of DCM's 'elites' this year wouldn't qualify for major championships.

Talked with him on a course a while back, he seems to be very far from bursting a nut, 7kgs heavier this year than he was previously when running his HM pb shortly after retiring. I don't know why I have it in my head that he ran a low 2:20's marathon in around then, perhaps it was just another discussion on what he might run.

Definitely capable of that ..
Hehir and mulligan for the irish titles ??

tang1

youngrun wrote: »

Definitely capable of that ..
Hehir and mulligan for the irish titles ??

Fancy Eoin O Callaghan for the men's, he's fresher than Hehir who ran a hard race in Berlin last month. Barry Minnock jogged his way to victory in Galway a few weeks back, be interesting to see what he has in the legs.

happygoose

Hehir - Minnock - O'Hanlon is my guess at the 1,2,3.

ultrapercy

happygoose wrote: »

Hehir - Minnock - O'Hanlon is my guess at the 1,2,3.

Fredy for mens title I'd say with a right mash up for the other 2 medals between 5 or 6 closely matched lads.

happygoose

Is Freddy eligible?

Surely there's some stipulation within Athletics Ireland, similar to that that exists for elites transferring from country to country, a habitual residence condition, that says you're eligible for National competition?

What's to stop a Club flying in 4 Kenyans to run the National Inter Clubs? Obviously it's cost prohibitive, but going by the likes of the Armagh 5k, there's huge strength in depth in the UK. What's to stop a Club spending €1,000 flying them in and paying them to run?

TFBubendorfer

happygoose wrote: »

Is Freddy eligible?

Surely there's some stipulation within Athletics Ireland, similar to that that exists for elites transferring from country to country, a habitual residence condition, that says you're eligible for National competition?

That's wrong.

You're eligible to run in the Irish championship if you are a member of an Irish club. You can even be eligible to run a championship in two (or more, I suppose) different countries at the same time - I know because I am. There is definitely no "habitual residence condition", e.g that would have ruled out all the Irish athletes living in America at the time and certainly never happened.

ultrapercy

happygoose wrote: »

Is Freddy eligible?

Surely there's some stipulation within Athletics Ireland, similar to that that exists for elites transferring from country to country, a habitual residence condition, that says you're eligible for National competition?

What's to stop a Club flying in 4 Kenyans to run the National Inter Clubs? Obviously it's cost prohibitive, but going by the likes of the Armagh 5k, there's huge strength in depth in the UK. What's to stop a Club spending €1,000 flying them in and paying them to run?

You just need to be a member of an AAI club. Lots of Irish runners have membership of a UK club to gain entry to London Marathon. It is a bit loose and it is tough on someone to be kept out of the medals like that but it's the rules. Freddy is in Ireland quite a bit and runs a lot of races so I'd imagine he would be eligible even if there were rules regarding residency etc.

Chivito550

happygoose wrote: »

Is Freddy eligible?

Surely there's some stipulation within Athletics Ireland, similar to that that exists for elites transferring from country to country, a habitual residence condition, that says you're eligible for National competition?

What's to stop a Club flying in 4 Kenyans to run the National Inter Clubs? Obviously it's cost prohibitive, but going by the likes of the Armagh 5k, there's huge strength in depth in the UK. What's to stop a Club spending €1,000 flying them in and paying them to run?

A mate of mine from Melbourne who came over for 7 days as part of backpacking Europe wasn't allowed to enter the national decathlon as a guest, so he joined a club and was allowed to compete. He came 4th. Can't see why it would be any different in the marathon, as it's just another national championship, no better or worse than national decathlon, in theory.

Of course, if that kind of thing happened in the marathon I'd anticipate more of an uproar, and frenzy among the Athletics community. On the other hand nobody cares about the decathlon.

happygoose

Same thing I agree, yes, but, IMO, not in the best interest of the sport. Just seems wrong to me. Is there any rule to say they have to be habitually resident to compete for Ireland if with an Irish Club I wonder.

More visible in the marathon but now you mention it I remember Frddy running the steeple in National League in Tullamore, same day you were doing the Decathlon.

Chivito550

happygoose wrote: »

Same thing I agree, yes, but, IMO, not in the best interest of the sport. Just seems wrong to me. Is there any rule to say they have to be habitually resident to compete for Ireland if with an Irish Club I wonder.

More visible in the marathon but now you mention it I remember Frddy running the steeple in National League in Tullamore, same day you were doing the Decathlon.

Yeh I'd agree. I hate seeing the plastic Irish (those who are only competing for us because they can't make the U.S. or Australian teams for major championships let's be honest) come over and win national titles ahead of those who compete in Ireland all year. Those with an affiliation to the place, and who spend enough time here, I don't mind at all.

In the case of my mate, the AAI wouldn't let him as a guest. That was his first choice so he wouldn't possibly be denying anyone medals. Yet they stupidly didn't allow guests. So he was completely right to join a club for the sole purpose of competing. Turning away those who want to do a decathlon in this country is craziness. We aren't exactly thriving in that area. Anyway, that's for another discussion.

I don't really know much about Freddy. He seems to be fairly involved in Irish athletics, in which case I wouldn't be bothered at all if he won a medal. What's his connection to Ireland? Did he live here for awhile?

Sacksian

Would someone like Alistair Cragg have been closer to Chivito's mate than Freddy Sittuk in terms of habitual residency? Was he ever living here for a period of any length?

RayCun

happygoose wrote: »

What's to stop a Club flying in 4 Kenyans to run the National Inter Clubs? Obviously it's cost prohibitive, but going by the likes of the Armagh 5k, there's huge strength in depth in the UK. What's to stop a Club spending €1,000 flying them in and paying them to run?

nothing, as far as I know. Why would you bother?

I presume clubs pay to fly the likes of Tori Pena and Kevin Batt in for national championships?

Myles Splitz

Sacksian wrote: »

Would someone like Alistair Cragg have been closer to Chivito's mate than Freddy Sittuk in terms of habitual residency? Was he ever living here for a period of any length?

While he was never a resident he did have citizenship due to ancestry. Funny enough Josaph Boit also ran National Championships and won for Clonliffe a few years back and was no issue IIRC. Should also be noted that Freddy won a National medal last year so couldn't see any issue

RayCun wrote: »

nothing, as far as I know. Why would you bother?

I presume clubs pay to fly the likes of Tori Pena and Kevin Batt in for national championships?

Kevin Batt was living in Ireland for alot of the summer (surprised you missed him as most of his runs were in your local park )

happygoose

RayCun wrote: »

nothing, as far as I know. Why would you bother?

I presume clubs pay to fly the likes of Tori Pena and Kevin Batt in for national championships?

Winning a championship is prestigious.

RayCun

happygoose wrote: »

Winning a championship is prestigious.

winning a championship with some runners you hunted up from Kenya who have nothing to do with your club is not so prestigious

happygoose

Look that's exactly what I'm getting at here - a rule should be there whereby Ezikial McKenya shouldn't be able to fly in here to win an Irish Championship on a 90 day holiday visa. The AAI are missing a trick by allowing it. Whether or not it's allowed I think it stinks a bit to have someone like Hehir Minnock O'Hanlon or Callaghan lose out on a medal because of it.

You should have to be habitually resident for two years, be a national or qualify through ancestry, something along those lines, to be able to run for an Irish Club or run for Ireland.

RayCun

But if Brothers Pearse hunted up Ezikial McKenya, flew him in, paid him money, signed him up as a member and he went on to win the marathon - what would we gain?
If we started bragging about the national medal our club just won people would laugh in our faces. (and whoever lost as a result, Rathfarnham or Clonliffe or Raheny, would be pissed off at us for ages) So why do it?

ultrapercy

RayCun wrote: »

But if Brothers Pearse hunted up Ezikial McKenya, flew him in, paid him money, signed him up as a member and he went on to win the marathon - what would we gain?
If we started bragging about the national medal our club just won people would laugh in our faces. (and whoever lost as a result, Rathfarnham or Clonliffe or Raheny, would be pissed off at us for ages) So why do it?

The very thing you has been done and it wasn't a Dublin club who did it. The rules probably should be tightened but they are slack at international level so it's hard to expect national associations to be strict.

happygoose

ultrapercy wrote: »

The very thing you has been done and it wasn't a Dublin club who did it. The rules probably should be tightened but they are slack at international level so it's hard to expect national associations to be strict.

Forgot completely about last year, and he's back again, there's your Irish National marathon champion 2015 right there.

28064212

happygoose wrote: »

Forgot completely about last year, and he's back again, there's your Irish National marathon champion 2015 right there.

Too? You know he didn't win the national marathon championship last year, right?

happygoose

I do, I assume he wasn't entered by his Club, the issue isn't specific to Too, or specific to last years marathon, or this years marathon. If entered by his Club this year he could win it, it's up to his Club, but the rules as they stand create that possibility, across all national championships.

A hollow victory, one that IMO, would, as Raycun says, create more heat and potential embarrassment for the Club than is worthwhile. Some Clubs seem to have a different view though.

28064212

happygoose wrote: »

If entered by his Club this year

He hasn't been

happygoose wrote: »

Some Clubs seem to have a different view though.

Which ones? Freddy Sittuk, AFAIK, would qualify through the residency rule you suggested. In fact, this article suggests he might even be trying to get an Irish passport in the future. Are there other examples?

happygoose

Look man, read what I'm saying and quit your a la carte quoting, whether he entered by the Club or not he's eligible, there's nothing stopping them as the (lack of) rules stand, or indeed him entering himself if you can just rock up to an AAI desk at the expo.

I think that's wrong, a purely subjective view, I'm not suggesting I'm right, it's just my opinion. It's a discussion that's pertinent to cash races that double up as National Championships in particular, marathon, half and 10k.

With regard to Freddy, there is no citizenship or residency requirement for winning a national championship, that's what I'm getting at. There should be one. If I'm told there is I stand corrected, but as I understand it at the minute Freddy, Eliud, whoever, there's nothing there that treats a guy who came here two years differently that a guy who came here two days, once they're attached to a Club. That should change IMO.

More power to Freddy and his quest to run for Ireland. Could be two Raheny men in Rio.

Chivito550

happygoose wrote: »

Look that's exactly what I'm getting at here - a rule should be there whereby Ezikial McKenya shouldn't be able to fly in here to win an Irish Championship on a 90 day holiday visa. The AAI are missing a trick by allowing it. Whether or not it's allowed I think it stinks a bit to have someone like Hehir Minnock O'Hanlon or Callaghan lose out on a medal because of it.

You should have to be habitually resident for two years, be a national or qualify through ancestry, something along those lines, to be able to run for an Irish Club or run for Ireland.

Nah that would disqualify people who have just moved over here, and are working here, people who might be here studying for a year, people who are on one year working holiday visas etc. I was entitled to compete in state championships, and nationals (if I was good enough to qualify for nationals which I certainly was not) when I was in Australia. I was actively involved in my club and was as entitled as anyone. The idea of having to wait 2 years is ridiculous.

Imagine telling somebody from New Zealand who is over for a year, who wants to join a club, that you aren't allowed. Madness!

The more burning question is why would clubs be pathetic enough to buy in a couple of people to win them a few medals, or why would these people with no affiliation with Ireland go to such lengths to win a national title?

28064212

happygoose wrote: »

Look man, read what I'm saying and quit your a la carte quoting, whether he entered by the Club or not he's eligible, there's nothing stopping them as the (lack of) rules stand, or indeed him entering himself if you can just rock up to an AAI desk at the expo.

You (seem to be) saying that this is an active problem that needs to be addressed. First you said Eliud did it last year, then that he would be the national champion this year, and then that there are clubs that "have a different view". Who are these clubs? Have you any examples of any clubs that have taken advantage of this loophole?

happygoose

Two years was just a figure I picked from the air, that's not my point , my point is there should be a rule, and none seems to currently exist.

Do you think its ok that Too could win tomorrow, if he was entered?

happygoose

28064212 wrote: »

You (seem to be) saying that this is an active problem that needs to be addressed. First you said Eliud did it last year, then that he would be the national champion this year, and then that there are clubs that "have a different view". Who are these clubs? Have you any examples of any clubs that have taken advantage of this loophole?

I think it's a loophole that needs to be addressed yes, but as of yet I haven't seen anyone on a podium that has been flown in by the DCM/BHAA or others before.

Maybe it's a lot of bother to go to and an agreement exists between the marathon organisers and AAI that we're unaware of.

Chivito550

happygoose wrote: »

Two years was just a figure I picked from the air, that's not my point , my point is there should be a rule, and none seems to currently exist.

Do you think its ok that Too could win tomorrow, if he was entered?

I think an easy way around it would be that anybody who is on a temporary work or student visa is entitled. Residency is silly. Not allowing somebody to join a club until after a stated period of time is not very welcoming. I made most of my friends in Australia through athletics. I joined a club immediately for that very reason. Imagine being told "sorry we need you to be here 6 months until we can accept you into the club". Bonkers!!

No it's not good that people can fly in for a few days a win a national title. I also find it very hard to buy into the non-Irish guys representing Ireland as I can't get past the fact they are only competing for us because it's easier path to an Olympics.

But let's be honest AAI aren't exactly going to be checking up people's visa statuses!

Dubgal72

happygoose wrote: »

Two years was just a figure I picked from the air, that's not my point , my point is there should be a rule, and none seems to currently exist.

Do you think its ok that Too could win tomorrow, if he was entered?

I'm not sure that we need a rule and regulation for every possible outcome. It is up to clubs to enter athletes for whatever national championship. In such a case, it is up to clubs to self-regulate and exercise some of the integrity and honesty Irish athletic clubs are renowned for. Naive much? Maybe, but....

wall.e

I understand what you are saying about your qualification standards needing revision, but to clarify things about Eliud... We asked Le Cheile to use their facilities last year since we are based in Celbridge. They were very welcoming and Eliud offered to wear their singlet last year as a sign of gratitude. When he returned this year, we asked to use their track and they were again very welcoming. Eliud decided to wear the Le Cheile singlet again to thank them as well as O'Neills even when offered a more profitable deal to represent a non-club. No one at Le Cheile has ever mentioned signing him with the club whether or not to be eligible for the national title. To be clear, Eliud is not a member of any Irish club. I doubt Eliud would want to compete for Ireland or a national title as his dreams are to represent Kenya. Even if he were to be eligible under a club, myself and Neil would not allow him to accept the Irish title.

robinph

For London Marathon international runners can be entered as part of the club team, but are not eligible as individuals for other categories. That is the same if we were to run international runners in the likes of the National Cross Country as well.

Dodge

There we go then

https://twitter.com/irishathletics/status/658603635128016897

https://twitter.com/irishathletics/status/658604823227559936

Sacksian

Dodge wrote: »

There we go then

https://twitter.com/irishathletics/status/658603635128016897

https://twitter.com/irishathletics/status/658604823227559936

I'm sure there are AI rules regarding residency, but is it specific to the marathon, rather than track and field? Or is it a case that you don't need habitual residency to win a national title if you're a citizen? i.e. Was Cragg habitually resident when he won the 1500 in 2004 or later national track titles?

And I presume Freddy knew he wasn't eligible before the race.

Pherekydes

Sacksian wrote: »

I'm sure there are AI rules regarding residency, but is it specific to the marathon, rather than track and field? Or is it a case that you don't need habitual residency to win a national title if you're a citizen? i.e. Was Cragg habitually resident when he won the 1500 in 2004 or later national track titles?

And I presume Freddy knew he wasn't eligible before the race.

You can qualify for medals either through residency or citizenship.

Dodge

Not an expert but you probably have be either a citizen or a resident to be eligible to become national champion. Cragg had the citizenship

Plenty of Irish used to compete in the UK championship but the results were always excluded from the UK championship result

Sacksian

Pherekydes wrote: »

You can qualify for medals either through residency or citizenship.

Dodge wrote: »

Not an expert but you probably have be either a citizen or a resident to be eligible to become national champion. Cragg had the citizenship

Plenty of Irish used to compete in the UK championship but the results were always excluded from the UK championship result

Fair enough, that makes sense!

Krusty_Clown

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

While not one of the international elite runners, it'll be interesting to see how former race walker Colin Griffin gets on. Looks like he's hoping for a sub 2:40, but I'd imagine that he'd be well capable of running a good bit faster, given his training history and pedigree.

2:33:16 in rough conditions. You'd imagine he'd have dipped under 2:30 in better conditions.

youngrun

Awkward situation judging by this report at finish ? Anyone a link to the eligibility rules ? http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/dublin-marathon-se%C3%A1n-hehir-takes-national-title-to-banish-berlin-blues-1.2406526
Either way v good runs by both

Bugsy2000

Anyone else notice one of the elite women with her male pacer yesterday?

Spotted them first at theChapelizod gate. He was noticeable as he was well back from the other elite Africans & it was clear they were running together. At the top ofNutley Lane he actually turned around to her and ushered her on to keep with him. Checked their numbers today & they have identical splits & they're joined at the hip in any photos.

A bit dodgy seeing as she was challenging for a podium spot.

His time yesterday was 2 mins slower than last year so it's not unreasonable to say he ran his normal race but it was still blatant pacing yesterday.

dna_leri

Bugsy2000 wrote: »

Anyone else notice one of the elite women with her male pacer yesterday?

Spotted them first at theChapelizod gate. He was noticeable as he was well back from the other elite Africans & it was clear they were running together. At the top ofNutley Lane he actually turned around to her and ushered her on to keep with him. Checked their numbers today & they have identical splits & they're joined at the hip in any photos.

A bit dodgy seeing as she was challenging for a podium spot.

His time yesterday was 2 mins slower than last year so it's not unreasonable to say he ran his normal race but it was still blatant pacing yesterday.

Is pacing illegal ?

28064212

Bugsy2000 wrote: »

A bit dodgy seeing as she was challenging for a podium spot.

Why "dodgy"? I'm not aware of any rule that women can't be paced by men. The only effect it would have would be if she set a world-record, in which case it would only be recognised as a "Mixed-Gender" record, as opposed to an outright one

Chivito550

28064212 wrote: »

Why "dodgy"? I'm not aware of any rule that women can't be paced by men. The only effect it would have would be if she set a world-record, in which case it would only be recognised as a "Mixed-Gender" record, as opposed to an outright one

Not even that. Paula Radcliffe's 2:15:25 is the full outright WR despite having male pacemaker.